Please, please, please don't go to NYU

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I will be sure to keep in mind that a brand new customized BMW shipped straight from the factory isn't actually a luxury when as I'm buckling my three kids into the back of my Hyundai coup wondering, how much longer I can fit two car seats and booster in there with having to break down and buy a minivan.
There is no need to get all pissy. I meant buying a new car inside the US compared to building custom and going to Germany, this service is free and not luxury
Life is about choices. You chose to have three children wnen you can't afford to

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If Trump ever does something bad with the income driven plans, many new grads would be totally screwed.
I HIGHLY doubt the income-driven plans are going anywhere. If they do, default rates will skyrocket. This would be devastating to the DoE because instead of being able to recoup some type of percentage that is owed to them, they get 100% of zero.
I have personally NEVER heard of a practicing dentist or physician who cannot make ANY sort of payment on their student loans.

Life is about choices. You chose to have three children wnen you can't afford to
Children are not a purchase. Choosing to have 3 children and a Hyundai as opposed to not having kids and driving in a luxury car is not the definition, or even example of a poor financial decision.

I will be sure to keep in mind that a brand new customized BMW shipped straight from the factory isn't actually a luxury when as I'm buckling my three kids into the back of my Hyundai coup wondering, how much longer I can fit two car seats and booster in there with having to break down and buy a minivan.
I think you two are on the same page, he did say luxury is not a substitute for happiness. Like you mentioned, if the cost of having that flexibility in your career to have a more positive quality of life is high tuition, then it's worth it for many. I think he was simply defining the term luxury as it relates to your story as something that would require an additional premium.
BTW, when my kids were a little younger I had a Hyundai also :p. I said I would NEVER get a minivan (stigma, you know how it is). But after seeing some minivans today, wowzers. I was kind of jealous of how cool they were. Some of them can cost upwards of $50K with all the bells and whistles. We ended up going with an SUV. But I would get a new gray hair every time they ding the walls in the garage when opening their doors.
 
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There is no need to get all pissy. I meant buying a new car inside the US compared to building custom and going to Germany, this service is free and not luxury
Life is about choices. You chose to have three children wnen you can't afford to

You cannot prepare for every eventuality in life. I went to college, got married, and worked hard in my career for a decade before deciding to start a family with my husband. By most people's standards I did the responsible thing in starting a family. Nothing I did could have prevented my son from having downs syndrome or my sister from being a totally unfit single mother. Suddenly my job that takes me out of the country frequently wasn't so great and I had to make some hard decisions about what was really important in my life- and I made them.

I didn't have to have three kids, especially two that have special needs. I could have aborted my son. I could have let my nephew be put in a random foster home somewhere. But yes, you're right life IS about choices- none of which are new. The oldest is choosing to be a victim. Or choosing not to. Second oldest; loyalty. Family first, good times or bad.
 
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Right. Income driven plans keep you in perpetual indentured servitude and the tax bomb at the end loots your savings.

Hope yall have been following how much the Fed cares about pslf as well....

First discharge ever starts next month....

If you want dentistry this bad and this is the ONLY place you can get into....be okay with the fact that you will potentially pass away with your loans....unless the system implodes from defaults and the federal government is forced to refinance interest rates.

Plan worst case scenario

Dental school is enough of a hell in its own right. It's incredible that graduates have to suffer with ridiculous 400-500k loans after the fact. Opening a private practice with loans like that overhead is a huge risk that could potentially end very badly.
 
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I HIGHLY doubt the income-driven plans are going anywhere. If they do, default rates will skyrocket. This would be devastating to the DoE because instead of being able to recoup some type of percentage that is owed to them, they get 100% of zero.
I have personally NEVER heard of a practicing dentist or physician who cannot make ANY sort of payment on their student loans.

I think the only reason you haven't heard of it happening before is because we have income driven repayment.

For a typical NYU debt load of $550,000, the monthly payment under the extended plan would be $3800 a month w a typical 6.8% interest rate.

