(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[Fpg1245]

There is certainly a chance. I find it is always more complicated when you are already a resident, you will need to discuss this with your PD if you are serious about making the change (I would not have this conversation though until you are absolutely certain). You'll likely need to have a conversation with your GME office as well to discuss funding issues.

You can try applying directly (if there is a home department within the same system as your current residency, it would be a good place to start. I would check with the PD to see how competitive you would be) and taking your chances.

Most consider taking a year off to do some rotations, get some exposure and some LORs. It is a good opportunity to get some research in as well.

I think inertia is probably the biggest deterrent. Even after doing all that (including taking the year off), there is no guarantee of matching so many residents end up just staying with their original field. It is still early in your PGY2 year, are you certain rad-onc isn't right for you?

No the PD is not aware at this time. Inertia is certainly the biggest deterrent. I would love to just hunker down do my reading learn, appreciate what I'm doing and be good at it like every other resident. It has truly impacted my ability to focus and read. They always said if you really loved a field you stick with it. Well to be honest, I never really had those feelings for any field. I just thought rad-onc had an interesting approach to treating cancer and that it might be enjoyable especially with the emphasis on physics. I realized there would be geographic constraints but not to the extent they are now. I have spoken to others in my field about my doubts but like me they cannot predict the future with any certainty and have not really made any strong indications about what I should do. Based on the journal articles that come out in Red Journal, it seems that all anyone wants to do is find a reason not to give radiation. There's a concerted effort it seems make it irrelevant.

I don't go to a particularly competitive program but we do have a dermatology program as well which we interface with regularly especially with our sarcoma, and squamous pts. I thought about taking a year off to do research given the competitive nature of dermatology. Im looking to stay in one area for family reasons. I was hoping, perhaps foolishly, to leverage my research in oncology and not need to spend a year in research.

It's a heavy weight to have to bear. It really has impacted my ability to truly immerse myself in the content which is what I think all residents should do. I did not Anticipated in my wildest imagination that I would have such doubts and yet here I am. Clear answers in short supply.

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[asmallchild]

No the PD is not aware at this time. Inertia is certainly the biggest deterrent. I would love to just hunker down do my reading learn, appreciate what I'm doing and be good at it like every other resident. It has truly impacted my ability to focus and read. They always said if you really loved a field you stick with it. Well to be honest, I never really had those feelings for any field. I just thought rad-onc had an interesting approach to treating cancer and that it might be enjoyable especially with the emphasis on physics. I realized there would be geographic constraints but not to the extent they are now. I have spoken to others in my field about my doubts but like me they cannot predict the future with any certainty and have not really made any strong indications about what I should do. Based on the journal articles that come out in Red Journal, it seems that all anyone wants to do is find a reason not to give radiation. There's a concerted effort it seems make it irrelevant.

I don't go to a particularly competitive program but we do have a dermatology program as well which we interface with regularly especially with our sarcoma, and squamous pts. I thought about taking a year off to do research given the competitive nature of dermatology. Im looking to stay in one area for family reasons. I was hoping, perhaps foolishly, to leverage my research in oncology and not need to spend a year in research.

It's a heavy weight to have to bear. It really has impacted my ability to truly immerse myself in the content which is what I think all residents should do. I did not Anticipated in my wildest imagination that I would have such doubts and yet here I am. Clear answers in short supply.

I would have a casual conversation with your dermatology PD to see how competitive you would be and perhaps, if there are any openings outside of the match for you.

Short of that, I would think you would need to re-enter the match and that means needing LORs from dermatologists. That's usually why people need to take a year off as you'll need the time to make connections via research and via rotations.

 

[snowys435]

I think you have to figure out what you want and how badly you want it.

It sounds like you want to do derm. Your Step 1 score is good. You'll need to do better clinically. You'll need to get some research under your belt. It isn't easy juggling clinical rotations with research, perhaps you could look into taking a year off for research? Geographic constraints don't help but as part of taking a year off for research, you may consider doing so in one of those major cities so that you will have a better chance of matching the area. You'll need to juggle the risk of not matching or the costs of taking a year off. If you want it badly enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

Conversely, maybe derm is just a passing interest? I don't think you would have any difficulty matching into FM and in a location of your choice. Perhaps that would be the safer way to go if grinding through the remainder of med scohol, taking a year off, or potentially going unmatched do not sound like palatable options.

Perhaps you can do both? Apply for derm as your first choice and family medicine as your second choice.

How difficult is it to match any of the california derm programs? are they all very very competitive? Is it even ridiculous to think that would be a possibility with a research year out there?

 

[asmallchild]

How difficult is it to match any of the california derm programs? are they all very very competitive? Is it even ridiculous to think that would be a possibility with a research year out there?

It depends on what kind of applicant you are. If everything looks great and you've got connections, I still wouldn't say it's easy but you have a shot.

If your application has some weaknesses and you have no connection to California, you may not even get interview invites.

In general, yes, you are talking about one of the most competitive fields in one of the most competitive locations.

I wouldn't say you absolutely needed a research year but if you are that geographically constrained, then yes, I would do a research year with a California program that has a history of taking its own research fellows. (Or if it's that rigid where you cannot do residency outside of California, you may need to start looking at another field. Residency is short. I would focus on getting in, getting through 3 years, and then you can move wherever you want)

 

[bluenevus]

What is an acceptable number of PYs/TYs to have applied to? I applied to ~20 and was basically told by an administrator, "WTF, you need to apply to many more." Past applicants from my school who were similar to me stats-wise, etc. (e.g. AOA, top 5%) applied to no more than 10 and matched at their top choice. I'm wondering if my school's administration is being VERY cautious, which I understand, or if I'm actually in deep trouble. Lots of conflicting opinions. Anyway, I just applied to 15 more programs that apparently have not released their interview dates yet (per SDN's forum), but it's the end of October now after all. FWIW, I have (only?) received four PY/TY interviews so far. Thanks for your advice!

