On my way to becoming a non-traditional. Whats next move?

[ladysmanfelpz]

So I've applied to to D.O. programs the last 3 years with no luck. Currently on a few waitlists. Already knew and told again that there was nothing that stood out for me. Avg. cGPA of 3.5, sGPA 3.29, MCAT 503. Shadowed a D.O., volunteered at Shriners, other sporadic volunteer, great letters and work experience. Regardless I'm avg white male with avg stats and slightly below avg sGPA. I've been told over the last 3 years its been multiple things, but I know a big reason I am being overlooked is less than stellar sGPA. I never even knew that the PMSB courses were weighed heavily for med school apps, so focused on just better grades than doing well in the courses I should have. Tried to remediate through a stellar MCAT score and again couldn't breakthrough. 25, 26, 503, but all with low Verbal scores (7,7,123) which some D.O. schools can overlook. So I'm still praying I will get snatched up this year by my waitlist schools, but what do I do if I don't?

Currently have an okay living and job situation in Phoenix, AZ working at Mayo clinic. My plan was if it ever came to this was to retake some of those C's in pre-req's, Ochem II, Gen chem II and one upper bio, to up sGPA and reapply since DO would factor in retakes. But they dropped the bombshell this year that that is no longer the case! So I am fully decided I want DO now, over PA and other professions, so what is my next move? Post-bacc wouldn't do much for me, correct? What masters programs should I look at and am still able to apply? I also want to get in quick (meaning don't want 2 year Masters program) and some pre-req help for Med school wouldn't hurt? What do you all suggest.

Thanks everybody!

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[aformerstudent]

Do a one-year SMP with upper-level coursework. I think you're GPA and MCAT should get you into some program.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I would say you're already non-traditional. Anyway, I don't think that sGPA is bad for many DO schools, please correct me if I'm wrong. I think 3 MCATs may be an issue as well as your school list. Also, people on this forum say don't retake a C or better so I'm glad you didn't do that. A regular masters will do nothing for you. Maybe an SMP if you can keep your GPA up. Maybe a post-bac. . . lets see what others have to say.

 

[Goro]

Did you get IIs? My school would have interviewed you, based upon your stats.

If so, your interviewing skills may be at issue.

Any IAs?
You may also have a red flag of a bad LOR.

I wouldn't recommend retaking any C grade coursework unless you wished to retake the MCAT (which I do NOT recommend...you've hit your plateau).

An SMP might be your backdoor into a DO school, but you'll need to get at least a 3.5 GPA in it. Either this or a DIY postbac.

So I've applied to to D.O. programs the last 3 years with no luck. Currently on a few waitlists. Already knew and told again that there was nothing that stood out for me. Avg. cGPA of 3.5, sGPA 3.29, MCAT 503. Shadowed a D.O., volunteered at Shriners, other sporadic volunteer, great letters and work experience. Regardless I'm avg white male with avg stats and slightly below avg sGPA. I've been told over the last 3 years its been multiple things, but I know a big reason I am being overlooked is less than stellar sGPA. I never even knew that the PMSB courses were weighed heavily for med school apps, so focused on just better grades than doing well in the courses I should have. Tried to remediate through a stellar MCAT score and again couldn't breakthrough. 25, 26, 503, but all with low Verbal scores (7,7,123) which some D.O. schools can overlook. So I'm still praying I will get snatched up this year by my waitlist schools, but what do I do if I don't?

Currently have an okay living and job situation in Phoenix, AZ working at Mayo clinic. My plan was if it ever came to this was to retake some of those C's in pre-req's, Ochem II, Gen chem II and one upper bio, to up sGPA and reapply since DO would factor in retakes. But they dropped the bombshell this year that that is no longer the case! So I am fully decided I want DO now, over PA and other professions, so what is my next move? Post-bacc wouldn't do much for me, correct? What masters programs should I look at and am still able to apply? I also want to get in quick (meaning don't want 2 year Masters program) and some pre-req help for Med school wouldn't hurt? What do you all suggest.

Thanks everybody!

