Osteopathic Orthopedic Surgery Chances

[UNDADAWG]

I am a third year and I have Comlex of 616 and Top 5-7% in my class. I was wondering what my chances are with no research experience and scores to get in. I do plan on doing a case review and contribute to a lab.

I was wondering what DO Orthopedic Residencies I should be doing my auditions and where I can potentially be competitive?
What is the Average Comlex to get Ortho now?
Places I might not have to rotate through but potentially still get interviews and spots?
Who to get letter of recs from- would it look good to get it from a PD or Chairmen of MD place and is there certain DO PD or Chairman that would look good if I can get?
Do I need to get a back up even if I work hard enough to get the spot?
Any new programs opening this year or next?

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[jet616]

Some of these are a bit complicated to answer.

1. What are "good" scores for ortho?

• Some programs value board scores more than others.
  • In those that really put a lot of emphasis on it, the higher the better and a score of <600 is an application killer
  • In other programs, a low score <550, is more of a red flag that you'll have to overcome with the rest of you application

2. Do I need a backup?

• Unfortunately, medical school is not set up for us to have enough time to fully explore a lot of great fields if you want to match into a competitive specialty like orthopedics. In fact, simultaneously applying to another specialty might even hurt your chances of matching because it make programs "question your dedication." Ridiculous but part of the culture nonetheless.
• However, good applicants go unmatched every year so it's important to have a plan in place. I did an additional TRI year before matching into ortho but there are certainly other strategies. If anyone is interested in talking about my experience, feel free to PM me.

3. Where should I rotate?

• This is probably the hardest question you students face. Residencies are vastly different and getting information about the differences can be hard because residents are busy people!
• We're putting together a resource that hashes out the differences between the DO programs (# of residence, curriculum, board scores, # of interviewees, etc). Anticipate that it'll be done in the next couple of months so sign up on the site if you'd like to know when it's released.

4. Who do I get my letters of recommendations from?

• phone calls are worth a million LOR's. Basically, look at your attendings as potential mentors rather than just LOR writers. Foster the relationship and you'll know who to ask for support from.

 

[cgk]

Some of these are a bit complicated to answer.

1. What are "good" scores for ortho?

• Some programs value board scores more than others.
  • In those that really put a lot of emphasis on it, the higher the better and a score of <600 is an application killer
  • In other programs, a low score <550, is more of a red flag that you'll have to overcome with the rest of you application

2. Do I need a backup?

• Unfortunately, medical school is not set up for us to have enough time to fully explore a lot of great fields if you want to match into a competitive specialty like orthopedics. In fact, simultaneously applying to another specialty might even hurt your chances of matching because it make programs "question your dedication." Ridiculous but part of the culture nonetheless.
• However, good applicants go unmatched every year so it's important to have a plan in place. I did an additional TRI year before matching into ortho but there are certainly other strategies. If anyone is interested in talking about my experience, feel free to PM me.

3. Where should I rotate?

• This is probably the hardest question you students face. Residencies are vastly different and getting information about the differences can be hard because residents are busy people!
• We're putting together a resource that hashes out the differences between the DO programs (# of residence, curriculum, board scores, # of interviewees, etc). Anticipate that it'll be done in the next couple of months so sign up on the site if you'd like to know when it's released.

4. Who do I get my letters of recommendations from?

• phone calls are worth a million LOR's. Basically, look at your attendings as potential mentors rather than just LOR writers. Foster the relationship and you'll know who to ask for support from.

What does that job market look like coming out of residency/ fellowship? Are there biases regarding job opportunities for osteopathic ortho surgeons? If so, where are the best job prospects?

 

[jet616]

I imagine that it's probably very dependent on where you want to practice but I'm really not sure. I'd be curious to know as well if anyone out there wants to comment.

 

[cgk]

I imagine that it's probably very dependent on where you want to practice but I'm really not sure. I'd be curious to know as well if anyone out there wants to comment.

I really wish someone with knowledge on the topic would give some insight as to the job market throughout the country after coming out of an osteopathic orthopedic residency. Getting accepted to a residency program is only as good as the job prospects it affords you after training is completed.

 

[Orthojoe]

I really wish someone with knowledge on the topic would give some insight as to the job market throughout the country after coming out of an osteopathic orthopedic residency. Getting accepted to a residency program is only as good as the job prospects it affords you after training is completed.