The typical associate salary is about $120,000 in your first year. After taxes maybe that's $90,000. That leaves you with roughly $45,000 left to live on after making your loan payment under the lowest repayment plan possible without REPAYE/PAYE/IBR. Maybe you live in NYC and pay a typical $2000 a month to rent an apartment. Now you've got $21,000 left to do everything else, and you're a doctor.

Many people would adjust their lifestyle and make the payment. However a lot of folks wouldn't I think with that high of an amount.

I agree taking away income driven repayment is politically impossible in general terms. But I think taking away something like REPAYE and PAYE and replacing them with something less attractive for future students is totally possible, maybe even for current ones. If they don't, it's a political decision not a legal one because I believe they have the authority to alter the loan forgiveness programs but probably won't.
 
So becoming a dentist isnt worth the amount of debt a person takes on after graduating?
 
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The proposed repayment plan you mentioned doesn't even cover the interest on the loan amount. What will happen is it will artificially balloon when the professional is still "doing everything right" so the balance will perpetually accrue even tho you are on the payment plan and being a good boy.
Do you have a source claiming that repayment plan does not even cover the interest? Or are you just choosing to post more inaccurate information? It's one thing when you make these wild claims about the state of the future economy based purely on speculation and conspiracy theory. It's another when you deny fact.

The proposed payment plan he mentioned is accurate. You cannot argue with math.
 
So becoming a dentist isnt worth the amount of debt a person takes on after graduating?
I'm going to go right ahead and add becoming a doctor by attending a private medical schools to that list.
 
I'm going to go right ahead and add becoming a doctor by attending a private medical schools to that list.

The most expensive medical schools are 50k a year, and salaries in primary care are 200k+ so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast.

We are talking about dental students taking on 2x more debt to make 2x less.
 
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Do you have a source claiming that repayment plan does not even cover the interest? Or are you just choosing to post more inaccurate information? It's one thing when you make these wild claims about the state of the future economy based purely on speculation and conspiracy theory. It's another when you deny fact.

The proposed payment plan he mentioned is accurate. You cannot argue with math.

Easy:

debt 500K (conservative for NYU) at 7% interest: thats 35k of interest a year.

If you are paying 10% of your 120k discretionary income (starting associate salary), then you are not covering the interest payment. Not even close.
 
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I'm going to go right ahead and add becoming a doctor by attending a private medical schools to that list.

Some. Even the Caribbean scam factories don't even charge NYU tuition with the cost of living.

Easy:

debt 500K (conservative for NYU) at 7% interest: thats 35k of interest a year.

If you are paying 10% of your 120k discretionary income (starting associate salary), then you are not covering the interest payment. Not even close.

To be fair, he was referring to the proposed rate from the financial aid planner. What's insane is congress thinks that the income driven plans that cap at like 12.5% are actually able to ameliorate school expenditures because they think it still costs peanuts from when they went to school 30-40 years ago.

This system is incredibly reminiscent of the housing crisis.
 
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Some. Even the Caribbean scam factories don't even charge NYU tuition with the cost of living.



To be fair, he was referring to the proposed rate from the financial aid planner. What's insane is that all the idiots in congress think that the income driven plans that cap at like 12.5% are actually able to ameliorate school expenditures because they think it still costs two eggs and a chicken from when they went to school 30-40 years ago.

This system is incredibly reminiscent of the housing crisis. Easy lending. It'll make all the admin and many of the chairs rich as well as the federal government horrifying amounts of heavy that isn't tax deductible, while essentially making the social contract of "education" being a public good in this country nothing more than a giant scam.

I've been thinking about it earlier how the government is making debt slaves out of the professional working class. Capitalism at its finest.

I do see differences with the housing crisis in that the loans are handed out to people who will actually be able to make payments on them. Also, they wouldn't be able to start at square one by giving up their house, but will be indebted to the government for a piece of paper.

