Pharmacy Manpower Project makes state-specific PDIs available

[PAtoPharm]

The Pharmacy Manpower Project has finally created a map that displays state-specific PDI info so you can gauge the most recently-assessed level of pharmacist demand in your state:

PDI

Interestingly, GA is now almost just as saturated as FL. Also, AL, which had a PDI value of ~4.0 less than a year ago, now has a PDI of only 3.33. At this rate, AL will see its PDI drop to a sub-3.0 value like GA, FL, and NC within 6-12 months.

I also noticed that SC and TN have PDI values of only 3.0, which indicates they are teetering on the brink of saturation. Most likely, those states, too, will be saturated (I.e., have sub-3.0 values) when the next PDI study is done this summer.

Surprisingly enough, even a few of the "fall-back" states (e.g., ND, WY, MT) now have PDIs that are also dangerously close to falling into saturation/sub-3.0 territory. By the time the pharmacy school classes of 2018 enter the job market, there will be very few (maybe no?) states that won't be saturated, at least according to this metric.

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[Sine Cura]

I would be interested to know what the SEs (i.e., n) is on these estimates are

 

[gwarm01]

Good to see Alaska is still waiting.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I would be interested to know what the SEs (i.e., n) is on these estimates are

Good question; I believe they calculate these values based on responses received to surveys completed by DMs and other professionals involved in the hiring of pharmacists, although I'm not sure how many DMs per region/state they solicit input from.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Good to see Alaska is still waiting.

Ironically, I was just reading about how companies that have mining businesses in Alaska and Canada hire geological engineers to fly in to work at mining camps for several weeks and then fly back out. It would be nice if pharmacists could be hired to work according to a similar arrangement, but even with Alaska still having a relatively healthy level of demand, I know that would never happen.

 

[magicgradstudent]

Better then I thought.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Better then I thought.

... Seriously? At least half the country is at or near a state of job market saturation. What were you expecting to see?

 

[gwarm01]

... Seriously? At least half the country is at or near a state of job market saturation. What were you expecting to see?

To be fair, the national trend has showed a slight bump over this time last year. Many states have either held steady or had a very slight bump in demand (but not Georgia, as you mentioned). When the previous year was basically a freefall, to see that slow or improve at all could be considered a positive surprise. I'm afraid it's just another small bump and the overall trend will continue.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

It's had state numbers for years now.

 

[gwarm01]

It's had state numbers for years now.

They revamped the site a few months ago and didn't have that information ready for some reason.

 

[PAtoPharm]

To be fair, the national trend has showed a slight bump over this time last year. Many states have either held steady or had a very slight bump in demand (but not Georgia, as you mentioned). When the previous year was basically a freefall, to see that slow or improve at all could be considered a positive surprise. I'm afraid it's just another small bump and the overall trend will continue.

In that case (that the general uptick in demand is just a transient one), then once the overall downward trend is re-established, it will probably be even steeper than it was before since states like GA, NV, MT, etc. will now be included as "saturated" states with all the others (not to mention any other states that will have transitioned into saturated territory by the time the next study is performed -- AL is definitely heading that way, along with a handful of others). The only solution is to continue opening more schools and deny that there is a saturation in the first place, and/or say that even if there is a saturation, it's a good thing because it will force pharmacists to be creative when it comes to carving out their own "niches" and creating their own opportunities.

 

[moose10]

Perhaps your next career field will be in statistics, and you can work for the Dept of Labor and tell everyone how screwed they are, all day, every day! You could make these maps and maybe even layer in more fun interactive features.

 

[owlegrad]

Perhaps your next career field will be in statistics, and you can work for the Dept of Labor and tell everyone how screwed they are, all day, every day! You could make these maps and maybe even layer in more fun interactive features.

I think you are on to something. Why stop with just showing demand, why not layer in the cost of living to really drive home how screwed people in big cities are? Maybe color code At-Will states with a quick reminder of how easily you can be fired at any time?

You could also make fun icons like red X's for places that are pretty bad and have scull and cross bones for the REALLY bad places. For places that appear to have some demand you could make a disclaimer like "No one wants to live here and any appearance of demand should be taken as a sign of caution"?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Perhaps your next career field will be in statistics, and you can work for the Dept of Labor and tell everyone how screwed they are, all day, every day! You could make these maps and maybe even layer in more fun interactive features.

