ortho chances

[TheFrenchie]

Was wondering what my chance are? Concerned due to my clinical grades, and lack of a published paper. Thanks for the feedback!

Current MS3
School Rank: Top 5
Preclinical grades: Pass/fail
Step 1: 251
Clinical grades: H/P/F system. Historically difficult to honor. H in Surg. P in IM, Peds, FamMed. Waiting on Neuro/Psych and still have OBGyn pending .
Research: 5 abstracts accepted to major conferences. 3 of them are 1st author. Presented two posters at two different school symposiums. No publications.

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[massmocha]

Was wondering what my chance are? Concerned due to my clinical grades, and lack of a published paper. Thanks for the feedback!

Current MS3
School Rank: Top 5
Preclinical grades: Pass/fail
Step 1: 251
Clinical grades: H/P/F system. Historically difficult to honor. H in Surg. P in IM, Peds, FamMed. Waiting on Neuro/Psych and still have OBGyn pending .
Research: 5 abstracts accepted to major conferences. 3 of them are 1st author. Presented two posters at two different school symposiums. No publications.

Work on getting those posters published. Do 3 aways and find out what you have to do to honor some of those rotations.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Was wondering what my chance are? Concerned due to my clinical grades, and lack of a published paper. Thanks for the feedback!

Current MS3
School Rank: Top 5
Preclinical grades: Pass/fail
Step 1: 251
Clinical grades: H/P/F system. Historically difficult to honor. H in Surg. P in IM, Peds, FamMed. Waiting on Neuro/Psych and still have OBGyn pending .
Research: 5 abstracts accepted to major conferences. 3 of them are 1st author. Presented two posters at two different school symposiums. No publications.

Decent step one which should get you interviews. But you'll probably have to answer for why you only passed so many clinicals. Focus on your away rotations as that's the biggest thing that will influence your chances to match.

 

[hunterjumper14]

Thoughts?

MS3, female, at a state school
Preclinical: about 1/2 honors, 1/2 pass
Step 1: 242-244
Clinicals: 2/2 honors so far (family, IM. I'm on surgery now)
Research: (all ortho basic science)
-*hopefully* 1st author publication by time of application
- Podium presentation (1st author) at international conference
-1st author poster at a different international conference
- 3rd author-ish on 2 other posters at conferences
- A few smaller things: school research awards for posters, presenting at the department's research day with residents/fellows, and a med student conference podium presentation, above posters presented at "research days" at a hospital in our system

I have a 2 week rotation in ortho coming up. I'm hoping to get hooked into some more clinical type research with a faculty member, because all of my research has been translational basic science with a Ph.D. mentor.

Thanks everyone!!

Edited to add: I'm not opposed to taking a research year if needed... What are my chances with/without one?

Just to update people and help others gauge where they stand: I took step 2 in May and score was available to programs (260-265). Didn't have any more research other than those listed above (1st author pub was submitted but not accepted when ERAS went out). Rotated at home program and did 3 aways, 1 at "top tier" place, 1 at a very academic-y program (though not top 10) and one other academic program. Applied to ~120 programs, received 33 interview invites, attended 19. Ranked 19, matched to #1. Good luck to everyone during this upcoming subI/application cycle!

 

[Sthpawslugger]

Just to update people and help others gauge where they stand: I took step 2 in May and score was available to programs (260-265). Didn't have any more research other than those listed above (1st author pub was submitted but not accepted when ERAS went out). Rotated at home program and did 3 aways, 1 at "top tier" place, 1 at a very academic-y program (though not top 10) and one other academic program. Applied to ~120 programs, received 33 interview invites, attended 19. Ranked 19, matched to #1. Good luck to everyone during this upcoming subI/application cycle!

120?? Holy ****. How much did that cost you? Incoming D.O. student, future ortho hopeful here. Congrats btw.

 

[hunterjumper14]

120?? Holy ****. How much did that cost you? Incoming D.O. student, future ortho hopeful here. Congrats btw.

I was advised to apply to 80 (and on the interview trail that seemed like the advice given to many applicants at many schools nationwide). I freaked out when it came time to submit ERAS and decided it was better to have too many interviews than too few. I don't have the exact figure but it was around $3k. I was worried about the logistics of scheduling interviews (since some places have 1 or 2 interview date options), so I reasoned that if I had more offers I could make it to more interviews in the 2 month period of time. It was overkill in retrospect, but I didn't want to look back and wish I had applied to more programs.

 

[tty2]

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[cpinkows]

...

