Pts requesting Anesthesiologist

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Groove

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Friendly ER doc here scheduled for upcoming elective tonsillectomy. I planned on requesting MD instead of CRNA. Do you guys get pissed off in what you prob consider to be routine and easy cases by pts requesting an Anesthesiologist? Time you could have spent making more money through supervision? I'm just curious. I don't know whether the doc will be annoyed or flattered. I don't really care at the end of the day because I'm still going to request it but I was just curious.

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Friendly ER doc here scheduled for upcoming elective tonsillectomy. I planned on requesting MD instead of CRNA. Do you guys get pissed off in what you prob consider to be routine and easy cases by pts requesting an Anesthesiologist? Time you could have spent making more money through supervision? I'm just curious. I don't know whether the doc will be annoyed or flattered. I don't really care at the end of the day because I'm still going to request it but I was just curious.

I am guessing for many of us that medically direct/supervise CRNA's that your request wouldn't work out because of the practice arrangement and/or contractual obligations or staffing issues.

I would imagine that most of us appreciate the gesture though.
 
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I would be totally cool with it because I do my own cases and don't work with nurses.
But this all depends on the facility you are in. Some places are 99% ACT model and simply don't have enough docs to do solo cases. So I would make sure its possible first in whichever hospital you are having your surgery.
Sure, some people who hate sitting in on cases and prefer supervising will be annoyed, but I doubt they will pipe up. And honestly, after supervising for so long, some people get really complacent and rusty that you may be better off with a good CRNA instead.
 
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Some places are 99% ACT model and simply don't have enough docs to do solo cases. So I would make sure its possible first in whichever hospital you are having your surgery.

Many places are 100% supervision model. Personally I'd ask your surgeon if they are aware of MDs providing solo anesthesia care in the hospital/surgery center you will be going to. After that you'd could always contact the anesthesia department. If it was us we couldn't honor the request but would be flattered and would still provide excellent care to you.
 
Doesn't hurt to ask. Most places can find a way to make it work. Ask early though, may require a little shuffling.

I enjoy doing cases, and being requested makes it so I get a full day of doing cases. I always make time to do another physicians case as well, even if I would otherwise be home.


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Friendly ER doc here scheduled for upcoming elective tonsillectomy. I planned on requesting MD instead of CRNA. Do you guys get pissed off in what you prob consider to be routine and easy cases by pts requesting an Anesthesiologist? Time you could have spent making more money through supervision? I'm just curious. I don't know whether the doc will be annoyed or flattered. I don't really care at the end of the day because I'm still going to request it but I was just curious.

Not at all because I request MD/DO anesthesia for my or my loved ones' surgeries.
Ask early, I do my own cases now but at my old job we always honored that request if it was made in advance
 
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And honestly, after supervising for so long, some people get really complacent and rusty that you may be better off with a good CRNA instead.

^^I think this is important to recognize. If a place has MDs supervise CRNAs for years, then suddenly the MD has to do a case, they might not be as familiar with the machines and where equipment is and workflow. They may not know how to do a machine check or adjust the vent settings themselves or know where the blades or LMAs or certain meds are. Most places have a routine and work flow, and when you interrupt it, you introduce possibility for unexpected error. You may be better off requesting the anesthesiologist guarantee a CRNA they like and trust.

It's like requesting surgery from the chief of surgery. He or she may have the highest title but may not have picked up a scalpel in months.
 
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If there's a place where the 'ologists can't do a case themselves smoothly/safely, then that's a place I don't wanna have surgery. Yeesh!
 
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If there's a place where the 'ologists can't do a case themselves smoothly/safely, then that's a place I don't wanna have surgery. Yeesh!

That's the problem with finishing a residency then going to straight "medical direction/supervision" vs doing some or all of your own cases: You never get to polish and hone those skills which takes a few years of actually doing the anesthetic from start to finish. Although I do primarily supervision these days the 10,000 or so anesthetics which I performed on a solo basis in the first half of my career made me a better Anesthesiologist.

I'd still rather sit my own case then supervise 4 rooms.

To the OP: If the facility where you are going doesn't offer the option of an Anesthesiologist doing your case (15-20 minute case) then I recommend you ask for a good CRNA who routinely does the ENT room.
 
