MCAT Price Comparisons

[BerkReviewTeach]

One advantage to an event like Test Prep Week is that you can find all of the prices of the products at once. I always assumed new EK books were cheaper than new BR books. I assumed this based on the prices I'd see in the used books for sale forum. Used EK full sets with 1001 books sell for around $100 while BR book sets in similar condition almost always go for over $200 (never below $175).

Needless to say, I was surprised to read in the EK section the prices they want for their new books. So here is a side-by-side comparison of their prices to BR prices. I'm not sure how they handle sales tax, which is why there is a "?" next to each price.

Biology Books
EK Bio + EK Bio 1001 Questions: $85.94 (plus sales tax?)
BR Bio I + BR Bio II: $60.00 (tax included)

Physics Books
EK Physics + EK Physics 1001 Questions: $71.94 (plus sales tax?)
BR Physics I + BR Physics II: $60.00 (tax included)

Organic Chemistry Books
EK O Chem + EK O Chem 1001 Questions: $59.94 (plus sales tax?)
BR O Chem I + BR O Chem II: $60.00 (tax included)

General Chemistry Books
EK G Chem + EK G Chem 1001 Questions: $66.94 (plus sales tax?)
BR G Chem I + BR G Chem II: $60.00 (tax included)

Verbal Books
EK Verbal/Math + EK Verbal 101 Passages: $59.94 (plus sales tax?)
BR Verbal + BR Writing: $75.00 (tax included)

This blows my mind to be completely honest. Going by what members have said over the last three and a half years (since I've been here), BR physics and general chemistry are far superior to EK books, you get more questions and passages with BR books, and they are cheaper than EK books. On the other end, EK verbal is touted as superior to BR verbal, they each give about the same amount of passages and questions, and EK is cheaper. That's just weird and backwards.

For organic chemistry, it's often a choice of student learning style in terms of the text preference, but BR passages are so great that BR books are considered the superior product. And once again, with sales tax considered, the better product is cheaper (albeit barely).

For biology, it's a toss up by most accounts. BR bio has far more passages, but the differences in writing style are night and day, so the vote is split based on student preference. Still, it's surprising how much of a price difference there is.

And this comparison of book prices is the least shocking of the prices I've seen. The difference in the prices of various review courses is astounding. I'm amazed at what some of our competitors are charging for their courses. I had no idea we have the lowest priced live course, despite giving the greatest amount of classroom hours (it's barely more than Princeton Review where we're located.)

And then there are the online courses. No matter how much you dress up a program where everything is on the computer by giving it special names, the bottom line is that it's still the same thing (just not printed and delivered by a live human being). Thank goodness for people like John Wetzel at Wikipremed. I sincerely wish he would have entered a thread here.

It's about time I stopped my incoherent rant. I'm just really curious what students have to say about the prices and what you get.

Sorry for a negative thread, but I think there are times that things like this need to be brought to the forefront. I guess that Berkeley side is kicking in.

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[powerof0]

Thanks for the price comparison and the useful comments. However, the Examkrackers books can probably be obtained more cheaply than what you've listed, since websites such as Amazon seem to offer lower prices (and free shipping). Also, once taking the shipping costs into account, Berkeley Review unfortunately does not appear to offer significant savings.

Of course, Berkeley Review books are still worth getting even if they're more expensive, but the ordering system is just a little antiquated. If only the owners could modernize the ordering process and switch to a cheaper carrier... I'm sure the books would become even more popular once that is done. (But I heard that the owners are too nostalgic to change the current system?)

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

Thanks for the price comparison and the useful comments. However, the Examkrackers books can probably be obtained more cheaply than what you've listed, since websites such as Amazon seem to offer lower prices (and free shipping). Also, once taking the shipping costs into account, Berkeley Review unfortunately does not appear to offer significant savings.

Of course, Berkeley Review books are still worth getting even if they're more expensive, but the ordering system is just a little antiquated. If only the owners could modernize the ordering process and switch to a cheaper carrier... I'm sure the books would become even more popular once that is done. (But I heard that the owners are too nostalgic to change the current system?)

