OUWB v. CCLCM

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unexpected1234

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From Michigan, full scholarships at both

OUWB Pros:
-Beaumont health system
-4 years
-close to home/family

OUWB Cons:
-7 hours a day of class
-not as establish (however beaumont has been a teaching hospital for decades)

CCLCM Pros:
-Well-known, cleveland clinic
-no "Exams", more self-assessments (this might actually make STEP studying harder as even the curriculum focuses more on science/research than medicine)

CCLCM Cons:
-5 years
-LOTS of required research, like LOTS, requires a master level thesis in the 5th year

idk...what do you guys think?

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why efle?
it's a brand new program still getting the kinks worked out with annoying policies like mandatory attendance if you want honors, vs an extremely well regarded, academically connected and oriented program at a leading center with a ton of individualized attention

I'm assuming from the fact CCLCM is an option for you that you have a researchy background and would be interested in specializing/going for a competitive academic center residency, as context for the above. If you dream of private practice psychiatry or some such and want to be close to family then by all means go for Oakland
 
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Full disclosure: I'm on the waitlist at CCLCM, and probably going to shoot myself in the foot with this one.

It would seem to me based on this comparison that you're one of the majority of people who use this sub forum who has already made your choice, but is looking for justification. All I can say is that pretty much every person you encounter here is going to tell you to pick CCLCM. It's almost like you're doing that "money vs prestige" choice but money isn't a factor. There are a ton of reasons to pick CCLCM--it's already established, higher-ranked, and more prestigious. It offers an individualized, noncompetitive curriculum free from tests or grades (especially important in the third year), and even without the tests students still do well on step. I could go on and on. CCLCM students essentially have their pick of top residency programs. Bottom line is that objectively, CCLCM is a better school.

That said, this isn't an objective decision. You aren't deciding which school should be more highly ranked, but rather the school where you can see yourself being most successful for the next four (or five) years. This is a decision that is yours and yours alone, and you should follow your heart. There are almost no measures of a "better" school which I would consider worth being miserable the entire time you're there, or risking not doing your best as a student. I'm sure, given that you got into CCLCM, you could be successful wherever you go. But if you think being closer to family would make you more successful, or if the idea of more years of mandatory research makes you ill, then pick OUWB. If those are minor issues to you and you're truly looking for which school is better, then pick CCLCM.
 
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Full disclosure: I'm on the waitlist at CCLCM, and probably going to shoot myself in the foot with this one.

It would seem to me based on this comparison that you're one of the majority of people who use this sub forum who has already made your choice, but is looking for justification. All I can say is that pretty much every person you encounter here is going to tell you to pick CCLCM. It's almost like you're doing that "money vs prestige" choice but money isn't a factor. There are a ton of reasons to pick CCLCM--it's already established, higher-ranked, and more prestigious. It offers an individualized, noncompetitive curriculum free from tests or grades (especially important in the third year), and even without the tests students still do well on step. I could go on and on. CCLCM students essentially have their pick of top residency programs. Bottom line is that objectively, CCLCM is a better school.

That said, this isn't an objective decision. You aren't deciding which school should be more highly ranked, but rather the school where you can see yourself being most successful for the next four (or five) years. This is a decision that is yours and yours alone, and you should follow your heart. There are almost no measures of a "better" school which I would consider worth being miserable the entire time you're there, or risking not doing your best as a student. I'm sure, given that you got into CCLCM, you could be successful wherever you go. But if you think being closer to family would make you more successful, or if the idea of more years of mandatory research makes you ill, then pick OUWB. If those are minor issues to you and you're truly looking for which school is better, then pick CCLCM.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
I found this post a little while ago that I think is really helpful for people considering CCLCM:

"I am a Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine alumnus.

Getting Google alerts about the school occasionally sends me to this forum (which was very helpful for me during my medical school application process many years ago) and I'll skim the threads that pertain to CCLCM. What I'm always surprised by is the emphasis that applicants place on the full merit scholarship that accompanies acceptance.