C'mon people it shouldn't cost 80k a year in tuition to learn how to fix oral dentition.
 
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My bad. Was reading a residency thread and salary with tuition while going on an income driven plan. For those, they took the lowest payment plan available as mentioned above
That is NOT the lowest payment plan, and that is not plan that was mentioned. He discussed the extended plan, which is set at 25 years. Using his exact scenario, his numbers are spot on:

Loan Calculator

Loan Balance: $550,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $550,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 25 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Enrollment Status: In Repayment
Degree Program: Doctor (M.D.)
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $137,500.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $3,817.40
Number of Payments: 300

Source: FinAid.org

550,000 at 6.8k interest means 37400 per year in interest only.
That is NOT how interest works.
Loan: 550k
Interest: 6.8%
Payoff: 40 years (retirement age)
Average monthly payment would need to be: $4360 (this is three mortgage payments in some parts of the country)
Annual: $52,320
You're kidding, right?
1. Show me a federal student loan repayment program that provides a 40 year term. Doesn't exist. You literally made that up.
2. Even if it did, your calculations are STILL way off. Using your theory of a fixed $4,360.00 minimum monthly payment:

Loan Calculator

Loan Balance: $550,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $550,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 18.6 years
Minimum Payment: $4,360.00
Enrollment Status: In Repayment
Degree Program: Doctor (M.D.)
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $137,500.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $4,360.00
Number of Payments: 223

Source: FinAid.org

Paying that amount per month results in paying off your balance in LESS THAN HALF the time you presented.

This is occurring with public service loan forgiveness as well. Not sure if dental qualifies, but Pslf caps at like 12.5% income based off of repaye, ibr, etc.....so paying 12.5k per year doesn't even cover the interest and that program may not stay around.
THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS EITHER.
1. Not sure if dental qualifies? It has nothing to do with your profession, it is ALL dependent on your employer.
2. PSLF does NOT cap at like 12.5% income. It is based on being enrolled in an eligibile repayment plan which require a percentage of your discretionary income.

At this point you have repeatedly demonstrated the of scope of your financial knowledge. You have also demonstrated the scope of your knowledge on how student loans (or any loans) work in the first place. It's safe to say at this point that you are NOT a reliable source of information on the subject matter, and you should learn the fundamentals before providing your financial expertise or any more lessons in economics.
 
I used the initial arbitrary payment amount of 40 to show a first year monthly amount to be paid to pop out a monthly number for aggressive payment. It was poorly worded and the point was to show the insane cost of making aggressive payments if you actually want to pay it off which need to happen immediately postgrad. It's edited up top from poor wording to not throw people off.

As for interest, that's exactly how the debt initially accrues....wtf? It explodes off of the principal. It will be slightly less as you make monthly payments, but that first year you've barely touched your two and a half house mortgages in loans.

Its your principle compounding with interest.

It decreases over time when you actually make a dent in the principle. Less interest accrues on the lower principle.

Pslf "caps" by taking a required portion of your income as a minimum. Thats what I implied with "caps," not that you can't pay over that as if they won't let you. You can pay more, but people enroll in it and think they're all set paying that min since it's the requirement. The min payment DOESNT COVER the interest in some cases which is why if that goes away, you're in a hole. And good freaking luck having that stick around. It wasn't meant to be a safety net for professional schools to loot the public treasury through loans. It was meant to incentivize lawyers and teachers to take public sector over private sector jobs for a public good since the pay is awful. Whoops! That backfired hard, huh!

The min payment wasn't in reference to his payment model, my fault. It's a proposed min payment of what appears to be 12.5% under what trump will propose for when people in school now, get out. Students are acting like everything is fine and dandy enrolling in those programs which dependent on program, may have a tax bomb at the end of payment period...aka goodbye to all of your savings when the remaining "forgiven" balance gets taxed and they take your retirement savings. Many students don't know that they aren't going to pay it off in their career and the interest is absurd.

