Osteopathic EM programs

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Love getting a text from my future PD that we just got ACGME accredited!


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MelMcT2009 said:
Is there a way to know which of these programs will be participating in the ACGME match? Most of these aren't listed on FREIDA yet
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All programs that say "pre-accreditation or continued pre-accreditation" are not ACGME accredited yet and can only participate in the AOA match.

All programs with "initial accreditation" are now ACGME. They can participate in the ACGME match. Programs that are 3 years have to only do the ACGME match (since AOA doesn't allow for 3 year residencies). Programs that are 4 years can participate in both matches technically. Unfortunately, the list doesn't say which programs are 4 vs 3, and that's something you'll have to search out on your own via their websites.
 
Dr.TurkandJD said:
What does "continued pre-accreditation" mean?


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Pre-accreditted means you filled out the application.
To get "initial accredidation" you then have to have a site visit and be approved by the RRC.
Continued pre-accredidation means you had an RRC site visit but didn't get approved by the RRC to get accredited. You have to have another site visit again and try again next year.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Pre-accreditted means you filled out the application.
To get "initial accredidation" you then have to have a site visit and be approved by the RRC.
Continued pre-accredidation means you had an RRC site visit but didn't get approved by the RRC to get accredited. You have to have another site visit again and try again next year.
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Follow up question, so if a program doesn't get approved and has the "continued" status, the next time they will have an update is April 2018? So these programs will for sure be in the AOA match in 2018 if this is the case.
 
emergencywv said:
Follow up question, so if a program doesn't get approved and has the "continued" status, the next time they will have an update is April 2018? So these programs will for sure be in the AOA match in 2018 if this is the case.
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No, they have more than one meeting a year. They meet again in the fall and in the winter I think.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
No, they have more than one meeting a year. They meet again in the fall and in the winter I think.
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So if the next RRC meeting isn't until the fall, wouldn't it be safe to say any program that does not currently have initial accreditation will not be able to participate in the ACGME match?


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What does it mean if it says "Initial Accreditation Contingent upon Sponsoring Institution Initial Accreditation?" What sponsoring institution needs to receive initial accreditation? Is that the school that sponsors the program?
 
rkmoto121 said:
What does it mean if it says "Initial Accreditation Contingent upon Sponsoring Institution Initial Accreditation?" What sponsoring institution needs to receive initial accreditation? Is that the school that sponsors the program?
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Thats what I was thinking, but I wasnt sure when I saw that earlier today.
 
If you go here:

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

Then, in the advanced search part, put the state where the program you are interested in is located. Find your program's hospital in the results, then click "view sponsor", scroll to the bottom of the page, select the EM program at that institution and towards the bottom of the next page it will say what length that program is accredited for. That way you can see if the program you are in to is going to be 3 or 4 years.
 
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I wonder how many of the programs that currently have "continued pre-accreditation or pre-accredited" will not get approved and will cease to exist in a year or two.


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Well, they can still exist. Any resident they match can finish out their residency, even if they finish after 2020. That was an recent agreement between the AOA/ACGME. AOA will still accredit the programs that are going away until the last class graduates. You would hope the programs would do the right thing, and if they aren't actually planning to legitimately switch over, they'd stop taking match classes, but technically they can keep matching in the AOA match now until 2019, then just let those classes ride out their four years.
 
That's interesting. Even though their current residents can finish off, how many of these continued pre-acc programs will stop taking new residents come 2020?


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All of them. You can't take new residents after the merger deadline passes if not ACGME accreditted. They just created a way to allow people to finish that already matched under the AOA. Programs could still choose to shut down though. If they dont get accreditted, they may decide the cost of running the residency isn't worth it just to let the last class or two finish out. Paying all the faculty, program coordinator, having to add all kinds of staffing to run the ED (since you aren't matching new residents, just letting the ones there finish). I could see some administrators deciding to go down the route of closing the doors instead anyways.
 
Wonder if someone is in continued pre-acc if they will end up changing whatever caused them to fail, in order to pass. Or if they will ultimately end up closing.


