Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

[diastereomerictruthRx]

owlegrad, you seriously don't catch my point? seriously?

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[owlegrad]

owlegrad, you seriously don't catch my point? seriously?

Sorry, what are you referring to?

 

[gwarm01]

Sorry, what are you referring to?

I think he's upset that you liked my post.

 

[angelsplight]

Well I live in the NYS area and the job prospects don't look too well. As of now I still see positions open up, mainly in retail but in give or take 4 years I doubt there will be many positions. Binghamton starts their pharmacy program this year and Stony Brook next year so the already limited positions left in the NY area will fall even more. The opening of pharmacies opening in the area seems to have ceased as of last year so amount of positions will lower as more people graduate each year which is probably more than the amount of pharmacist retiring (Heck the pharmacist in my store is already a grandfather and still working and floating)

 

[baronzb]

Thanks again!
I'm also looking into getting licensed in neighboring states, and definitely keeping my options open. I'm currently asking around about the living environments in different states because I have classmates who went out of state. Hopefully, everything will eventually work out.

I've noticed large discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists, sometimes even out-of-the-area pharmacists. It's almost as if it is a waste of my time applying to those jobs. What has the experience of others been?

 

[TheBlaah]

I've noticed large discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists, sometimes even out-of-the-area pharmacists. It's almost as if it is a waste of my time applying to those jobs. What has the experience of others been?

I agree that there's generally discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists. However, I've found with shifts or locations (evening/night shifts or rural areas) that are harder to fill, that preference tends to go away as they need look through all the applicants they can get.

 

[quickpic007]

I've noticed large discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists, sometimes even out-of-the-area pharmacists. It's almost as if it is a waste of my time applying to those jobs. What has the experience of others been?

My previous DM would throw away out-of-state apps regardless of experience and education. In-company transfers only from out of state. In state was absolutely fine.

 

[radio frequency]

My previous DM would throw away out-of-state apps regardless of experience and education. In-company transfers only from out of state. In state was absolutely fine.

Even if people were already licensed in both states?

 

[gwarm01]

Even if people were already licensed in both states?

That's too bad if so. Is this for a retail pharmacy? I've been flown in for interviews before with hospital work. The automatic shred bin reflex is probably just as dependent on how neurotic the hiring manager is as every other search criteria.

 

[quickpic007]

Even if people were already licensed in both states?

Yep! Kind of harsh but the OT hogs in that district were quite reliable.

That's too bad if so. Is this for a retail pharmacy? I've been flown in for interviews before with hospital work. The automatic shred bin reflex is probably just as dependent on how neurotic the hiring manager is as every other search criteria.

Retail, flyover USA, I think he assumed out of state to be desperate so he just passed on all of them

 

[radio frequency]

Retail, flyover USA, I think he assumed out of state to be desperate so he just passed on all of them

Actually, that makes sense, unless they're also from somewhere "less desirable." Wonder if it's different for more desirable locales.

 

[8turkeys]

Anyone have any experience on what the job market is like in rural areas?

 

[futurefarm]

Just curious, do you guys know what the pharmacy job outlook is like in the Las Vegas/Henderson area? I see that Roseman University is the only pharmacy school in the region, does that mean there will be more opportunities available for employment, especially if you are a Roseman grad? Just curious, would love to start off working in the Vegas area, as it is cheap living and has a lot to do, thanks!

 

[quickpic007]

Anyone have any experience on what the job market is like in rural areas?

depends on the state/area

better than most metro areas.

Just curious, do you guys know what the pharmacy job outlook is like in the Las Vegas/Henderson area? I see that Roseman University is the only pharmacy school in the region, does that mean there will be more opportunities available for employment, especially if you are a Roseman grad? Just curious, would love to start off working in the Vegas area, as it is cheap living and has a lot to do, thanks!

Not good or bad from what I hear. I think WG is #1 in the valley, if u get a job hook me up bro!

 

[PharmtoCS]

Just curious, do you guys know what the pharmacy job outlook is like in the Las Vegas/Henderson area? I see that Roseman University is the only pharmacy school in the region, does that mean there will be more opportunities available for employment, especially if you are a Roseman grad? Just curious, would love to start off working in the Vegas area, as it is cheap living and has a lot to do, thanks!