It is insane that you even have to have financial planning go to these lengths due to how predatory the lending and the repayment programs are.

Taking his example for discussion:
$3800ish per month is about 45 grand a year. That's 33% of an associates income before taxes. Holy ****! Can you do it? Yeah and you're making a high school teacher salary after all is said and done while paying 24k for the apartment in the outrageously overpriced geographic area.

Trump wants a plan of 25 years at 12.5% fixed last I heard. Good luck to all the students listening to that advice. If students actually follow federal government recommendations (12.5% or so....or the min payments for pslf), then you aren't going to pay it off and will have the tax bomb at the end for anything discharged. Tax bombs still haven't hit a lot of people because they are in the system currently. The problem is that everyone enrolling in these programs THINK this is going to be okay and is actually sustainable.

PSLF requires I believe a capped min amount of about 10-12.5% and then it will get forgiven in 10 years. the first time ever in 10 years, since the inception of the program, is to occur in a month and a half, so nobody knows if it will even stay. It will be all over the news. Watch. Im under the impression it will get phased out in the future for people who haven't applied yet.

There is a serious issue right now in which there are two different "qualifying" settings. One of which the government is trying to not recognize even tho people are making payments as if it would be. Dave Ramsey just did a segment on this. Check YouTube.

Let's scrap some things and be very blunt right now, and I will admit that some of my comments were not detailed enough and pulled examples that led to confusion.These are the takehome points.

1. Tuition will NEVER drop unless the funds are capped or students stop applying. Neither of those are occurring. Hence, gravytrain. The responsible thing to do currently is NOT apply instead of hoping the government will fix this.
2. The federal government offers payment plans like ibr, repaye, paye, etc in which a percentage becomes the required minimum. They operate off of what they consider to be a percentage that doesn't cut too hard into your salary.....but the ones writing these rules went to school when it was a FRACTION of the cost because the loans were not guaranteed gravy back then. You have lawyers in there that paid school off with a few paychecks way back when.
3. Students are enrolling in these programs under the impression that they can pay things at the min percentage the government allows.....and be ok. This is dangerous because in this example, a min percentage DOESNT cover the first year out principal plus interest payments as an associate dentist pulling 120k in the geographic area. 12k-15k doesn't cover it! That is insane! You aren't paying off the interest under what is considered an acceptable percentage of your income by our government! And it's the school to blame for their charges!
4. The student loan planner has offered a way to attack this with an approximate $3800 monthly payment.
5. That is more than three standard mortgage payments, so those students are paying as if they have three houses while likely living in an apartment.
6. Students currently within usually get grandfathered into their loan plans. The recommendations from the government and the debt total are the worst they have ever been in the history of US education. That isn't exaggeration or hysteria.
7. We still don't know what will happen with the tax bombs for students who think they're being good on the 25 year plans making payments, but unlikely to actually pay it all off on their current trajectory.
8. Now with pslf about to have first discharges, we don't know what will happen to the programs, but I can guarantee you that government will NOT systematically change programs while also capping loans. You should predict that tuition will just keep increasing even if programs get axed in the future and the profits will keep flowing into the schools with each new wave of students told by some 50 yr old idiot that it's all going to be okay if you follow your dreams. The government is awful at doing large systematic fixes.
10. The best plan is a projection of paying everything off from outside market forces postgrad which the guy who started this thread has provided....with serious serious warning.

If you can't healthily do that and the finaid projection for tuition from the website is saying it's a high risk which is a part of the loan counseling that everyone has to go through, then do a different field or go to a different school. Schools will 100% not be upfront about debt to income and the current predatory lending system. They have way too much profit to lose.

Debt, mental health, and depression are all correlated. It's not always causation, but they are correlated. Dental, med, and pharm have some of the highest likelihood ratios for suicidal tendencies. This nonsense right here is a mental health ticking timebomb.....no, I'm not referring my comments or this threads banter, disagreements, or opinions.....Im talking about the tuition situation
So whats the solution? How am I suppose to handle the loans after graduating dental school?
 
