People who've made it to the other side of a doctorate, what kind of work do you do?

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Meteora

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I know this may seem like an odd question. I've been thinking lately. I am clinically oriented (wanting to ultimately be a therapist) but I also would like to do research as well. I don't have a specific job in mind but I think one that would make me the happiest would allow me to do both.

When applying to programs I was often told that a PhD in Clinical Psych is a very flexible degree and you can do many different things with it. I guess I'm just curious about examples and to hear what kind of work people do. I know statistically most people become clinicians after getting their doctorates.

So SDN, what kind of work do you do? Do you enjoy it? Is it what you had in mind when you started your doctoral programs?

Thank you.

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I spend a lot of my time in clinical practice, mainly providing psychotherapy, but I also have time to do research (mostly in collaboration rather than as a solo PI) and to teach. Academic medical centers have their downsides but can be good places to work for people who enjoy this kind of variety.

+1 to the threads above also.
 
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I spend all day listening to increasingly complicated stories from college students who are resisting urges to kill themselves while unsuccessfully begging for money from administrators who are convinced I help students decide which classes to take.
 
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I spend all day listening to increasingly complicated stories from college students who are resisting urges to kill themselves while unsuccessfully begging for money from administrators who are convinced I help students decide which classes to take.
...and when one of them takes others down with them, you still won't be acknowledged or respected or paid, but you might still get blamed for not doing more to stop it. At least I get paid a bonus to be in one of the highest suicidal regions of the nation. From what I have seen the UCC salaries are ridiculously low and from what I remember of undergrad, the pathology was pretty high.
 
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...and when one of them takes others down with them, you still won't be acknowledged or respected or paid, but you might still get blamed for not doing more to stop it. At least I get paid a bonus to be in one of the highest suicidal regions of the nation. From what I have seen the UCC salaries are ridiculously low and from what I remember of undergrad, the pathology was pretty high.

The wages are ridiculously low but the job qualifies for PSLF. I am beginning to imagine just going into PP which will likely cover the difference of the forgiveness and then some. I've been in four UCCs across the country and the "do more with less" attitude is becoming so pervasive it's simply not a long term career option for me anymore. Bummer because I love the work.
 
The wages are ridiculously low but the job qualifies for PSLF. I am beginning to imagine just going into PP which will likely cover the difference of the forgiveness and then some. I've been in four UCCs across the country and the "do more with less" attitude is becoming so pervasive it's simply not a long term career option for me anymore. Bummer because I love the work.
It seems that whenever salary is seen as just a business expense that doesn't directly bring in revenue there is always going to be a lot of downward pressure.
 
x2 what Jon said. Some early luck means I get a brief reprieve and can sneak in a little science between episodes of begging the next couple years. Otherwise, that and the occasional patient.

Can't speak to everywhere, but relative to the CC I prac'd at...I think I am making more than they were paying anyone but the director as first-year AMC faculty. And I might have even been able to beat that if I had gone out on the market rather than staying at the same site. There are certainly other perks to CC gigs (cush hours at the time - though that seems to be fading, college/universities usually have better-than-average benefits), but still. I imagine turnover will be a growing issue in these places, if it isn't already. Think community mental health is about the only place I see paying worse...
 
I find the UCC salaries practically criminal. I interviewed at one and would have had to take a 20k pay cut from my VA salary. If these large division 1 schools, like the one I interviewed with, can afford to pay their coaching staffs what they pay them.....it's not like most universities are hurting for money.


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I'm at a very large D1/R1 school...lol
 
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I find the UCC salaries practically criminal. I interviewed at one and would have had to take a 20k pay cut from my VA salary. If these large division 1 schools, like the one I interviewed with, can afford to pay their coaching staffs what they pay them.....it's not like most universities are hurting for money.


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UCC's don't tend to get multi-million dollar TV broadcasting contracts. :)
 
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Most well paid coaches/teams bring in FAR more $ than they cost. Many DI football programs bring in enough revenue to cover many of the other sports who don't generate positive revenue.

Right, and I don't disagree with them being able to use it. I'm just pointing out, using that one example, that there's a lot of money that could be used for the mental health of the students. Just an observation that here in my college town, the UCC clinicians are compensated worse than anywhere I've seen in my career. Even keeping sports out of it, how about the administrators? Same deal, I guess. I just can't imagine that there's not enough money to keep UCC's well staffed with well paid people if that were made the priority. It's just not for lots of other reasons.
 
The cynical side of me thinks that's when they would start hiring LPCs. :(

Probably not far off. I had my interview for an LCSW position. The setting was never my ideal place to work but I was just shocked at what seemed like a hell of a juxtaposition. Fair point though by T4C but I'm thinking just like you...I think they'd just push psychologists out then. Pretty wild.
 
Shaping minds, young and old, and planning as much travel as possible based on conference locations.

At the moment, begging for money is not as urgent. But I do spend considerable time avoiding administrators strategically so that I can avoid getting sucked into unwanted committee work and academic politicking.
 
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If psychologists refused to work for post-doc level salaries, then maybe the universities would be forced to increase the salaries.