 

[TheOther]

Hey I'm wondering if a 237 step 1 as a US MD is competitive for ortho? thanks

According to the 2016 Charting Outcomes, the mean score for US MD students who matched ortho was 247. The mean score for those who didn't match was 238.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

Hey I'm wondering if a 237 step 1 as a US MD is competitive for ortho? thanks

According to the 2016 Charting Outcomes, the mean score for US MD students who matched ortho was 247. The mean score for those who didn't match was 238.

108/152 (~70%) matched with a score in the 230s.

 

[WastedTime]

Chances at AOA ortho residency with a 563?

 

[Dr Blue]

hi all. finished IM recently, didn't do so hot on the shelf. good clinical evals but may end with a P. Top 10 med school, haven't taken step 1 yet, 1 honors so far. screwed for ortho with a P in IM?

 

[VincentAdultman]

hi all. finished IM recently, didn't do so hot on the shelf. good clinical evals but may end with a P. Top 10 med school, haven't taken step 1 yet, 1 honors so far. screwed for ortho with a P in IM?

You're not screwed. You have opportunities to make up for it on your other rotations, step one, and away rotations among other things.

 

[massmocha]

hi all. finished IM recently, didn't do so hot on the shelf. good clinical evals but may end with a P. Top 10 med school, haven't taken step 1 yet, 1 honors so far. screwed for ortho with a P in IM?

Agree, really need to crush all other rotations and boards. You should figure out why you didn't do well on the Shelf exam, because if standardized tests are tough for you, you will need to put a lot of extra work into Step studying

 

[frappalino16]

Chances at AOA ortho residency with a 563?

Very difficult, but still possible. Choose your audition rotations wisely (choose non-board heavy programs), kill your auditions, kill your COMLEX level 2.

 

[TheOther]

Very difficult, but still possible. Choose your audition rotations wisely (choose non-board heavy programs), kill your auditions, kill your COMLEX level 2.

What about a 644?

 

[frappalino16]

What about a 644?

Your chances are much better than the previous poster, but I would still give you the same advice. Although your COMLEX level 1 is good, it's not phenomenal amongst the Orthopedic surgery applicant pool.

 

[TheOther]

Your chances are much better than the previous poster, but I would still give you the same advice. Although your COMLEX level 1 is good, it's not phenomenal amongst the Orthopedic surgery applicant pool.

Yeah that's what I figured, thanks for the insight! I appreciate it.

 

[frappalino16]

Just out of curiosity what is a "phenomenal" score?

I'm interested in ortho and have a 700+ COMLEX level 1, 240+ USMLE step 1, top 10% in my class, but no research

Will the lack of research hurt me? I'm actively looking for a project but DO schools aren't the best about getting their students involved.

Also, is it worth rotating at one ACGME program and applying broadly to a ton of MD programs just to see how many interviews I get or is this a fools errand? If I do apply MD how many interviews would I have to go on to feel safe that I would match?

Your scores are good. Oddly enough, my advice doesn't really change. Do well on level 2 and do well on your auditions. your score will probably get you many interviews at programs you don't rotate at, but at the end of the day, your best chances are most likely going to be at programs you audition at

 

[Newyawk]

This might be a silly Q, but does anyone know the qualifications of matched med students to programs like HSS, etc.?
Do they all have impeccable portfolios?

 

[ADME1313]

This might be a silly Q, but does anyone know the qualifications of matched med students to programs like HSS, etc.?
Do they all have impeccable portfolios?

To add on to this, is a step score of high 250s without a phd or research year good enough for the top places like HSS, or does one really need to break 260 in order to be competitive?

 

[iceman55]

To add on to this, is a step score of high 250s without a phd or research year good enough for the top places like HSS, or does one really need to break 260 in order to be competitive?

Yeah 250 is good enough but you probably still won't get an interview unless you rotate, have connections, or you are an all around awesome applicant with accolades after accolades or a minority/women with awesome stats and some accolades. And you should also be coming from a decently well known school.


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[hopeful2015]

Slightly complicated situation.

Third year DO student
Step I: 262
COMLEX I: 760
Research: currently two posters that will eventually be publications, working on a third (first author). Neuro-optho
Class rank: 10-15th percentile

The complicated issue is that my SO is also a third year DO (same school) who is interested in psych. We want to be in NY/Philly or California, the problem is that there are only a few AOA psych residencies and their locations don't match up. It's my understanding that we can't couples match with one of us in the AOA match, one in ACGME, and it doesn't seem like we'll have a unified match by 2019.