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

I get the advice about the MCAT, but it was a low verbal 3 times. Sciences were up there at or above average. A low verbal and I would have a strong DO and low MD score. And I improved each time in the sciences. I wouldn't really call that a plateau.

Yes the interview was brought up before. I practiced on it and read books. Most likely didn't knock it out of the park, but I didn't hear any negatives either. I mainly felt like I had less to offer (talk about) compared to other students who were doing masters or research.

And IA's? What are those?

And so with an SMP my main focus would be GPA. I wouldn't retake MCAT (503 should suffice, right?), but just focus on coursework and getting solid GPA to reapply with more recent coursework.

And so what SMP's do I apply to and how do I go about doing so? I'm in AZ and would like to stay in the area, or go to one associated with a school I plan on attending. I wouldn't mind going to one associated with an MD as well to have a chance at that school. So really how do I apply? I'm kind of lost without AACOMAS

 

[Naruhodo]

IA = institutional action
Basically, did you ever get in trouble for something in college that would have wound up in your academic record.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

No nothing. In fact I was told by my pre-med advisor I had great letters.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

So where can I find a list of SMP's linked to DO and MD programs? I'm really having a hard time finding them and a side by side comparison would make it easy on which to apply.

 

[OchemOficionado]

So where can I find a list of SMP's linked to DO and MD programs? I'm really having a hard time finding them and a side by side comparison would make it easy on which to apply.

You may just have to google, look at each school's website and determine for yourself.

Why is an SMP your first choice? You're going to earn a higher GPA than you currently have and it's way more expensive than a DIY

 

[star.buck]

Yes the interview was brought up before. I practiced on it and read books. Most likely didn't knock it out of the park, but I didn't hear any negatives either. I mainly felt like I had less to offer (talk about) compared to other students who were doing masters or research.

This might be your problem. You need the confidence to nail your interviews, and for that confidence you need to know that you have MORE to offer than those people with masters and research. If you have lack of this confidence and show intimidation of the other applicants, you may ruin your chances of an acceptance.

I was was accepted with community college science classes, no graduate degree, no research. I knew my story, knew my purpose, knew when I'm a physician I can stand toe to toe with any other applicant, if not having greater compassion and tenacity for my patients. My school saw this, and accepted me a week after my interview ( no waitlist). I had patient experiences to talk about, I spoke of how inspired I was by two different doctors I shadowed, of the great need for rural physicians... I didn't have research or a grad degree to talk about... but don't forget what we are here for, the patients.

Practice some interviews with people who make you nervous, work on your body language and phrasing. Perfect your purpose, and build your confidence.

That's my two cents, best of luck to you!!

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

You may just have to google, look at each school's website and determine for yourself.

Why is an SMP your first choice? You're going to earn a higher GPA than you currently have and it's way more expensive than a DIY

What do you mean? You make it sound like a higher GPA is a bad thing.

And SMP isn't my first choice. DO school is obviously ha. But for real I made another thread called non-special masters, but it seems like its too late to get into a lot of those programs. Plus I don't know which programs would help my application, help me in school, and that I am an eligible candidate for. At least with a SMP I know it will help with the course work in Med school and up my sGPA.

 

[OchemOficionado]

What do you mean? You make it sound like a higher GPA is a bad thing.

And SMP isn't my first choice. DO school is obviously ha. But for real I made another thread called non-special masters, but it seems like its too late to get into a lot of those programs. Plus I don't know which programs would help my application, help me in school, and that I am an eligible candidate for. At least with a SMP I know it will help with the course work in Med school and up my sGPA.

Obviously med school is your first choice. There was no confusion about that. We are discussing your path to get there.

And I'm sorry, that was a typo. I meant you're going to have to earn a higher GPA than you ever have. That MAY be impossible and there's likely no coming back from a poor SMP performance. So why take the risk if you have other options? (Especially when they are cheaper.) As long as you know the GPA requirement and are confident going in than cool.

Also, a regular masters isn't going to help with the med school process. But I think you're asking about that in regard to other careers.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Obviously med school is your first choice. There was no confusion about that. We are discussing your path to get there.