 

[asmallchild]

What is an acceptable number of PYs/TYs to have applied to? I applied to ~20 and was basically told by an administrator, "WTF, you need to apply to many more." Past applicants from my school who were similar to me stats-wise, etc. (e.g. AOA, top 5%) applied to no more than 10 and matched at their top choice. I'm wondering if my school's administration is being VERY cautious, which I understand, or if I'm actually in deep trouble. Lots of conflicting opinions. Anyway, I just applied to 15 more programs that apparently have not released their interview dates yet (per SDN's forum), but it's the end of October now after all. FWIW, I have (only?) received four PY/TY interviews so far. Thanks for your advice!

Unless things have changed, 20 is already overkill.

If you are applying to very competitive PYs/TYs, then yes, you may want to apply to 20. I still would not recommend interviewing with 20 as you will burn out before the interviews that really count.

 

[bluenevus]

Unless things have changed, 20 is already overkill.

If you are applying to very competitive PYs/TYs, then yes, you may want to apply to 20. I still would not recommend interviewing with 20 as you will burn out before the interviews that really count.

Thank you for the validation! The PYs/TYs that I applied to are mostly smaller community programs within a four-hour car drive of my city. I did not apply to many truly competitive PYs/TYs since I'm geographically limited.

We receive so much conflicting advice, and it's hard figuring out what's real and what's hyperbole. I definitely don't plan on going to that many interviews. I was genuinely panic-stricken that I wasn't going to match into a prelim program because the admin said I applied to too few.

 

[dermie1985]

Unless things have changed, 20 is already overkill.

If you are applying to very competitive PYs/TYs, then yes, you may want to apply to 20. I still would not recommend interviewing with 20 as you will burn out before the interviews that really count.

20 is the right number. If you're applying in derm it means you're a strong candidate. There is no price difference between applying to 1 TY/1 PY-Medicine and 10 TYs/10 PYs-Medicine, so 20 is the right number. I wouldn't go on that many interviews though. I applied to 20. Got about 15 interviews. Went on 10. I thought 10 was overkill (almost everyone I know got #1 for their intern year on match).

Go on all derm interviews though (unless schedule conflicts). You definitely can't expect to get your #1 or even #2 or #3 in derm.

 

[player2hasenteredthegame]

M3
School: Mid-level state school.
Step 1: 260
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet.
Class rank: Not sure, but definitely good chance of AOA.
Pre-clinical: weird to explain. Started with 2Ps and worked up to Hs towards the end of MS1. Top 15% for all MS2 courses but 1
Clinic: 2 HPs (out of 2 completed)
Research: Some posters/conferences/working on publication for derm. Some non-derm poster/conferences as well. Working on more once I start my derm rotation
Extras: On executive board for school's DIG every year so far. Heavily involved in other aspects of school (SGA, Alumni Assc, Dean's council, etc) and good volunteering/tutoring amount.

How possible is it, given my stats? What should I work in? Best advise to get clinical grades up (seems that at my school the subjective tasks knock you down from H to HP). Goal is to get into NE or Mid-Atlantic program. Thanks in advance!

 

[asmallchild]

M3
School: Mid-level state school.
Step 1: 260
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet.
Class rank: Not sure, but definitely good chance of AOA.
Pre-clinical: weird to explain. Started with 2Ps and worked up to Hs towards the end of MS1. Top 15% for all MS2 courses but 1
Clinic: 2 HPs (out of 2 completed)
Research: Some posters/conferences/working on publication for derm. Some non-derm poster/conferences as well. Working on more once I start my derm rotation
Extras: On executive board for school's DIG every year so far. Heavily involved in other aspects of school (SGA, Alumni Assc, Dean's council, etc) and good volunteering/tutoring amount.

How possible is it, given my stats? What should I work in? Best advise to get clinical grades up (seems that at my school the objective tasks knock you down from H to HP). Goal is to get into NE or Mid-Atlantic program. Thanks in advance!

You are doing all the right things. I would continue to work on the research.

Getting the clinical grades up can be tricky from school to school. If the objective tasks are knocking you down, I don't know what else to tell you other than to buckle down and get them down. If you mean the subjective portions of MS3 are throwing you for a loop, I would speak with an intern/resident that you trust (preferably those from the rotations you've completed) and ask for some honest feedback as to how you can improve.

For all applicants, I recommend applying broadly, interviewing broadly, and ranking as many programs as you can possibly see yourselves at regardless of location.

 

[player2hasenteredthegame]

You are doing all the right things. I would continue to work on the research.

Getting the clinical grades up can be tricky from school to school. If the objective tasks are knocking you down, I don't know what else to tell you other than to buckle down and get them down. If you mean the subjective portions of MS3 are throwing you for a loop, I would speak with an intern/resident that you trust (preferably those from the rotations you've completed) and ask for some honest feedback as to how you can improve.

For all applicants, I recommend applying broadly, interviewing broadly, and ranking as many programs as you can possibly see yourselves at regardless of location.

yes. I meant subjective, not objective. Sorry, it's been a long weekend ha

 

[addiepal5703]

I am looking for some advice. I have known I have wanted to pursue a career in dermatology since high school, but I'm worried about matching.

I am currently an MS3 with a step 1 of 238. Unfortunately I will probably not be AOA, but my grades put me in at least the top third of my class at a better than average US medical school. As for research, I have presented a derm related research project at a national conference but I have no journal publications. I have been involved in dermatology research since first year at my medical school which has not led to any publications so far, but I have made some important connections with dermatologists. I wrote a book chapter in a soon to be published dermatology textbook, and plan on submitting some derm case reports next semester. I have also been quite active in volunteer work with the most important being my position as manager for a free dermatology clinic for uninsured patients.

Right now I am thinking it would be best for me to take a year off for research since I do have an interest in academic medicine, and hopes of getting published before participating in the match. Does anyone have advice/thoughts on what my chances would be with or without the research year?

 

[asmallchild]

I am looking for some advice. I have known I have wanted to pursue a career in dermatology since high school, but I'm worried about matching.

