Plastic Surgery for D.O. s

[doctorperez]

Hi


I have been going through old threads of what seems to be allopathic plastic surgery residencies. Can anyone shed some light as to how it works for D.O. who wish to specilaize in this area? is the integrated option available to D.O.s right off med school as well? Thanks.

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[droliver]

There are very few oppurtunities for DO's to do osteopathic plastic surgery training programs. There just aren't very many programs & many of the traditional large sources of patients to learn on (VAMC's, large urban indigent teaching hospitals, Level I trauma centers, large pediatric hospitals) are not available to DO's in a training setting. I've met one DO who was doing a hand fellowship here @ the Kleinert Institute who had an osteopathic position he was to start after he finished. He told me how very few positions exist for osteopaths. For the most part, I do not think many allopathic programs would consider osteopathic trained candidates unless they had super-extraordinary CV's. I imagine that the integrated programs are out of reach realistically unless the # of positions increases a lot (which does not seem to be happening) @ THIS point in time. There are however many examples of DO's matching in competative allopathic programs in other specialties & I expect it will happen @ some point for PRS for some very qualified applicants.

If that is your goal, I would try to match @ the best general surgery program (allopathic) that you can knowing that you'll have to exceed your allopathic peers on your ABSITE exam, references, & research project to overcome some of the MD v. DO preference that will exist

 

[doctorperez]

Hi droliver


First, Thank you very much for replying.
Let me ask you, why do you imagine the integrated path is out of reach realistically for DOs unless the # of positions increases a lot . I could understand the rest you exposed but this I have a hard time grasping.


Kindly confirm if you feel your opinion is current, I did a search online for "plastic surgery D.O." and filled my favorites folder with at least 20 pages of D.O. plastic surgeons. Of these about 9 where hand plastic surgeons but there were some other in other areas. It did not seem from this search that DOs would not be entering this field in substantial and proportional numbers. What should we attribute this to? thanks in advance.

 

[maxheadroom]

docperez,

As a newly matched integrated plastics resident (starting in a couple of weeks), I'll confirm Ollie's info. I met one DO student on the interview trail this year. He had rotated at 5 or 6 plastics programs during his fourth year. Out of those programs, he only had a few interviews (at least one place where he rotated didn't grant an interview). I think that most plastics chairmen/PDs are so inundated with outstanding MD applicants that they just don't consider DO applicants. The numbers for the integrated plastics match this year were phenomenal. Somewhere around 275 applicants for ~75 spots. Ollie is right; find the best possible GenSurg residency and work your tail off if you really want plastics. There's still plenty of great plastics programs available for the fellowship-type position. Rotate at maybe one plastics program, but then rotate at a couple of very good GenSurg programs that are known to be DO friendly. Also, consider a hand or burn fellowship after finishing GenSurg if you don't get in during the first round of PRS. You see lots of GenSurg people doing a year of hand or burn and then moving into their PRS training. Long road, but worth it if that's what you want. Good luck.

 

[doctorperez]

Great replies


Max , what are MD students bringing to the table that DO students may be lacking. I ask in view of the fact that they are so well prepared that most plastics chairmen/PDs just don't consider most DO applicants. Thanks.

 

[maxheadroom]

MD applicants bring the MD degree, which is really no better. Unfortunately, the DO degree just isn't repected enough by academic plastic surgeons to get a DO student serious interviews. You have to realize that the majority of integrated plastics residents are superstars. AOA, top 10% of their class, good research with possible publications, stellar Step 1 (usually well over 230), kick-ass letters from important people in the field. While this doesn't describe me (call me a fortunate anomaly), this is the description of the vast majority of integrated plastics residents.

 

[doctorperez]

Thank you max. I see the letter AOA used in various allopathic forums. It is not the same AOA for osteopaths right? what does it stand for? excuse my ignorance. Thanks.

 

[Foxxy Cleopatra]

Originally posted by doctorperez
Thank you max. I see the letter AOA used in various allopathic forums. It is not the same AOA for osteopaths right? what does it stand for? excuse my ignorance. Thanks.

You are right- AOA stands for different things. AOA= American Osteopathic Association.

It also stands for Alpha Omega Alpha, which is an honor society that invites medical students typically in the top 10% of their class. Junior AOA is usually given to a few of the very best students- those in particularly strong standing that are invited to join during junior year. Senior AOA usually accepts a few more individuals sometime during the middle of their senior year. Criteria for invitation usually includes high board scores, class rank, and classroom/community involvement. How much it matters in residency selection is contraversial, though it certainly does not hurt.