And I'm sorry, that was a typo. I meant you're going to have to earn a higher GPA than you ever have. That MAY be impossible and there's likely no coming back from a poor SMP performance. So why take the risk if you have other options? (Especially when they are cheaper.) As long as you know the GPA requirement and are confident going in than cool.

Also, a regular masters isn't going to help with the med school process. But I think you're asking about that in regard to other careers.

Yeah I've heard a poor SMP performance can be a killer. Why the risk? Cuz I'm on my third year applying. What do you suggest then?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Yeah I've heard a poor SMP performance can be a killer. Why the risk? Cuz I'm on my third year applying. What do you suggest then?

You can go with any suggestion on this thread. (DIY postbac or going into SMP with your eyes wide open)

I was just curious why you are more interested in the riskier route, but it makes sense now.

 

[Neurodoct]

There are M.S. programs provided by osteopathic medical schools which granted if you do well, will get you into their school look into some of the programs provided by Touro-NY, LECOM, LMU, PCOM for example.

 

[pupsnacks]

.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

It seems like everyone here is leaning towards a DIY post-bacc? How is this any less risky than an SMP? This was my original plan, but now DO does not accept retakes anymore. I'm just afraid it will not make much of a difference for my app and I may be stuck another year reapplying.

If I went that route I would have to work full time, take 2 or 3 classes, maybe Gen chem 2 and O chem 2 in the fall and one other course in the spring, and probably have to retake the MCAT which I really don't want to do. If I did SMP I believe I could focus on classes more and possible work and volunteer on weekends. Plus SMP would show I could handle more a full load and medical like classes. I don't believe I would need a MCAT retake with SMP either, but a strong performance and early app should raise chances of acceptance.

Thoughts?

 

[pupsnacks]

.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

But I'm already at a 3.3 sGPA with grade replacement. Failed Ochem 2 and retook to only get a C (although I was taking a 19 credit semester including Biochem). Don't know what my sGPA without grade replacement will be. Can any adcom members give me some advice here like @Goro . I really just want to know the best plan of attack from here.

 

[Mitochondrion21]

Just MO:

First, don't apply again this summer for 2018. You need to show significant improvement - let's figure out how to do that in the coming year.

- Retake prereqs at your discretion (redeem those first-time C's) but much more importantly;
- Have you maxxed out all opportunities to take upper-level med school related science classes? If not, take as many of them as you can this coming year so you can boost your GPA one last time. And do well.
- Bolster your ECs as much as you can; see if you can do more stuff on the side at Mayo.
- I wouldn't retake the MCAT b/c I doubt it would help, but I'll defer to the experts on that one.
- When applying next year, apply early. You may need new LoRs if possible. Get competent people to read your essays and help with interview practice.
- If you still don't get in, then it's time to play the final card and go for an SMP. Research the heck out of every program and pick carefully. Work like all your med school dreams depend on it, because they will.
- Finally, if SMP fails, I suppose there's always the Carribbean route. It will be long odds, but it will be more than zero.

I know you want to start ASAP, but you can't afford any more missteps. Take it one step at a time. Good luck!

EDIT: I forgot to add the option of doing an M.S. (not a SMP), that might be something to do in addition or in place of the above, but I don't know much about them, so ask for more advice on that.

EDIT #2: You're a reapplicant, so go to the best source about reapplicant advice there is on SDN: Dr. Midlife's reapplication dissertation

 

[edgerock24]

How many and which DO schools did you apply to?

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[njtrimed]

Given that you've applied three times and had no acceptances, but are on some wait lists, I'm guessing interviewing is probably your issue. I also agree with the previous poster who recommended against applying this cycle. If you continue reapplying without making any substantial improvements to your application, it'll work against you more and more each cycle. As Goro pointed out, there's probably no point in retaking courses or the MCAT- unless you think based on consistently high practice scores that you can really kill the MCAT this time around, which isn't likely if you've had three scores in the same range. Taking the MCAT without improving can be viewed as worse than one bad score. Applying unsuccessfully several times without improvement is similarly not regarded very well; it makes it look like you're lacking introspection or unwilling to fix whatever isn't working.

