Radiology Externships

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pinkpuppy9

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Does anyone have suggestions on where to do a radiology externship? We may be allowed to meet our radiology requirement off campus now that we have absolutely no one on campus capable of teaching us imaging (that isn't a tech). The Blue Pearl near my parents has a radiologist I believe, but I'd like to know if anyone has had a really good experience somewhere!

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I think allygator or someone asked this recently. I think she was specifically searching for a more advanced elective, but if you search around you might find a list of places that accept externs.
 
Does anyone have suggestions on where to do a radiology externship? We may be allowed to meet our radiology requirement off campus now that we have absolutely no one on campus capable of teaching us imaging (that isn't a tech). The Blue Pearl near my parents has a radiologist I believe, but I'd like to know if anyone has had a really good experience somewhere!
If you are looking to learn and do a lot on rotation, I'd recommend seeing if NCSU will let you take it. Fair warning, it was a hard, miserable couple of weeks and everyone really struggled to pass the rotation (they do honors, pass, marginal, and fail there) and it sucked, but I got a lot of experiencing evaluating and setting up images that I would not have gotten otherwise. my radiology training going into the rotation was rather poor and I almost failed, but I learned a lot (but again fair warning, I cried a lot too). the institution i'm at now does not seem to do much teaching during their rotation and the students call it radiation vacation and are basically minions who set up for rads all day long.

i'd probably recommend trying to find an academic place to do a rotation at rather than a private practice because PP is unlikely to have much set up for teaching. From experience, my radiology rotations at PPs got me very little and mostly were just hang out and shoot the breeze while holding for ultrasound. the radiologists at my internship did not allow interns to spend weeks with them. As you ask around, you might find out how they plan to set up the days, will someone review many cases with you side by side, will they push you to evaluate rads in front of them and then go over findings, what are their goals and abilities to be slowed down for a couple of weeks. i've known radiologists who were expected to read ALL of the radiographs in house that day, do all of the CT/MRI studies, and take care of all of the ultrasounds for the hospital +/- some outpatient cases. You wont learn anything from that, there won't be any time. Most of getting better at reading rads is just doing it over, and over, and over again, and having someone behind you to correct you/go through it all.
 
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If you are looking to learn and do a lot on rotation, I'd recommend seeing if NCSU will let you take it. Fair warning, it was a hard, miserable couple of weeks and everyone really struggled to pass the rotation (they do honors, pass, marginal, and fail there) and it sucked, but I got a lot of experiencing evaluating and setting up images that I would not have gotten otherwise. my radiology training going into the rotation was rather poor and I almost failed, but I learned a lot (but again fair warning, I cried a lot too). the institution i'm at now does not seem to do much teaching during their rotation and the students call it radiation vacation and are basically minions who set up for rads all day long.

i'd probably recommend trying to find an academic place to do a rotation at rather than a private practice because PP is unlikely to have much set up for teaching. From experience, my radiology rotations at PPs got me very little and mostly were just hang out and shoot the breeze while holding for ultrasound. the radiologists at my internship did not allow interns to spend weeks with them. As you ask around, you might find out how they plan to set up the days, will someone review many cases with you side by side, will they push you to evaluate rads in front of them and then go over findings, what are their goals and abilities to be slowed down for a couple of weeks. i've known radiologists who were expected to read ALL of the radiographs in house that day, do all of the CT/MRI studies, and take care of all of the ultrasounds for the hospital +/- some outpatient cases. You wont learn anything from that, there won't be any time. Most of getting better at reading rads is just doing it over, and over, and over again, and having someone behind you to correct you/go through it all.
I'm hesitant to take it if I'm going to end up failing or at least really risking that..we have next to no imaging education here and what we did have before our radiologist left was pretty poor imo. I don't have a good foundation, and our normal imaging rotation is a waste of students' time as well (especially given that our rads are read off site now/a locum comes in occasionally).

For the BP, it sounds like I'd be on their internal med service, which handles imaging. I'm not too hot on that since this would be my dedicated time to learning radiology and I don't want to short change myself, even if it's where I hope to do a rotating internship (part of the reason I want to spent time there).
 
