Oklahoma optometrists doing LASIK

[Oculomotor]

Clinical pharm is what the OD's. MD's, DDS's, and DPM's need! The serious hard core pharm is for you guys (PharmD's) to deal with! lol We have enough of all the other aspects of eye training to deal with---Vision Science, Clinical Training, Medical Sciences, among others......

What do you do? Are you a retail pharmacist or clinical?

---

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[Mye Eye]

MAYOphtho,

If you notice in ALL my posts I have never degraded or diminished the ability or training of OMD's. The same be said by your own colleagues on here. When I say "unprofessional" that is what I am referring to. Hell, Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are both eye doctors and don't practice in a vacuum....

Well good, I'm not glad we have YOUR definition of "unprofessional." My definition of unprofessional is your behavior on here.

Thank you for your time and have a lovely day...

(see, I can use smileys too!)

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Are you a retail pharmacist or clinical?

I work in a hospital 50/50 split staff/clinical role. I go on rounds some days, other days I do order entry. 10 hour shift, 4 days a week. Pretty sweet gig.

 

[Oculomotor]

Mye Eye,

Are you kettle calling the pot (me) black? Wow, hipocracy manifested on an ophthalmology forum! If you want I can dig up past wonderful posts by your colleagues that:

1) degrade Doctors of Optometry

2) diminish the abilities of Doctors of Optometry

3) vain attempts at using "patient safety" to disguise
the fact that market share threats are the real
impetus behind the opposition to OD's doing what
they are TRAINED to do in a doctor of optometry
program in 2009, in the 21st century, in the United States,
on the planet earth (93 million miles from the sun (sol) and
2.3 light years from the nearest star--Alpha Centari)

4) unbelievable arrogance by medical students such as yourself
who are in the "I want to save the world" and put on the
magical white coat and then the sky will part as the light of god will
illuminate you when you write your first real prescription in residency--mode.
(to be fair, I have run into a couple dental students like that too but no
optometry students---sorry)

5) Before you accuse me of being unprofessional why don't you
look at some of your fellow medical student's posts on here
and on the OD forum or I can look them up for you and make
a proverbial "library".


Have a nice day and good luck getting into an ophthalmology residency!
Hint: be in the top 15% of your class, score 230+ on your USMLE's, and have good LOR's from your preceptors! Have a pleasant day good friend. (look I can use other icons on here too!)

 

[speyeder]

Mye Eye,

Are you kettle calling the pot (me) black? Wow, hipocracy manifested on an ophthalmology forum! If you want I can dig up past wonderful posts by your colleagues that:

1) degrade Doctors of Optometry

2) diminish the abilities of Doctors of Optometry

3) vain attempts at using "patient safety" to disguise
the fact that market share threats are the real
impetus behind the opposition to OD's doing what
they are TRAINED to do in a doctor of optometry
program in 2009, in the 21st century, in the United States,
on the planet earth (93 million miles from the sun (sol) and
2.3 light years from the nearest star--Alpha Centari)

4) unbelievable arrogance by medical students such as yourself
who are in the "I want to save the world" and put on the
magical white coat and then the sky will part as the light of god will
illuminate you when you write your first real prescription in residency--mode.
(to be fair, I have run into a couple dental students like that too but no
optometry students---sorry)

5) Before you accuse me of being unprofessional why don't you
look at some of your fellow medical student's posts on here
and on the OD forum or I can look them up for you and make
a proverbial "library".


Have a nice day and good luck getting into an ophthalmology residency!
Hint: be in the top 15% of your class, score 230+ on your USMLE's, and have good LOR's from your preceptors! Have a pleasant day good friend. (look I can use other icons on here too!)

You get my vote for the most useless posts.

 

[Mye Eye]

Mye Eye,

Have a nice day and good luck getting into an ophthalmology residency!
Hint: be in the top 15% of your class, score 230+ on your USMLE's, and have good LOR's from your preceptors! Have a pleasant day good friend. (look I can use other icons on here too!)

