PhD to MD taking a break from post-doc for clinical experience?

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minnymito

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Hey everyone,
I am a current post-doc. I finished my PhD in 2015 (biochemistry) and applied this cycle MD schools as soon as the applications opened. MCAT 514 GPA 3.98, publications 20 including 5 first author. But I still have not received any II. I am guessing at this point I need to make a plan B. I think one weakness may have been limited shadowing clinical experience. I really only have shadowing about 80 hrs.
Would it hurt my chances next year if I take a year off post-doc/research to take one undergrad pre-req I am missing and use the time to do get in some solid clinical experience? I ask this because my app is based on my want to combine research with clinical practice?
Any help would be great!

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The optimal number of shadowing hours is 50+, so 80 is more than plenty. What were your clinical experiences outside of shadowing (i.e. any clinical volunteering, and if so how long + how many hours)?

Also, do you have any nonclinical/community volunteering experiences?

These two are critical factors (more so than shadowing). Additionally, what schools did you apply (a bad school list of reaches or low yields may have hurt)?
 
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The optimal number of shadowing hours is 50+, so 80 is more than plenty. What were your clinical experiences outside of shadowing (i.e. any clinical volunteering, and if so how long + how many hours)?

Also, do you have any nonclinical/community volunteering experiences?

These two are critical factors (more so than shadowing). Additionally, what schools did you apply (a bad school list of reaches or low yields may have hurt)?
I do have volunteering experience nursing home volunteer, student government body, tutoring - but these were from college - 2005-2009. More recent is mentoring a research student (2014) and humane society (20012-2013).
I was limited in the schools I could apply to due to constraints on spouse's job. But at my current post-doc institution, which is obviously research heavy my stats are above the matriculating students. I applied to only 1 school that would be considered reach.
Either ways I was hoping to take some time to do some do clinical volunteering... there is a intern position as a scribe at a volunteer clinic I have been eyeing. Volunteering at a hospice, volunteering at a crisis hotline. Along with more shadowing in a rural clinic as well as at the schools of my top choice. But I'm worried quitting my post-doc and taking a break from research might negatively affect my chances.
 
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I do have volunteering experience nursing home volunteer, student government body, tutoring - but these were from college - 2005-2009. More recent is mentoring a research student (2014) and humane society (20012-2013).
I was limited in the schools I could apply to due to constraints on spouse's job. But at my current post-doc institution, which is obviously research heavy my stats are above the matriculating students. I applied to only 1 school that would be considered reach.
Either ways I was hoping to take some time to do some do clinical volunteering... there is a intern position as a scribe at a volunteer clinic I have been eyeing. Volunteering at a hospice, volunteering at a crisis hotline. Along with more shadowing in a rural clinic as well as at the schools of my top choice. But I'm worried quitting my post-doc and taking a break from research might negatively affect my chances.
The optimal number of shadowing hours is 50+, so 80 is more than plenty. What were your clinical experiences outside of shadowing (i.e. any clinical volunteering, and if so how long + how many hours)?

Also, do you have any nonclinical/community volunteering experiences?

These two are critical factors (more so than shadowing). Additionally, what schools did you apply (a bad school list of reaches or low yields may have hurt)?
Also I currently have no clinical volunteering experience.
 
What was your school list?
And how were the written portions of your application?

I dont think clinical volunteering is a complete necessity as many else on the board seem to think (though it always helps)
 
I do have volunteering experience nursing home volunteer, student government body, tutoring - but these were from college - 2005-2009. More recent is mentoring a research student (2014) and humane society (20012-2013).
I was limited in the schools I could apply to due to constraints on spouse's job. But at my current post-doc institution, which is obviously research heavy my stats are above the matriculating students. I applied to only 1 school that would be considered reach.
Either ways I was hoping to take some time to do some do clinical volunteering... there is a intern position as a scribe at a volunteer clinic I have been eyeing. Volunteering at a hospice, volunteering at a crisis hotline. Along with more shadowing in a rural clinic as well as at the schools of my top choice. But I'm worried quitting my post-doc and taking a break from research might negatively affect my chances.
Also I currently have no clinical volunteering experience.
What was your school list?
And how were the written portions of your application?