I would strongly recommend either an SMP or a back-door program. If you do an SMP, a 3.5 is a bare minimum, and I'd say you really want to be at a 3.7+ since your uGPA is close to a 3.5. I know LECOM has a post-bacc program that guarantees acceptance if you maintain over a 3.0. Look into options like that as well. And in the meantime, call every school that has interviewed you and see if you can find out why you're on the wait list, so you can improve your chances for next time. Even if you think you're good at interviewing, there might be something you're saying or doing that is a turnoff.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

My thoughts are apply to an SMP. I really don't want to wait another year tho to reapply. And regarding a backdoor entrance, you still need to apply, right? So I may as well apply to all of them.

My thoughts are to apply to MWU's MA in biochem 1 year program. If I do well in this this should give me a good shot at MWU, correct? Albeit a lower MCAT than they like, wouldn't competency in their coursework be enough to attain an admission? Also this grad level coursework would look good for any DO school that I apply, correct?

I just don't see the purpose of waiting another year. Plenty of the kids I interviewed with were currently in their masters program. I'm right there, but been told by PNWU its been poor interview, others low science. I know it may be stressful having to wait a semester for grades to come out, but at least I would garner winter/spring interviews, correct?

 

[edgerock24]

My thoughts are apply to an SMP. I really don't want to wait another year tho to reapply. And regarding a backdoor entrance, you still need to apply, right? So I may as well apply to all of them.

My thoughts are to apply to MWU's MA in biochem 1 year program. If I do well in this this should give me a good shot at MWU, correct? Albeit a lower MCAT than they like, wouldn't competency in their coursework be enough to attain an admission? Also this grad level coursework would look good for any DO school that I apply, correct?

I just don't see the purpose of waiting another year. Plenty of the kids I interviewed with were currently in their masters program. I'm right there, but been told by PNWU its been poor interview, others low science. I know it may be stressful having to wait a semester for grades to come out, but at least I would garner winter/spring interviews, correct?

Still curious as to how many schools you applied to, which ones, and when in the cycle you applied to them.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Still curious as to how many schools you applied to, which ones, and when in the cycle you applied to them.

Oh sorry. I know over 15. Can't remember exact number. Got secondaries from I believe every one of them. 4 interviews. Waitlist at PNWU, ACOM, and MWU and denial at Lecom after my 2nd time interviewing there. Applied very early as well. Primaries in July sometime and secondaries all done by August. I interviewed at LECOM in September. The rest were in January and February. It was very odd with LECOM as they didn't put me on a waitlist, but just kept my file under review til like March. I didn't get the denial letter til march or April with a September interview .

 

[zukunft195]

Have you gotten in touch with the programs that waitlisted/rejected you post-II? Some admissions officers would be willing to offer you some feedback about why you weren't accepted.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Only the ones I interviewed at. Like I said PNWU said interview, "I didn't stand out." No red flags or strikes against, just didn't stand out, but kind of sucks since I'm a WA resident (originally from there). ACOM said low science GPA but since I was waitlisted after interview, it could have been part interview. I'm not a bad interviewer guys, its just I don't think I have anything to offer. Average white homeboy with avg. grades mcat and EC's. No real life changing experience. Great letters and great PS, but I just don't think they see a tremendous drive or that 'it' factor, whatever it is. Haven't reached out to LECOM but guess I will.

So for my move, how do you all feel about the MA of biomed sciences at MWU? MCAT or no MCAT? What else would I need to do? Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[gallons]

how do people know they got "great letters". They are supposed to confidential and students should not see them.

 

[njtrimed]

Only the ones I interviewed at. Like I said PNWU said interview, "I didn't stand out." No red flags or strikes against, just didn't stand out, but kind of sucks since I'm a WA resident (originally from there). ACOM said low science GPA but since I was waitlisted after interview, it could have been part interview. I'm not a bad interviewer guys, its just I don't think I have anything to offer. Average white homeboy with avg. grades mcat and EC's. No real life changing experience. Great letters and great PS, but I just don't think they see a tremendous drive or that 'it' factor, whatever it is. Haven't reached out to LECOM but guess I will.