Nostalgic! What a perfect word. That pretty much describes the web person. And believe me, your words are echoed over and over, but I sometimes believe on deaf ears. One day it will change, but I'm guessing you'll already be in medical school when it does.

I took the prices directly from the thread posted by the EK representative. As for shipping, I believe the average FedEx shipping price is about $24 for a full set of books (it varies with location). If you can get free shipping from Amazon and there is no sales tax on the books, then it sounds like it's about equal in terms of overall price for full sets. In that case, it should come down to selecting the better book for each topic.

 

[greathl21]

On the other end, EK verbal is touted as superior to BR verbal, they each give about the same amount of passages and questions, and EK is cheaper. That's just weird and backwards.

I think that TBR knows that their verbal is not as good so they make it more expensive in order to encourage students to buy the EK book!

 

[Swagster]

I think that TBR knows that their verbal is not as good so they make it more expensive in order to encourage students to buy the EK book!

Interesting thought. So does that mean that EK knows their gen chem and physics aren't that good? Who buys new EK books with so many used ones around? The EK rep said they don't change the EK books, so why would anyone be motivated to buy them new?

 

[DescartesK]

I might be wrong here, but I was under the assumption that an event like "Test Prep Week" is a chance for the Testing companies to showcase their products AND offer special event discounts.
I dont want to endulge into a look-at-how-disadvantaged-i-am post, but i do feel that some of us will not be able to afford your packages and that a discounted offer would be a good relief for some of us living on budgets.
I have seen evidence of that in none of the threads here. Again, I may be wrong.

 

[ridethecliche]

I agree with the above poster.

In addition the EK full series books are about $100 on amazon. The 1001/101 books are about 15-20 dollars cheaper per book as well.

However, I bought EK over TBR ONLY because of the antiquated TBR ordering system. If it was online and through paypal or Credit card, I would have bought all the TBR books (minus verbal) in a heartbeat.

With EK, I have supplemented the books with the NOVA physics book and such. I don't think I would have had to do that with TBR.

You're losing a TON of sales by not selling online. EK has higher visibility due to their availability on amazon and sales on their site. The current and future generations of students don't really use checks.

I only ordered a checkbook so I could pay my housemate for rent. I would still have preferred to just transfer the money to her account online. I hate writing checks. Most of my friends in college didn't have a checkbook, either.

So it's great that you have a good product. Seriously, it's incredible!
The low market permeability has a lot to do with the website and lack of visibility. That and the fact that your exams are ridiculously high priced for not being official materials.

If economies of scale are to be believed, organizing an online purchasing system would increase volume, decrease margins per product, but still increase profit. Given that most materials are priced pretty high to begin with, I don't think you'd really have to lower prices on anything but the exams. And a 45 day time frame? Seriously? So per day, you're SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than AAMC. That's a little ridiculous, no?

In terms of marketing, if you organized your books into a textbook with some practice and an accompanying workbook (ala EK) you'd probably sell more books too. EK gets you because after you buy their base 'textbooks' you think "OH I SHOULD PRACTICE MORE!" and get the 1001 books.

EK recommends that you only get the 1001 books if you're weak, but if one looks around this site, one realizes that most people using EK have the books if not other practice material so EK fails in marketing in that regard. Doing 46 questions for a chapter doesn't make you great in the material, ESPECIALLY if you took the classes a bit ago. If I was studying for the MCAT a year ago, then maybe I wouldn't have needed the material, but I bought it and I'll use it.

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to spell out my thinking a bit. I'm honestly bummed that I'm not using your books, and I hope to never have to, but if I do then we all know what I'm going with. Also, for people on here, your being so incredibly helpful is a huge upsell for the books. Your knowledge of both the materials and the test itself is a testament to the books and their 'worth'. I didn't know about the books before SDN, but I knew about EK, and now I'm 'sold' on your product.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

I agree with the above poster.

In addition the EK full series books are about $100 on amazon. The 1001/101 books are about 15-20 dollars cheaper per book as well.

However, I bought EK over TBR ONLY because of the antiquated TBR ordering system. If it was online and through paypal or Credit card, I would have bought all the TBR books (minus verbal) in a heartbeat.