If you are looking to learn and do a lot on rotation, I'd recommend seeing if NCSU will let you take it. Fair warning, it was a hard, miserable couple of weeks and everyone really struggled to pass the rotation (they do honors, pass, marginal, and fail there) and it sucked, but I got a lot of experiencing evaluating and setting up images that I would not have gotten otherwise. my radiology training going into the rotation was rather poor and I almost failed, but I learned a lot (but again fair warning, I cried a lot too). the institution i'm at now does not seem to do much teaching during their rotation and the students call it radiation vacation and are basically minions who set up for rads all day long.

i'd probably recommend trying to find an academic place to do a rotation at rather than a private practice because PP is unlikely to have much set up for teaching. From experience, my radiology rotations at PPs got me very little and mostly were just hang out and shoot the breeze while holding for ultrasound. the radiologists at my internship did not allow interns to spend weeks with them. As you ask around, you might find out how they plan to set up the days, will someone review many cases with you side by side, will they push you to evaluate rads in front of them and then go over findings, what are their goals and abilities to be slowed down for a couple of weeks. i've known radiologists who were expected to read ALL of the radiographs in house that day, do all of the CT/MRI studies, and take care of all of the ultrasounds for the hospital +/- some outpatient cases. You wont learn anything from that, there won't be any time. Most of getting better at reading rads is just doing it over, and over, and over again, and having someone behind you to correct you/go through it all.
I'm just about to start my clinical year at NCSU *gasp* next week. I'm currently on an externship out of state but did want to chime in here on our radiology service. I did have the benefit of didactic training in imaging throughout NCSU's pre-clinical curriculum. We have an outstanding service. I had two full semester classes in radiology, and the faculty are quite dedicated to student learning. Radiology is not a strong suit of mine, but faculty were certainly willing to invest the time with me individually to get me up to speed. From personal experience, I can say that the imaging faculty know that this is an area that students struggle with, and are mindful of the fact that it takes significant practice reading images before a clinician gains confidence in their skills. Can't remember when my radiology block is (you can read it in my signature line below-everything after the match deadline is a blur to me), but you're welcome to join me on the struggle bus. I'll mention that there is a diagnostic imaging exam that students are required to pass in order to complete the rotation. Something like 200 images. NCSU alums can chime in with the detail. I don't doubt that it's tough, but I did want to put a plug in for our imaging faculty. For the most part, they're great.
 
Does anyone have suggestions on where to do a radiology externship? We may be allowed to meet our radiology requirement off campus now that we have absolutely no one on campus capable of teaching us imaging (that isn't a tech). The Blue Pearl near my parents has a radiologist I believe, but I'd like to know if anyone has had a really good experience somewhere!

That blows, PP.

I have no idea if they offer it or not, but it would at least be worth giving Antech and Idexx and PetRays or the other telemedicine places a call to see if they do externships.

Pro: You'd see a LOT of real-life studies (some good studies, some not-so-good....) for real cases interpreted by boarded radiologists. You wouldn't just see the weird cases that the attending couldn't interpret; it's becoming much more common in some facilities (like mine) to send out all radiographs for intepretation. (The only ones I don't send out nowadays are placement rads - I even send out obvious FBs and whatnot so the radiologist can catch any other subtle pathology I missed.) You might get some ultrasound/CT/MRI studies, but probably not many.

Pro: You might not have to travel far since they often/usually work out of their homes.

Con: No practical "how to take a radiograph" training.

Otherwise, I agree with the others than an externship at an academic teaching hospital would be 'best' to cover all the bases. UMN's rotation was ok, but nothing special, but I don't know that they do one-off 'externships' (they host full-year island students, but that's different). UMN's ultrasound rotation, on the other hand, was amazing. I am forever grateful for that.
 
That blows, PP.

I have no idea if they offer it or not, but it would at least be worth giving Antech and Idexx and PetRays or the other telemedicine places a call to see if they do externships.

Pro: You'd see a LOT of real-life studies (some good studies, some not-so-good....) for real cases interpreted by boarded radiologists. You wouldn't just see the weird cases that the attending couldn't interpret; it's becoming much more common in some facilities (like mine) to send out all radiographs for intepretation. (The only ones I don't send out nowadays are placement rads - I even send out obvious FBs and whatnot so the radiologist can catch any other subtle pathology I missed.) You might get some ultrasound/CT/MRI studies, but probably not many.