Osteopathic orthopedic outlook?? -- VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD. I am currently looking at job offers throughout the county. Rarely does the fact that I'm a DO play a role. I have had multiple offers throughout the country ranging from 450-700K guaranteed first 1-2 years then it switches to a production model. Obviously the higher paying jobs are in a more rural setting. Needless to say, you do not need to worry about finding a position at all as a DO orthopedic surgeon. As an orthopod we are one of the highest money makers for hospitals, so many smaller communities are looking to add orthopedic positions. There is a larger demand for othopods than current orthopedic surgeons. A few of my friends have found positions in smaller towns (20-30K population with a larger geographic footprint into the 60-70K population) that have had their student loans paid off with guaranteed salaries in the 500-600s. There are so many options for different types of salary structures it would take a large post to discuss them all. Just know you won't struggle to find positions at all - it just comes down to where you want your salary to be and how you want to practice (private vs large group vs hospital employed). The field is GREEN!

However, I am not looking at academic positions at Universities or big name hospitals so I cannot speak for that. Likely if this interests you, a fellowship at a well known program with lots of research publications will help you. I went into this knowing I wanted to be a surgeon in a smaller community of around 100K.

 

[Moose A Moose]

You want ortho? Apply to every single residency you can afford, especially the AOA programs. Make sure to ask if they're on their way to accreditation as well- you don't want to be given the boot two years into training.

 

[sudo]

How do DO orthopedic programs view an applicant who has an average (560s) COMLEX Level 1 but 240s USMLE Step 1? I'm still trying to decide between specialties as a M3 and have been curious if my numbers would even be competitive for ortho residency programs - MD or DO.

 

[cgk]

Osteopathic orthopedic outlook?? -- VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD. I am currently looking at job offers throughout the county. Rarely does the fact that I'm a DO play a role. I have had multiple offers throughout the country ranging from 450-700K guaranteed first 1-2 years then it switches to a production model. Obviously the higher paying jobs are in a more rural setting. Needless to say, you do not need to worry about finding a position at all as a DO orthopedic surgeon. As an orthopod we are one of the highest money makers for hospitals, so many smaller communities are looking to add orthopedic positions. There is a larger demand for othopods than current orthopedic surgeons. A few of my friends have found positions in smaller towns (20-30K population with a larger geographic footprint into the 60-70K population) that have had their student loans paid off with guaranteed salaries in the 500-600s. There are so many options for different types of salary structures it would take a large post to discuss them all. Just know you won't struggle to find positions at all - it just comes down to where you want your salary to be and how you want to practice (private vs large group vs hospital employed). The field is GREEN!

However, I am not looking at academic positions at Universities or big name hospitals so I cannot speak for that. Likely if this interests you, a fellowship at a well known program with lots of research publications will help you. I went into this knowing I wanted to be a surgeon in a smaller community of around 100K.

So basically you are saying that jobs are plentiful in small rural areas, but mostly non existent in large metropolitan areas. Correct?

 

[OrthoPathic]

Graduates of my program have found jobs in LA, Seattle, Vegas, NYC, Chicago just to name a few. There's plenty of jobs out there my friend, but as with all specialties, you take a pay cut for the saturated markets.

 

[cgk]

Graduates of my program have found jobs in LA, Seattle, Vegas, NYC, Chicago just to name a few. There's plenty of jobs out there my friend, but as with all specialties, you take a pay cut for the saturated markets.

Did they do Fellowships?

 

[Orthojoe]

So basically you are saying that jobs are plentiful in small rural areas, but mostly non existent in large metropolitan areas. Correct?

No.. please re-read my post. I have focused most of my job searching in metropolitan areas <200K so I cannot make good accurate statements on jobs in larger cities. As stated by OrthoPathic there are plenty of inter-city jobs but likely will have a smaller pay scale due to the competitiveness. Just a cursory glance at jobs available in larger metropolitan areas I see cleveland, columbus, las vegas, new york, charlotte, san antonio, atlanta -- geez i could go on and on.

Likely due to the competitiveness of these markets a fellowship would help set you apart. In academics positions fellowships are a must

 

[OrthoPathic]

Yes, all fellowships. It's hard to be in a large metro area and not be fellowship trained. The trend seems to be large multispecialty practices in big cities. It'd be hard to cater yourself to a truly general orthopedic surgeon practice in a big city. Keep in mind though, all ortho fellowships are only a year long.

 

[DarkHorizon]

No.. please re-read my post. I have focused most of my job searching in metropolitan areas <200K so I cannot make good accurate statements on jobs in larger cities. As stated by OrthoPathic there are plenty of inter-city jobs but likely will have a smaller pay scale due to the competitiveness. Just a cursory glance at jobs available in larger metropolitan areas I see cleveland, columbus, las vegas, new york, charlotte, san antonio, atlanta -- geez i could go on and on.

Likely due to the competitiveness of these markets a fellowship would help set you apart. In academics positions fellowships are a must

you doing a fellowship Joe? BTW your research fellow is a smart dude, he should get a spot this year.

 

[UNDADAWG]

Thanks Jet616. I would like to know some specific information.
Is there places I should avoid with my score?
What places are considered top, mid , low tier programs if they are?
Places I might be able to get interviews without auditions