I am currently an MS3 with a step 1 of 238. Unfortunately I will probably not be AOA, but my grades put me in at least the top third of my class at a better than average US medical school. As for research, I have presented a derm related research project at a national conference but I have no journal publications. I have been involved in dermatology research since first year at my medical school which has not led to any publications so far, but I have made some important connections with dermatologists. I wrote a book chapter in a soon to be published dermatology textbook, and plan on submitting some derm case reports next semester. I have also been quite active in volunteer work with the most important being my position as manager for a free dermatology clinic for uninsured patients.

Right now I am thinking it would be best for me to take a year off for research since I do have an interest in academic medicine, and hopes of getting published before participating in the match. Does anyone have advice/thoughts on what my chances would be with or without the research year?

I think you still have a shot of matching without the research year if your connections are strong. That being said, it would likely just be with the group you've made connections with. If you happen to be applying in a year where few others are applying and said department really likes you, you are golden.

If you are worried about matching and even slightly considering a research year, then obviously that is what I would recommend. My program used to use a Step 1 cutoff of 240 but it seems like the average for matched students has continued to climb upward. Not having AOA and not having publications are additional dings. If taking a year off for research is acceptable to you, it would make you more competitive.

 

[addiepal5703]

I think you still have a shot of matching without the research year if your connections are strong. That being said, it would likely just be with the group you've made connections with. If you happen to be applying in a year where few others are applying and said department really likes you, you are golden.

If you are worried about matching and even slightly considering a research year, then obviously that is what I would recommend. My program used to use a Step 1 cutoff of 240 but it seems like the average for matched students has continued to climb upward. Not having AOA and not having publications are additional dings. If taking a year off for research is acceptable to you, it would make you more competitive.

Thanks for your quick reply! I think it really does make sense to do a research year. Like you said, my best chance of matching is probably at my medical school but we only have 2-3 spots and one often goes to a clinical research fellow. Although there is a pretty good chance I could get the remaining spot, the risk doesn't seem worth it to me. I would rather have more solid options than one!

 

[NavyDoc23]

MS3 here
Years 1 & 2: In top 25%
Step 1: 252
Year 3 so far: H in Medicine and Radiology. Possible H in Surgery (grade not back yet). HP in OB/GYN and FM. AOA? Probably not.

Research-related: Nothing derm related so far. 1 patient information pub (in FM office). By the end of my 3rd year I will have done 5 case presentations in various specialties (FM, IM, Surgery, and OB).Will have an additional poster presentation based on a community health project. These projects are all part of a longitudinal program I am in, so I know I will have them done (they are required).

Extracurriculars: Student leader for a medical missions group at my school. Pre-Med student mentor for 3 students. Cancer conference participation (part of longitudinal experience).

My main concerns are that I won't have an official derm rotation until July of my 4th year and I won't have any derm related research until then. I also won't have much for connections until that time. I do have a little time during my longitudinal program to get some derm experience (a weeks worth). Did I hurt my chances by doing this longitudinal program?

 

[username456789]

MS3 here
Years 1 & 2: In top 25%
Step 1: 252
Year 3 so far: H in Medicine and Radiology. Possible H in Surgery (grade not back yet). HP in OB/GYN and FM. AOA? Probably not.

Research-related: Nothing derm related so far. 1 patient information pub (in FM office). By the end of my 3rd year I will have done 5 case presentations in various specialties (FM, IM, Surgery, and OB).Will have an additional poster presentation based on a community health project. These projects are all part of a longitudinal program I am in, so I know I will have them done (they are required).

Extracurriculars: Student leader for a medical missions group at my school. Pre-Med student mentor for 3 students. Cancer conference participation (part of longitudinal experience).

My main concerns are that I won't have an official derm rotation until July of my 4th year and I won't have any derm related research until then. I also won't have much for connections until that time. I do have a little time during my longitudinal program to get some derm experience (a weeks worth). Did I hurt my chances by doing this longitudinal program?

Without knowing too much about the longitudinal program, I wouldn't say you really hurt your chances at all (and it'd be too late to do anything about it if it had).

I had similar stats to you. I switched from a surgical subspecialty to Derm in March of my M3 year. As soon as I made the decision in my mind, I immediately set up an appointment with the Derm program chairman (who I had never met before) and discussed my interest in the field as well as the ins and outs of applying and how to get involved. Fortunately, the spring of my M3 year was spent on FM and neuro outpatient rotations, and there were a couple half days I was able to sneak out of clinic (we had weekly neuro subspecialty clinics but we were not really held very accountable so they were easy to skip out on) and spend those half days shadowing in the Derm clinic to get some exposure to the field and have the attendings/residents get exposure to me. I had done a little surgery-related research and had a pub, but had no Derm research. They immediately set me up with one of the attendings working on a project. It was a bit of a long, drawn out project so I didn't expect a pub in any sort of timely fashion, but one of the residents also allowed me to write up a case report. Mind you, this was all before I even started my M4 Derm rotation (which was also in July like yours will be).

I found that spending March/April meeting the Derm people and being very friendly and eager to learn (as well as eager to get involved with any kind of research, even a little case report) helped ingratiate me into the department. When I rotated a couple months later, I continued to make a good impression on people (mostly with my attitude/personality . . . there's only so much you can do to impress them with your Derm knowledge at that stage really) and by the time I was getting ready to apply through ERAS, I had already heard rumblings from the residents that our PD and Chairs really wanted me to match there. Ultimately I matched elsewhere at my dream program, but would've been thrilled to match at my home program as well.

Anyway, I digress. The point here is that while long term work with the Derm people is ideal, it's not necessary. I was able to make things happen quickly. Be a little creative with your time, be friendly and eager, and as with anything in this process, cross your fingers and hope cards fall your way. I do think it sounds like a little more research (Derm related is of course ideal) would greatly help your app. I was very much against the idea of doing a research year because I am impatient, but if that's what I thought was absolutely required at the time, I would've sought one out. I'm not sure you need one, but others may be more qualified to speak to that.