Thanks for the advice on how to match...but I'm actually a resident now, matched into a TOP (yes TOP) program...but you see, when you're VERY busy in residency you dont always have the time to spend trolling the forums and updating your status from med student to resident...sorry if this is unappealing to you, but with all due respect...let me get RIGHT ON THAT and change it now, dear friend

again, your advice on how to match into Ophtho is so helpful...if only I'd had it when I was applying, then maybe I could have matched....

 

[asmallchild]

Account on hold. The optometry student fought valiantly. But in vain.

 

[MAYOphtho]

Account on hold. The optometry student fought valiantly. But in vain.

wow, without him picking fights on here, it's gotten rather quiet. Anyone have some thoughts on this topic now that there may be some chance for a civilized discussion without oculomotor chiming in?

 

[Oculomotor]

CHIME CHIME CHIME CHIME!!!!!!!

Sorry MayOphtho, I could not resist! lol Asmallchild----this is an optometry student (ex-business owner and personal trainer) that does not give up!

Note:
West Virginia, South Carolina, and Nebraska all have bills on the table to add "limited laser procedures". Whether or not they succeed there is one thing to note

1970----optometrists had no diagnostic drugs or therapteutic drugs
1997----optometrists gained diagnostic drugs in every state and ocular
medications in every state
172 scope of practice victories later
2009----optometrists have oral drug privileges in 47 states and laser
surgery privileges in one state

Now there is a ramping up of legislative efforts to expand into ocular injections (primarily peri-ocular) this is the next goal.

Do you notice a trend?
Medicine has not been successful in stopping it. Now 1 out of 2 opthalmology practices work with OD's in the practice itself. 90+% of OD's work independently while less than 10% are employed in ophthalmology practices. Ophthalmology is cohabitating and might as well declare a marriage!

I believe that market forces (ergo supply and demand) will drive further changes in the eye care market as well as health care in general. If Obama'a administration get its way then cost-cutting, providing EVERYBODY with access to care, and government control in my opinion will equate to GREATER scope of practice for non-MD/DO doctors (optometrists, podiatrists, dentists, etc) and other providers. I think that these changes are enevitable (like cows leaviing the barn). Getting limited laser privileges (YAGS, ALT's , SLT's, etc...) to me is acceptable for doctors of optometry but beyond that----> cataract, retina, oculoplastics, or whatever should only be done by ophthalmologists UNLESS there is the creation of a 4 yr OD surgery residency similar to OMFS in dentistry. Does anyone have a comment about the current economic/political situation?


PEACE NO INTENTION TO INFLAME OR TROLL----JUST DEBATE.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I have a few thoughts...

1) The SC bill is not going to happen this year, its essentially dead as of right now. Frankly, I don't see it happening anytime soon as many of the pro-OD legislators got voted out in Nov.

2) Stop it, just stop. You're making ODs look bad and riling up the MDs, neither of which y'all need. You're excited about scope expansion, good for you - post it in the OD forum.

3) Don't revive an antagonistic thread for no good reason (and no, this wasn't a good reason). Things have been very quiet around here, why would you change that.

 

[Oculomotor]

Va Hopeful,

Actually, the SC bill is very alive (I called the state association on Monday) the usual modifications are being made to it...but I assure you it is alive and breathing. So what you are basically saying is not to speak of anything such as :

1) Laser surgery privileges
2) Expanded therapeutic armamentarium
3) Using the word "physician"----although OD's are physicians under medicare medicaid & social security.

Or anything that is a valid "real life issue" such as scope expansion in optometry/ophthalmology because it is going to offend some OMD"s, OMD's residents, or med students on this forum?

my answer to you is------NO.

I am just one of the few people optometry student or optometrist that is willing to say what "everyone" else is thinking. If I told you that probably 1/2 the students I know share my opinions but only 5% are willing to say anything out loud you would probably be suprised.

A survey was done in Review of Optometry of how many OD's would be interested in using laser procedures with the

http://www.revoptom.com/index.asp?page=2_14071.htm
majority saying "yes".

Using the representative sample in the survey and a little extrapolation---->30% said they would return to school for two more years to gain surgical privileges--out of 40,000 OD's practicing that means that 12,000 of them (a number close to the 15,000 OMD's in the country) would go back to school for 2 more years to get surgical privileges and roughly 31,200 would not oppose OD's having surgical privileges. Interesting......