Sure, but what difference will it make if the reality of the job market is that everyone really is screwed? In other words, people can lob insults my way in retaliation for me posting links to these various studies, but if these studies really are objectively legitimate, then it doesn't make any difference if it's me or anyone else posting them.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I think you are on to something. Why stop with just showing demand, why not layer in the cost of living to really drive home how screwed people in big cities are? Maybe color code At-Will states with a quick reminder of how easily you can be fired at any time?

You could also make fun icons like red X's for places that are pretty bad and have scull and cross bones for the REALLY bad places. For places that appear to have some demand you could make a disclaimer like "No one wants to live here and any appearance of demand should be taken as a sign of caution"?

It's not necessary to include a cost of living factor since it is virtually impossible to find a pharmacist job in any big cities (in fact, it's getting to be that way in medium-sized cities as well). It could be a good idea to implement the ideas you mentioned in regards to labeling especially undesirable areas, but by the time they'd actually be implemented, those areas will be saturated as well. You might remember that just a month or two ago, I remarked on how I wouldn't be willing to move to a BFE town in Alabama to find a job out of school (or at any point in my career, for that matter), and a few people said that the BFE AL towns didn't seem like they'd be so bad since a few of them are only an hour or two away from the beach. At the time, AL's state-specific PDI was close to a 4.0; now, according to the map, it's only a 3.33. If AL's PDI continues to decrease at rate it's been decreasing by every few months, then by this summer or early next fall, it will officially be saturated, just like GA, FL, and NC (and soon, along with SC and TN, which both have PDIs of 3.0).

 

[quickpic007]

Ironically, I was just reading about how companies that have mining businesses in Alaska and Canada hire geological engineers to fly in to work at mining camps for several weeks and then fly back out. It would be nice if pharmacists could be hired to work according to a similar arrangement, but even with Alaska still having a relatively healthy level of demand, I know that would never happen.

Fly in fly out is still very possible in much of healthcare with 7/7 schedule including RX. You'll pay your own ticket of course. I had a chance to do this but the raise was not high enough.

 

[BenJammin]

Until they release their methodology, the Pharmacy Manpower Project is not to be taken seriously.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Fly in fly out is still very possible in much of healthcare with 7/7 schedule including RX. You'll pay your own ticket of course. I had a chance to do this but the raise was not high enough.

Just out of curiosity, approximately how much were they offering you in terms of salary, if you don't mind me asking? Was it to fly in/fly out to/from Alaska?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Until they release their methodology, the Pharmacy Manpower Project is not to be taken seriously.

Even if the results are a bit "off" from the reality of the job market, how far off could they honestly be? If anything, isn't the job market likely to be even worse-off than their results suggest, especially since it's in their best interests to report favorable study outcomes?

 

[quickpic007]

Just out of curiosity, approximately how much were they offering you in terms of salary, if you don't mind me asking? Was it to fly in/fly out to/from Alaska?

149k/yr before bonus, 40 hr wk manager. Some OT avail at that location. Middle of the country, USA. Often refer to on here as BFE. Plane ticket was cheap too like 160 round trip. If it was in Cali/was able to get 1.5x or 2x for OT I would have taken.

 

[PAtoPharm]

149k/yr before bonus, 40 hr wk manager. Some OT avail at that location. Middle of the country, USA. Often refer to on here as BFE. Plane ticket was cheap too like 160 round trip. If it was in Cali/was able to get 1.5x or 2x for OT I would have taken.

Doesn't sound like a bad deal, aside from the BFE part. So it was a permanent, FT job? Or were they paying you to fly in and work for "X" number of weeks, and then you'd have "Y" number of weeks off?

 

[quickpic007]

Doesn't sound like a bad deal, aside from the BFE part. So it was a permanent, FT job? Or were they paying you to fly in and work for "X" number of weeks, and then you'd have "Y" number of weeks off?

Permanent FT. See RX is great! JOKE

 

[PAtoPharm]

Permanent FT. See RX is great! JOKE

So it wouldn't actually be a fly in/fly out deal at all, unless you choose to go out of your way to spend your own money/PTO to literally fly out at random times. Forget that!

 

[steveysmith54]

Until they release their methodology, the Pharmacy Manpower Project is not to be taken seriously.