Hopefully I don’t come off as patronizing when I offer some unrequited advice on choosing a medical school, particularly as it pertains to CCLCM.

First, there is way too much focus on money. As a resident, I completely understand the crunch of finances and also am wholly familiar with loan interest capitalization. But, the idea that you should choose a medical school based on financial incentives is foolish. If you are equally torn between schools, it can be very helpful. Or, if your goals are very distinct and directed toward quick completion with minimal turbulence. In that case, the lower the tuition the better. But otherwise? Choose where you will be happiest. Life is too short, residency is too hard, and your happiness is too important.

Medical school occurs during a formative period in your life and where you go to medical school sets off a cascade of life events that will determine (for many people) the specialty you choose, the career you desire, and your lifelong friends. Do NOT make a decision based on a few hundred thousand dollars if it means you will be any measure less happy once you make that more frugal or “safe” decision. Also, an extra year in earning potential does not matter. Not an iota, as it compares to the rest of your life- or at least that’s what it feels like now. The concept of weighing a hypothetical year of income against a year of experiential unknowns is both as unromantic and unappealing as it sounds when you consider the length of the average physician career. You’re never going to look back and think “I wish I had netted another year of salary”- life just does not work that way. You should be interested in an extra academic year because it affords you the chance for the first time in a long time (and what will be a long time thereafter) to intellectually explore an academic or personal pursuit without other pressing obligations or the relentless regiment of a ticking clock. As I tell incoming residency applicants, you need to find the place you will be happiest every day, not the most prestigious or where your faculty advisor thinks is the most flattering. Very few people can function at a high level when they are unhappy.

There are a lot of components of medical schools that applicants focus on that again, from my perspective are inconsequential when taken out of context. Learning styles, lecture vs. PBL, parking, etc. These are only important in aggregate, when you debate whether or not the general educational focus of the school fits your personality and goals.

To that end, do not attend the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine because it is less expensive. Furthermore, do not attend the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine unless you truly have a sense that academic medicine is somehow in your future. It is otherwise a waste of your time, the school’s time, and your classmate’s time. There is no way that you’re going to be happy when you’re just trying to learn the cardiac cycle and instead of answering questions that prepare you for boards (like at other schools) you are being asked to prepare a mock three-armed randomized trial that builds on the results from a Cell 2008 paper on cardiac myosin, or whatever. Going through these academic exercises without the desire to be a functioning physician-investigator in the future will not endear you to research, it will drive you away.

Many of my classmates had to make the decision between places like CCLCM and JHH, HMS, etc and I don’t know exactly how each of them felt at the end of the 5 years. What I do know is that people who started out interested in academics were on the whole happier during their time than those who were on the fence about it.

As someone who is now glimpsing the end of a long residency, I’m going to continue being a researcher and a surgeon. And in that regard I am exceptionally happy with the education I received at Cleveland Clinic. I look back incredibly fondly and I have no doubt that I received world-class training. But I don’t know what my path would have been at a different school, and no really has that capability. What I do know is that I attended the school I thought would make me the happiest, and luckily I was right. I encourage you to do the same.

I wish you the best of luck."

It's from this thread if anyone is curious: Which would you choose and why: CCLCM vs HMS?
 
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Also your full ride at both schools sort of makes the money topic moot.

Edit: it definitely makes it moot
 
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I am a Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine alumnus.
I completely understand the crunch of finances and also am wholly familiar with loan interest capitalization.
>goes to the full ride option
>tells others they understand soul-crushing debt and not to consider the full ride very much

hmmmmm
 
>goes to the full ride option
>tells others they understand soul-crushing debt and not to consider the full ride very much

hmmmmm
Yeah, I mostly just thought their point about needing to love research so you don't go insane was interesting


EDIT: Not that this is really relevant here, but if you don't receive other financial assistance, you can still accrue debt going to CCLCM (~130k) because they only cover tuition and fees.
 
