Please Help. Dismissed from Med School after Senior Year

[Prncssbuttercup]

Your powers of observation need some work, too. You're chastising the wrong poster.

Nope... etudiante04 is the one that resurrected it by quoting Q
nice try though

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[Buzz Me]

Your powers of observation need some work, too. You're chastising the wrong poster.

Fail.

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

This is just a horror story, but my school dismissed me because I did not pass the USMLE Step 2 exam on my 3rd attempt. The school requires its students pass Step 2 to be awarded the MD degree, and has as its policy a 3-Attempts Rule. So, despite my completing and passing all my required classes and rotations and in-school exams (several in which I received an Honors grade), my school dismissed me per this horrific policy of theirs.

I checked the USMLE site and they say they recommend six attempts per USMLE Step exam. My school limits it to three, and I found out that most med schools have no such policy in place at all! I contacted a USMLE rep and he says that it's the medical school that sets the final policy, that their's (USMLE) is merely a suggestion. I should add that on each of my repeat attempts on the test I got progressively closer to passing, so that on my last time taking the exam I missed passing by 1% !

So I guess I need to know what recourse I have? One of my school's deans met with me to discuss my options but they were basically: apply to med schools in Europe, or off-shore. But there has to be some other option other than repeat it all over again. Should I speak to an attorney about this? It's infuriating that I'm being denied what I have strived so long to achieve when, had I chosen my 2nd choice med school (U of Illinois), I would not be in this situation as they have no such graduation policy. My wife graduated Georgetown Med School and they had no policy such as this either.

on.

 

[gyngyn]

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

on.

Your chances of matching are so vanishingly small as to be non-detectable.
There comes a time to let go and move on.

 

[Goro]

My sympathies, shelly, it seems like in the old Gary Larssen cartoon, God really hit the "smite" button on you.

Teaching moment. OP and shelly would be dead meat in trying to get into a DO school.

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

on.

 

[Doctor Bob]

what would you do if you were in my situation?

You are not meant to be a physician. Find something else to do with your life.

[/toughlove]

 

[PikminOC]

Ok, you are likely going to take this the wrong way, but please understand it is not meant to come across bad.

As a father that adopts medical-needs kids I spend a lot of time in teaching hospitals as a patient. I try to be very forgiving and understanding of Interns; but if I knew one had failed STEP 2 three times, I would refuse to consent for them to treat my child. And I legally have that right. It is nothing about them personally, but the test exists for a reason; and repeat failures point to a problem EITHER in the student OR the program.

I would honestly look at what has occurred and do as other say and talk to your program about where to go from here.

How would you know this information of your physician anyway to begin with?

Do you ask your physician about all of their training, step exams, rotation scores, NBME, grades?

 

[PikminOC]

My school required us to pass each within 3 attempts, or we would be dismissed. As mentioned above, some states (like the state my med school was in) would not license someone who failed a board exam 3 times. Their policy seemed fairly reasonable in light of that restriction.

Honestly, I think off shore schools are going to be your best bet. Of course that might limit your licensing prospects even further. Or you could just let it go and pursue something else. Failing CK 3 times suggests that you'd probably have similar difficulty on Step 3 and on board certification exams. You're also going to have a hard time matching as it is. We had someone in my class who was dismissed after failing Step 1 3 times. He's moved on and is doing non-medical work. He appears to be reasonably happy and doing OK. With income-based loan repayments, even if you don't make a physician's salary, you can still make your loan payments.

My school required it too.
OP, which schools have you found that don't require it? Maybe talk to them.

 

[PikminOC]

wow! wow!! wow!!! am sorry big brother... But don't even think of taking a lawyer. The school is mad at you right now because you took a chance that someone else would have occupied during the admission process. It seems you make a fool of them telling them they made a big mistake for admitting you. Anyway the only option I have for you is to consider going into another field of study. Medicine is not the only way to make more money or gain prestige in America. Maybe God is planning something different for you, you might not know...Do not give up and do not lose hope,try exploring another career, America is a big land where we have many options to lift it up...Thanks and good luck..

???