Good luck!

 

[Coldplayfan123]

Question: Does a single residency program only offer a certain # interviews to any given school during an application cycle? (e.g. say you have 5 equal applicants who apply to "MIT Derm." Would it benefit those applicants strategically to be from 5 different schools, as opposed to all being from 1 school, all else the same?)

Essentially I'm asking, does it harm one's application if there are many students applying dermatology your year from your class? Do residency programs have a "cap" # students interviewed per school?

 

[asmallchild]

Question: Does a single residency program only offer a certain # interviews to any given school during an application cycle? (e.g. say you have 5 equal applicants who apply to "MIT Derm." Would it benefit those applicants strategically to be from 5 different schools, as opposed to all being from 1 school, all else the same?)

Essentially I'm asking, does it harm one's application if there are many students applying dermatology your year from your class? Do residency programs have a "cap" # students interviewed per school?

It depends. It depends on the residency program. It depends on the school you are applying from.

Yes, in general, the more students applying for derm your year, the worse your chances.

That being said, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure all this out. I will admit it isn't advice that is easy to follow (and certainly much easier to dispense having matched already), but the best thing to do is put your best foot forward and let the cards fall where they may. Control what you can control and for most of us, it should work out.

 

[thatoneguysvt]

top half of class (did a little above average during first two years, didn't really try AT ALL - pretty much learned off youtube). Thought I wanted to do something less competitive and was confident I could ace step and match to whatever I wanted at the time.

currently performing at the top of the class during third year, acing shelf exams (99%ile) - curious if these scores show up on your transcript??

253 step 1

absolutely no research - I go to a public state school in south central USA that has a home derm program. I've met with the PD before and they were impressed with my step score which I thought was odd, as I don't consider it to be particularly high. I was basically told to do aways, get good LORs, and apply with confidence. Still very uncertain of my chances to match into derm. Will be doing my derm rotation in april and plan to get involved as much as possible writing case reports etc but I'm not sure where I stand.

 

[asmallchild]

top half of class (did a little above average during first two years, didn't really try AT ALL - pretty much learned off youtube). Thought I wanted to do something less competitive and was confident I could ace step and match to whatever I wanted at the time.

currently performing at the top of the class during third year, acing shelf exams (99%ile) - curious if these scores show up on your transcript??

253 step 1

absolutely no research - I go to a public state school in south central USA that has a home derm program. I've met with the PD before and they were impressed with my step score which I thought was odd, as I don't consider it to be particularly high. I was basically told to do aways, get good LORs, and apply with confidence. Still very uncertain of my chances to match into derm. Will be doing my derm rotation in april and plan to get involved as much as possible writing case reports etc but I'm not sure where I stand.

I think you are in good shape. A good step 1 score and good clinical grades will carry you pretty far. Sounds like your home department likes you too which is always good (many programs place a very heavy emphasis on Step 1)

If you don't have a lot of research, I agree I would recommend at least 1 - 2 aways. You want to get good letters (again, a bit of a disadvantage if you haven't done research). I would still be sure to apply broadly, agree to as many interviews as possible, and rank every program you can possibly see yourself at for 3 years.

If you are doing well in 3rd year, I would get to know your home department better. Try shadowing and getting involved in some research with them.

 

[Foot Fetish]

M1 here. Can I please get some advice on how to maximize my chances of matching into derm?

I attend a Top 40 school with a strong reputation. We're P/F the first 2 years, but I consistently score a standard deviation or more above the class average on our exams. Not sure if my school submits a preclinical rank list as they're very secretive about the logistics, but I think I will end up in the top quartile at this rate. I am currently talking to my home derm department to hopefully set up some derm research over the summer. Other than that, my only research involvement was in undergrad (clinical; in an unrelated specialty), and it did not result in any sort of publication / presentation. I have signed up for a couple clubs (including derm interest group), but essentially no med school EC's so far...I had tons of stellar EC's in undergrad (not sure if those count at all)...I also worked in a healthcare related field for a year before starting medical school for what it's worth...Obviously I haven't taken Step 1 yet, but I am a very strong test taker and have an excellent memory, so I am fairly confident I will be able to crack 250+ after rigorous preparation (which I plan to begin this summer to some extent; alongside my derm research (hopefully))...

I don't have any sort of geographic or "tier" preference in terms of derm programs. I would apply to every program in the nation and go wherever I was accepted if it came to that.

What should I be doing right now that I'm not already doing? Should I be doing more EC's / pursuing research more aggressively?

 

[asmallchild]

M1 here. Can I please get some advice on how to maximize my chances of matching into derm?

I attend a Top 40 school with a strong reputation. We're P/F the first 2 years, but I consistently score a standard deviation or more above the class average on our exams. Not sure if my school submits a preclinical rank list as they're very secretive about the logistics, but I think I will end up in the top quartile at this rate. I am currently talking to my home derm department to hopefully set up some derm research over the summer. Other than that, my only research involvement was in undergrad (clinical; in an unrelated specialty), and it did not result in any sort of publication / presentation. I have signed up for a couple clubs (including derm interest group), but essentially no med school EC's so far...I had tons of stellar EC's in undergrad (not sure if those count at all)...I also worked in a healthcare related field for a year before starting medical school for what it's worth...Obviously I haven't taken Step 1 yet, but I am a very strong test taker and have an excellent memory, so I am fairly confident I will be able to crack 250+ after rigorous preparation (which I plan to begin this summer to some extent; alongside my derm research (hopefully))...

I don't have any sort of geographic or "tier" preference in terms of derm programs. I would apply to every program in the nation and go wherever I was accepted if it came to that.

What should I be doing right now that I'm not already doing? Should I be doing more EC's / pursuing research more aggressively?

Not much more you can be doing as a M1. If you are confidently handling the coursework already, you can always start shadowing and/or start with research. The caveat I always bring up is to make sure you can excel at both. Being an ill-prepared shadower or a hindrance on a research project can irreversibly harm your chances for matching. Having a drop in grades is also a bad thing. If you aren't sure you can handle that workload, I would focus on acing the rest of MS1 so you can devote all your time in the summer for research.