Would I be competitive at ACGME residencies? Her numbers are pretty competitive for ACGME psych (step I 240, comlex 629). If I choose audition rotations at some of the less competitive ACGME residencies in those areas, is it worthwhile to forgo AOA match so I can couple with her?

 

[frappalino16]

Slightly complicated situation.

Third year DO student
Step I: 262
COMLEX I: 760
Research: currently two posters that will eventually be publications, working on a third (first author). Neuro-optho
Class rank: 10-15th percentile

The complicated issue is that my SO is also a third year DO (same school) who is interested in psych. We want to be in NY/Philly or California, the problem is that there are only a few AOA psych residencies and their locations don't match up. It's my understanding that we can't couples match with one of us in the AOA match, one in ACGME, and it doesn't seem like we'll have a unified match by 2019.

Would I be competitive at ACGME residencies? Her numbers are pretty competitive for ACGME psych (step I 240, comlex 629). If I choose audition rotations at some of the less competitive ACGME residencies in those areas, is it worthwhile to forgo AOA match so I can couple with her?

Your chances are great for the AOA match. Unfortunately, despite your numbers, your chances in the ACGME match are slim to none.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Re reading this thread....I wonder what happened to that poster debridement....seemed like a pretty chill guy.

 

[yankees527]

Applying AOA ortho, how many ortho LOR should we be trying to get?? BTW my school has no ortho chairman -_-

 

[frappalino16]

Applying AOA ortho, how many ortho LOR should we be trying to get?? BTW my school has no ortho chairman -_-

2+ LOR from ortho.

 

[yankees527]

2+ LOR from ortho.

do they usually come from your away rotations?

 

[frappalino16]

do they usually come from your away rotations?

They can. I got one from the institution I spent all of my 3rd year at and another from an away rotation. It really can come from any orthopedic surgeon that is willing to write you a quality LOR

 

[Brorthopedic]

Is anyone familiar with/has gone through the application process for AOA Ortho? If so, could you please message me? I could really use some help/a mentor. I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[canadasmvp]

Hey everybody, thanks for taking the time to do this.

Current MS3
MD state school
Preclinical grades: 4.0
Step I: mid-270s
Clinical grades: H IM
Research: Not a ton of research which I am worried about. One surgical subspecialty project with a manuscript in the works that has had an abstract presented. One other project in same specialty submitted and presented a poster at school symposium. Two case reports published on online journals. Planning on getting into some ortho research soon.

How much is my lack of research going to hurt me and how much can I realistically do in the next year?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Hey everybody, thanks for taking the time to do this.

Current MS3
MD state school
Preclinical grades: 4.0
Step I: mid-270s
Clinical grades: H IM
Research: Not a ton of research which I am worried about. One surgical subspecialty project with a manuscript in the works that has had an abstract presented. One other project in same specialty submitted and presented a poster at school symposium. Two case reports published on online journals. Planning on getting into some ortho research soon.

How much is my lack of research going to hurt me and how much can I realistically do in the next year?

Umm, I think you'll be fine?

 

[netminder]

Umm, I think you'll be fine?

I'm inclined to agree with Pompacil.

 

[DrJaySomeday]

Hey, thanks in advance for any advice anyone may have.

MS3
DO school
Step 1: 250
COMLEX: 739
Research: 9 manuscript pubs (3 JBJS, 4 other ortho high IF, 2 non-ortho, all 1st-3rd author), 6 national presentations (AMA, MSTS, AAOS, AOAO, etc)
Rank: Top 10%
Clinicals: All honors so far.

1. Could use some guidance on whether it's worth it to invest in the ACGME match at all given my research track record.
2. If not, could use some advice on which AOA programs to target, I have a home program but not a ton of mentorship from people who applied/trained broadly, very tightknit home grown program here.

Thanks again.

 

[TheOther]

Hey, thanks in advance for any advice anyone may have.

MS3
DO school
Step 1: 250
COMLEX: 739
Research: 9 manuscript pubs (3 JBJS, 4 other ortho high IF, 2 non-ortho, all 1st-3rd author), 6 national presentations (AMA, MSTS, AAOS, AOAO, etc)
Rank: Top 10%
Clinicals: All honors so far.

1. Could use some guidance on whether it's worth it to invest in the ACGME match at all given my research track record.
2. If not, could use some advice on which AOA programs to target, I have a home program but not a ton of mentorship from people who applied/trained broadly, very tightknit home grown program here.