It is saturated from what I heard. A lot of grads originally from the LA, OC, and SD areas are flocking there to escape the saturation hell that is SoCal. I expect it to get far worse as KGI, West Coast, Chapman, and Ketchum all graduate their classes in 2018-2019.

 

[Sine Cura]

Why would SoCal grads flock to Vegas? Roseman pumps out PharmDs left and right. Acute care delivery is dominated by UHS and HCA (at least relevant for PSLF).

 

[PharmtoCS]

Why would SoCal grads flock to Vegas? Roseman pumps out PharmDs left and right. Acute care delivery is dominated by UHS and HCA (at least relevant for PSLF).

SoCal schools pump out PharmDs left, right, up, and down, and this is not even with the 4 new schools that are about to graduate their first classes in the next 1-2 years. In this sense, Vegas might be slightly less saturated than SoCal.

 

[quickpic007]

Why would SoCal grads flock to Vegas? Roseman pumps out PharmDs left and right. Acute care delivery is dominated by UHS and HCA (at least relevant for PSLF).

Because its a much better place to live than socal in my opinion. Reasonable housing, great airport, nice weather save for a few months. No income tax.

 

[babybull]

Recently got licensed and currently living in the Metropolitan area. I've talked to classmates, many have found jobs, but some have been unemployed since graduation May 2016. I'm thinking of just getting licensed in other states to increase my odds of employment. I've never worked during school, meaning the only experience I have are APPE rotations. What are my chances of employment? I'm willing to move to other state, however, I'm scared that with my lack of experience, even rural areas won't hire me.

I also did not work during school (I preferred playing League of legends and Pokemon Go with friends, working out, cooking at home, and getting full 8 hours of sleep daily along with daily 2 hour naps). I got my license in October 2016 and was worried at the time that it would take me a year to find work. Luckily I landed a FT job a month later in November in socal for a major healthcare company (still working there).

At my school's APPE fair for 4th year rotations, one of the nuclear pharmacist preceptors went on a rant proclaiming out loud I would not end up graduating pharmacy school and that no one would be interested in hiring me. He made a scene out of my lack of experience and told me I could not sign up for his rotation (which I didn't have an issue with -- I would not want to work with a pharmacist with his kind of composure). All this despite my insistence that lack of work experience does not necessarily reflect laziness or carelessness and that I was willing to put in the required effort and time. This created an embarrassing scene for me quite frankly as it was in front of my classmates. For anyone in my situation all hope is certainly not lost. There are kinder tides out there as long as you are not willing to give up.

Hopefully things are working out for you. Never stop applying and apply widely!

 

[TheBlaah]

I also did not work during school (I preferred playing League of legends and Pokemon Go with friends, working out, cooking at home, and getting full 8 hours of sleep daily along with daily 2 hour naps)......
All this despite my insistence that lack of work experience does not necessarily reflect laziness or carelessness.

I dunno. Kinda seems to me, at least from the context given, that this is exactly what it reflected.

In any case, I agree. Just need to keep chipping away.

 

[babybull]

I dunno. Kinda seems to me, at least from the context given, that this is exactly what it reflected.

In any case, I agree. Just need to keep chipping away.

I forgot to mention a few of my own personal circumstances. I had been investing my time in something non-pharmacy related that only came up while in pharmacy school and had the potential to become more lucrative and fun than a career in pharmacy (related to streaming/computer games). Didn't work out, but I don't regret the choices I made because of the unique experiences they garnered me. Surprisingly, I mentioned this two of the interviews I went to, and both employers did not hold that against me and were instead seemingly receptive (I received job offers at both interviews). Each person would have their own reasons for not working while in pharmacy school. I think it's unfair to say assign a blanket label to all who don't work during pharmacy school as being lazy without first understanding their experiences. I didn't completely explain my own so I understand.

It was also merely a lifestyle choice, being able to look out for my health and focus on school. In a life where the choices are sleep, play, work, or study/school, time allows for 3 of them -- you choose. The conundrum is we sacrifice our health for wealth, then end up spending tremendous wealth trying to get our health back later. Except all the wealth in the world could not afford you your former state of health. I found an opportunity to make time for my health for four years and took advantage of it with the understanding that once you start working as pharmacist, it is likely to be all downhill from their in terms of how your health fares.