I dont think clinical volunteering is a complete necessity as many else on the board seem to think (though it always helps)

From what I see above, I don't see any clinical experience (including paid clinical jobs like EMT, scribing etc.). This is sadly lethal and the key limiting factor. The nonclinical volunteering at human society and nursing home were too long ago, so it'd help to have some more current experiences. It also doesn't help that OP was restricted in the schools she can apply, since even with good research + good stats, a fairly large list (about ~20-25 schools) is usually recommended.

OP, try to get clinical volunteering in ASAP, so hospice, rural clinic, crisis hotline etc. are fine.

I do have a question if you don't mind: why are you quitting your postdoc to focus on clinical volunteering? What factors are holding you back? You can volunteer once per week over the weekends if possible. But if you have to quit the postdoc and take a break from research, this may have a slight impact when you reapply regarding breaking commitments, but I have to defer this to the adcoms more familiar with this: @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @gonnif
 
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gonnif is right postdoc is more a year to year position. The reason I am thinking of taking a break is because postdocs are not 9-5, I put in considerable hours and the schedule is variable. If I were doing just volunteering this would be fine, but since I also want to take an undergrad class Im not sure I could fit this all in.
 
What was your school list?
And how were the written portions of your application?

I dont think clinical volunteering is a complete necessity as many else on the board seem to think (though it always helps)
Schools were
UNC
ECU Brody
Duke
Wake Forest
VCU
Baylor
USC Columbia
USC Greenville
But my target schools are in North Carolina.

I thought I had a strong personal statement, took time to write it and had it edited many times. I'm really not sure where my app has gone wrong.
 
This is one of those rare occasions that I must disagree with my learned colleague. I view Post-doc positions as analogous to what residency is for physicians: a place where you hone your craft and really learn how to be a scientist. While I'm fully aware that in order to be a successful post-doc, one can't work mere banker's hours, but if you have to work > 60 hrs /week, then something is wrong with your science.

As such, you should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and not interrupt your post-doc. What I worry about is the view that you don't start what you finish.

And teaching moment, post-doc positions are three-five year positions, depending upon the PI's funding. And no, I'm not too far removed from when I was a post-doc. I have good friends who are PIs and I know what goes on in their labs.

I have a suspicion that OP's app was too focused on research, leading Adcoms to wonder "why don't they just stay in research"? Applying to Baylor was a donation.


others will have more experience in answering this, but many postdoc positions are not so much continuation of training (unlike a medical fellowship) but more of a straight research employee (more like a short term attending physician contract from a recently completed residency). Unlike leaving before completing a graduate program, leaving a postdoc shouldnt be any impact to medical school application other than obvious shift in motivation and direction
 
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Schools were
UNC
ECU Brody
Duke
Wake Forest
VCU
Baylor
USC Columbia
USC Greenville
But my target schools are in North Carolina.

I thought I had a strong personal statement, took time to write it and had it edited many times. I'm really not sure where my app has gone wrong.
I honestly dont see anyway how all these schools would turn you away unless you didnt really convince them in your ECs/writing. With someone having your background, it would be really easy to question "why dont they just stay in research" unless they have made the effort to pursuing substantial clinical exposure.

I'm just speculating here though.
 
Schools were
UNC
ECU Brody
Duke
Wake Forest
VCU
Baylor
USC Columbia
USC Greenville
But my target schools are in North Carolina.

I thought I had a strong personal statement, took time to write it and had it edited many times. I'm really not sure where my app has gone wrong.

This is a tricky road to navigate. I have seen my share of applications from PhD research-types, and there is a tendency for them to come off as somewhat self-centered. By that I mean that after eating and drinking research for years they look at an MD degree as a utilitarian ticket to more grant funding opportunities. Your application needs to explain why a medical school should give a seat to you, which means providing a clear and compelling justification for spending 4-11 years of your life (and a whole lotta $$$) becoming a physician.
 
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idk if anyone has said this yet, but you might look into vanderbilt. i know they are expanding their phd-> md track for next year
 
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To follow up on my learned colleague's wise words, OP needs to show that s/he's running TO Medicine, and not merely running AWAY from research. It's OK to have a change of heart when going down one career path, but one has to walk the walk, and not merely talk the talk.