So whats the solution? How am I suppose to handle the loans after graduating dental school?

Live like a student for 10+ years. But it depends on where you attended and how much loans you have.
 
So whats the solution? How am I suppose to handle the loans after graduating dental school?

If you're in school now, you should automatically be grandfathered into the repayment plans in your master promissory note. When you sign it, the repayment plans are binding. PSLF wasn't defined well for what qualified which is why there are so many issues currently. Find out what qualifies and pay attention in October when it hits for the first time. If you can get pslf in one of the qualifying settings and be grandfathered in, then do it.

If there is a military possibility, that's an option. A friend of mine had her dads school paid for by the military as a career change. Has his own practice now.

Everything else would be consulting the guy who made this thread since he's the expert.

If you can refinance to the private sector for a 2-3% interest rate, you can consider that and throw everything you can at the loans living cheap for a few years until it's manageable and you can be okay, then gradually go up and treat it like a second mortgage on autopay and forget about it.

If you have to be on an income driven, then you can do that and set aside a savings account and an investing account. Contact the poster here for what budget to utilize and the years necessary until the compounding interest is more manageable.

The big thing is mitigating the initial debt amount immediately so it can get paid off while your starting salary accrues. You should also negotiate as high as you possibly can with a senior dentist employer, even citing inflation, school cost projections, everything. If you can work more than 40 hrs per week, that will help. Enrolling in a plan and utilizing it as a safety guard for the min payment if life gets in the way is the best option.....just don't use that as a way to make the minimum payment and just coast when you should be aggressive. That's the problem I've seen....when people aren't even denting loans. It should be the backup safety net while you're chucking everything you can at the loans outside of your budget.

If you have to do a 25 year program, then do it and pay what you can and don't think about it other than autopay.

If tax codes ever change, take advantage, if a company will let you refi at 1-2% then consider it, if you can invest then consider it and let the balance accrue separate from a savings or 401k.

Pay attention to pslf, lending changes, what people who end up completing the 25 year plans way ahead of you do etc. If at the end of these plans you've aggressively paid off and there's literally nothing else to do, so many people ahead of you will have had problems that there will be forced changes most likely. What that is I'm not sure and can't predict that

If I were trying to fix this mess from up top,
-I'd plummet student interest rates to federal reserve levels so you'd essentially be paying as close to principle only
-I'd cap funding to universities to market fluctuation standard deviations of projected starting salary, which would plummet tuition and lead to administrative layoffs nationwide yet still fix the heart of the problem
- I would couple public service and rural jobs to underserved areas with tax deductions on all student loans with a refinance rate on your student loans of the lowest possible amount to incentivize professionals to go to underserved areas. The government would still make money from that while dropping your rate lower than mortgage rate levels.

Those might work. Nobody is currently doing that though, so you've got to go with what you've got.
 
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Live like a student for 10+ years. But it depends on where you attended and how much loans you have.

That's the easy answer, but if this person is literally in school and trying to sincerely get help now, I would contact the guy on this thread and make a plan for the first 5-10 years in congruence with federal options, geographic location. Idk if nhsc is an option for dentists. I'm assuming it is. It's best to plan with a financial advisor asap though.

I would also get as well versed as possible in understanding dental business models.
 
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The most expensive medical schools are 50k a year, and salaries in primary care are 200k+ so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast.

We are talking about dental students taking on 2x more debt to make 2x less.
Hmmmm, you're off by quite a lot.
 

Sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you, but a total COA of 80k/year is outright ridiculous. Just because dental is 100k+ doesn't negate 80k COA.

So, either you compare tuition v. tuition or COA v COA. I'm not sure why you said private medical schools are 50k/year, they're not. Also, don't forget 3-7 years of interesting collecting during residency.
 
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If there is a military possibility, that's an option. A friend of mine had her dads school paid for by the military as a career change. Has his own practice now.