So for my move, how do you all feel about the MA of biomed sciences at MWU? MCAT or no MCAT? What else would I need to do? Thanks for the thoughts.

Four interviews with not one acceptance suggests you need to change something, big time. I wouldn't apply again until you do, because each failed cycle makes the next one harder. But it's up to you.

 

[njtrimed]

My thoughts are apply to an SMP. I really don't want to wait another year tho to reapply. And regarding a backdoor entrance, you still need to apply, right? So I may as well apply to all of them.

My thoughts are to apply to MWU's MA in biochem 1 year program. If I do well in this this should give me a good shot at MWU, correct? Albeit a lower MCAT than they like, wouldn't competency in their coursework be enough to attain an admission? Also this grad level coursework would look good for any DO school that I apply, correct?

I just don't see the purpose of waiting another year. Plenty of the kids I interviewed with were currently in their masters program. I'm right there, but been told by PNWU its been poor interview, others low science. I know it may be stressful having to wait a semester for grades to come out, but at least I would garner winter/spring interviews, correct?

The fact that other people interviewing were currently in SMPs doesn't mean anything. I applied to med school and then started an SMP during the cycle because my #1 choice wanted to see recent coursework; it had been many years since I graduated. I got acceptances from other schools that didn't even know I was in the SMP before interviewing at my top choice, and got into my top choice after I finished the first semester with a 4.0. I've known plenty of other people at SMPs in similar situations, where they weren't there for "grade repair," but to show recent coursework and/or improve their chances at that particular school. There's no point in comparing yourself to people you don't know-you have no idea what their applications look like.

Since you may need high grades in the SMP to get interviews in a new application cycle, you should wait until you've had at least one stellar semester to apply. You're much better off applying June 1 of next year with a full year of As on your record; if interviewing isn't your issue, this might be what you need to stand out.

 

[edgerock24]

how do people know they got "great letters". They are supposed to confidential and students should not see them.

Sometimes letter writers will show students their letter before submitting. Other times, students have such good relationship with their letter writers that they are pretty confident they're getting a solid letter.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

how do people know they got "great letters". They are supposed to confidential and students should not see them.

Sometimes letter writers will show students their letter before submitting. Other times, students have such good relationship with their letter writers that they are pretty confident they're getting a solid letter.

This and my pre-med advisor told me. I was close to the professors who wrote letters for me, and my pre-med advisor put together the composite and said my letters were "very good".

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

The fact that other people interviewing were currently in SMPs doesn't mean anything. I applied to med school and then started an SMP during the cycle because my #1 choice wanted to see recent coursework; it had been many years since I graduated. I got acceptances from other schools that didn't even know I was in the SMP before interviewing at my top choice, and got into my top choice after I finished the first semester with a 4.0. I've known plenty of other people at SMPs in similar situations, where they weren't there for "grade repair," but to show recent coursework and/or improve their chances at that particular school. There's no point in comparing yourself to people you don't know-you have no idea what their applications look like.

Since you may need high grades in the SMP to get interviews in a new application cycle, you should wait until you've had at least one stellar semester to apply. You're much better off applying June 1 of next year with a full year of As on your record; if interviewing isn't your issue, this might be what you need to stand out.

I'm more in it for recent coursework as well. Everyone on here is saying my stats should get DO, but now my last class was in 2014. Its not like I can jump into med school without having an academic challenge in 3+ years.

But again I really don't get why the suggestions to wait another year. That just seems like another year wasted to me. I'm hoping I will hear from the MWU or RVU SMP (the two I have applied to so far) and if I'm in I'm gonna complete my aacomas for the coming cycle before I start. A slight revision to my PS and I'm good, and believe me I have plenty of pre-written secondaries to choose from ha. DO's accept apps much later than MD's, and even with my early app last cycle I didn't interview until the winter/spring. That would give me at least a quarter under my belt for an early interview and a full semester for winter interviews. Good grades should help my chances.