Thanks again.

Between now and next July (when AOA apps open), a lot may change as far as how many programs receive initial accreditation and participate in both matches. There's 8 so far. This means you could safely apply to "old AOA" programs while reaching for ACGME.

 

[VincentAdultman]

You can but I think programs prefer letters from ortho surgeons. Having said that you can probably still use it provided theres no requirement that the letters HAVE TO COME from ortho surgeons.

When I applied at least one program wanted a letter from a non-ortho.

 

[unoso]

Would appreciate any advice!

Current MS3
Low tier midwest school
Preclinical: two HP, rest H
Clinical: HP in IM, H in elective so far
Step 1: 253
Research: 7 published papers (5 surgical but not ortho, 2 genetics; 5 first author), 3-4 papers being written/submitted (first author on most of them), 9 abstracts (mostly surgical again but not ortho), 2 oral presentations (both surgical but not ortho)

Does it matter that my research is not ortho-specific? Ideally trying to end up at an east coast academic program.

 

[massmocha]

Would appreciate any advice!

Current MS3
Low tier midwest school
Preclinical: two HP, rest H
Clinical: HP in IM, H in elective so far
Step 1: 253
Research: 7 published papers (5 surgical but not ortho, 2 genetics; 5 first author), 3-4 papers being written/submitted (first author on most of them), 9 abstracts (mostly surgical again but not ortho), 2 oral presentations (both surgical but not ortho)

Does it matter that my research is not ortho-specific? Ideally trying to end up at an east coast academic program.

Pretty good app. Are current papers in ortho? It doesn't matter that past research isn't ortho, it will be a little different and interesting for interviewers to listen to. You have demonstrated you are able to succeed with research.

 

[unoso]

Pretty good app. Are current papers in ortho? It doesn't matter that past research isn't ortho, it will be a little different and interesting for interviewers to listen to. You have demonstrated you are able to succeed with research.

Current papers are not in ortho. I have an ortho rotation next, so if I'm fully committed after that I was going to pursue a couple of projects with some of the ortho attendings. Is my step score good enough for big city east coast programs (i.e. NYC, Philly, DC)?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Where do I stand? What to do as I progress forward?

Whatever you've been doing? Keep doing that.

You're biggest hurdle as of now will be away rotations. You honored surgery, so you seem to have an idea as to how to do well on rotations. So keep it up. Work hard, have a positive attitude, and read when you can.

 

[Gorne]

Step 1: 253
I'm 2/2 Honors on my rotations, hoping to honor this one as well if all goes as planned, surgery is next semester.
The only research project I worked one was not published, however I did present it at a conference, and was in another surgical subspecialty.

Step 2 will hopefully be 250+ as well, but obviously that's up in the air.

How necessary is research at this point if I'm strongly considering Jefferson, BU, UTSW, Baylor, NYU, Tufts?

 

[masaraksh]

Step 1: 253
I'm 2/2 Honors on my rotations, hoping to honor this one as well if all goes as planned, surgery is next semester.
The only research project I worked one was not published, however I did present it at a conference, and was in another surgical subspecialty.

Step 2 will hopefully be 250+ as well, but obviously that's up in the air.

How necessary is research at this point if I'm strongly considering Jefferson, BU, UTSW, Baylor, NYU, Tufts?

Applying this season, I'd say most applicants from the looks of things are 'strongly considering' ~80 programs. Its a small field, programs are small with ~500-900 apps for 4-8 spots. Its hard to know where you'll even get interviews.

I don't know much about what PDs look for and whatnot, but I'm sure a little research gains never hurt anyone..

 

[VincentAdultman]

Step 1: 253
I'm 2/2 Honors on my rotations, hoping to honor this one as well if all goes as planned, surgery is next semester.
The only research project I worked one was not published, however I did present it at a conference, and was in another surgical subspecialty.

Step 2 will hopefully be 250+ as well, but obviously that's up in the air.

How necessary is research at this point if I'm strongly considering Jefferson, BU, UTSW, Baylor, NYU, Tufts?

If you're a MS3 I'm not sure how much substantial research you're going to get at this point given the fact that you have less than a year before your applications go out. That being said it's not too late to get started helping on some research in your ortho department. It may not be a first author but you'll check the box and hopefully have something to discuss on interviews.

The most important things that go into matching are 1. Doing an away rotation and 2. Your step one score.

 

[UGA Non Trad]

.