I agree. Also, I think a lot of people who are not yet in the profession don't even realize that despite holding a pharmacist license, they are not qualified for a lot of jobs. In most regions of the country, an amb care, inpatient, managed care is a pipe dream without a residency

 

[Apples2Oranges]

It's not necessary to include a cost of living factor since it is virtually impossible to find a pharmacist job in any big cities (in fact, it's getting to be that way in medium-sized cities as well). It could be a good idea to implement the ideas you mentioned in regards to labeling especially undesirable areas, but by the time they'd actually be implemented, those areas will be saturated as well. You might remember that just a month or two ago, I remarked on how I wouldn't be willing to move to a BFE town in Alabama to find a job out of school (or at any point in my career, for that matter), and a few people said that the BFE AL towns didn't seem like they'd be so bad since a few of them are only an hour or two away from the beach. At the time, AL's state-specific PDI was close to a 4.0; now, according to the map, it's only a 3.33. If AL's PDI continues to decrease at rate it's been decreasing by every few months, then by this summer or early next fall, it will officially be saturated, just like GA, FL, and NC (and soon, along with SC and TN, which both have PDIs of 3.0).

You realize the recommendation was sarcasm, no? And saying that including the COL is unnecessary b/c the market is saturated is like saying you're not going include a warning label on a biohazard box because no one is going to read it. Or saying you're not going to put a stop sign at an intersection because not enough people drive there.

Take some hints from your other forum post and go do something with your life rather than complain about a profession you haven't even finished. Or do something else.

 

[PAtoPharm]

You realize the recommendation was sarcasm, no? And saying that including the COL is unnecessary b/c the market is saturated is like saying you're not going include a warning label on a biohazard box because no one is going to read it. Or saying you're not going to put a stop sign at an intersection because not enough people drive there.

Take some hints from your other forum post and go do something with your life rather than complain about a profession you haven't even finished. Or do something else.

Of course I know that they were just being sarcastic with their post. My point was to show that their sarcasm falls flat when someone considers that as a matter of fact and because the job market is so bad (and getting worse), even if they were being serious, the factors they remarked on would be largely irrelevant.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

Of course I know that they were just being sarcastic with their post. My point was to show that their sarcasm falls flat when someone considers that as a matter of fact and because the job market is so bad (and getting worse), even if they were being serious, the factors they remarked on would be largely irrelevant.

Anyone can really google these stats and information, but the values can vary greatly with a margin of error, even though it may not be much. Come back when you provide further info and evidence. Let us know when you found something original.

It also says CA is 3.5 while some Midwestern and East Coast states are 2.5-2.8. That is pretty much a contradiction to the amount of arguments about total saturation in CA. As anyone has read on this forum, CA=no jobs, but it's still ranked higher despite the massive amount of pharm school openings in the state? Hmmm.

In fine print, it also says "Generalists/Staff Pharmacists", so it doesn't account for all pharmacists in a clinical/industrial/etc. setting. Realize that pharmacists with a PharmD is limited to their options without a residency nowadays. While maybe only 30-40% of pharmacists work in these fields, it's still statistically significant to leave them out.

But to summarize all of your arguments from past posts and this one: "PHARMACY IS SATURATED. EVERYONE IS DOOMED. HERE ARE THE SITES THAT SHOW IT. THEY'RE ALL FACTS. YOU'RE BLIND IF YOU DON'T SEE IT. But I don't really know what to do."

 

[gwarm01]

It also says CA is 3.5 while some Midwestern and East Coast states are 2.5-2.8. That is pretty much a contradiction to the amount of arguments about total saturation in CA. As anyone has read on this forum, CA=no jobs, but it's still ranked higher despite the massive amount of pharm school openings in the state? Hmmm.

You could probably explain this whole phenomenon with people who refuse to live anywhere other than the Bay area or Socal.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

You could probably explain this whole phenomenon with people who refuse to live anywhere other than the Bay area or Socal.

their loss

 

[quickpic007]

So it wouldn't actually be a fly in/fly out deal at all, unless you choose to go out of your way to spend your own money/PTO to literally fly out at random times. Forget that!

Yes spend my own money and do 7 on 7 off.

 

[baronzb]

Good question; I believe they calculate these values based on responses received to surveys completed by DMs and other professionals involved in the hiring of pharmacists, although I'm not sure how many DMs per region/state they solicit input from.

This is exactly why this academic survey is so biased...

 

[VA77]

Bumping this thread. This is the statement they now have on their website for state specific data. Must be so bad that they are scared to say. Their numbers were already flawed and dismal so one can only imagine how bad it must really be.
PDI

"The number of panelists reporting data this quarter for analysis was smaller than in previous reporting cycles. The reduced response set of ratings was less than desired for state level analysis and result reporting."