.

I have been shadowing in the dental clinic at my base for the last year and even if I get the loan repayment package instead of HPSP I am still planning to hang in there with the Army because the experience that first year dentists get is really amazing compared to what you would be exposed to in private practice. You have mentors that want you to do well and succeed and will really help you perfect procedures because they aren't worried that you're going to open your own office down the street, or so I have been told. I've gotten to see work done with gold amalgam, which I have also been told is a little different that working with silver amalgam, because the military will cover the cost for gold. Plus, if you get in there are do a good job as an officer they have no problem sending you for a specialty (orthodontics is hard to get though, lots of slots for oral surgery on the the other hand). Even just doing the reserves for six years and getting the 50K per year of loan forgiveness is worth it because that would shave 300K off a 550K tuition bill at NYU. If you were to say, practice in an underserved area in Illinois I think they do up to 100K of loan repayment for 4 years, so yeah I would most likely try to do either AEGD for a year on active duty and then go to the reserves and do a state loan forgiveness plan if you can't get HPSP.

They also do 3-year HPSP and boards LOVE prior enlisted service. If you aren't competitive for HPSP I would honestly just enlist as a 68W, combat medic, and do a year of drill and then apply. In the military there are lots of paths to the same destination, you just gotta do your research.
 
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Sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you, but a total COA of 80k/year is outright ridiculous. Just because dental is 100k+ doesn't negate 80k COA.

So, either you compare tuition v. tuition or COA v COA. I'm not sure why you said private medical schools are 50k/year, they're not. Also, don't forget 3-7 years of interesting collecting during residency.

This 1000%. Once you factor in the fact that MD's HAVE to do a residency and dentist don't, the difference in total payment is marginal.
 
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This 1000%. Once you factor in the fact that MD's HAVE to do a residency and dentist don't, the difference in total payment is marginal.

Ehh but they do get paid during residency. Obviously not a normal MD salary, but probably enough to start making some sort of payments toward the accumulating interest. Meanwhile any dentist thinking of doing even a 2 year residency is likely paying for it
 
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This 1000%. Once you factor in the fact that MD's HAVE to do a residency and dentist don't, the difference in total payment is marginal.


I have no skin in the game as I'm not pursuing either, but physicians have been able to more or less shield their professional incomes through a variety of means starting with the fact that US MD schools get 90% of their funding from non-tuition sources.

While I'm not encouraging PSLF, years spend in residency would count towards it as most hospitals are non-for-profits. The way dentistry is going is no way different from vets, pharmacy and other non-physician healthcare occupations: high debt, low salaries. And as things stand right now medicine is a lot more financially sound, even though should not be pursued for that reason alone.
 
Sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you, but a total COA of 80k/year is outright ridiculous. Just because dental is 100k+ doesn't negate 80k COA.

So, either you compare tuition v. tuition or COA v COA. I'm not sure why you said private medical schools are 50k/year, they're not. Also, don't forget 3-7 years of interesting collecting during residency.

Tuition for NYU dental is almost 2x of MD when you factor yearly fees of 10k+ charged to dental students. In fact, they've been raising the cost by increasing various fees rather than changing "tuition". Don't forget that NYU med gives a lot of scholarships to students, including full rides (which is not at all uncommon at US MD schools). You have to do a one year dental residency to practice in NY and as has been pointed out above if you decide to do a dental specialty, you will not only not be paid during residency, you will have to pay the same ludicrous tuition prices as you did in dental school.
 
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Ehh but they do get paid during residency. Obviously not a normal MD salary, but probably enough to start making some sort of payments toward the accumulating interest. Meanwhile any dentist thinking of doing even a 2 year residency is likely paying for it

Eh...GPRs are paid. Almost all Peds residencies=paid. OMS=Paid; in terms of residencies.
Let's not jump to generalizations here. I do agree that NYU is just insane in terms of tuition, but let's get all the facts straight before we make these comparisons, please.
 
