how important is undergrad gpa? if i have low gpa no chance for 6 year one?
omfs
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Many medical schools will have a cut-off they are willing to allow. In general, medical schools have little input on actually being accepted to a residency program, but can certainly put a dead end to your application.
I made it into a six year OMFS program with an overall undergrad GPA of less than 3.5 from a very strong public university. It hurt me on some interviews but wasn't a problem at most places and I only interviewed at 6 the programs. They are way more concerned with your Dental school GPA, CBSE, recs, and Externships.
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back when I was interviewing in the early 2000's for a 6 yr spot at U Mich, the interview consisted of a round table discussion with several people - OS chair and program director, OS faculty, and Dean of Admissions at the Med School. At that time at least, they held you to the same academic standards as matriculating med students at U Mich. And that batch of students is very competitive. So I would say it is/was very important, at least at U Mich. Can't see it being any less important at programs affiliated with very competitive med schools like Harvard, Cornell, etc.
Wow that's surprising. Especially since dental school curriculum is so similar to med school you think they would weigh that over an undergrad GPA form a million years ago (for me at least my undergrad was a good 5 years ago and I'm only a D1 now...)
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If you happen to go into OMFS, you will quickly find that in many medical circles a dental degree is viewed about the same as a bachelors degree and is the only advanced degree where many people view more education as less qualified.
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Who is "many people"?
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Less qualified for what?
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Unless you go to a school like Columbia where dental and med students take basic science courses together, this is not the case
Apples and oranges. My med school experience at U Mich was punctuated with lots of small group critical thinking blocks, gross anatomy definitely was not watered down. My second year of dental school I was learning about RPD classification and physical properties of dental materials. 2nd yr at UMich was a systems based approach - Pulmonary section, cards section, etc. Exams included performing physicals on live patients. Dental school - all 4 yrs- was more like boot camp with (un)healthy doses of brow beating.
Try not to make blanket/unfounded statements on SDN , you may get hell reigned upon you.
Apples and oranges...
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I'm clearly making light of how people with dental degrees are viewed by "real doctors".
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Oh aha sounds good.
Um you took that way too far... I wasn't saying anyone should accept a dental degree as equivalent to medical, I'm saying it's way more relevant and way more indicative of success in the medical school portion of a 6 year omfs than random ass undergrad classes from many many years ago.
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not gonna turn this into a pissing contest. I read what you wrote. that's how I interpreted it
I don't know where you went to undergrad. my curriculum was intense, in many ways as difficult as the courseload in dental school. I think undergrad prepared me far better for the academic rigors of med school than the first 2 years of dental school.
you should learn to develop a thick skin. you have a ton of school ahead of you, and residency is no joke. no room for snowflakes there
M
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I'm genuinely curious how anyone could think undergrad is harder than the first year or two of dental school. Did you go to a joke of a program or what? I really don't see how that's possible...
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Mind your manners, cubby
Dental School was a challenging sink or swim experience, probably not as watered down as some of the programs you silver spooners attend, or will attend.
Undergrad was all about weeding out the weakest, survival of the most academically inclined. Sheer breadth of knowledge you had to consume was a much larger tsunami that DS.
You sound like a bitter pre-dent or struggling D1 by the way.
I definitely understand what you're saying, but no way was undergrad near D1 nor D2 level
Just think about the amount of classes, time spent in school, etc. Undergrad was technically a joke compared to this Localnative
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Nah I was successful at Cal and now I'm successful at UCLA dental. Really no comparison and I stand by my claim that there's no normal person who would consider undergrad to be more difficult.
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Children, pre-dents, lost in the wood deer in headlight dental students... perhaps some things are beyond your level of comprehension and should be left alone.
Teach thy tongue to say I do not know, and thou shalt progress, thus avoiding the aforementioned pissing contest.
And to that end, I bid you, 'adieu'.
Teach thy tongue to say I do not know, and thou shalt progress, thus avoiding the aforementioned pissing contest.
And to that end, I bid you, 'adieu'.
No pissing contest from my end, nor am I being condescending (unlike...)
I just gave my personal opinion
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Yeah it seriously doesn't matter.
i can get behind that
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give me a break. Undergrad was a joke. Dental school isn't exactly impossible; that's not what I'm saying at all. Just objectively more work. Odds are I could find a few people who thought high school was more work than undergrad but they wouldn't be in the majority.My high school was hard af! I didn't exactly have a brain back then though...
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So someone with a undergrad science GPA of 3.0-3.1 would not have a chance at OMFS?
D
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Are you required to have a personal statement as part of your application?
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For almost every 6yr program the medical school does have a say in who they can accept. I would think that each medical school would give a "cutoff GPA" to the program director so he or she can use that when sending out interview invites. I have heard of applicants not getting interviews at some 6yr programs because their undergrad GPA was too low (anecdotal evidence at best). That being said, a high CBSE could probably make up for lower undergrad GPA, depending on the program.