This is a tricky road to navigate. I have seen my share of applications from PhD research-types, and there is a tendency for them to come off as somewhat self-centered. By that I mean that after eating and drinking research for years they look at an MD degree as a utilitarian ticket to more grant funding opportunities. Your application needs to explain why a medical school should give a seat to you, which means providing a clear and compelling justification for spending 4-11 years of your life (and a whole lotta $$$) becoming a physician.
 
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Reactions: 1 user
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Just as an update...I ended up getting waitlisted at UNC. This time around I shadowed a primary care in rural setting, internal medicine in rural community hospital and a cardiologist. I've been volunteering at a crisis hot line, doing some health outreach stuff, volunteered abroad. I am continuing my postdoc. Havent heard from anywhere this cycle yet. Refocused my application to not have a bog focus on research. If i get no interviews in a couple of months would your advice be to get a more clinical job like scribing before re-applying next year?
 
Just as an update...I ended up getting waitlisted at UNC. This time around I shadowed a primary care in rural setting, internal medicine in rural community hospital and a cardiologist. I've been volunteering at a crisis hot line, doing some health outreach stuff, volunteered abroad. I am continuing my postdoc. Havent heard from anywhere this cycle yet. Refocused my application to not have a bog focus on research. If i get no interviews in a couple of months would your advice be to get a more clinical job like scribing before re-applying next year?
Was this your only interview?
You don't need more shadowing. 80 hours is more than enough (as long as there was some primary care).
 
Just as an update...I ended up getting waitlisted at UNC. This time around I shadowed a primary care in rural setting, internal medicine in rural community hospital and a cardiologist. I've been volunteering at a crisis hot line, doing some health outreach stuff, volunteered abroad. I am continuing my postdoc. Havent heard from anywhere this cycle yet. Refocused my application to not have a bog focus on research. If i get no interviews in a couple of months would your advice be to get a more clinical job like scribing before re-applying next year?

What is your current school list?
 
With a strategic list and a bit more clinical experience (not shadowing) you should be fine.
Mock interviews and a review of your PS and secondary responses might be a good idea.
What was your undergraduate gpa?
3.98.
Current list
ECU Brody
UNC
Duke
Wake forest
VCU
UAB
UVa
Vanderbilt
Cleveland Clinic
Dartmouth Med School
 
With a strategic list and a bit more clinical experience (not shadowing) you should be fine.
Mock interviews and a review of your PS and secondary responses might be a good idea.
What was your undergraduate gpa?
What other kind of clinical experience would you suggest. I volunteer crisis hotline, do a little bit scribe volunteering, and also help nurses at a nursing home. I would love any ideas.
 
I would probably recommend adding a few more schools where you are not a reapplicant. With stats as high as yours, I think the general consensus on SDN is that many schools will ask themselves why you didn't get in the first time (i.e. schools you applied to previously asking why another school didn't scoop you up). I may be barking up the wrong tree however, especially since it seems clear that lack of clinical experience was the limiting factor.

And for what its worth, I was also waitlisted at UNC last cycle. Such a crappy feeling... we were so close yet so far haha
 
North Carolina
I suggest applying more broadly to at least 20 schools and consider any of these where you could receive interviews with your stats:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Eastern Virginia
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Oakland Beaumont
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Miami
 
I suggest applying more broadly to at least 20 schools and consider any of these where you could receive interviews with your stats:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Eastern Virginia
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Oakland Beaumont
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Miami
Thanks Faha, for next year I'm definitely adding more schools. I'm of the impression that it is too late to add schools right now, so is it better I wait till next year so Im not a re-applicant at these places?
 
Thanks Faha, for next year I'm definitely adding more schools. I'm of the impression that it is too late to add schools right now, so is it better I wait till next year so Im not a re-applicant at these places?
You should add many more schools this week in order to increase your chances for
Thanks Faha, for next year I'm definitely adding more schools. I'm of the impression that it is too late to add schools right now, so is it better I wait till next year so Im not a re-applicant at these places?
You should add many more schools this week so you can increase your chances for more interviews. Submit the secondaries by early September.
 
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