 

[PikminOC]

Thanks for all the responses and sincere suggestions. To answer a few questions:

.

I spoke to a contact at the AMA Medical Education Dept about this and he informed me that most US schools do not have a requirement to pass the boards to get the MD degree, and that many don't require that you even take the boards! It just seems like an unfair and ruinous policy to me, and not just now because I'm on the butt-end of it.

Well, I'll figure out something. But thanks again for the frank advice.

The AMA is way OUT OF TOUCH with reality. IMO

 

[Gandyy]

Oh my god, my sympathies go out to you Shelly.

 

[QofQuimica]

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

I'd find something else to do with my life. If it weren't for bad luck, you'd have none, shelly, and no one can say you don't have tenacity after undergoing twelve years of med school. But I agree with the others that it's time for you to move on to a new career. Unfortunately, becoming a licensed US physician isn't going to happen for you.

 

[samac]

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

on.

You're done love. That's a lot of failed attempts, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

But let's all take this as a reminder. If life happens and you aren't prepared POSTPONE. don't take it until you're ready, and if you're ready and life is beats you down stand back up first.

I know a couple people who have been dismissed for failing boards multiple times after loss of a family member. Don't be them.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm sorry shelly but you're likely done

 

[Promethean]

what would you do if you were in my situation?

You could also look into emigration/foreign schools / training programs. But your chances of becoming a physician in the US are too small to consider.

I'm so sorry. I really hope that you take care of yourself. Hearing that a road you've traveled through such adversity is now closed for good... that is crushing. But it doesn't have to be the end of your story. There are alternatives that you can pursue. Having helped my sweetheart through the long process of accepting that practicing medicine is off the table for her, I can assure you that there is life afterward, and that it isn't all that bad.

 

[Goro]

Indeed. When one door closes in Life, others open up.

You could also look into emigration/foreign schools / training programs. But your chances of becoming a physician in the US are too small to consider.

I'm so sorry. I really hope that you take care of yourself. Hearing that a road you've traveled through such adversity is now closed for good... that is crushing. But it doesn't have to be the end of your story. There are alternatives that you can pursue. Having helped my sweetheart through the long process of accepting that practicing medicine is off the table for her, I can assure you that there is life afterward, and that it isn't all that bad.

 

[Dohnut]

That is what should happen right? As adults, we should all treat each other's opinions with respect, regardless of what they are. However we also should look to correct any misconceptions, in a adult and respectful manner. I applaud that any flame war has not happened. I wish it would happen more often.

and my question was not meant to start any flame war. I am sorry if it came off that way, a lot of voice inflections are lost in typing. I was just trying to pick your brain regarding your question. No offense intended.

Flame wars are what a lot of nervous undergrads do.

 

[Dohnut]

Your chances of matching are so vanishingly small as to be non-detectable.
There comes a time to let go and move on.

Isn't the truth cruel? But like Goro said, when one door closes, others open up.

 

[Dohnut]

You're done love. That's a lot of failed attempts, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

But let's all take this as a reminder. If life happens and you aren't prepared POSTPONE. don't take it until you're ready, and if you're ready and life is beats you down stand back up first.

I know a couple people who have been dismissed for failing boards multiple times after loss of a family member. Don't be them.

Don't let personal emotions get in your head when you're doing professional work. Once you do, it's the best way to screw yourself over.

 

[TheWorldWarrior]

I am also in a similar situation. I started in a US medical school and got one attempt only after horrendous politics. I went to a Carribean school and due the trauma and psychology of what happened in a US school..it took me 5 attempts to pass USMLE step1. I did in 2004. passed CS in 2005. I was 7 weeks from graduation in CT when Katrina happened and I came home...lost 5 family members. Then my failed step2ck 4 times. The last attempt i failed by just a few point sand was under extreme duress.
i had three family members hospitalized in a 6 month period...my father with pneumonia..my insulin dependent diabetic mother with a broken leg and afib, my brother with cavernous sinus thrombosis. my 7 year rule ended in may 2011. Ross would not give me an extension on my window period. I had to take my last attempt in nov 2010.
so instead of being 7 weeks from graduation, I transferred to another school and became 33 weeks (CMU). Because I was outside my 7 year rule..ecfmg requires that I retake step1 and step2ck by dec 2012. I failed step1 on my 6th attempt by a few points and was not allowed to continue.
My recourse:
faxing all 50 states for an extension/petition from a state board. I was a US med student and I did pass Step1 within 6 attempts. I am just under ECFMG guidelines.

what would you do if you were in my situation?

on.