ECs don't count for much in derm. That being said, if there's something you are passionate about, it wouldn't hurt to have that on your CV.

 

[deleted647155]

Hi there, med student from top 10 school interested in derm. Unfortunately, I did poorly on step 1 (198), but got my s**t together for step 2 (266). Did cancer immunology research between MS1 and MS2. Have lots of pubs and research from undergrad (not derm related). I guess the biggest red flag my step 1, but maybe programs will look at step 2? should i even apply?

 

[asmallchild]

Hi there, med student from top 10 school interested in derm. Unfortunately, I did poorly on step 1 (198), but got my s**t together for step 2 (266). Did cancer immunology research between MS1 and MS2. Have lots of pubs and research from undergrad (not derm related). I guess the biggest red flag my step 1, but maybe programs will look at step 2? should i even apply?

I think you would be facing a very steep uphill climb. Many programs have a Step 1 cutoff limit where they won't look at your application if your Step 1 falls below a certain limit (at my program, that was 240. It may have climbed since then as the average Step 1 score for a matched student per last year's AAD sessions was in the 250s)

Is it worth applying? That's up to you. But I would prepare very seriously for the possibility of going unmatched. You'll want to have a backup plan in place in the event you don't match into dermatology.

This may be the one instance where I don't recommend a research year. Research certainly helps but it still won't get you past many of the Step 1 cutoffs. I think you'll need to decide how badly you want to be a dermatologist and how long you are willing to try to get in.

 

[Abagnale]

Hi all!

Please share any wisdom you might have.

School: Mid-level private school on East coast.
Step 1: 264
Step 2: Not yet.
Class rank: No idea, top 10% probably? No jr AOA, sr AOA based on step 1 and 3rd year only.
Pre-clinical: All P at a true P/F school.
Clinic: 5 Honors (IM, Peds, ObGyn, Fam, Psych), hoping for Honors on Surg

Here's where it gets sort of dicey, but I'm working on it.
Research: 5 publications in basic science (1 as 1st author), a few small abstracts/posters/presentations. No research in derm. Taking a research year next year with a very well-known faculty member (not in my home department though) to fix that.
Extras: Two years at free student-run clinic, 1 of those years had a minor leadership role. Some tutoring. This part feels a bit weak.

Besides general advice about what I can do better, I do have a few specific questions that I'm hoping people may be able to answer:
1. Clinical grades: how big of a deal is it if I end up with HP in Surgery rather than H? Obviously working very hard right now but things feel like they're not yet clicking into place as they have before. Would it look really bad if I don't honor my last rotation?
2. Research: does it look bad if I have no derm research prior to my year off? I don't feel like I have free time to start anything right now, I'd rather wait until I finish 3rd year before jumping into research.
3. Extras: how big of a deal is my lack of strong ECs? I could maybe pick something up next year, but I feel like I would rather spend all my energy into publishing more.
4. Other applicants: there are at least 5-6 other people who are likely going to be applying derm during my cycle. Obviously that's something that I can't control. Is there anything that would be helpful in this situation other than doing the best that I personally can on my own application?

Thank you!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi all!

Please share any wisdom you might have.

School: Mid-level private school on East coast.
Step 1: 264
Step 2: Not yet.
Class rank: No idea, top 10% probably? No jr AOA, sr AOA based on step 1 and 3rd year only.
Pre-clinical: All P at a true P/F school.
Clinic: 5 Honors (IM, Peds, ObGyn, Fam, Psych), hoping for Honors on Surg

Here's where it gets sort of dicey, but I'm working on it.
Research: 5 publications in basic science (1 as 1st author), a few small abstracts/posters/presentations. No research in derm. Taking a research year next year with a very well-known faculty member (not in my home department though) to fix that.
Extras: Two years at free student-run clinic, 1 of those years had a minor leadership role. Some tutoring. This part feels a bit weak.

Besides general advice about what I can do better, I do have a few specific questions that I'm hoping people may be able to answer:
1. Clinical grades: how big of a deal is it if I end up with HP in Surgery rather than H? Obviously working very hard right now but things feel like they're not yet clicking into place as they have before. Would it look really bad if I don't honor my last rotation?
2. Research: does it look bad if I have no derm research prior to my year off? I don't feel like I have free time to start anything right now, I'd rather wait until I finish 3rd year before jumping into research.
3. Extras: how big of a deal is my lack of strong ECs? I could maybe pick something up next year, but I feel like I would rather spend all my energy into publishing more.
4. Other applicants: there are at least 5-6 other people who are likely going to be applying derm during my cycle. Obviously that's something that I can't control. Is there anything that would be helpful in this situation other than doing the best that I personally can on my own application?

Thank you!

You are doing great

1) Honors in everything is best, one HP won't kill you
2) It doesn't matter when the research is done. As long as you have derm research by the time of application, you should be fine
3) ECs don't count for much. Research / clinical performance / Step 1 scores / strong LORs all count for much more.
4) I always tell people to focus on themselves and not their competition. Like you said, there's nothing you can do about the fact that they're applying. Just focus on being the best possible applicant you can be and it'll work out. Besides, with everything you've posted thus far, I guarantee they're more worried about you then vice-versa. In my year, I was the worst of the 5-6 derm applicants from my school. They all had better Step scores, better clinical grades, AOA status, etc. Along the way, some dropped out and pursued another specialty. Many could not get along with the home faculty. I ended up being ranked to match higher than all the rest. Obviously it is easier to dispense this advice after having matched but I really do think the best way to approach the match process and to keep yourself sane is to only worry about the things you can control and work on putting your best foot forward.