With EK, I have supplemented the books with the NOVA physics book and such. I don't think I would have had to do that with TBR.

You're losing a TON of sales by not selling online. EK has higher visibility due to their availability on amazon and sales on their site. The current and future generations of students don't really use checks.

I only ordered checkbook so I could pay my housemate for rent. I would still have preferred to just transfer the money to her account online. I hate writing checks. Most of my friends in college didn't had a checkbook, either.

So it's great that you have a good product. Seriously, it's incredible!
The low market permeability has a lot to do with the website and lack of visibility. That and the fact that your exams are ridiculously high priced for not being official materials.

If economies of scale are to be believed, organizing an online purchasing system would increase volume, decrease margins per product, but still increase profit. Given that most materials are priced pretty high to begin with, I don't think you'd really have to lower prices on anything but the exams. And a 45 day time frame? Seriously? So per day, you're SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than AAMC. That's a little ridiculous, no?

In terms of marketing, if you organized your books into a textbook with some practice and an accompanying workbook (ala EK) you'd probably sell more books too. EK gets you because after you buy their base 'textbooks' you think "OH I SHOULD PRACTICE MORE!" and get the 1001 books.

EK recommends that you only get the 1001 books if you're weak, but if one looks around this site, one realizes that most people using EK have the books if not other practice material so EK fails in marketing in that regard. Doing 46 questions for a chapter doesn't make you great in the material, ESPECIALLY if you took the classes a bit ago. If I was studying for the MCAT a year ago, then maybe I wouldn't have needed the material, but I bought it and I'll use it.

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to spell out my thinking a bit. I'm honestly bummed that I'm not using your books, and I hope to never have to, but if I do then we all know what I'm going with. Also, for people on here, your being so incredibly helpful is a huge upsell for the books. Your knowledge of both the materials and the test itself is a testament to the books and their 'worth'. I didn't know about the books before SDN, but I knew about EK, and now I'm 'sold' on your product.

Excellent post. From a logical, business-driven perspective, you have a sound argument with each of your points. You could turn the company into a highly profitable venture with some realtively minor changes. Some of your comments have been echoed by others, so for people with even the slightest business savvy, the BR model is low functioning. But the thing that both frustrates me about BR and at the same time amazes me is that they aren't trying to become rich. I look at the cars each owner drives and think, "really?" They could do so much better. On a quirky historical note, EK started as a classroom company using BR books for their inaugural run. Funny how much the companies have diverged from that point.

So the thing I have to remind myself constantly, and believe me I get really frustrated as a company rep having to explain why things are so 90s, is that BR is a teaching company first and foremost. The majority of what they do is with the classroom course in mind. If they ever decided to make the home-study portion the focus, I'm sure you'd see many of the suggestions you made implemented. But even the manager of the home-study division sees himself as a tutor and teacher first and manager second.

So while I can't fully address your suggestions and comments without shrugging my shoulders a bit, I can at least address your study situation. I get the mentality of a boycott of the company itself, but I don't get why you wouldn't get the books used. Quite honestly, I completely respect your stance (and when no one is looking even applaud it). You're very smart and will get a great score no matter what, but it could be even better if you added BR passages to the mix. The general chemistry and physics books are so strong that you'd save time in the long run and be better prepared. From your comments, I believe you know this already. The other books would help too, if not for more passages at least for reference if the book you are currently using had a typo. Get them used, because you can still take a stance, but at the same time have the best possible practice materials.

The only business issue I want to argue with you about is the book layout. Again, this is coming from a teacher-first, business-second mentality, but I strongly believe the passages should be included with the study books. To be fully prepared, you need to review the concepts, reaquaint yourself with the terminology, and learn about applications. But that only goes so far, because you especially need passages and answer explanations to bring it home. I strongly believe keeping the books together is key, and vote with the regime on this one. Making a little more money would not justify breaking up the books. A good example is the current biology book. The extra exams that were added at the end of each book in the recent printing (October 2010) could have easily been added to the CBT pool and sold for profit. But it was important to the author to have a summary test at the end.