 

[babinski2020]

Mid Tier US MD with a strong ortho program
Step 1: high 250s
pre-clinical all honors
clinical: medicine and surgery honors
Research:

• One first author publication in good journal (expected, based on what the attendings are saying. Not published yet)
• One first author case series in mediocre journal
• two published book chapters
• second author on several projects that have gotten abstracts and posters

My questions: I want to do academics, and many the programs in the cities in which I want to be (philly, NYC) are very competitive (NYU, HSS, rothman, penn)
1) Assuming I continue to grind until application time with research, are these programs within reach?
2) Would doing a dedicated research year significantly improve my chances at these kind of programs?

Thanks

 

[OrbitalOverload]

Mid Tier US MD with a strong ortho program
Step 1: high 250s
pre-clinical all honors
clinical: medicine and surgery honors
Research:

• One first author publication in good journal (expected, based on what the attendings are saying. Not published yet)
• One first author case series in mediocre journal
• two published book chapters
• second author on several projects that have gotten abstracts and posters

My questions: I want to do academics, and many the programs in the cities in which I want to be (philly, NYC) are very competitive (NYU, HSS, rothman, penn)
1) Assuming I continue to grind until application time with research, are these programs within reach?
2) Would doing a dedicated research year significantly improve my chances at these kind of programs?

Thanks

bump

 

[VincentAdultman]

1. Yes

2 I don't think so because research doesn't seem to be a weak point on your app.

 

[VincentAdultman]

bump

I knew a guy who ended up in ortho after wanting urology so not impossible. Your score seems middle of the road for people who matched in 2016. You should try to get involved with some ortho research before you apply. Talk to people in your ortho department. Like most people, it'll make probably come down to always.

 

[brortho_paedics]

hi squad. wanted to know my chances

Mid Tier US MD State school
Step 1: 252
Step 2: not taken yet
Preclinicals: P/F. Was Q1 in M1 when it was ranked, then became true PF so probably in middle (focused on step)
Clinicals: P in OB (hated it), Pass in medicine (shocked, 90% on shelf), HP peds (no one got H in my group according to the chair). Hopefully will have H in Surgery. Hopefully H in Neuro/Psych/EM/Family as they are "easier" @ my school.
AOA: Unlikely
Research: 4 pubs in ortho (1 first author, 1 basic science, 2 chart reviews) so far. Many accepted abstracts (probably 3-5, related to the projects above), 3 presentations (2 @ med school, 1 at a conference).

Idk. I'm a pretty middle of the pack applicant compared to all you SDN and reddit people who are 260s and AOA/great grades. I feel like my medicine score doomed my application, missed the HP cuttoff by 1 point (will try to get it bumped up). I give my rotations everything I have, but I am just not doing well and I know how important m3 is for ortho.

We have to apply for aways soon. Should I even bother? I love ortho but I just feel like that pass in medicine (assuming I can't get it bumped up) is going to tank my application at even remotely good places. Any input would be amazing. Thanks all

 

[VincentAdultman]

hi squad. wanted to know my chances

Mid Tier US MD State school
Step 1: 252
Step 2: not taken yet
Preclinicals: P/F. Was Q1 in M1 when it was ranked, then became true PF so probably in middle (focused on step)
Clinicals: P in OB (hated it), Pass in medicine (shocked, 90% on shelf), HP peds (no one got H in my group according to the chair). Hopefully will have H in Surgery. Hopefully H in Neuro/Psych/EM/Family as they are "easier" @ my school.
AOA: Unlikely
Research: 4 pubs in ortho (1 first author, 1 basic science, 2 chart reviews) so far. Many accepted abstracts (probably 3-5, related to the projects above), 3 presentations (2 @ med school, 1 at a conference).

Idk. I'm a pretty middle of the pack applicant compared to all you SDN and reddit people who are 260s and AOA/great grades. I feel like my medicine score doomed my application, missed the HP cuttoff by 1 point (will try to get it bumped up). I give my rotations everything I have, but I am just not doing well and I know how important m3 is for ortho.

We have to apply for aways soon. Should I even bother? I love ortho but I just feel like that pass in medicine (assuming I can't get it bumped up) is going to tank my application at even remotely good places. Any input would be amazing. Thanks all

Ugh.

You "love ortho" but you don't know if you should bother because you got a "pass" in medicine? FFS man you haven't even finished third year.

I mean yeah it's gonna be a red flag but it's not something that can't be overcome by your step one score, doing well on your surgery rotation and picking well thought-out away rotations and doing well in those.