 

[jjkz]

Hello all,
I just got accepted to pharmacy school but having read through this post is giving me second thoughts! On one side, people talk about how there are NO JOBS and then on another side new graduates mention how they got job offers in six months time from graduating. So I'm really confused...im not able to commit to 200k+ in loans for this kind of uncertainty. Any advise would help but please mention if you are a practicing pharmacist or not. I feel like all the prepharmers are overly optimistic I just want the raw truth.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Hello all,
I just got accepted to pharmacy school but having read through this post is giving me second thoughts! On one side, people talk about how there are NO JOBS and then on another side new graduates mention how they got job offers in six months time from graduating. So I'm really confused...im not able to commit to 200k+ in loans for this kind of uncertainty. Any advise would help but please mention if you are a practicing pharmacist or not. I feel like all the prepharmers are overly optimistic I just want the raw truth.

There are still some jobs in less desirable areas (away from the cities and the coast) but it is likely that they will be completely filled by the time you graduate given that there are far more graduates being pumped out than there are pharmacists retiring and jobs growing organically (if any at all), and that is not to mention that there are still schools that have not yet graduated their first class. Either way, the student loans you take out will end up being a gamble.

 

[steveysmith54]

Hello all,
I just got accepted to pharmacy school but having read through this post is giving me second thoughts! On one side, people talk about how there are NO JOBS and then on another side new graduates mention how they got job offers in six months time from graduating. So I'm really confused...im not able to commit to 200k+ in loans for this kind of uncertainty. Any advise would help but please mention if you are a practicing pharmacist or not. I feel like all the prepharmers are overly optimistic I just want the raw truth.

If you want raw truth, refer to credible sources.

1. Check BLS stats
2. Read HRSA stats
3. Read credible articles in Pharmacy times
4. Walgreens announced a salary freeze due to saturation...

 

[Rybko90]

I'm a pharmacy student graduating in May of 2018.
CVS is offering me a position. I'll find out officially what the offer is mid-October.
My loans upon graduation are going to be just under 90k.

I don't mind working retail, but the Walgreens salary freeze is making me consider a hospital career. What's the point of going retail if retail salaries are going to drop down to hospital pharmacist levels?

What's the job outlook for PGY1s?
Should I just grab the money offered, pay off my loans, and just live my life, whatever the future salary will be?

 

[Sine Cura]

And hospital salaries are likely to follow retail salaries in most of the U.S.

I suggest making peace with it until you get to the point where "it's not worth it to you" anymore.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I'm a pharmacy student graduating in May of 2018.
CVS is offering me a position. I'll find out officially what the offer is mid-October.
My loans upon graduation are going to be just under 90k.

I don't mind working retail, but the Walgreens salary freeze is making me consider a hospital career. What's the point of going retail if retail salaries are going to drop down to hospital pharmacist levels?

What's the job outlook for PGY1s?
Should I just grab the money offered, pay off my loans, and just live my life, whatever the future salary will be?

I would just take the offer and pay off your loans ASAP. There is no guarantee that CVS (or anyone else, including PGY1s) will give you an offer if you wait.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

I found an opportunity to make time for my health for four years and took advantage of it with the understanding that once you start working as pharmacist, it is likely to be all downhill from their in terms of how your health fares.

I can lift more now than I did 5 years ago when I graduated. Then again, I graduated when I was 24.

 

[gwarm01]

I can lift more now than I did 5 years ago when I graduated. Then again, I graduated when I was 24.

Yeah, that seemed like an odd claim. I may not be as spry as I was in my 20s, but time comes for us all. I guess it just depends on how well you handle stress until you learn to not be bothered by it.

 

[sakigt]

Yeah, that seemed like an odd claim. I may not be as spry as I was in my 20s, but time comes for us all. I guess it just depends on how well you handle stress until you learn to not be bothered by it.