The only thing I can see hurting me is one, grades will be lower due to no grade replacement, and two, most recent coursework will be even later. This may prevent me from getting secondaries to some programs. But I should get some and matched with good grades in an SMP should get interviews and hopefully have what I was lacking to get an acceptance.

Thoughts?

 

[njtrimed]

I'm more in it for recent coursework as well. Everyone on here is saying my stats should get DO, but now my last class was in 2014. Its not like I can jump into med school without having an academic challenge in 3+ years.

But again I really don't get why the suggestions to wait another year. That just seems like another year wasted to me. I'm hoping I will hear from the MWU or RVU SMP (the two I have applied to so far) and if I'm in I'm gonna complete my aacomas for the coming cycle before I start. A slight revision to my PS and I'm good, and believe me I have plenty of pre-written secondaries to choose from ha. DO's accept apps much later than MD's, and even with my early app last cycle I didn't interview until the winter/spring. That would give me at least a quarter under my belt for an early interview and a full semester for winter interviews. Good grades should help my chances.

The only thing I can see hurting me is one, grades will be lower due to no grade replacement, and two, most recent coursework will be even later. This may prevent me from getting secondaries to some programs. But I should get some and matched with good grades in an SMP should get interviews and hopefully have what I was lacking to get an acceptance.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? Nobody here has advised you that it's a good idea to apply without improving your application, and I don't think anyone would. The best advice is always to apply on the first day of the application cycle with the strongest app you can put together. That means having a unique PS, a strongly written activities section, LORs and MCAT scores already submitted, etc. If you're a reapplicant, this also means your PS is basically completely different and reflects introspection, your activities are rewritten and preferably updated with something new, or at least sustained commitment possibly with a new level of responsibility, and you've already done something that substantially improves your GPA, MCAT, or whatever may have been missing last time. You're planning to improve your application, but haven't yet. To me, it sounds like a gamble at best, and an opportunity wasted at worst.

A good friend of mine, who was also a reapplicant, ended up with a 510 MCAT mid-cycle and a very high (~3.8) GPA in an SMP with medical school classes didn't get into a school that basically said to reapply again this cycle. Improving your application mid-cycle after you've already applied is nowhere near as effective as starting fresh and EARLY the next cycle. You may have a shot this time, but each time you apply, you're expected to raise the bar. You haven't done that at all, and if anything, may look worse on paper if you were relying on grade replacement. So right now you're applying in a worse position than you were last time, not early, and you're hoping someone will accept your updates at a point during the cycle at which most interview invites have already gone out? Really bad idea.

You could instead focus on acing SMP classes and other substantial improvements, such as getting involved in grad school activities/research as early as now, and getting to know professors who will write letters for you next cycle. That's just my opinion. Anyone with money can keep sending in applications, but eventually not a single school will take them seriously.

 

[Mitochondrion21]

OP, have you done additional upper-level science coursework? Things like anatomy, immunology, genetics, histology, etc? If you have, then by all means go for the SMP now [Edit: though it would probably be better to apply after acing the SMP].

If not, taking and doing well in these classes, then applying next year, gives you 2 bites at the apple: by doing well in a full year of advanced courses, it might be enough to get you acceptance when you apply. And if not, then you can do the SMP as a final alternative. It will take longer, and might be more expensive, but it gives you 2 chances rather than 1.

If you decide to do the SMP, ace it, and perhaps beef up your ECs and get help with essays and the interview. Good luck!

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

My thoughts? Nobody here has advised you that it's a good idea to apply without improving your application, and I don't think anyone would. The best advice is always to apply on the first day of the application cycle with the strongest app you can put together. That means having a unique PS, a strongly written activities section, LORs and MCAT scores already submitted, etc. If you're a reapplicant, this also means your PS is basically completely different and reflects introspection, your activities are rewritten and preferably updated with something new, or at least sustained commitment possibly with a new level of responsibility, and you've already done something that substantially improves your GPA, MCAT, or whatever may have been missing last time. You're planning to improve your application, but haven't yet. To me, it sounds like a gamble at best, and an opportunity wasted at worst.