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I needed to do a machine check the other day and I admit I was a bit rusty, I have since daily checked all drawers, reviewed machine checkout, confirmed where all supplies are. I have developed my own daily system to review this, it is important.

Having said that, if you are in a private anesthesia group, especially in ACT, it is only to your advantage to honor these goodwill requests.

This board talks all the time about MD vs CRNA and the benefits of MD, but then threads like this pop up and appear slightly hypocritical. Stand up for you, and patient. In addition, your GROUP should be standing up for you to do a request, all members should be proud that someone in their group garnered enough respect and reputation to be requested as a solo provider. After all we all know we are somewhat behind the scenes.

This earns respect amongst the hospital, surgeons and the CRNAs. Optics are everything and I can think of no better optics than to accommodate this request. If you feel rusty about something and get requested, shake the rust off and figure it out, you're a physician.


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Friendly ER doc here scheduled for upcoming elective tonsillectomy. I planned on requesting MD instead of CRNA. Do you guys get pissed off in what you prob consider to be routine and easy cases by pts requesting an Anesthesiologist? Time you could have spent making more money through supervision? I'm just curious. I don't know whether the doc will be annoyed or flattered. I don't really care at the end of the day because I'm still going to request it but I was just curious.

I never let CRNAs sit cases for me or my family. I've seen too much.
 
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But this all depends on the facility you are in. Some places are 99% ACT model and simply don't have enough docs to do solo cases. So I would make sure its possible first in whichever hospital you are having your surgery.
Sure, some people who hate sitting in on cases and prefer supervising will be annoyed, but I doubt they will pipe up. And honestly, after supervising for so long, some people get really complacent and rusty that you may be better off with a good CRNA instead.
This is because of one of two reasons. Either the site is such a **** hole that they can't recruit docs or the docs are so f'in greedy that they don't care any longer. Either way, the idea of not having a doc to cover an elective case when requested ahead of time is beyond ridiculous.
We all blame the old guys for ruining our profession with their greed and insisting of nurses to do their jobs. This is no different.
 
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Our practice is care team and our staffing is "lean." The only way to get an MD to personally do your case is to schedule it on his post call day or vacation day. We usually assign the top CRNAs to VIP or requests.
 
A patient can request whatever they want. Requests can and are denied.
Absolutely. I was still a resident when an educated patient, with OSA, requested an anesthesiologist a few days prior to his endoscopy. He was told ACT or nothing.
 
This earns respect amongst the hospital, surgeons and the CRNAs. Optics are everything and I can think of no better optics than to accommodate this request. If you feel rusty about something and get requested, shake the rust off and figure it out, you're a physician.
If you are rusty about something, doing a case suddenly, under intense scrutiny, is actually the best way to lose respect. There is no way you will become good at it overnight; you first need to refamiliarize yourself by doing various parts of it while medically directing. That's why anesthesiologists should work at least 30% solo, not to lose skills.
 
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If you are rusty about something, doing a case suddenly, under intense scrutiny, is actually the best way to lose respect. There is no way you will become good at it overnight; you first need to refamiliarize yourself by doing various parts of it while medically directing. That's why anesthesiologists should work at least 30% solo, not to lose skills.

That is an ideal which is harder and harder to achieve.
 
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This is because of one of two reasons. Either the site is such a **** hole that they can't recruit docs or the docs are so f'in greedy that they don't care any longer.

No offense, but that's just 100% BS. We couldn't honor it because it would mean shortchanging other patients. We don't have spare docs sitting around doing nothing that can waltz in and do a case whenever someone asks. We work. And since we believe we provide optimal care to every single patient with our ACT model, honoring that sort of request isn't anything except PR. But we'd let you pick whatever doc and CRNA or AA you wanted for your case.
 
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^^I think this is important to recognize. If a place has MDs supervise CRNAs for years, then suddenly the MD has to do a case, they might not be as familiar with the machines and where equipment is and workflow. They may not know how to do a machine check or adjust the vent settings themselves or know where the blades or LMAs or certain meds are. Most places have a routine and work flow, and when you interrupt it, you introduce possibility for unexpected error. You may be better off requesting the anesthesiologist guarantee a CRNA they like and trust.

It's like requesting surgery from the chief of surgery. He or she may have the highest title but may not have picked up a scalpel in months.