As for the on-line exams, I'm a believer in the 45-day limit. It's there to force a committment. For a student who buys three exams, why do they need a 45 day window? If they review material first and then do practice exams, then 45 days is plenty of time to take the exams, review the exams, and go over them one last time right before their test. The time-limit is also employed with the students in the class, although quite honestly if they opt to postpone then they can easily extend the lifetime of their accounts by asking in person. The only thing I'd change of I was in charge would be the rigidity in extensions. But in fairness to them, they are pretty good about extensions.

As for the cost of CBTs, I think economy of scale is a great point here. I'd say we match perfectly in thought. A lower price would be beneficial. However, I'm not sure what the details of their contract are, but if I had to guess I'd say they're paying too much for the programming of the exams and usage of the site. They overdid the security aspect by choosing a high-end server to protect the exam's backend, and the result is that they are paying a premium for their host site. I'm not anywhere near the company books, but I don't believe they make much on the CBT exams. But if I were in charge, I'd take the risk of lowering the prices a bit, making it one-click purchasing, and see if the volume of users could balance out the costs. If nothing else, maybe run a promotional period with lowered prices to see. But that's not happening anytime soon. On the positive side, at least the site NEVER crashes.

Finally, I appreciate your sincere words. I have grown a deep love for SDN because of people such as yourself. Admittedly, I joined because it was my job to represent at a TPW event. I knew about the site and even used it for application information. But I shied away from it because of an aversion to online forums. Well I'll be damned if I'm not addicted to this place, and it comes down to the continual parade of great people around here. All of the things people (non premeds) say about premeds just doesn't hold water. There have been way too many cases of people genuinely helping people. From the bottom of my heart, I hope you pull a high-30 to low-40 score, because the world needs more doctors like you.

Thanks for your post!

 

[ridethecliche]

Hahaha, thanks. Didn't expect that. I guess I'll have to work harder and do your words justice.

I agree about keeping the books together!

At the same time, I will say that my logic still stands even if the owners are doing this to 'not only make a profit'. If they think their product will really help people excel at the mcat more than anything else on the market, then they should want to be able to get more market saturation, i.e. sell online, so they can help a larger number of people.

I actually didn't consider server costs in my 'analysis', just the fact that the tests were already made. Honestly, I'm glad that you guys even offer them in the first place. Most companies that have their own tests (kaplan, tpr, etc) don't really part them out unless you're in the course. I'm glad you make them available to everyone.

That's about all I have to add.

Unfortunately, there were no used books for sale when I started studying, else I would have picked those up. And looking at it now, the weeks worth of wait would have been more than made up for by the materials, especially because I wouldn't have needed to add anything for my BS/PS review and would have supplemented with EK VR.

I think I'll end up the same as I would have with TBR because of all the supplemental material I have. If I had stuck with TBR for BS/PS, I wouldn't have needed most, if not all, the supplemental books, i.e. nova, 1001, kaplan (free from a friend), etc.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[greathl21]

At the same time, I will say that my logic still stands even if the owners are doing this to 'not only make a profit'. If they think their product will really help people excel at the mcat more than anything else on the market, then they should want to be able to get more market saturation, i.e. sell online, so they can help a larger number of people.

I concur!

But also from previous posts, it seems like the founders have tried to expand and it didn't pan out quite as they would have liked. I'm guessing that it left a bad taste in their mouth and that now they just want to focus on teaching. I don't agree with their line of thinking 100%, heck not even 70%, but I understand where they are coming from. We are looking at it from the perspective of a student. We also have to see it from their perspective.

 

[whiteshadodw]

Interesting thought. So does that mean that EK knows their gen chem and physics aren't that good? Who buys new EK books with so many used ones around? The EK rep said they don't change the EK books, so why would anyone be motivated to buy them new?

because some people just like new shiny stuff. but who buys EK anyways...new or used...when you can buy a tablet or pdf reader for $300 and have all the EK PDFs on there instead of lugging around 20 lbs of books?

 

[thegigglegang]

I have been trying to reach TBR for about 2 weeks. They won't call me back or email me back. What is going on? I have been calling the 1800 number. Is there a better email or number to use?? PLEASE let me know!!! I am desperate!