I honestly do not know if AOA (the honor society) exists in osteopathic schools- can someone back me up on this?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Alpha Omega Alpha does not exist at the osteopathic schools. The DOs have their own version of AOA, represented by three other Greek letters, but I'm at a lost as to exactly what they are. I think there's a "Sigma" in there somewhere. I dunno.

For some reason the DO version of AOA is never talked about nor even mentioned as a "prereq" for certain types of residencies on SDN.

 

[maxheadroom]

While AOA membership in some fields isn't all that important, for fields like derm, PRS, and NeuroSurg it can be vital. Most plastics programs screen for AOA with Step 1 > 230. While those requirements aren't always necessary, those are the signs of a realistic PRS applicant. I didn't meet either criteria, but had an academic chairman who backed me well.

 

[droliver]

Originally posted by doctorperez
Hi droliver
Let me ask you, why do you imagine the integrated path is out of reach realistically for DOs unless the # of positions increases a lot . I could understand the rest you exposed but this I have a hard time grasping.

Like what's been mentioned.... for the most competative allopathic positions, its unrealistic (though not unprecedented) to expect to get a spot in them from an osteopathic background. The competition from MD candidates is just too stiff for many of these programs to feel they need to consider Osteopaths, FMG's, or IMG's unless they have some extraordinary CV or background. This is exagerated with Plastic Surgery or Derm due to the few spots with the allopathic applicant:spot ratio hovering at 3:1 or more for those spots

 

[zpdoc]

Originally posted by maxheadroom
While AOA membership in some fields isn't all that important, for fields like derm, PRS, and NeuroSurg it can be vital. Most plastics programs screen for AOA with Step 1 > 230. While those requirements aren't always necessary, those are the signs of a realistic PRS applicant. I didn't meet either criteria, but had an academic chairman who backed me well.

,
Thanks for all the great info you guys have been giving on this thread, and I would appreciate any comments on my situation:

As a 3rd year transfer student, I feel pretty shaky about my chances for getting into AOA. Also, I was just handed my 3rd year schedule yesterday, and I'll be starting surgery first. This probably isn't the right place to ask, but is it much harder to honor surg when it's your first rotation? Also, I'm just coming off of a research year which I did for a Howard Hughes program.

If I don't honor surg and don't get AOA, should I consider PRS out of my reach? I got pretty high board score (249/99), and honored most of my pre-clinical classes at my original school, but I want to be realistic about my chances.

Thanks in advance.

 

[maxheadroom]

Most graders know that an M3's first rotation will be rocky. You'll make dumb mistakes and they recognize that it's your first real clinical experience. Study your ass off for the Surgery shelf exam. While it's better to have medicine before surgery (lots of medicine comes up in the surgery test), if you hit PreTest hard, read Surgical Recall, and study some other surgery exam aids, you should be able to do well. Don't be discouraged if you don't get AOA. I didn't and I matched into a good integrated program. You should start talking to your PRS chair about what you should be doing to position yourself to match in plastics.

While we say, "you need to be AOA, step 1 >230, published, etc", those aren't hard and fast rules. They're simply guidelines to tell you that you're in reasonable position as an applicant. Every year lots of people with great credentials don't match because they don't "fit" or their true personality rears its ugly head during interviews (I excel at convincing people that I'm a nice guy; later they learn the truth).

Good luck. Feel free to PM with questions.

 

[doctorperez]

Originally posted by maxheadroom
(I excel at convincing people that I'm a nice guy; later they learn the truth).

LOL , now that has to be an art!...

 

[LRHMed7]

I see that this thread is from years ago but am looking at the same questions now. Ideally I want to go plastics but I am currently in a masters program applying to MD and DO schools. Are the chances higher in 2016 than they were when this thread began for a DO to go into plastics?

 

[ram006]

I see that this thread is from years ago but am looking at the same questions now. Ideally I want to go plastics but I am currently in a masters program applying to MD and DO schools. Are the chances higher in 2016 than they were when this thread began for a DO to go into plastics?

Better, still not great. I believe I only met one osteopath last year on the trail but they did match at a respectable program. I would not expect to match at Harvard, Penn, Pitt, etc. but there are DOs who have successfully pursued plastics recently.

 

[caffeinemia]

Hi


I have been going through old threads of what seems to be allopathic plastic surgery residencies. Can anyone shed some light as to how it works for D.O. who wish to specilaize in this area? is the integrated option available to D.O.s right off med school as well? Thanks.

I know one - he graduated from residency in the 90s. I would say... you have <1% chance of integrated plastics. Just being honest. You might be able do plastics fellowship if you do gen surg and then find a less coveted fellowship spot.