While that could theoretically be true, I supervise 100% of cases and still occasionally perform machine checks, adjust vent settings, pull drugs out of the pyxis, etc. I do it all. Just not on every patient and not every time. It isn't that complicated.
 
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If you are rusty about something, doing a case suddenly, under intense scrutiny, is actually the best way to lose respect. There is no way you will become good at it overnight; you first need to refamiliarize yourself by doing various parts of it while medically directing. That's why anesthesiologists should work at least 30% solo, not to lose skills.

I absolutely agree about the need to practice, however even in 100% ACT, there are lots of ways to practice "the monkey skills." These are still your cases and I'll often talk to the CRNA beforehand (to maintain good will) and do an entire induction or a wake up/emergence. Come in a little early and set up a machine for one of your rooms, stock once in a while so you become familiar with the storage room. Be humble - ask your partners for help, ask the CRNAs if you don't know where something is. You don't need to do solo cases regularly to stay sharp, but you need to take some effort daily (literally 5-10 min) to relearn and maintain sharpness on these skills, I consider it CME.

If we want to "take back" our specialty, especially in ACT, this is where the rubber meets the road IMHO and I don't think saying, "well I'd be dangerous" or "scrutiny is too much" or "we run lean" (just out of curiosity, if you're so lean, what happens if someone gets hurt or injured? Apply that same solution to illness or injury to a case request). My point is, there are solutions to all of these excuses and we need to step up our game. If you're so rusty that you can't figure these things out in a few days, you might need to look for a different career.

These statements should instead be motivation to maintain and practice your skills. Of all the things that are "bringing down" our specialty in the end we are doing it to ourselves and statements like the above are more scary to me for the specialty than any CRNA comment on twitter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious to any reader of this thread from any other medical specialty.
 
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I absolutely agree about the need to practice, however even in 100% ACT, there are lots of ways to practice "the monkey skills." These are still your cases and I'll often talk to the CRNA beforehand (to maintain good will) and do an entire induction or a wake up/emergence. Come in a little early and set up a machine for one of your rooms, stock once in a while so you become familiar with the storage room. Be humble - ask your partners for help, ask the CRNAs if you don't know where something is. You don't need to do solo cases regularly to stay sharp, but you need to take some effort daily (literally 5-10 min) to relearn and maintain sharpness on these skills, I consider it CME.

If we want to "take back" our specialty, especially in ACT, this is where the rubber meets the road IMHO and I don't think saying, "well I'd be dangerous" or "scrutiny is too much" or "we run lean" (just out of curiosity, if you're so lean, what happens if someone gets hurt or injured? Apply that same solution to illness or injury to a case request). My point is, there are solutions to all of these excuses and we need to step up our game. If you're so rusty that you can't figure these things out in a few days, you might need to look for a different career.

These statements should instead be motivation to maintain and practice your skills. Of all the things that are "bringing down" our specialty in the end we are doing it to ourselves and statements like the above are more scary to me for the specialty than any CRNA comment on twitter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious to any reader of this thread from any other medical specialty.

Yep. Can't believe what I'm reading on this thread. If you can't work the machines or know where to find the essentials to get through a case safely, if a CRNA is better than you, a doctor, at your job, you are lazy and complacent. There is no excuse for that.
For what it's worth, I've never worked with an anesthesiologist who fell into this category. I think most recognize they need to actually stay on top of the skills they worked so hard to acquire.
 
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Are we really discussing an anesthesiologist "earning respect" by doing an elective tonsillectomy? :eek:

Jesus Christ I hope I never leave my MD only practice....
 
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Are we really discussing an anesthesiologist "earning respect" by doing an elective tonsillectomy? :eek:

Jesus Christ I hope I never leave my MD only practice....

No, we are talking about honoring requests for MD only care despite being perhaps an ACT practice.


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If you 100% supervise then you are losing skills.

which skills? I'd say if you do your own cases, you have inferior skills at essentially every invasive procedure since you do fewer of them. I'm curious which skill you get better at by doing your own cases, which are necessarily fewer in number.
 
What a joke some are. People making excuses they can't do machine checks, can't guarantee an anesthesiologist for elective case (physician patient or not), running lean.

That greed outshines your spouting off about oral surgeons and dentists.