Whether I am excited about scope expansion or not is entirely missing the point. It is a relevant issue because they created a Optometrists doing sugery in Oklahoma thread on the OMD forum here! I am a "legislatively active" optometry student------> of course I am going to talk about it. My last post was not inflammatory in the least. The AMA obviously thinks the topics I speak about are relevant (SOPP--Scope of Practice Partnership).

THE POINT OF A FORUM IS GET PEOPLE TO DEBATE

 

[KHE]

my answer to you is------NO.

I am just one of the few people optometry student or optometrist that is willing to say what "everyone" else is thinking. If I told you that probably 1/2 the students I know share my opinions but only 5% are willing to say anything out loud you would probably be suprised.

A survey was done in Review of Optometry of how many OD's would be interested in using laser procedures with the

http://www.revoptom.com/index.asp?page=2_14071.htm
majority saying "yes".

Using the representative sample in the survey and a little extrapolation---->30% said they would return to school for two more years to gain surgical privileges--out of 40,000 OD's practicing that means that 12,000 of them (a number close to the 15,000 OMD's in the country) would go back to school for 2 more years to get surgical privileges and roughly 31,200 would not oppose OD's having surgical privileges. Interesting......


Whether I am excited about scope expansion or not is entirely missing the point. It is a relevant issue because they created a Optometrists doing sugery in Oklahoma thread on the OMD forum here! I am a "legislatively active" optometry student------> of course I am going to talk about it. My last post was not inflammatory in the least. The AMA obviously thinks the topics I speak about are relevant (SOPP--Scope of Practice Partnership).

THE POINT OF A FORUM IS GET PEOPLE TO DEBATE

*sigh*

I don't know how many times I can say this.

Let's assume that your review of optometry stats are true. (Review of optometry is not exactly a peer reviewed journal but whatever....)

If 30% of practitioners did this, then you are right. We would have 12000 additional laser surgery providers out there. What is the economic impact of this?

Well...you're going to DOUBLE the supply of providers essentially overnight, but you're going to leave demand EXACTLY THE SAME! What is this going to do to fees and reimbursements? It doesn't take a PhD or a Nobel Prize in economics to figure out that it's going to make them crash through the floor!

We will look back on the days of the $299 per eye billboard advertising on the side of the highway as the "golden age of lasik." We will look at the $300 per eye reimbursement on a YAG to be the "golden age of cataract surgery."

This is sheer LUNACY. ODs will never en masse recoup the investment needed for training and licensure to do these things never mind that that it will liquidate every bit of political and financial capital that optometry has.

This is a TERRIBLE idea on SO MANY levels.

 

[chisoxwin]

Va Hopeful,

Actually, the SC bill is very alive (I called the state association on Monday) the usual modifications are being made to it...but I assure you it is alive and breathing. So what you are basically saying is not to speak of anything such as :

1) Laser surgery privileges
2) Expanded therapeutic armamentarium
3) Using the word "physician"----although OD's are physicians under medicare medicaid & social security.

Or anything that is a valid "real life issue" such as scope expansion in optometry/ophthalmology because it is going to offend some OMD"s, OMD's residents, or med students on this forum?

my answer to you is------NO.

I am just one of the few people optometry student or optometrist that is willing to say what "everyone" else is thinking. If I told you that probably 1/2 the students I know share my opinions but only 5% are willing to say anything out loud you would probably be suprised.

I've been watching this debate since I was in school. I can't wait until you get out in the real world and realize that there really is no need for optometrists to be doing these procedures. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that you probably could learn how to do laser procedures and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you wouldn't be able to do them often enough to become proficient at them. Let me just throw out a hypothetical situation here. Let's say that a close friend needed a YAG or SLT (granted a minor procedure). Would you send them to a surgeon who does them every day or would you do it yourself even though you did 2 per month? Oh, and don't assume that "everyone" else thinks like you. I assure you, they don't.

 

[MAYOphtho]

A survey was done in Review of Optometry of how many OD's would be interested in using laser procedures with the

http://www.revoptom.com/index.asp?page=2_14071.htm
majority saying "yes".