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Not trying to iron out the differences here, my undergrad was definitely a piece of cake compare to D school. However, some of my engineering counterpart didn't have it as easy as we science peeps. My ex girlfriend went to a pretty prestigious engineering program in Ontario, whereas we science peeps were whining about taking 5 classes a semester (aka full load), I remember in her first semester of first yr she took 9 classes. Granted, some were half credit classes, but that made her year worth of class count to approximately 17. As long as I could remember she was living in the library starting year one. If ur interested, feel free to Google engineering science in U of Toronto. That was no joke
better yet, some of them even made it to med school, I had no idea why they did that to themselves though,lol.So yes, I kinda believe some undergrad programs were intentionally heavy IOT weed out the weaklings.
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And to help correcting the derailed post, I think I can throw some stuffs in.
My buddy who's now in a 6 yr program told me they would look at undergrad GPA, and if it's too low (less than 3.5) it would be automatically put on another pile by the PD. That was done to save any comments/hassles from the med school admission office. Also, Emory I believe has an undergrad GPA cutoff (don't rmb exactly the number, but their website mentions it). That said, he also mentioned a solid CBSE score could potentially change the situation. So like anything else, since u can't undo undergrad GPA, just make sure u have a killer rest of the application pkg and give it still a shot. Who knows, u may find the result a pleasant surprise
Good luck!
My buddy who's now in a 6 yr program told me they would look at undergrad GPA, and if it's too low (less than 3.5) it would be automatically put on another pile by the PD. That was done to save any comments/hassles from the med school admission office. Also, Emory I believe has an undergrad GPA cutoff (don't rmb exactly the number, but their website mentions it). That said, he also mentioned a solid CBSE score could potentially change the situation. So like anything else, since u can't undo undergrad GPA, just make sure u have a killer rest of the application pkg and give it still a shot. Who knows, u may find the result a pleasant surprise
Good luck!
it's kinda sad. College was often a 2nd chance for those who did not have the maturity or desire to succeed in highschool. Imagine if dental schools discounted you for having a low rank in high school? And I can for a fact say some highschools are harder than some state schools.And to help correcting the derailed post, I think I can throw some stuffs in.
My buddy who's now in a 6 yr program told me they would look at undergrad GPA, and if it's too low (less than 3.5) it would be automatically put on another pile by the PD. That was done to save any comments/hassles from the med school admission office. Also, Emory I believe has an undergrad GPA cutoff (don't rmb exactly the number, but their website mentions it). That said, he also mentioned a solid CBSE score could potentially change the situation. So like anything else, since u can't undo undergrad GPA, just make sure u have a killer rest of the application pkg and give it still a shot. Who knows, u may find the result a pleasant surprise
Good luck!
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You could always go back to taking more undergraduate classes after you are done with your dental education, or even taking undergrad. classes concurrently with dental school. Opportunity cost analysis though..
In my experience : high school<<undergrad<<<<<<<<<dental school > medical school <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<residency
my undergrad GPA was average from a very solid public university and I got into a solid 6 year program. For what it is worth....
my undergrad GPA was average from a very solid public university and I got into a solid 6 year program. For what it is worth....
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If your undergrad GPA was good enough to get you into a decent dental school, and your dental school GPA/CBSE are good enough to Match, then OVERALL your profile fits the bill. I think most of the variability we're seeing on a case by case basis lies in the subjective areas (interviews, externships, recs)
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There are lots of threads that talk about how to study for the cbse if you search the site. Most people recommend uworld and first aid.
Look up something called UFAP or UFAPS to study for the CBSE. Be prepared to spend $$$.
For the 6 yr programs, think of it like this. You are not just applying to residency, but also to medical school. Therefore, like med student applications, your undergrad GPA will be taken into account. However, your undergrad performance will definitely not be as scrutinized as a regular medical student's application will be. At least you don't have to take the MCAT. If your undergrad GPA is just horrible, you can always just apply to 4 year programs.
For the 6 yr programs, think of it like this. You are not just applying to residency, but also to medical school. Therefore, like med student applications, your undergrad GPA will be taken into account. However, your undergrad performance will definitely not be as scrutinized as a regular medical student's application will be. At least you don't have to take the MCAT. If your undergrad GPA is just horrible, you can always just apply to 4 year programs.
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Lol
You apply to them together. The PASS application allows you to select each program, you can even apply to both the 4 year and 6 year routes at the same program.
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The med school at my hospital 6 year OMFS is a decline Committee. You must meet the minimum requirements of admission for the med school class to be admitted. Many good applicants from D school are declined.