You all won't even send me a CRNA let alone a physician to my very nice surgical office for the fees my patients can afford. About $200 a case. Pay for drugs, IV, pacu RN, criticare monitors (with magical etco2), rescue crash cart, etc and you get to keep what's left over. If you want to run anesthesia, you can run it lean, ACT, no machine checks.

It's even more sad for pediatric dentist. Often well under $100 to take that risk.
 
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I absolutely agree about the need to practice, however even in 100% ACT, there are lots of ways to practice "the monkey skills." These are still your cases and I'll often talk to the CRNA beforehand (to maintain good will) and do an entire induction or a wake up/emergence. Come in a little early and set up a machine for one of your rooms, stock once in a while so you become familiar with the storage room. Be humble - ask your partners for help, ask the CRNAs if you don't know where something is. You don't need to do solo cases regularly to stay sharp, but you need to take some effort daily (literally 5-10 min) to relearn and maintain sharpness on these skills, I consider it CME.

If we want to "take back" our specialty, especially in ACT, this is where the rubber meets the road IMHO and I don't think saying, "well I'd be dangerous" or "scrutiny is too much" or "we run lean" (just out of curiosity, if you're so lean, what happens if someone gets hurt or injured? Apply that same solution to illness or injury to a case request). My point is, there are solutions to all of these excuses and we need to step up our game. If you're so rusty that you can't figure these things out in a few days, you might need to look for a different career.

These statements should instead be motivation to maintain and practice your skills. Of all the things that are "bringing down" our specialty in the end we are doing it to ourselves and statements like the above are more scary to me for the specialty than any CRNA comment on twitter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious to any reader of this thread from any other medical specialty.

Anesthetist here (AA). Your post sounds great in theory, but I have never, ever had an attending offer to do a machine checkout or stock my room. I had an attending the other day ask me how to fill out the narc sheet at pharmacy cause he'd never done it. None of this takes away from their abilities as an attending, but yea it would be nice if they did these other things once in a while.
 
What a joke some are. People making excuses they can't do machine checks, can't guarantee an anesthesiologist for elective case (physician patient or not), running lean.

That greed outshines your spouting off about oral surgeons and dentists.

You all won't even send me a CRNA let alone a physician to my very nice surgical office for the fees my patients can afford. About $200 a case. Pay for drugs, IV, pacu RN, criticare monitors (with magical etco2), rescue crash cart, etc and you get to keep what's left over. If you want to run anesthesia, you can run it lean, ACT, no machine checks.

It's even more sad for pediatric dentist. Often well under $100 to take that risk.

You can't find a locums to work for $200 a case? Are you only doing one case at a time or something?
 
You all won't even send me a CRNA let alone a physician to my very nice surgical office for the fees my patients can afford. About $200 a case. Pay for drugs, IV, pacu RN, criticare monitors (with magical etco2), rescue crash cart, etc and you get to keep what's left over. If you want to run anesthesia, you can run it lean, ACT, no machine checks.

How many cases per day? How many per days per month? You don't provide enough information to know if this is a lucrative opportunity, charity work, or somewhere in the middle.


I agree that every group, given sufficient lead time, should accommodate a request for physician-only anesthesia. The PR gain and professional courtesy is more than worth any hassle.
 
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I absolutely agree about the need to practice, however even in 100% ACT, there are lots of ways to practice "the monkey skills." These are still your cases and I'll often talk to the CRNA beforehand (to maintain good will) and do an entire induction or a wake up/emergence. Come in a little early and set up a machine for one of your rooms, stock once in a while so you become familiar with the storage room. Be humble - ask your partners for help, ask the CRNAs if you don't know where something is. You don't need to do solo cases regularly to stay sharp, but you need to take some effort daily (literally 5-10 min) to relearn and maintain sharpness on these skills, I consider it CME.

If we want to "take back" our specialty, especially in ACT, this is where the rubber meets the road IMHO and I don't think saying, "well I'd be dangerous" or "scrutiny is too much" or "we run lean" (just out of curiosity, if you're so lean, what happens if someone gets hurt or injured? Apply that same solution to illness or injury to a case request). My point is, there are solutions to all of these excuses and we need to step up our game. If you're so rusty that you can't figure these things out in a few days, you might need to look for a different career.