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Yeah, I mostly just thought their point about needing to love research so you don't go insane was interesting
I don't understand why people would even apply to CCLCM without an interest in research, let alone how they can be convincing enough in their essays and interview to get accepted. It has a whole required research year!! Why would anyone bother with this if they had no interest in academic residencies
 
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I don't understand why people would even apply to CCLCM without an interest in research, let alone how they can be convincing enough in their essays and interview to get accepted. It has a whole required research year!! Why would anyone bother with this if they had no interest in academic residencies
Yeah. People definitely do though. Maybe because of the no tuition? Or because they believe they will develop a stronger interest if they are exposed to it? Also there are plenty of people who *like* research but don't *love* it, and they may get freaked out about the extra year.
 
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I don't understand why people would even apply to CCLCM without an interest in research, let alone how they can be convincing enough in their essays and interview to get accepted. It has a whole required research year!! Why would anyone bother with this if they had no interest in academic residencies
I think a lot of people see "free, no grades" and think "sign me up!" only to realize upon reflection that research isn't a true passion and that the curriculum is really centered around it. It's easy (when it's in the abstract application stage) to think that you can put up with a research year to get those other advantages, especially if you've already done enough research to get interviewed. Many premeds do a ton of research purely for the goal of getting into a good school.
 
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Yeah, I'm also wondering why you even applied to cclcm if you weren't into the research........

Disclaimer: I'm on the waitlist here and this is my dream school so it sort of erks me.....
 
Jumping on the CCLCM train, but I question your personal happiness with the focus on research...
I applied to neither school though.
 
OP, what most of us here are trying to tell you is that no amount of financial aid is going to overcompensate for your unhappiness at a program. Med school isn't like college where you can just transfer after a year if you don't like it.
 
What about to try this ?

Choose A or B !

A B
|-------------|
| ------------ |
| ------------ |
|-------------|
|-------------|
| ------------|
------------
|-------------|
OUWB CCLCM

This is related to the theory of parallel universes. You choose A and You choose B will be different after 10 years, surely your family are also different depending on A or B if you are a single now.
Can it be confined in the events on the Earth or can it change something in another galaxy ?
 
What about to try this ?

Choose A or B !

A B
|-------------|
| ------------ |
| ------------ |
|-------------|
|-------------|
| ------------|
------------
|-------------|
OUWB CCLCM

This is related to the theory of parallel universes. You choose A and You choose B will be different after 10 years, surely your family are also different depending on A or B if you are a single now.
Can it be confined in the events on the Earth or can it change something in another galaxy ?
WTF did I just read?!
 
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What about to try this ?

Choose A or B !

A B
|-------------|
| ------------ |
| ------------ |
|-------------|
|-------------|
| ------------|
------------
|-------------|
OUWB CCLCM

This is related to the theory of parallel universes. You choose A and You choose B will be different after 10 years, surely your family are also different depending on A or B if you are a single now.
Can it be confined in the events on the Earth or can it change something in another galaxy ?
Me reading that post:
i-cannot-brain-today-i-has-the-dumb-cat.jpg

...but in all seriousness, you'd obviously be much happier at Oakland.
 
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I am also on the waitlist for CCLCM so I fully admit to having a conflict of interest but the one thing that strikes me as odd is that you put all the reasearch for the school as a CON!

For what it's worth, I'm lucky enough to also have a full tuition scholarship at an excellent 4 year M.D. program but I would take CCLCM in a heartbeat because for me, all that research plus the additional year is a PRO x 100.

However, it doesn't matter what this waitlist pleb thinks. It seems like there's some excellent advice in this thread and you have a tough choice in the next few days (if you haven't made the choice already). Congratulations on such an impressive cycle! You've earned it :)

Edit: I admittedly don't know much about your other school option.
 
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