You apply on PASS. The processing fee is $190 for one program and $75 for each additional program. Pretty sure there will be some supplemental fees as well.
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OMFS PD at my school told our OMFS Society during a meeting that there is, in fact, a cut off for your undergrad GPA and if I can recall correctly, I believe he said 3.2 is the cut off. I remember because one of my buddies has a not so stellar undergrad (around ~3.0-3.2) but he did very well in his masters so he raised that question to him.
So did they say they look at the masters?
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I feel like I can't turn my back for a few minutes without you damn kids getting into trouble. Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen, because this is going to get hairy.
I usually find it valuable to start at the beginning:
Like many things in life, the most accurate answer is usually the most boring. In this case (and, incidentally, almost literally every other case) the answer is: "It depends." To elaborate, there aren't any sort of standardized admissions criteria for medical school. Remember, these places aren't monoliths. They're groups of people just like you and me, who individually all have different preferences, beliefs, biases, goals, desires, and all those other pesky human characteristics. Some of them are even vegans, to give you an example of how misguided they can be. When these schools convene committees to select their incoming classes, all of those desires get chunked into a pool, combined with other stuff like seniority, academic rank, social status, influence and the like, and out comes the type of student the school is looking for. Depending on what school you talk to, you're going to get wildly different answers for "What are you looking for in an applicant?" Some medical schools lean heavily on MCAT scores, some on undergraduate GPA, some on scholarship or community service. Some may heavily weight non-academic factors like religion or ethnicity. Dental schools are the same way.
Now boil that down to an OMS residency, where the number of people involved directly in admissions decisions shrinks to a number you can count on your hands. The variation you can expect in the same question ("What are you looking for in an applicant?") increases exponentially. In some cases (not all), one of the influencing parties is the medical school. How they do that depends on whatever deal the program director/chair (or some previous director who has since long vanished) has enshrined with the medical school. As a diligent reader of the above thread would agree, these also vary wildly. Sometimes they are based on undergrad GPA, sometimes admissions exam scores, sometimes other factors ("We trust the decisions of the program director" is probably more common than you think).
There is not a clean answer to the original question. A better one might be "I have a low undergraduate GPA. What OMS programs should I avoid wasting my money on?"
I usually find it valuable to start at the beginning:
Like many things in life, the most accurate answer is usually the most boring. In this case (and, incidentally, almost literally every other case) the answer is: "It depends." To elaborate, there aren't any sort of standardized admissions criteria for medical school. Remember, these places aren't monoliths. They're groups of people just like you and me, who individually all have different preferences, beliefs, biases, goals, desires, and all those other pesky human characteristics. Some of them are even vegans, to give you an example of how misguided they can be. When these schools convene committees to select their incoming classes, all of those desires get chunked into a pool, combined with other stuff like seniority, academic rank, social status, influence and the like, and out comes the type of student the school is looking for. Depending on what school you talk to, you're going to get wildly different answers for "What are you looking for in an applicant?" Some medical schools lean heavily on MCAT scores, some on undergraduate GPA, some on scholarship or community service. Some may heavily weight non-academic factors like religion or ethnicity. Dental schools are the same way.
Now boil that down to an OMS residency, where the number of people involved directly in admissions decisions shrinks to a number you can count on your hands. The variation you can expect in the same question ("What are you looking for in an applicant?") increases exponentially. In some cases (not all), one of the influencing parties is the medical school. How they do that depends on whatever deal the program director/chair (or some previous director who has since long vanished) has enshrined with the medical school. As a diligent reader of the above thread would agree, these also vary wildly. Sometimes they are based on undergrad GPA, sometimes admissions exam scores, sometimes other factors ("We trust the decisions of the program director" is probably more common than you think).
There is not a clean answer to the original question. A better one might be "I have a low undergraduate GPA. What OMS programs should I avoid wasting my money on?"
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You can't blame them for believing that becoming a physician...scratch that, M.D. (Since D.O.s don't count either) puts them on top of some sort of imaginary "Healthcare Academic Achievement Ladder." They've spent their entire lives being told how amazing they are for becoming an M.D. by their mom, grandparents and every other distant relative with access to a Facebook account. That's reinforced by the media, since when was the last time you saw a dentist on TV/in a movie that wasn't either a bumbling ***** or some sort of serial killer? (For an interesting look at media effects on academic medicine, look at the rise in academic quality and number of Emergency Medicine residency applicants correlated with the popularity of the T.V. show ER). Ever try to impress a girl at a bar by telling her about how rigorous your Podiatry school was? Even to us, that sounds like an excuse. There's a big ego boost that comes with those letters, and it takes a lot of very specific experiences, self-reflection and time for many to overcome them. Don't we even play into this? What reason is there for an OMS to obtain an M.D. that isn't manufactured or cultural? Why are there no 6-year combined D.O. residencies?