 

[Abagnale]

You are doing great

1) Honors in everything is best, one HP won't kill you
2) It doesn't matter when the research is done. As long as you have derm research by the time of application, you should be fine
3) ECs don't count for much. Research / clinical performance / Step 1 scores / strong LORs all count for much more.
4) I always tell people to focus on themselves and not their competition. Like you said, there's nothing you can do about the fact that they're applying. Just focus on being the best possible applicant you can be and it'll work out. Besides, with everything you've posted thus far, I guarantee they're more worried about you then vice-versa. In my year, I was the worst of the 5-6 derm applicants from my school. They all had better Step scores, better clinical grades, AOA status, etc. Along the way, some dropped out and pursued another specialty. Many could not get along with the home faculty. I ended up being ranked to match higher than all the rest. Obviously it is easier to dispense this advice after having matched but I really do think the best way to approach the match process and to keep yourself sane is to only worry about the things you can control and work on putting your best foot forward.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, asmallchild. Will work hard to do well the remainder of this rotation, and during my research year. As hard as it is, just have to let go of worrying about anyone else but myself.

Your last point reminded me that I should start to get to know my home department as well. In a few long weeks I'll regain control of my schedule and will set up some meetings with the faculty.

 

[wjs010]

Addressed to DO's:

step 1: 240. comlex 1 589
clinicals: mixed...probably more HP than P or H
several case reports in derm, will be doing actual research next year ( keep in mind DO Derm don't apply until intern year)
3rd year LOR from Dermatologist with whom I rotated
some regular volunteering and school involvement, etc. will be starting DIG at school next year, as my school does not have one.

I don't really think I stand much of a chance, but I dont mind trying!

 

[TeamDerm95]

I'm gonna answer this like its a real question. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic in this post.

Chances: Probably ~5-10%. Unfortunately, a good step 1 score is not enough these days. Also, no honors in 3rd year and mediocre grades are a definite warning sign. See my post above and then work even harder. Research/great away rotation performance and LOR's are key.

An away rotation in internal medicine or dermatology?

 

[asmallchild]

An away rotation in internal medicine or dermatology?

Dermatology. Away rotations in IM won't help you for dermatology.

 

[Dermbattle2018]

Hi, I would appreciate your input on my application:

School: Mid-tier institution in the northeast. "Top 40"
Step 1: 260+
Step 2: 250+
Pre-clinical: Pass/Fail
Clinic: H/HP/P/F system.
Honored psych, family medicine, pediatrics, medicine, and neurology.
High-Pass on obgyn and surgery
AOA: Will probably have this, based on previous years.
Research: Will hope to have 5 publications at a minimum.
Two of these will be derm pubs (at least one first author from these).
Of the remaining 3 pubs, I have another first authorship (all of these are non-derm and clinical retrospective studies).

Planning on doing home and 3 aways
I have been in some contact with my home department, specifically with my PD and chair, and they are starting to know me better

I will apply broadly as suggested numerous times here. But what are my chances in the northeast? what are my chances, if any, at top institutions? Any other suggestions or shortcomings? I keep hearing about the rise in competition for derm, and it is unsettling to say the least.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, I would appreciate your input on my application:

School: Mid-tier institution in the northeast
Step 1: 262
Step 2: Planning on postponing
Pre-clinical: All honors
Clinic: H/P/F system.
Honored psych, family medicine, pediatrics, medicine, and neurology.
Pass on obgyn and surgery
AOA: Will probably have this, based on previous years.
Research: Will hope to have 5 publications at a minimum.
Two of these will be derm pubs (at least one first author from these).
Of the remaining 3 pubs, I have another first authorship (all of these are non-derm and clinical retrospective studies).

Planning on doing home and 3 aways
I have been in some contact with my home department, specifically with my PD and chair, and they are starting to know me better

I will apply broadly as suggested numerous times here. But what are my chances in the northeast? what are my chances, if any, at top institutions? Any other suggestions or shortcomings? I keep hearing about the rise in competition for derm, and it is unsettling to say the least.

Looks like you've done everything you could possibly do. If you want to increase your chances in the NE, I would do all 3 aways in that region (perhaps one in each big city in the NE)

I always tell people that matching is winning. If you happen to match at a top institution, even better. How and who the top institutions select is very hard to predict and unfortunately, can be subject to nepotism.

I don't see any weaknesses thus far. I would recommend just continuing with what you've been doing and excel during your derm rotations.

Derm is getting more competitive every year but I would guess that every competitive specialty suffers from the same "problem". I would focus on what you can control and let the chips fall where they may. Given what you already have (high Step 1 score, good clinical grades, likely AOA status, good research), you should be in excellent shape.

 

[Dermbattle2018]

Looks like you've done everything you could possibly do. If you want to increase your chances in the NE, I would do all 3 aways in that region (perhaps one in each big city in the NE)

I always tell people that matching is winning. If you happen to match at a top institution, even better. How and who the top institutions select is very hard to predict and unfortunately, can be subject to nepotism.

I don't see any weaknesses thus far. I would recommend just continuing with what you've been doing and excel during your derm rotations.

Derm is getting more competitive every year but I would guess that every competitive specialty suffers from the same "problem". I would focus on what you can control and let the chips fall where they may. Given what you already have (high Step 1 score, good clinical grades, likely AOA status, good research), you should be in excellent shape.

Your input is appreciated a lot. Thank you.

 

[Dermcrazy]

The NRPM match shows that 8/22 IMG's somehow matched into dermatology in 2016.
I am a dermatology aspirant but all current posts say that it is extremely hard to match into dermatology and quite impossible. I would like to know with the following if it could be a possibility.
Undergrad: India
Step1&2: 240/240
20 publications in dermatology
Volunteer work
Started my own NGO to battle anemia in the Indian population.
Started an NGO to help increase the aspirants for medical school and counselling opportunities for them.
WHO communication intern for a month and half.
Time since graduation: 1 year
Planning on doing a research fellowship in dermatology in an educational institution in America.
Also 4 months of clinical experience(clerkships)
4 LORS received from clerkships.

All of this included, what could be my chances?