These statements should instead be motivation to maintain and practice your skills. Of all the things that are "bringing down" our specialty in the end we are doing it to ourselves and statements like the above are more scary to me for the specialty than any CRNA comment on twitter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious to any reader of this thread from any other medical specialty.
You're preaching to the choir.
 
It's a tonsillectomy. They aren't asking you to sit in a room for the entire length of a whipple or something!

Your staff probably take longer lunch breaks
Depends on the ACT model. Especially in 1:3 coverage, if you sit the case, somebody else has to take your other 2 rooms, meaning 1:4 coverage for them. Far from ideal.

Plus it creates a precedent for the practice. What if more patients wanted solo docs? Those "solo" patients would cost the practice more, so some groups say no to all on principle.
 
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Just went through this for one of my kids. The anesthesiologists didn't want to ruffle CRNA feathers (either that or couldn't do it on their own). If you've reached the point that you can't practice your own specialty without a midlevel for technical or business reasons but the midlevel can practice without you...you've replaced yourselves.
 
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which skills? I'd say if you do your own cases, you have inferior skills at essentially every invasive procedure since you do fewer of them. I'm curious which skill you get better at by doing your own cases, which are necessarily fewer in number.
All the skills involved in actually physically doing cases yourself from start to finish. And I guess you can argue what you're arguing but it doesn't change the fact that your argument sucks. Trust me, there are PLENTY of procedures to go around when you work solo lol. And you make it sound like these are incredibly technically difficult procedures we're doing when they're nothing close. There's a lot more to the job than being a procedure monkey. If you actually need someone to explain all of this to you, that may be the problem.
 
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It's a tonsillectomy. They aren't asking you to sit in a room for the entire length of a whipple or something!

Your staff probably take longer lunch breaks

we don't take any lunch breaks. If we have a doc go into a room, then somebody else has to take their other rooms and increase their work load beyond what we'd otherwise safely do. I mean you could ask for someone to come in on their week of vacation, but good luck with that.
 
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All the skills involved in actually physically doing cases yourself from start to finish. And I guess you can argue what you're arguing but it doesn't change the fact that your argument sucks. Trust me, there are PLENTY of procedures to go around when you work solo lol. And you make it sound like these are incredibly technically difficult procedures we're doing when they're nothing close. There's a lot more to the job than being a procedure monkey. If you actually need someone to explain all of this to you, that may be the problem.

But which skills? I start IVs, manage airways, administer drugs, place lines, etc. What exact skill is their that you get better at? Turning the vaporizer knob? I admit I only do that periodically. And yes, there is more to the job than being a procedure monkey. Most of what we do is preoperatively assess the patient and their conditions and come up with a safe anesthetic plan. In an ACT model you do that way more than somebody doing their own cases. Taping endotracheal tubes, taping eyes, turning the vaporizer, checking twitches, dumping urine, etc. don't count as skills in my book. Diagnosing a new heart murmur, doing a thoracic epidural, starting a difficult IV, placing a central line, etc are far more important skills.
 
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You all won't even send me a CRNA let alone a physician to my very nice surgical office for the fees my patients can afford. About $200 a case. Pay for drugs, IV, pacu RN, criticare monitors (with magical etco2), rescue crash cart, etc and you get to keep what's left over. If you want to run anesthesia, you can run it lean, ACT, no machine checks.
.


How long do these cases take? And are you saying $200 is the total fee for the anesthetic including drugs, monitors, and PACU nurse recovery? Or is $200 excluding all that?
 
What a joke some are. People making excuses they can't do machine checks, can't guarantee an anesthesiologist for elective case (physician patient or not), running lean.

That greed outshines your spouting off about oral surgeons and dentists.

You all won't even send me a CRNA let alone a physician to my very nice surgical office for the fees my patients can afford. About $200 a case. Pay for drugs, IV, pacu RN, criticare monitors (with magical etco2), rescue crash cart, etc and you get to keep what's left over. If you want to run anesthesia, you can run it lean, ACT, no machine checks.

It's even more sad for pediatric dentist. Often well under $100 to take that risk.

That sounds awful. That leaves like 20$ for the anesthesiologist. 200$ for a case? That's it? A stick of prop is 20$.
 
Plus it creates a precedent for the practice. What if more patients wanted solo docs? Those "solo" patients would cost the practice more, so some groups say no to all on principle.