A good friend of mine, who was also a reapplicant, ended up with a 510 MCAT mid-cycle and a very high (~3.8) GPA in an SMP with medical school classes didn't get into a school that basically said to reapply again this cycle. Improving your application mid-cycle after you've already applied is nowhere near as effective as starting fresh and EARLY the next cycle. You may have a shot this time, but each time you apply, you're expected to raise the bar. You haven't done that at all, and if anything, may look worse on paper if you were relying on grade replacement. So right now you're applying in a worse position than you were last time, not early, and you're hoping someone will accept your updates at a point during the cycle at which most interview invites have already gone out? Really bad idea.

You could instead focus on acing SMP classes and other substantial improvements, such as getting involved in grad school activities/research as early as now, and getting to know professors who will write letters for you next cycle. That's just my opinion. Anyone with money can keep sending in applications, but eventually not a single school will take them seriously.

But whats the downside of applying again? Say I do have a great semester. That guarantees me an interview at whatever school I'm doing my SMP. Hopefully with whatever my app looks like I can get some other interviews as well.

I hear you about schools not taking app seriously and it not improved, but it will be improving. Shouldn't that be enough to get another 4 interviews? I really don't think schools are talking, like oh this kid keeps applying and doesn't really want it. If it didn't work out, I could just apply early the next cycle with the improved app, right?

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

OP, have you done additional upper-level science coursework? Things like anatomy, immunology, genetics, histology, etc? If you have, then by all means go for the SMP now [Edit: though it would probably be better to apply after acing the SMP].

If not, taking and doing well in these classes, then applying next year, gives you 2 bites at the apple: by doing well in a full year of advanced courses, it might be enough to get you acceptance when you apply. And if not, then you can do the SMP as a final alternative. It will take longer, and might be more expensive, but it gives you 2 chances rather than 1.

If you decide to do the SMP, ace it, and perhaps beef up your ECs and get help with essays and the interview. Good luck!

Already taken a lot of upper division coursework. Bio and psych major. Received secondaries at near every school I applied maybe except one or two. That's why I'm thinking SMP now.

What do you think about applying this cycle while going through an SMP? Yeah I wouldn't be applying with the new improved app, but it will be improving. I really just don't think I can do another gap year! I've been applying for a while now and am fully committed and ready. Its tough not to beat myself up, that oh I could already been in if I applied earlier first year, or aced MCAT on retake, or this or that. But I recognize I had some issues, not all academic (back pain from injuries and hair loss), but have since resolved those and ready for the rigors of medical school and really disheartened about the idea of having to wait longer to get in.

 

[njtrimed]

But whats the downside of applying again? Say I do have a great semester. That guarantees me an interview at whatever school I'm doing my SMP. Hopefully with whatever my app looks like I can get some other interviews as well.

I hear you about schools not taking app seriously and it not improved, but it will be improving. Shouldn't that be enough to get another 4 interviews? I really don't think schools are talking, like oh this kid keeps applying and doesn't really want it. If it didn't work out, I could just apply early the next cycle with the improved app, right?

The downside of applying now is that you didn't improve your app. ADCOMs look at multiple application cycles (and multiple MCAT attempts) as showing poor judgment. Each time you apply, it's another strike against you. They keep a file on you, and when they look at your current app, they look at everything else in that file. Why would you want to invest so much time and money on a cycle that is unlikely to be successful, and more likely to hurt you than help you in the long run?

And unless you're in an SMP that has a "back door" program where you will get into the med school with a certain GPA, that guaranteed interview may not be worth much.

People who get interviews late in the cycle sometimes do get in, but for the most part, the "before Thanksgiving" rule of thumb applies. Read this board some more so you understand how rolling admissions works, and why it's absolutely critical to apply at the beginning of the cycle, especially if you're not a superstar, but even if you do have a competitive app. It honestly seems like you are trying hard, but really missing the most important parts of the picture. And if you proceed without understanding how to navigate this process, it may eventually cost you a chance at becoming a doctor. If you have gotten four interviews before, you obviously have the raw material to get in; you've just gotten bad advice or haven't learned how to do this the right way. Be patient and willing to work hard and delay gratification, and you'll likely be matriculating in two years.