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Eh...GPRs are paid. Almost all Peds residencies=paid. OMS=Paid; in terms of residencies.
Let's not jump to generalizations here. I do agree that NYU is just insane in terms of tuition, but let's get all the facts straight before we make these comparisons, please.

Ortho, perio, endo, prostho = unpaid.

I mean imagine hospitals didn't pay their doctor residents!
 
Ortho, perio, endo, prostho = unpaid.

I mean imagine hospitals didn't pay their doctor residents!

Agreed. But this is why you choose your path/specialty wisely. I went into dental school knowing I wanted to specialize in peds, and worked my arse off accordingly. With all things, one has to do a legitimate cost/benefit analysis and make sure it makes sense regarding your personal situation.
Yes, if you are interested in Ortho or Endo, which are generally unpaid specialties as residents, then you really should do everything in your power to attend an in state dental school, as it simply is not financially savvy to pay "twice". But to say, "ALL" dental specialties are unpaid is a fallacy.
Also, keep in mind the reasons why OMS, GPR and Peds are generally paid, is because those specialties typically take call for affiliated hospitals, and are therefore included in the GME funding pool. We are essentially employees of the hospital during residency, and are treated just like any other PGY-1,2, etc.
When it comes to purely dollars and cents, there are various MDs that may never make more than 250k a year, there are GPs out there making 350k and up consistently. It all comes down to weighing the costs and benefits of your individual situation/circumstances.

But I agree, the costs need to drop...and are simply not sustainable.
 
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All VA residencies of all specialties are paid. And there are endo residencies that are paid.

My gawd, most dental residents are unpaid. What is this obsession with pointing out small exceptions? Do you want me to give a percentage of residencies which are unpaid?

The logic of SDN: be an outlier dentist to pay off average student debt. What could possible go wrong with that plan!
 
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I have been shadowing in the dental clinic at my base for the last year and even if I get the loan repayment package instead of HPSP I am still planning to hang in there with the Army because the experience that first year dentists get is really amazing compared to what you would be exposed to in private practice. You have mentors that want you to do well and succeed and will really help you perfect procedures because they aren't worried that you're going to open your own office down the street, or so I have been told. I've gotten to see work done with gold amalgam, which I have also been told is a little different that working with silver amalgam, because the military will cover the cost for gold. Plus, if you get in there are do a good job as an officer they have no problem sending you for a specialty (orthodontics is hard to get though, lots of slots for oral surgery on the the other hand). Even just doing the reserves for six years and getting the 50K per year of loan forgiveness is worth it because that would shave 300K off a 550K tuition bill at NYU. If you were to say, practice in an underserved area in Illinois I think they do up to 100K of loan repayment for 4 years, so yeah I would most likely try to do either AEGD for a year on active duty and then go to the reserves and do a state loan forgiveness plan if you can't get HPSP.

They also do 3-year HPSP and boards LOVE prior enlisted service. If you aren't competitive for HPSP I would honestly just enlist as a 68W, combat medic, and do a year of drill and then apply. In the military there are lots of paths to the same destination, you just gotta do your research.

There you have it folks. Even the incentivized programs for student loan repayment can't even pay off COA. You have to do two programs back to back now.

Writing is on the wall. This is not going to end well. At all.
 
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Judging simply by the 20k + views on this thread, I do think students are catching on. I'm no psychic, but I do think eventually enrollment at these private programs, not just NYU, will drop significantly, and competition for in state programs will likely increase.
 
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Judging simply by the 20k + views on this thread, I do think students are catching on. I'm no psychic, but I do think eventually enrollment at these private programs, not just NYU, will drop significantly, and competition for in state programs will likely increase.

Do you think the wonderful professors and admin that are just saints are viewing this as well?

Hi guys! :)
 
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Do you think the wonderful professors and admin that are just saints are viewing this as well?

Hi guys! :)

You can all #$@/ yourselves.