Only if they do so en masse, I opted to turn down a post-doc that offered me $25k to move half-way across the country. Instead, I chose a post-doc job in my area of interest (two jobs actually) that ended up paying me double that while saving money as I was able to stay with my parents for that time. Ironically, the only major hurdle to me becoming ABPP in my area of specialty is the lack of formal post-doc. Not the end of the world, but I am frustrated with our profession for requiring more formalized education requirements before setting up an infrastructure for programs and decent pay, the way medicine does it. It is one of those issues in which me have one foot firmly in the healthcare/medical system, and the other foot running far away from it.
 
Plenty of formalized postdocs pay pretty well. Mine was 50k the first year and 52 the second year. I'm actually a strong proponent for some specialties, neuro especially, given the focus on didactics and experiences needed needed beyond what most have coming in.
 
Oh, the humanity!


And I even went to a funded program and out up with research for an annual stipend despite wanting to be a clinician. I am odd in many ways, ERG, lol. My bank account isn't exactly average either. I was already dating my now wife, I guess she is odd in that same way for putting up with my crazy ways.
 
Plenty of formalized postdocs pay pretty well. Mine was 50k the first year and 52 the second year. I'm actually a strong proponent for some specialties, neuro especially, given the focus on didactics and experiences needed needed beyond what most have coming in.

I'm a proponent too, but IMO, we need all internships and post-docs to be properly formalized with fair pay prior to requiring them. Things are looking better now, but they were tough when I finished after 2009. A shaky economy should not collapse the educational track.
 
I'm a proponent too, but IMO, we need all internships and post-docs to be properly formalized with fair pay prior to requiring them. Things are looking better now, but they were tough when I finished after 2009. A shaky economy should not collapse the educational track.

When there are problems with the tap (huge diploma mill programs with cohorts of 40+) you will always have problems on the other end. That needs to be fixed before the internship/postdoc can be worked on. I would say that reviewing postdoc apps, it's extremely easy to eliminate 30-50% of the stack due to the applicants being of so poor quality that they wouldn't qualify for our internship, much less our postdoc. I firmly believe it's an issue at the front end until I've seen compelling evidence otherwise.
 
The over supply is definitely suppressing the markets in popular places (e.g. NY, CA, Chicago, etc). Seeing some of the advertised rates for part-time and/or contract rates is incredibly frustrating bc ppl are taking these jobs. The over supply is at least contributing to this problem if not being the driving force of it.

Medicine was smart and they controlled their #'s (and in some instances they have a shortage), and this was done despite the explosion of for-profit (mostly) Carribean and other non-USA based schools.
 
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I somewhat disagree. IMO, there are many people whose careers are impacted by emotional stuff. At $100/hr, 40hrs/week, any psychologist should be able to bring in $150k with ample vacation and slips in productivity. Medicine is very good at understanding what they bring in, and how to leverage that.

If there were a flood of psychologists who welcome at salary of $40k with that production, I would sit at the door of every argosy and hand out job offers.

But there are demand limitations to the market which are partially mediated by corporate culture, insurance, media, midlevels, etc.

And the work ethic of psychologists diverges from any other billable hour profession I know of.
 
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When there are problems with the tap (huge diploma mill programs with cohorts of 40+) you will always have problems on the other end. That needs to be fixed before the internship/postdoc can be worked on. I would say that reviewing postdoc apps, it's extremely easy to eliminate 30-50% of the stack due to the applicants being of so poor quality that they wouldn't qualify for our internship, much less our postdoc. I firmly believe it's an issue at the front end until I've seen compelling evidence otherwise.

That is part of the problem. The other issue is residency funding. Medicare subsidizes medical residency costs. Psychology grad education has no such finding source. Post-docs should be able to bill for services in all states as well, which would increase revenue for positions.
 
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I somewhat disagree. IMO, there are many people whose careers are impacted by emotional stuff. At $100/hr, 40hrs/week, any psychologist should be able to bring in $150k with ample vacation and slips in productivity. Medicine is very good at understanding what they bring in, and how to leverage that.

If there were a flood of psychologists who welcome at salary of $40k with that production, I would sit at the door of every argosy and hand out job offers.

But there are demand limitations to the market which are partially mediated by corporate culture, insurance, media, midlevels, etc.

And the work ethic of psychologists diverges from any other billable hour profession I know of.

40 billable hours a week seems like a lot, but I don't know what to compare it to. Not sure how many billable hours a dentist or a family practice physician would have during the week.
 
40 billable hours a week seems like a lot, but I don't know what to compare it to. Not sure how many billable hours a dentist or a family practice physician would have during the week.

Not sure about billable hours, but my wife's new position (family med physician) only requires her to work 4 days a week for full-time pay and benefits.
 
Worked in private practice, first heading the forensic services for a small clinic and then working as a contract psychologist and program evaluation specialist for a group doing public safety hiring evaluations (e.g., police, corrections staff). Confirmed I missed the university setting and working with students. Now I'm faculty with a nice balance of research, teaching, and supervision of clinical doctoral students. It's the right fit for me.
 
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