 

[Forever Geebs]

After reading through this thread, it appears that even though you haven't made it on three attempts, you're hell-bent on applying again for a fourth without making dramatic improvements to your application. Consensus is, from what I've gathered, to take courses, SMP, improve EC's, work on interview skills, etc. but I get the impression that despite all that, you want to gear up for a fourth application regardless. If that's the case, why bother asking for help if you insist on doing what you've been doing all along?

If you want advice, take it seriously and consider that what you've been doing--regardless of how many times you try it--will yield the same outcome unless you make a change.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

The downside of applying now is that you didn't improve your app. ADCOMs look at multiple application cycles (and multiple MCAT attempts) as showing poor judgment. Each time you apply, it's another strike against you. They keep a file on you, and when they look at your current app, they look at everything else in that file. Why would you want to invest so much time and money on a cycle that is unlikely to be successful, and more likely to hurt you than help you in the long run?

And unless you're in an SMP that has a "back door" program where you will get into the med school with a certain GPA, that guaranteed interview may not be worth much.

People who get interviews late in the cycle sometimes do get in, but for the most part, the "before Thanksgiving" rule of thumb applies. Read this board some more so you understand how rolling admissions works, and why it's absolutely critical to apply at the beginning of the cycle, especially if you're not a superstar, but even if you do have a competitive app. It honestly seems like you are trying hard, but really missing the most important parts of the picture. And if you proceed without understanding how to navigate this process, it may eventually cost you a chance at becoming a doctor. If you have gotten four interviews before, you obviously have the raw material to get in; you've just gotten bad advice or haven't learned how to do this the right way. Be patient and willing to work hard and delay gratification, and you'll likely be matriculating in two years.

I did apply early this cycle and didn't interview until after the new year. Apps were all in by August, but only LECOM granted me an early spot, to only be rejected 6 months later. I do understand how rolling admissions work, and that's why I was very upset that I was only offered late interview spots even tho I was in so early. Could this have been done on purpose? To interview their high priority applicants first and leave the borderlines for later to see who really shines?

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

After reading through this thread, it appears that even though you haven't made it on three attempts, you're hell-bent on applying again for a fourth without making dramatic improvements to your application. Consensus is, from what I've gathered, to take courses, SMP, improve EC's, work on interview skills, etc. but I get the impression that despite all that, you want to gear up for a fourth application regardless. If that's the case, why bother asking for help if you insist on doing what you've been doing all along?

If you want advice, take it seriously and consider that what you've been doing--regardless of how many times you try it--will yield the same outcome unless you make a change.

I'll see if I get accepted to a SMP and get back you you.

 

[njtrimed]

I did apply early this cycle and didn't interview until after the new year. Apps were all in by August, but only LECOM granted me an early spot, to only be rejected 6 months later. I do understand how rolling admissions work, and that's why I was very upset that I was only offered late interview spots even tho I was in so early. Could this have been done on purpose? To interview their high priority applicants first and leave the borderlines for later to see who really shines?

Not really. There are people with stats competitive for MD (3.7/33 or whatever) who have no MD acceptances and decide in December or January to apply DO. Generally, they interview people who are competitive pretty much as soon as they pass the initial screening and go to committee. If you apply in June and don't get an interview until January, your chances of acceptance are pretty low. They do have to have plenty of students on waitlists. Many schools won't even accept updates, or if they do, won't actually bother reading them- unless you had some incredible research breakthrough and ended up with a first author publication in Nature or something. Admissions is an extremely time-consuming process, which is why you're supposed to apply with your best possible application early in the cycle, because there is a whole committee involved, and they simply don't have the time to reconsider each application mid-cycle.

You're obviously intent on applying, and do not seem like you're going to listen to anyone's advice anyway, so I'm not going to waste my time repeating the same thing over and over. For the last time: applying for a fourth cycle with basically the same application that didn't get you in last year is a terrible idea, and has the potential kill your chances at ever getting accepted to any US medical school. Best of luck to you in your future.