I probably just censored myself from mods. Oops

Not sure what the professors and admin have to do with this. Blame the government for handing out student loans like candy, leading to the steady rise in tuition. It will reach a point where everything comes crashing down, it's just a matter of when.
 
Judging simply by the 20k + views on this thread, I do think students are catching on. I'm no psychic, but I do think eventually enrollment at these private programs, not just NYU, will drop significantly, and competition for in state programs will likely increase.
How do you see the number of views of a thread?
 
Regardless of other posting, some of which I'll admit I should've phrased much better and could've had better interaction with this moderator....

This person may still be affiliated with a school. If they aren't, which they said and giving the benefit of the doubt, then maybe they just dont want to acknowledge what is actually happening to health fields and how horrifyingly unsustainable this is. I can't tell.
Benefit of the doubt? I see.
Well, I just happened to be online when you originally made this post and simply accused me of school affiliation. Again. That was it, one sentence. And now you backtrack. I see that it's easier to simply call me a liar, attack my character, and accuse me of something you have absolutely no evidence of because you think it will support your position instead of actually presenting and accurately backing up your argument.

You have, however, repeatedly demonstrated your lack of financial knowledge by not understanding how loans work, how interest works, how repayment plans work, or how PSLF works.

And yes, I am a moderator. But I am a member of these forums as well. I AM allowed to participate in conversations.
 
Regardless of other posting, some of which I'll admit I should've phrased much better and could've had better interaction with this moderator....

This person may still be affiliated with a school. If they aren't, which they said and giving the benefit of the doubt, then maybe they just dont want to acknowledge what is actually happening to health fields and how horrifyingly unsustainable this is. I can't tell.
I also wanted to thank you for the many lessons in finance. I do feel quite comfortable with my level of understanding though. My MBA prepared me quite well.

And for the last time I am not faculty, or employed by any institution. If you still feel that I am being untruthful about this, I encourage you to use the "Report Post To Moderator" function for this post. It is against SDN rules to lie and misrepresent themselves. It will go to senior administrators to investigate and make a decision on how to proceed.
 
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......so it's not the schools fault for taking and handing out the candy, which makes people slaves to the candy store by charging unending interest by charging for extra jellybeans that never even came with the original chocolate bunny?

......bruh.

The corollary to a previous issue in US history is

Hey! The loans for the housing crisis provided an avenue to actively screw people over. Honestly though, those bankers are good, straight up people still, regardless of profiting off of people who will never pay back by manipulating the loans, except this time it's nondischargeable to bankruptcy! Whooh!

Uh, again, the dental schools aren't the ones charging that interest. It's either the government or a private loan company.

The price of dentistry is increasing with new technology and the price of maintaining a school rises with it. Yes, some of the price increase is due to administrative bloat, but you'll find that kind of thing in every single field. I'm not going to fault schools for doing something that's within the law.

The problem isn't going to go away until the government puts limits on how much money can be loaned out to students. If and when that happens, you're going to see a lot of classes shrink and some schools shut down.
 
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I don't want to demonize the schools since I understand why the tuition hikes. They are getting less state funding per student, and each school needs to stay up to date with the latest tech to attract the best students to go there. Both situations cause the need for more money. The easiest way to get that is through raising tuition.

The burden of teaching in the 21st century in the US is put on the students when I think the burden might be misplaced. I would suggest limiting school tuition increases at a state level... this will put the burden back on admin (which I think is where it should be placed since they are providing the service). I know others have talked about limiting loans, but I think that will just keep the little guy out of school. I don't think schools are evil, out to get you, or lying in any way, but I do think that they should own the burden of school cost. Students prior to 2003 didn't have this burden, why should this generation?

However, it IS the burden of the student to understand the meaning of this debt. The prospective students should spend more time then a 45 min lecture on financial aid trying to understand the gravity of that much debt. After all if you have the ability to get into dental school, you are probably smart enough to realize that you need to really look into the cost.
 
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