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I plan to apply to AOA, but i'm scared that in the next meeting some of them will convert to three years mid application cycle and then that's one less program that I can apply to. Some of the programs that didn't gain the "initial accreditation" seemed like solid programs, which leads me to assume they applied as four year programs an acgme said no.

another matter that's confusing is, we don't know which one of these four year program with initial accreditation will be in aoa match or acgme match. I called multiple newly accredited four year programs and the coordinator was not able to answer the question because they don't know yet. It's frustrating being in the middle of this transition. Excuse my venting :(
 
emergencywv said:
I plan to apply to AOA, but i'm scared that in the next meeting some of them will convert to three years mid application cycle and then that's one less program that I can apply to. Some of the programs that didn't gain the "initial accreditation" seemed like solid programs, which leads me to assume they applied as four year programs an acgme said no.

another matter that's confusing is, we don't know which one of these four year program with initial accreditation will be in aoa match or acgme match. I called multiple newly accredited four year programs and the coordinator was not able to answer the question because they don't know yet. It's frustrating being in the middle of this transition. Excuse my venting :(
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Correct, although my guess is, they'll mostly stick with the AOA match. They don't have to compete with 200 other residencies if they stick to the AOA match, they only have to compete with about 30 or so, if that. So logically, I'd guess most programs that stay 4 years who gain initial accredidation will stick to the AOA match until the last gasps of that match.
 
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Do you guys think that November is too late to complete an audition rotation? I have 2 ER rotations set up and I want to do one more. I am hoping that November isn't too late since it'll might right before rank season starts but just want to confirm before I give them a yes to scheduling the rotation!
 
dx9618 said:
Do you guys think that November is too late to complete an audition rotation? I have 2 ER rotations set up and I want to do one more. I am hoping that November isn't too late since it'll might right before rank season starts but just want to confirm before I give them a yes to scheduling the rotation!
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Nope, absolutely not too late. As long as you get in your two SLOEs earlier, then in my opinion, no third audition month is too late as long as its before the end of interviews/rank list season, so basically the end of December (for AOA) or January (for ACGME).
 
Sounds great, thanks! I have 2 other auditions that I will get SLOE's from in august/September.
 
Hey guys, anyone have any idea what some less competitive programs are?
I have a couple of programs listed that have >500 cutoff that I'm not even going to bother wasting an app fee on, wonder if there are any others I should add to the do not apply list (arrowhead, Arizona, Florida, Einstein).

Currently have two auditions set up for inspira and Good Samaritan (which apparently is competitive?)


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Dannyboy676 said:
Hey guys, anyone have any idea what some less competitive programs are?
I have a couple of programs listed that have >500 cutoff that I'm not even going to bother wasting an app fee on, wonder if there are any others I should add to the do not apply list (arrowhead, Arizona, Florida, Einstein).

Currently have two auditions set up for inspira and Good Samaritan (which apparently is competitive?)


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I don't know much about inspira.

Good Samaritan has a >500 cutoff, but will make exceptions if you are exceptionally good on a audition. They are also in the ACGME match for this coming year, so things may become more competitive.
 
NYEMMED said:
I don't know much about inspira.

Good Samaritan has a >500 cutoff, but will make exceptions if you are exceptionally good on a audition. They are also in the ACGME match for this coming year, so things may become more competitive.
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Really?
Fml.
It's my last audition so hopefully I'll be able to really shine


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gamerEMdoc said:
Anytime! When I was in med school (allopathic big university based place), there were unlimited advisors no matter what you wanted to go into. You picked the field, walked down the hall to the department, and had 20 academic faculty to pick from. Having worked at an AOA residency before we switched over to ACGME, one that still is predominantly DO in its makeup and the students that rotate here, I've realized that many if not most of the osteopathic students interested in EM don't have any opportunity like I had when it comes to advising and mentoring. Sure they talk to residents or ED docs they work with, but many don't have a solid adviser they can go to when it comes to getting honest and constructive career advice. So I do this. Its quite rewarding to help students to navigate the match, the merger, choosing a residency, etc. I helped a ton of students this year, and hopefully next year its even more. I honestly don't care if I get 500 students asking me advice. The more the merrier.