Aren't you barred from practicing medicine in most states now though?

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

Aren't you barred from practicing medicine in most states now though?

I have a question, can this patient practice in Europe or a foreign country?
I am sorry to hear this, I thought the hard part of medical school was getting in, however, that is just the beginning.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Can you use an MD for research or hospital administration or something without passing boards?

 

[deleted480308]

Can you use an MD for research or hospital administration or something without passing boards?

Yes...to a point

 

[ChrisMack390]

Yes...to a point

Maybe OP can be one of those alleged doctors who work at insurance companies and tell patients what procedures they aren't allowed to have.

 

[TheWorldWarrior]

I have a question, can this patient practice in Europe or a foreign country?
I am sorry to hear this, I thought the hard part of medical school was getting in, however, that is just the beginning.

Yes, they can, I think. However, they would also need to fulfill all licensing requirements to do so e.g. other nation's versions of the USMLE etc. I do not know about the applications though or how difficult it would be to do this and how those institutions would look at the individual having to take the USMLE multiple times [again, don't know if this is reported or not].

 

[Goro]

I've met plenty of FMGs who were post-docs/research assistants etc.

Can you use an MD for research or hospital administration or something without passing boards?

 

[F14]

Well,
The old saying,
When a door get's shut, a better one soon opens.

Perhaps being a physician is really not in your future, and infact, they really might have done you a favor ?
Just a thought.
here is a plan B
Were you contemplating becoming a surgeon?...... well you must like working with your hands and tools.
Check out your local Electrical Utility . Most have apprenticeship programs that "pay" you to go to school and do field work.
usually a four year program.
On the West Coast, some of our students are already past $ 85K
Upon completion of the program, they earn past 100k
Yes you get dirty, sometime lots of overtime pay, but if you work safe - you'll do well.......... 150 - 180 k

The electrical classes you took in physics should give you a jump start in your studies.

You have to take an entrance exam, then wait, wait and wait.
The library has ARCO books to help out.

Becoming a physician is a Noble profession that constantly asks , " What can I do to make your life better?"

You can still do that in the High Voltage Department,
you'll have More off hour time to work the food banks, and show that compassion.

Read the printed works of Peter Cooper.

 

[TheWorldWarrior]

Well,
The old saying,
When a door get's shut, a better one soon opens.

Perhaps being a physician is really not in your future, and infact, they really might have done you a favor ?
Just a thought.
here is a plan B
Were you contemplating becoming a surgeon?...... well you must like working with your hands and tools.
Check out your local Electrical Utility . Most have apprenticeship programs that "pay" you to go to school and do field work.
usually a four year program.
On the West Coast, some of our students are already past $ 85K
Upon completion of the program, they earn past 100k
Yes you get dirty, sometime lots of overtime pay, but if you work safe - you'll do well.......... 150 - 180 k

The electrical classes you took in physics should give you a jump start in your studies.

You have to take an entrance exam, then wait, wait and wait.
The library has ARCO books to help out.

Becoming a physician is a Noble profession that constantly asks , " What can I do to make your life better?"

You can still do that in the High Voltage Department,
you'll have More off hour time to work the food banks, and show that compassion.

Read the printed works of Peter Cooper.

No.

 

[gyngyn]

I have a student who never finished internship and apparently practices in Africa somewhere.

 

[moisne]

MD has 98% first time pass rate and 91% retake pass rate...