My 5k in Pharmacy school was 45 minutes. In a few weeks Im shooting for sub 30 minutes up and down stadium ramps. Also joined a semi-crossfit style bro gym thing twice a week, yoga when I have time or I hurt (youtube) and have done the Mindspace app for almost a year now. Highly recommended.

 

[GrapePropel]

Hello all,
I just got accepted to pharmacy school but having read through this post is giving me second thoughts! On one side, people talk about how there are NO JOBS and then on another side new graduates mention how they got job offers in six months time from graduating. So I'm really confused...im not able to commit to 200k+ in loans for this kind of uncertainty. Any advise would help but please mention if you are a practicing pharmacist or not. I feel like all the prepharmers are overly optimistic I just want the raw truth.

no jobs, reduced pay for the jobs that exist

 

[GrapePropel]

There are still some jobs in less desirable areas (away from the cities and the coast) but it is likely that they will be completely filled by the time you graduate given that there are far more graduates being pumped out than there are pharmacists retiring and jobs growing organically (if any at all), and that is not to mention that there are still schools that have not yet graduated their first class. Either way, the student loans you take out will end up being a gamble.

I would like to add a "gamble" that the federal government is taking not the student. Yes, you will not be able to erase the debt. But nothing is stopping you from just living with your parents, living the NEET life and playing videos games/ interneting all day(if a male) or finding a rich man to date and cohabitation with (if a female). The banks that loaned you the money can't force you to pay them. OR you could just move to a different country and work.

 

[8turkeys]

before it was bad in some areas, now it is almost bad EVERYWHERE PDI

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Wow, that's the worst I've ever seen that site.

 

[rxdawg21]

before it was bad in some areas, now it is almost bad EVERYWHERE PDI

Wow, all specialist jobs are in oversupply except for out West...So much for doing a residency. I have been surprised at the job market in Georgia as it isn't as bad as I have expected (I've expected unemployment, 20-30 hours per week, pay cuts/layoffs). Makes sense now as Georgia is one of the best states in the nation. Sad day. I can't imagine what another 2-3 years will hold.

The only major thing I've seen with Georgia is they continue to start new grads at the same if not slightly lower rates as 4 years ago. It's a paycut, but starting at 115-120k is still good money.

 

[josh6718]

Wow, that's the worst I've ever seen that site.

Makes me really wish I would have been an engineer. My brother works for Shell and gets 6 weeks PAID paternal leave.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Wow, all specialist jobs are in oversupply except for out West...So much for doing a residency. I have been surprised at the job market in Georgia as it isn't as bad as I have expected (I've expected unemployment, 20-30 hours per week, pay cuts/layoffs). Makes sense now as Georgia is one of the best states in the nation. Sad day. I can't imagine what another 2-3 years will hold.

The only major thing I've seen with Georgia is they continue to start new grads at the same if not slightly lower rates as 4 years ago. It's a paycut, but starting at 115-120k is still good money.

Did you check out the state-by-state PDI site (PDI) and check out the PDI stats for some of the other states in the southeast? Even AL now has a 2.8, whereas before it had something like a 3.5-4.0. You know it's really getting bad when the state of AL is now saturated. Of course, NC/SC/TN were all already saturated according to the prior stats, but according to the latest edition, TN isn't just saturated... it actually has a 1.8.

Even more surprisingly, AR and MS, which have had the best PDI stats of any southern(-ish) states for years (typically 4.0+ for each state), are now barely balancing supply and demand at a 3.0 for each state. At this rate, they, too, will be saturated when the next stats are published in the winter/spring.

Virtually every state in the midwest (save for one or two here and there that are barely clinging on to a 3.0) is now saturated as well.

What is really surprising to me is the fact AK now has a rating of just 3.5. I believe it had something like a 4.5 on the most recent report prior to this one.

I have to say, even I'm blown away by how bad these stats suggest the pharmacist job market is (and to think that they are compiled by one of the national pharmacy organizations in whose best interests it is to make the job market situation look as rosy as possible).