 

[asmallchild]

The NRPM match shows that 8/22 IMG's somehow matched into dermatology in 2016.
I am a dermatology aspirant but all current posts say that it is extremely hard to match into dermatology and quite impossible. I would like to know with the following if it could be a possibility.
Undergrad: India
Step1&2: 240/240
20 publications in dermatology
Volunteer work
Started my own NGO to battle anemia in the Indian population.
Started an NGO to help increase the aspirants for medical school and counselling opportunities for them.
WHO communication intern for a month and half.
Time since graduation: 1 year
Planning on doing a research fellowship in dermatology in an educational institution in America.
Also 4 months of clinical experience(clerkships)
4 LORS received from clerkships.

All of this included, what could be my chances?

You certainly have a chance but as you are already aware, you are facing an uphill climb

Your best bet would be to do a research fellowship with a history of taking its research fellows into a linked residency program AND a history of taking IMGs

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your input! I'm currently finishing up my third year at a top 3 school interested in derm. Third year started out rough (2 passes, 4 HPs in a F/ P / HP/ H system; waiting on 2 grades. Medicine was an HP). My parents thankfully chose the third year of medical school to divorce and I was essentially the messenger during the messy fallout, which put a strain on my ability to concentrate. The thing is, I want to (briefly) mention this in my personal statement to explain the grades and demonstrate that it wasn't due to a lack of effort/ professionalism.

1) Given that grades are frequently cited as the most important factor, how can I compensate for this? (and CAN I actually compensate for this?)
2) Should I include the family issue in the essay?

Stats:
3rd year grades: 2 Ps, 4 HPs, waiting on 2 grades
AOA: not done at my school
Research: significant (publication in tier-one journal, other pubs, several presentations, most not in derm)
Awards: Lots from undergrad, nothing really from med school
USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Thank you!

 

[Dermcrazy]

You certainly have a chance but as you are already aware, you are facing an uphill climb

Your best bet would be to do a research fellowship with a history of taking its research fellows into a linked residency program AND a history of taking IMGs

so if I have all of this and do my research fellowship in an institution that has that history what odds am I looking at? Or should I stick to another field that I can match in?

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your input! I'm currently finishing up my third year at a top 3 school interested in derm. Third year started out rough (2 passes, 4 HPs in a F/ P / HP/ H system; waiting on 2 grades. Medicine was an HP). My parents thankfully chose the third year of medical school to divorce and I was essentially the messenger during the messy fallout, which put a strain on my ability to concentrate. The thing is, I want to (briefly) mention this in my personal statement to explain the grades and demonstrate that it wasn't due to a lack of effort/ professionalism.

1) Given that grades are frequently cited as the most important factor, how can I compensate for this? (and CAN I actually compensate for this?)
2) Should I include the family issue in the essay?

Stats:
3rd year grades: 2 Ps, 4 HPs, waiting on 2 grades
AOA: not done at my school
Research: significant (publication in tier-one journal, other pubs, several presentations, most not in derm)
Awards: Lots from undergrad, nothing really from med school
USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Thank you!

1) Nothing you can do at this point, just try to honor everything from here on out and learn from your earlier rotations (why did you just pass or HP it instead of honoring the rotation?)
2) I wouldn't. It is obviously a very significant event in your life and would understandably affect your performance. But I'm of the belief that interviews are a place to highlight your strengths and not bring attention to your weaknesses. I would work on honoring the rest of your rotations, putting in fantastic performances on your derm rotations, getting outstanding LORs, rocking Step 1, doing lots more derm-specific research and choose to highlight those accomplishments in your interviews / personal statement

 

[asmallchild]

so if I have all of this and do my research fellowship in an institution that has that history what odds am I looking at? Or should I stick to another field that I can match in?

It varies. I don't think anyone other than the research director and the residency PD can give you an absolute number. It is a risk trying to match into derm as an IMG. If you feel really feel derm is your calling, you will need to take a leap of faith. If it isn't, then absolutely, there are much easier fields to match into.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

1) Nothing you can do at this point, just try to honor everything from here on out and learn from your earlier rotations (why did you just pass or HP it instead of honoring the rotation?)
2) I wouldn't. It is obviously a very significant event in your life and would understandably affect your performance. But I'm of the belief that interviews are a place to highlight your strengths and not bring attention to your weaknesses. I would work on honoring the rest of your rotations, putting in fantastic performances on your derm rotations, getting outstanding LORs, rocking Step 1, doing lots more derm-specific research and choose to highlight those accomplishments in your interviews / personal statement

Thanks so much for your input! Much appreciated!

1) so not mentioning it in the interview, but is it worth mentioning in the personal statement?
2) Assuming I can honor the subi and electives, get great LORs, rock step and do more derm-specific research (will definitely try!) would I have a shot at a top 10 program? Or is it too late already? At a top 3, currently.

 

[username456789]

Thanks so much for your input! Much appreciated!

1) so not mentioning it in the interview, but is it worth mentioning in the personal statement?
2) Assuming I can honor the subi and electives, get great LORs, rock step and do more derm-specific research (will definitely try!) would I have a shot at a top 10 program? Or is it too late already? At a top 3, currently.

You should disavow yourself from this notion of getting into a "top 10 program." Just because you're at Penn or whatever doesn't mean you have to continue focusing on name brand per se. Especially in a field like Derm, in which many applicants go unmatched. Now, matching at your home program may be your best chance at a "top 10 program", but most of the time people matching at these places have all around stellar apps from the top down.....and even then there is tons of chance/variability.

 

[Dermcrazy]

How is surgery for IMG's as compared to dermatology?

 

[Magneto1]

I'd also appreciate a second opinion on my derm match chances if possible and what other things I can be doing. Im in the end of third year with just IM to go and already scheduling away rotations. I go to a relatively no name Med school.

Step 1: 248
Possible Black Dot on app: attended MS1 for couple weeks then had family emergency, deferred the year as result and returned next school year.
Research: two derm case reports currently submitted for pub to JAAD and DOJ. A derm/obgyn chart review under IRB approval currently. A non published observational study of a South American health service org.
Grades: school doesn't have honors but my clerkship percentages are all above 85% and all positive evals.
AOA: uncertain if I'll make it but have a decent shot.
Scholarly projects: wrote a graphic novel and screenplay during medical school and in talks with Hollywood talent agencies about future adaptations.