You failed it THREE times? I'm sorry that happened... but you should reconsider your career choices... :/

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I just got a letter from the state of Iowa. They have a 6 attempt limit on Step1. I passed the 5th time. They have a combined 6 attempt limit on step2cs and Ck combined. I passed cs the first time and ck I failed4 times. Technically I have one more attempt left


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[DoctHouse]

I just got a letter from the state of Iowa. They have a 6 attempt limit on Step1. I passed the 5th time. They have a combined 6 attempt limit on step2cs and Ck combined. I passed cs the first time and ck I failed4 times. Technically I have one more attempt left


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

That's wonderful. Tell us how it goes! Don't take this chance for granted.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I just got a letter from the state of Iowa. They have a 6 attempt limit on Step1. I passed the 5th time. They have a combined 6 attempt limit on step2cs and Ck combined. I passed cs the first time and ck I failed4 times. Technically I have one more attempt left


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You've said you maxed out your loan amounts. Where will you get the funds to pay another med school for the chance to take a test? After all, it sounds like you couldn't be emfcg certified, so you couldn't enter the match. Then you have so far one state saying you have a chance at a license. That's betting a bunch of money on something with terrible odds. It's really time to move on.

 

[deleted547631]

I just got a letter from the state of Iowa. They have a 6 attempt limit on Step1. I passed the 5th time. They have a combined 6 attempt limit on step2cs and Ck combined. I passed cs the first time and ck I failed4 times. Technically I have one more attempt left


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Good job on passing Step 1. However, with so many attempts I do wonder whether you'd ever get a residency spot.

 

[futurexray]

DO schools have similar boards called COMLEX. DO students must take COMLEX 1 after 2nd year before rotations, then COMLEX 2-CE and COMLEX 2-PE. They're allowed 3 tries on each test. 3rd fail is dismissal - no DO degree.

Most DO students study for both USMLE and COMLEX - they usually take them within the same week or so, because the material is the same except for OMM. (DO schools use the same textbooks and study guides as MD schools - except for the OMM class).

As far as transfers (aka "admission in advanced standing" to 3rd year), DO schools rarely allow transfers, and they typically have a policy against admitting students who have been dismissed from other schools.

Also without the OMM component from the first two years you would not be able to transfer from an MD school.

 

[Chrisabonilla]

Hi there, I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. Any update?

 

[PiggyPug6]

obtaining old AMCAS confidential letters of recommendation

This is her most recent post.

 

[kumagee]

This is just a horror story, but my school dismissed me because I did not pass the USMLE Step 2 exam on my 3rd attempt. The school requires its students pass Step 2 to be awarded the MD degree, and has as its policy a 3-Attempts Rule. So, despite my completing and passing all my required classes and rotations and in-school exams (several in which I received an Honors grade), my school dismissed me per this horrific policy of theirs.

I checked the USMLE site and they say they recommend six attempts per USMLE Step exam. My school limits it to three, and I found out that most med schools have no such policy in place at all! I contacted a USMLE rep and he says that it's the medical school that sets the final policy, that their's (USMLE) is merely a suggestion. I should add that on each of my repeat attempts on the test I got progressively closer to passing, so that on my last time taking the exam I missed passing by 1% !

So I guess I need to know what recourse I have? One of my school's deans met with me to discuss my options but they were basically: apply to med schools in Europe, or off-shore. But there has to be some other option other than repeat it all over again. Should I speak to an attorney about this? It's infuriating that I'm being denied what I have strived so long to achieve when, had I chosen my 2nd choice med school (U of Illinois), I would not be in this situation as they have no such graduation policy. My wife graduated Georgetown Med School and they had no policy such as this either.

I am going to do my second attempt of USMLE 2... tensed up. Any idea of how many attempts are allowed by AUC ?

 

[moisne]

This is her most recent post.

Wow...

Here I am ,... sitting here worried that I won't match into my top 10 program because I'm in the 4th quartile due to all passes - now I realize, I'll probably be ok (especially when comparing myself to someone who started med school in 25 years ago and is still trying to get into residency w/ 500 k debt - which i'm sure is close to a million with interest by now).

 

[moisne]

what would you do if you were in my situation?

To be honest, if I were really in your shoes... I'd buy a ticket and fly to another country and create a new identity and start over. Maybe be a nurse. Or if you can get a new identity in the US...

Your situation sounds like an absolute nightmare - it can't be real...