With the national PDI stats suggesting a nationwide oversupply, it will be interesting to see how APhA, AACP, and the other anti-pharmacist national organizations respond. I know it gets old, but damn if reports like these don't make me feel like I've already won by simply making the decision to do AA/PA.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Did you check out the state-by-state PDI site (PDI) and check out the PDI stats for some of the other states in the southeast? Even AL now has a 2.8, whereas before it had something like a 3.5-4.0. You know it's really getting bad when the state of AL is now saturated. Of course, NC/SC/TN were all already saturated according to the prior stats, but according to the latest edition, TN isn't just saturated... it actually has a 1.8.

Even more surprisingly, AR and MS, which have had the best PDI stats of any southern(-ish) states for years (typically 4.0+ for each state), are now barely balancing supply and demand at a 3.0 for each state. At this rate, they, too, will be saturated when the next stats are published in the winter/spring.

Virtually every state in the midwest (save for one or two here and there that are barely clinging on to a 3.0) is now saturated as well.

What is really surprising to me is the fact AK now has a rating of just 3.5. I believe it had something like a 4.5 on the most recent report prior to this one.

I have to say, even I'm blown away by how bad these stats suggest the pharmacist job market is (and to think that they are compiled by one of the national pharmacy organizations in whose best interests it is to make the job market situation look as rosy as possible).

With the national PDI stats suggesting a nationwide oversupply, it will be interesting to see how APhA, AACP, and the other anti-pharmacist national organizations respond. I know it gets old, but damn if reports like these don't make me feel like I've already won by simply making the decision to do AA/PA.

Well this thread is now doomed.

Ready to answer why you post here instead of more appropriate forums or are you going to continue to troll?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Well this thread is now doomed.

Ready to answer why you post here instead of more appropriate forums or are you going to continue to troll?

No, the thread is not "doomed." I simply remarked on how surprised even I am that the job market is getting so saturated. What do you think about the fact that the oft-referenced "fallback" states (as in, you can still get a job there because those states are considered to be so undesirable) are now becoming saturated themselves?

There is no point in posting in the pre-pharm forums because I'll just get the same responses real pharmacists get when they make the same kinds of posts ("you didn't go into it for the right reasons," "you just suck anyways," "I'm truly passionate about the field and am willing to do what it takes to find a job," etc.). I would rather hear what pharmacists who have invested time/money/effort into pursuing the career have to say.

 

[VA77]

This is the worst data I think anyone has seen. What really puts it in perspective is that PDI is funded by AACP which tries to put a positive spin on employment numbers to keep the pharmacy schools in business. Now the question is how long before schools have to really decrease their numbers or just pull the plug. There is no doubt now that provider status, PBM reimbursement reform, and possibly another big company to take the place of RAD MUST come about or pharmacy will be on nobody's list of employment careers.
BTW...TN at a 1.8 is crazy shocking but they do have 6 schools and I think 5 of them started in past 11 years.

 

[Gombrich12]

Tennessee has almost as many schools as Florida (6 vs 7) with a third of the population. The funny thing is there was only pharmacy school in the state as of 2004. This made everyone want to jump on the student loan money train and here we are with a tragedy of the commons.

 

[wagrxm2000]

No, the thread is not "doomed." I simply remarked on how surprised even I am that the job market is getting so saturated. What do you think about the fact that the oft-referenced "fallback" states (as in, you can still get a job there because those states are considered to be so undesirable) are now becoming saturated themselves?

There is no point in posting in the pre-pharm forums because I'll just get the same responses real pharmacists get when they make the same kinds of posts ("you didn't go into it for the right reasons," "you just suck anyways," "I'm truly passionate about the field and am willing to do what it takes to find a job," etc.). I would rather hear what pharmacists who have invested time/money/effort into pursuing the career have to say.

You do realize no one ever has a conversation with you right? My point is WE HAVE JOBS. Just try once. Create a thread and see what you get.

Sigh....i guess I'll continue to live a great life as a pharmacist and you continue to waste yours in your parents basement.

 

[PAtoPharm]

You do realize no one ever has a conversation with you right? My point is WE HAVE JOBS. Just try once. Create a thread and see what you get.

Sigh....i guess I'll continue to live a great life as a pharmacist and you continue to waste yours in your parents basement.

You'll continue to live a great life as a pharmacist for how much longer? Is it still going to be a great life if you have to take a $30k paycut? What if Walgreens decides to eliminate your position and hire 2 part-time pharmacists who don't earn benefits to replace you? How does it not make cold, hard business sense to do so, and why do you think it won't happen?