Happy New Year all!
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Thank you so much for your eagerness to help.
Will be sending you a PM shortly as my school doesn't have a solid advisor. All we have is our clinical dean which just shoves family medicine down our throats.


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Has anybody contacted and got a reply from Desert Regional in CA? I have sent them a few emails with no response over the past month or so.


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rkmoto121 said:
Has anybody contacted and got a reply from Desert Regional in CA? I have sent them a few emails with no response over the past month or so.


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They rejected me after I patiently waited for over a month.


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4th year here, matched EM. Just my two cents, I would not limit myself to applying to only "less competitive programs" because of x, y, z. Apply broadly, do your audition rotations where you want to get facetime and potentially an interview. Now is not the time to "save money" on apps. It's a drop in the bucket and the worst thing you could do is limit your applications, not get enough interviews and potentially not match.

Dannyboy676 said:
Hey guys, anyone have any idea what some less competitive programs are?
I have a couple of programs listed that have >500 cutoff that I'm not even going to bother wasting an app fee on, wonder if there are any others I should add to the do not apply list (arrowhead, Arizona, Florida, Einstein).

Currently have two auditions set up for inspira and Good Samaritan (which apparently is competitive?)


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You're right. But it's quite frustrating when people reject audition requests based on your scores.


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Dannyboy676 said:
Hey guys, anyone have any idea what some less competitive programs are?
I have a couple of programs listed that have >500 cutoff that I'm not even going to bother wasting an app fee on, wonder if there are any others I should add to the do not apply list (arrowhead, Arizona, Florida, Einstein).

Currently have two auditions set up for inspira and Good Samaritan (which apparently is competitive?)


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Arizona (kingman) is funny. I got silent rejected by them with good scores. Ended up ACGME so it all worked out


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I hear you. But it's not the end of the world. You've got 2 solid auditions at Inspira and Good Sam. I'd also recommend considering VSAS for Lehigh Valley and/or Einstein --- you could get solid letters from there, and likely an interview (they typically extend interviews to the top applicants as well as rotators).

Dannyboy676 said:
You're right. But it's quite frustrating when people reject audition requests based on your scores.


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highly recommend Southeastern Health in North Carolina. High acuity, tons of penetrating trauma, no trauma team, tons of procedures, great faculty/residents, ACGME accredited.
 
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Lehigh has a min I don't meet if I recall correctly.


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Working on st Joseph's who's vsas still hasn't opened and Rowan at the moment.


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Dr.TurkandJD said:
highly recommend Southeastern Health in North Carolina. High acuity, tons of penetrating trauma, no trauma team, tons of procedures, great faculty/residents, ACGME accredited.
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I'll look into it.

Any recommendations from all of the Michigan programs?


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Dannyboy676 said:
I'll look into it.

Any recommendations from all of the Michigan programs?


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I've interviewed/rotated at a bunch Michigan programs, the ones I had exposure too I wasn't too fond off. I like McLarens a lot.


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Dr.TurkandJD said:
I've interviewed/rotated at a bunch Michigan programs, the ones I had exposure too I wasn't too fond off. I like McLarens a lot.


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Any chance you want to give a run down of the places you went and the impression you got from them? Most of the reviews of places are super old so it would be really helpful!
 
Dannyboy676 said:
I'll look into it.

Any recommendations from all of the Michigan programs?


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I loved Henry Ford Wyandotte. All the residents were awesome and seemed happy to be there. Also saw some crazy stuff!
 
EM-SLG said:
I loved Henry Ford Wyandotte. All the residents were awesome and seemed happy to be there. Also saw some crazy stuff!
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They also do 22 12's a month. I thought their residents, especially PGY1's were unhappy. Just my 2c


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Anyone know when there will be an updated list on all the programs that are remaining in the AOA match for the upcoming cycle?
 
What does one do when you just don''t hear back from a program via email and they simply don't answer the phone or return messages.
Super unprofessional...at least say no.
 
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