You cross that bridge when you get there. Maybe you'd need to restructure your contract with the hospital. Sit down with Jeff Johnson CEO and say, look we are so good and so much better than the CRNAs you have hired that patients continuously request our services. We'd like to be able to continue doing this because word is spreading and it's bringing in more surgical business because hospital XYZ down the road doesn't do this. how can we continue to make this work?

Obviously an idealized solution but it's in response to an idealized and only theoretical problem.





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That sounds awful. That leaves like 20$ for the anesthesiologist. 200$ for a case? That's it? A stick of prop is 20$.
It all depends on volume and frequency. There's fixed overhead (equipment like monitors, crash cart, ? an anesthesia machine) that would be a dealkiller if he's doing this once per month, but may be negligible if this is an everyday work site. There's other overhead like an 8-hour-minimum PACU RN that would be a dealkiller if he's doing a couple cases per day, but acceptable if he's doing 15.

If he's doing 5 cases, one day per week, of course nobody's going to sign up for it.

If he's doing 10 cases per day, that's $2000 and after overhead take-home (not counting durable equipment costs) might be $1500. And I've got to say, $1500 of 1099 income in return for a full day at a dental office wouldn't get me to sign up.

20 quick cases, done in 8 hours? Now there are some possibilities.
 
All the skills involved in actually physically doing cases yourself from start to finish. And I guess you can argue what you're arguing but it doesn't change the fact that your argument sucks. Trust me, there are PLENTY of procedures to go around when you work solo lol. And you make it sound like these are incredibly technically difficult procedures we're doing when they're nothing close. There's a lot more to the job than being a procedure monkey. If you actually need someone to explain all of this to you, that may be the problem.

The best of both worlds is being solo 1/3 of the time and the ACT model 2/3 (although I would choose the exact opposite ratio if possible). This keeps your skills as a practitioner of the "art of anesthesia" at a high level while allowing you to perform a large number of procedures 2/3 of the time. The bigger cases and the request cases could be "solo MD" while routine cases and after-hours are all ACT.

These days the biggest issue (only issue??) is the money. That means the 4:1 or even 5:1 model is the norm because the AMC wants to run lean. Private groups want to maximize profits as well so they have done away with the "being solo 1/3 of the time." I firmly believe that isn't a good thing for the specialty no matter how many lines or blocks you place.

Enjoy the MD only model while it lasts; and, it may or may not last depending on the healthcare paradigm the next Democratic President and Congress pass in 2021.
 
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As a person who supervises most of the time and usually does my own cases maybe one day a week, I will confirm that your "flow" definitely gets rusty when you haven't done your own cases in a while. If I have a room full of pedi ENT, it takes me a case or two to get into the zone. For me, it's usually the minutiae of electronic charting that gets lost in the shuffle. I have residency classmates who do 100% supervision who would definitely not feel comfortable if thrown into a room alone, and I'm only 7 years out of training. I am in the camp that recognizes the value of sitting your own cases and showing the surgeons/circulators/etc that we are better than the CRNAs at this and get the job done when the rubber hits the road. Very important. I was personally thrilled to get 3 days of solo anesthesia in this week (ortho, GYN, and a day of cardiac). I also think it keeps your options much more open, as you can consider MD only jobs with no hesitation. While I realize that outside factors may influence or preclude this, I think it behooves all ACT groups to try to get their docs into a room periodically (or regularly). It's good for the patients, the docs, the specialty, and the soul.
 
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Years ago the chief of anesthesia at our local Kaiser insisted that every anesthesiologist sit there own cases once a week. They do their own cases even more nowadays. It is strictly a matter of money and will.
 
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we don't take any lunch breaks. If we have a doc go into a room, then somebody else has to take their other rooms and increase their work load beyond what we'd otherwise safely do. I mean you could ask for someone to come in on their week of vacation, but good luck with that.

If you're that lean maybe you should hire one more doc. Seriously how much would that dilute your income? If your practice has 20 doctors it's less than 5%.
 
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If you're that lean maybe you should hire one more doc. Seriously how much would that dilute your income? If your practice has 20 doctors it's less than 5%.
You'd be shocked how cheap people are. ;)
 
I don't really care at the end of the day because I'm still going to request it but I was just curious.

Been doing this for more than 20 years and can say without hesitation that, on balance, VIP's get the worst care.
 
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