 

[BMBiology]

You still don't get it.

When a new graduate with 200 k in student loan debt is willing to do your job for 30% less, it weakens the profession.

When a veteran pharmacist is afraid to speak up because he knows there is a lack of job, it weakens the profession.

When CVS thinks they can get rid of you because you can't meet their unrealistic expectations, it weakens the profession.

When a PGY1 can't find a job that he's trained to do because hospitals are cutting their budget, it weakens the profession.

(And yes, we know you and your 10 newly hired pharmacists are doing really well).

Found this 4 year old post in this thread. Unfortunately for the profession, I got it right. The profession is weak and it is getting weaker with each graduating class.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wagrxm2000]

You'll continue to live a great life as a pharmacist for how much longer? Is it still going to be a great life if you have to take a $30k paycut? What if Walgreens decides to eliminate your position and hire 2 part-time pharmacists who don't earn benefits to replace you? How does it not make cold, hard business sense to do so, and why do you think it won't happen?

Why do you care?????? This isn't your profession. Hmm let's see, say it happens in ten years, that's another 1 million plus in salary

To answer though I'll be retired long before anything happens.

How much did you make today, $0?

I am curious though, how exactly do you think I'll be let go? I lead my district in every possible metric. What are they going to say to fire me? (This should be good) Most importantly, why not do it right now? Why are they waiting?

Here's my prediction, twenty years or less pharmacists will have full prescribing rights. Demand will soar. People realizing pharmacists are the best to decide what people should be prescribed will hire them over PAs. Telemedicine becomes huge and pharmacists make three times their salary now on their own. PAs salaries will plummet. You somehow make it through PA school only to realize you made the biggest mistake in your life and now only make $50k.

Will I be right? Who knows but it's just as likely to happen as anything else

 

[mr.applesauce]

The biggest problem here is that it was SOMEHOW allowed to open so many schools. How did this even happen? Now everyone is suffering from it.

There should be way less schools pumping out grads and the average acceptance stats should be a 3.5 GPA; not being able to get in with a 2.8 GPA.

 

[rxdawg21]

This is the worst data I think anyone has seen. What really puts it in perspective is that PDI is funded by AACP which tries to put a positive spin on employment numbers to keep the pharmacy schools in business. Now the question is how long before schools have to really decrease their numbers or just pull the plug. There is no doubt now that provider status, PBM reimbursement reform, and possibly another big company to take the place of RAD MUST come about or pharmacy will be on nobody's list of employment careers.
BTW...TN at a 1.8 is crazy shocking but they do have 6 schools and I think 5 of them started in past 11 years.

Tennessee opened up 4 schools all at once and I think they graduated their first class around 2012...crazy.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Tennessee opened up 4 schools all at once and I think they graduated their first class around 2012...crazy.

I wonder how many students are in each class? It seems like a similar scenario in GA (job market was pretty decent until PCOM and South started graduating groups of new pharmacists every year)

 

[quickpic007]

You'll continue to live a great life as a pharmacist for how much longer? Is it still going to be a great life if you have to take a $30k paycut? What if Walgreens decides to eliminate your position and hire 2 part-time pharmacists who don't earn benefits to replace you? How does it not make cold, hard business sense to do so, and why do you think it won't happen?

just had to chime in here, I took a self imposed 80K ~ish pay cut this year due to cutting out excessive OT.
It feels great!! surviving on just over double national average income is not bad as a single 30ish year old.

 

[jjkz]

I don’t see why everyone quarrels on the forum. The stats are in plain sight and anyone capable of graduating with a PharmD or being accepted with a 3.5 GPA can easily discern what’s happening. All signs point downward for this profession. Sure some are well off now and that’s only because they graduated years ago with less debt and a viable job market. Now things are different. $200+ debt to fight tooth and nail for a job with a retail chain that will most likely go under with the entry of amazon. I personally am pissed off not at PAtoPharm whom we all know says the truth but at the deans of these schools and associations who are profiteering from their obvious sabatoge of what used to be considered a prestigious and stable profession. Fight the real enemy not each other!