Pro: You might not have to travel far since they often/usually work out of their homes.

Con: No practical "how to take a radiograph" training.

Otherwise, I agree with the others than an externship at an academic teaching hospital would be 'best' to cover all the bases. UMN's rotation was ok, but nothing special, but I don't know that they do one-off 'externships' (they host full-year island students, but that's different). UMN's ultrasound rotation, on the other hand, was amazing. I am forever grateful for that.
Heh, it's worse for the current 3rd and 4th years who aren't being allowed to go off campus for imaging and are getting really inconsistent/nonexistant distance lectures from a radiologist working out of his home.

Good call on the telemedicine, I didn't think about that. I mean there has to be something decent out there because we aren't the only school without a radiologist on staff. I'm just hoping I won't end up having to travel great distances to get it. I'll see what my IS has and keep looking.
 
Yes! PM me! The place I did radiology at was AMAZING. Four boarded radiologists that love to teach, and the coolest cases. I watched every MRI and CT, even scrubbed in on surgery in downtime because they knew I wanted to be a surgeon. I got to work with some really interesting animals that I feel like I wouldn't have been able to interact with in other places. I got to read all of their rads with them, and ultrasound every animal (except for critical ones, obviously) if I helped prep it for the radiologist. One of my favourite rotations of fourth year, for sure.
 
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Does anyone have suggestions on where to do a radiology externship? We may be allowed to meet our radiology requirement off campus now that we have absolutely no one on campus capable of teaching us imaging (that isn't a tech). The Blue Pearl near my parents has a radiologist I believe, but I'd like to know if anyone has had a really good experience somewhere!
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Look up the academic medical centers in your city. Call up the Radiology programs and ask them if they accept externs.
Alternatively you can ask individual Radiologists if they will let you follow them in their private practices. Most Radiologists are simply not set up to have externs with them.
You could also do an externship at a Teleradiology practice/center. Teleradiology is a major method by which Radiology care is delivered across the country.
Almost all of these experiences will involve paying tuition. But the Radiologist will be able to spend more time with you and actually teach you the basics of Radiology interpretation.
 
Any reason that RadiologyExternship account was banned? Seemed like they might have some good info but I can't see what they've posted in the past, says "Error" when I click into it.

Anyways, reading this thread makes me regret my PP choice for a radiology externship now rather than choosing an academic institution...oops
 
Any reason that RadiologyExternship account was banned? Seemed like they might have some good info but I can't see what they've posted in the past, says "Error" when I click into it.

Anyways, reading this thread makes me regret my PP choice for a radiology externship now rather than choosing an academic institution...oops

I suspect they were posting from an MD perspective for starters. Based on the account name, I'd also suspect they were advertising for a particular organization. Just a wild guess, though.

Anyway, don't worry about your choice. Just make the most of it. It might be a ton better than many/most academic institutions - you never know. How much you apply yourself during the externship will matter at LEAST as much as how well set-up they are to teach.

My personal recc: Focus on being able to interpret well the timely and critical things - respiratory and vomiting patients. Know how to recognize effusions and gas in inappropriate spots. Know how to recognize an obstruction (esophageal as well as lower GI!). Know how to recognize cardiogenic pulmonary edema and how it can be different in a cat than dog. Know how to recognize noncardiogenic pulmonary edema. Know the difference between bronchial and alveolar patterns and what that tells you.

Things like that - those are patients that need particular/specific treatment in a very time-sensitive manner where how you proceed can make or break the case.

Soft tissue injuries, masses, orthopedic stuff ... meh. Usually (but not always) that stuff isn't time critical, meaning you can wait for a radiology read, get a second opinion from a coworker, etc. Even if you botch it in the short-term, usually the long-term outcome isn't impacted in those cases.

I recently saw an example in FB of a case where a referring DVM may have missed (it's a little unclear whether they missed it or just didn't bother to stabilize the patient) a very textbook GDV ... you just can't miss that sort of thing (and you definitely shouldn't send it back out the door without at least giving it pain meds and tubing/tapping the stomach).

So know the big things, and leave the little subtle things to radiologists until you're more of an expert.
 
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I'd bet Angell in Boston would let you extern on the radiology service if you were willing to travel. Very high volume, also in theory a teaching hospital.
 
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