 

[asmallchild]

How is surgery for IMG's as compared to dermatology?

You would probably get better answers on the surgery forum. Still, I'm sure in general, it would be much easier to match into surgery as compared to dermatology for an IMG.

 

[asmallchild]

I'd also appreciate a second opinion on my derm match chances if possible and what other things I can be doing. Im in the end of third year with just IM to go and already scheduling away rotations. I go to a relatively no name Med school.

Step 1: 248
Possible Black Dot on app: attended MS1 for couple weeks then had family emergency, deferred the year as result and returned next school year.
Research: two derm case reports currently submitted for pub to JAAD and DOJ. A derm/obgyn chart review under IRB approval currently. A non published observational study of a South American health service org.
Grades: school doesn't have honors but my clerkship percentages are all above 85% and all positive evals.
AOA: uncertain if I'll make it but have a decent shot.
Scholarly projects: wrote a graphic novel and screenplay during medical school and in talks with Hollywood talent agencies about future adaptations.

You should be in good shape. Your Step 1 should get you past most filters but is actually (unbelievable still in my mind) below the national average for matched applicants.

The black dot won't be an issue so long as you can explain what happened. Hopefully if it is a one-time family emergency, that can help allay fears that something similar might happen to you in residency. Assuming everything else has gone smoothly since then, I don't think it will hold you back at all.

Looks like you are off to a good start with research, I would keep going

Grades / AOA = doing about as much as you can do

Scholarly projects = that would be something interesting to mention during your interviews.

I would make sure you ace your derm rotations, get great LORs, apply broadly, and I think you'll do just fine. Good luck!

 

[Magneto1]

You should be in good shape. Your Step 1 should get you past most filters but is actually (unbelievable still in my mind) below the national average for matched applicants.

The black dot won't be an issue so long as you can explain what happened. Hopefully if it is a one-time family emergency, that can help allay fears that something similar might happen to you in residency. Assuming everything else has gone smoothly since then, I don't think it will hold you back at all.

Looks like you are off to a good start with research, I would keep going

Grades / AOA = doing about as much as you can do

Scholarly projects = that would be something interesting to mention during your interviews.

I would make sure you ace your derm rotations, get great LORs, apply broadly, and I think you'll do just fine. Good luck!

Would you recommend applying to IM as well since the stats aren't all well above the standards?

 

[asmallchild]

Would you recommend applying to IM as well since the stats aren't all well above the standards?

I would give you the same answer that I gave you in the thread you started about a backup specialty

I can't answer that for you. Do you really love derm? Are you willing to go unmatched and then try to re-enter the match?

Do you like IM enough? If you match into a categorical IM position, it would be difficult to switch back into applying for derm if you changed your mind again.

I can't answer those questions for you. My advice would be to make a decision and then follow it through to completion. I think that method allows you to attack the whole nervewracking application / interviewing / matching process with some conviction.

 

[GoPelicans]

I came into school thinking I wanted be an anesthesiologist. I did an anesthesia rotation and realized the 98% boredom to 2% panic ratio of anesthesia was not something I enjoyed. I like the fast pace of clinic much more than inpatient medicine, so I considered specialties which were clinic-heavy mixed with occasional procedures. I also want to be a specialist in something. I gave serious thought to urology/opthalmology, but do not have a strong passion for the OR or those organ systems. I also tried an EM rotation, but did not like the lack of patient continuity. Derm seems like it would be a cool fit but it's so damn competitive. Geography doesn't matter too much to me.

 

[Mohsaic]

Wondering if I should shoot for the moon and take a research year for derm.

USNews 20-30 school. Step 1 248. M3 will probably end with Honors in Rads and Psych, HP in med, surg, neuro, obgyn, peds, family. Prob won't be AOA.

1 mid-author pub in a high impact factor journal from 2013. 9 abstracts in which I am not a first author. These are all in pulmonology research from my gap year before med school. Some random EC's, chair of 1 interest group but that's really it.

I came into school thinking I wanted be an anesthesiologist. I did an anesthesia rotation and realized the 98% boredom to 2% panic ratio of anesthesia was not something I enjoyed. I like the fast pace of clinic much more than inpatient medicine, so I considered specialties which were clinic-heavy mixed with occasional procedures. I also want to be a specialist in something. I gave serious thought to urology/opthalmology, but do not have a strong passion for the OR or those organ systems. I also tried an EM rotation, but did not like the lack of patient continuity. Derm seems like it would be a cool fit but it's so damn competitive. Geography doesn't matter too much to me.

I think taking a research year would benefit you significantly. It seems like you have good research experience and could be pretty productive getting publications. Do you know your home dermatology department well already? If not, taking this year off from school could help make valuable connections, which go far during the application process.

You did well on step 1 but I think 248 is just under the average for matched applicants. Taking the research year would give you a lot of time to study for Step 2CK and hopefully get a great score which you could submit with your initial application.

That being said, you may still get some interviews and be able to match in the upcoming cycle.

 

[Dermbattle2018]

School: Mid-tier institution in the northeast
Step 1: 262
Step 2: Planning on postponing
Pre-clinical: All honors
Clinic: H/P/F system.
Honored psych, family medicine, pediatrics, medicine, and neurology.
Pass on obgyn and surgery
AOA: Will probably have this, based on previous years.
Research: Will hope to have 5 publications at a minimum.
Two of these will be derm pubs (at least one first author from these).
Of the remaining 3 pubs, I have another first authorship (all of these are non-derm and clinical retrospective studies).

Planning on doing home and 3 aways
I have been in some contact with my home department, specifically with my PD and chair, and they are starting to know me better.

Thanks for input thus far -- stats quoted above.
I was wondering if I could get a few opinions on how many aways to do (apart from home rotation)?
I originally wanted to do 3, but an afraid I will burn out and not be able to put out a great effort for the last?