Quoted: Losing religion in training

[Doodledog]

Hi, I wonder if anyone has experienced losing their faith in residency (or before or after), and can describe what that was like or what experiences prompted it.

Alternatively, I wonder if anyone has come to a new or stronger spirituality through training or patient care. All thoughts welcome.

In general, CC is not really intended for this type of question/discussion. However, I can see that one might not wish to have the discussion on a public forum of SDN and so I'll post it and see what happens. This should not be the routine question for CC though.

Certainly some physicians may find that their view of religion is altered by their medical experiences. I think one common thing is to have a different view of life and death than we may have from our religious training. Specifically, we may find that "death" as we think of it as an absolute event which occurs at one exact moment is not so straight-forward. Similarly a dichotomous view of gender is flawed and this can affect how we perceive our religious ideas.

On the whole however, I expect that most physicians carry with them the religious training and belief set with which they were raised and these survive medical training fairly well.

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[Shinken]

Certainly some physicians may find that their view of religion is altered by their medical experiences.

Interesting question from the OP. I've had this conversation with several people during and after training.

Medical training definitely strengthened my faith.

 

[Apollyon]

Interesting question from the OP. I've had this conversation with several people during and after training.

Medical training definitely strengthened my faith.

Whereas I became MUCH less religious in my training, but that decrease began in med school. Pre-clinical, quite Catholic. Clinically and thereafter, nearly nil; the two times I've been in a religious service since 2000 were my nephew being christened, and my father's funeral. My wife and I were wed by my best friend, who has an Internet ordination (but it's kosher, notwithstanding the pun), and I, personally, don't feel a void.

So, in other words, a whole spectrum (and I disagree that, "on the whole...these survive medical training fairly well" is so easily extrapolatable) and, as such, I think the best conclusion is "maybe, but it is EXACTLY a personal decision".

 

[mestielest]

Residency(urology) was also very destructive for me. Despite being a practicaly muslim in high school and medical school; I left most of religion practices during residency. At first I have supposed my feelings were due to lack of time and very intense working program but while I self-questioned myself about my religious ideas I have found that I was losing my belief to the "humankind" and religion. I have witnessed that the most of people who are religous views and beliefs are prone to every kind of immorality while their personal benefits-interests required. Therefore I still had my belief to the God and religion but I was sure that people are "good" or "bad" not related to their religion or how religious they are. So religion doesnt makes you a better person-its just a label on you. Also I have to admit that my personal experiences with people has showed me that "religious" people(for my country "muslim" people) are more selfish, disrespectful and immoral than others. On the other hand, surgery and the wonderful structure of the human body always led me to a "supreme being" idea. So I have lost most of my practices but anyway I'm still keeping my belief.

and sorry for bad english

 

[deleted126335]

Interesting question from the OP. I've had this conversation with several people during and after training.

Medical training definitely strengthened my faith.

It destroyed mine. I am an avowed atheist.

 

[giorgosdkm]

I have not yet begun medical training, but what I can say is that there's got to be a dividing line where you separate the truly religious from the not-so-truly-religious.

You can be religious and almost never attend a service of worship. You can go to church every week and still you aren't really religious. There are atheists who criticize the religious for being superstitious. (And indeed many are.) And there are atheists who are just as superstitious as the people they are criticizing. (Though their superstitions are different.)

For me there are two religions in this world. The first one, you can find in Apollyon's signature. "Be good. Do good." The second religion consists of everything else.

And can you honestly desire to practice medicine if you don't follow, or at least want to follow, the first one?

First, do no harm, right?

(The above is too simplified [how do we understand "good"?] but I'm not writing a philosophical paper here.)

 

[kraskadva]

"The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates

A a disclaimer, I am also a premed, so I don't know what experiences have led you to question your faith, but as someone who 'lost their faith' in the course of education, I thought I'd offer a point of view.

I have a philosophy UG degree, and had begun to question the religious system I was raised with before I started that. Mainly due to intolerance and deliberate ignorance/self-delusion/pigheadedness I had seen in my religion. Going through all the philosophy, the quote above struck 18 year old me pretty hard and I started systematically going through the moral precepts I had been taught, comparing them to my experiences and what I really deep down believed to be true. What I came away with was a few core principles that boil down to the basic ethical principles you find in *every* religion. Like be nice to people, don't murder, etc.
At this point I'm pretty down on organized religion in general, because I don't see many redeeming qualities in codified intolerence over millenia. I'm skeptical about the existence of God, but willing to wait and see, while still being open to the possibility. I completely despise any kind of bigotry, and have very little patience for those who preach it.
But... I feel comfortable with the conclusions I've come to and the tenets I've held onto. Do I still long for the structure and community of a faith group? Sometimes, but you can find that in other places. Do I wish I knew the answers? Sure. Me, you and everybody else (except the intolerant bigots who are sure they do know it all).
All this to say, if you feel like your faith has betrayed you, it's not the end of the world. It may be painful, it may take a long time to sort through your (former) beliefs, but if you really look at what you believe and decide what still holds true for you, it may make you a better, stronger person in the long run.

Best wishes and good luck.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Great thread. I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses, they make me think.

I was a trained Christian minister before medical school. (Guess I still am). I helped pastor a "mega-church" at one time. So I have long had a Christian perspective. I then entered a medical specialty that is known for being somewhat pro-atheist, anti-religion in general (at least in the past it was).

I found that I became very jaded and disillusioned for a few years, but in the by now I have become both more tolerant of others beliefs and situations and strengthened in my own faith. Which I think, for me, is the ideal outcome. It has cost me something. But I have begun to learn to cling to what matters, which is loving myself and others through words and actions to the very best of my ability, which for me = serving God.
Peace

 

[freaker]

Everyone is going to be different. If anything, my faith and love for the church has only grown in residency and fellowship. I've seen God working through so many people, but you can lose sight of it easily enough in the trenches when you're getting hammered, you're sleep deprived, and when you have far more to do than you could ever get done. Then you see those working beside you and sometimes wonder why...

It's at that moments when I get up, make myself go to church, and the triviality of the day-to-day minutia and the artificial pressures we put on ourselves melt away. Religion is very big picture. I kind of scratch my head at those who don't go for organized religion because I find it so fulfilling. I'm not a Catholic but will occasionally attend mass because I find the liturgy meditative, spiritual and the closest I come to Christ on a day-to-day basis aside from may 3-days into a backpacking trek.

I'll say as well that the most genuine people I've come across have been the families in our church small group. They keep my wife and I grounded in so many ways. It's our moment of sanity, but we have to force it into the schedule and tell others "no," at times, which is hard to do in residency.

 

[Perry Mason]

Residency pushed me out of the atheist closet.

 

[Gauss44]

OP: This probably depends on what your religious beliefs are, and if your training is in line with them.

Just a quick comment on a comment:

Similarly a dichotomous view of gender is flawed and this can affect how we perceive our religious ideas.

Absolutely. People should be taught about that much earlier on than in medical school or residency, in my opinion. It would do a lot of good for those who are not entirely one gender or another (which is a lot of people).