What you dont mention is that in this same set of surveys, there is one that asks "should optometry endose opticians to write glasses prescriptions?" and 93% say no. Why might this be? This is because it is outside of their scope of practice. Could they be trained do so? Of course. Would Optometry support this? Apparently not because they know this would cut into their share of the market AND be outside of their original training. This is much like the fact with your surgical training.

Thank you for this hypocrisy. Please stop posting in the Ophthalmology forum. Yes, there is a great availability for debate when necessary. Your posts, on the other hand, are just painfully self-righteous. There is an Optometry forum openly available and you can be your own cheerleader there without everyone else getting annoyed by your posts.

Have a nice day.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Va Hopeful,

Actually, the SC bill is very alive (I called the state association on Monday) the usual modifications are being made to it...but I assure you it is alive and breathing. So what you are basically saying is not to speak of anything such as :

1) Laser surgery privileges
2) Expanded therapeutic armamentarium
3) Using the word "physician"----although OD's are physicians under medicare medicaid & social security.

Or anything that is a valid "real life issue" such as scope expansion in optometry/ophthalmology because it is going to offend some OMD"s, OMD's residents, or med students on this forum?

my answer to you is------NO.

I am just one of the few people optometry student or optometrist that is willing to say what "everyone" else is thinking. If I told you that probably 1/2 the students I know share my opinions but only 5% are willing to say anything out loud you would probably be suprised.

A survey was done in Review of Optometry of how many OD's would be interested in using laser procedures with the

http://www.revoptom.com/index.asp?page=2_14071.htm
majority saying "yes".

Using the representative sample in the survey and a little extrapolation---->30% said they would return to school for two more years to gain surgical privileges--out of 40,000 OD's practicing that means that 12,000 of them (a number close to the 15,000 OMD's in the country) would go back to school for 2 more years to get surgical privileges and roughly 31,200 would not oppose OD's having surgical privileges. Interesting......


Whether I am excited about scope expansion or not is entirely missing the point. It is a relevant issue because they created a Optometrists doing sugery in Oklahoma thread on the OMD forum here! I am a "legislatively active" optometry student------> of course I am going to talk about it. My last post was not inflammatory in the least. The AMA obviously thinks the topics I speak about are relevant (SOPP--Scope of Practice Partnership).

THE POINT OF A FORUM IS GET PEOPLE TO DEBATE

I spoke with some of the MDs present at the first meeting, they assured me that the bill is not getting done this session. I also know the ODs in the top positions in the SCOA currently, and I don't trust any of them to be truthful on these matters.

I'm not trying to stifle debate, I'm just saying don't do it in the MD forum. None of them are ever going to change their minds and none of you guys are either. It ceases to be a debate at that point and becomes just a shouting match. That serves no one.

I still maintain, as do many of your colleagues, that optometry as more important things to worry about at the moment than lasers and oral steroids.

 

[Ehorizon]

I'm not generally one for forums but found it compelling to mention something: I think everyone should take a step back and think about things in a broader perspective.
Let's say that optometrists could be allowed to train to perform ocular surgery (the full scope)...not just minor procedures (eg any non-endoscopic lasers, pterygia, blephs etc.). Who are the only qualified people to teach this art? I think those people would likely have significant input into the training and certification of those optometrists. Either way ophthalmologists are the eye surgeons.
I do think that most U.S. Mds spend too much time doing things that they don't need to practice. (I am one). I could easily have been a skilled eye surgeon at 26, but will have to be one a little later because of BS that i didn't need.
In order for anyone to successfully manage ocular disease (not physics) one has to have an understanding of all of the biological responses to injury. It's true that SLTs and YAGS could be performed by anyone (as could blephs, PRPs or CPC). But what happens when the one out of a thaousand patients develops acute anaphylaxis, has an oculobradycardic episode, has a missed sebaceous cell carcinoma or has Hermansky-Pudlak? Not to mention develops malignant glaucoma after a YAG? You need to know all of that stuff, too. So I say ophthalmologist should chill, or chill and then open up a school for optometrists. Sounds fine to me.

 

[Ehorizon]

so who's with me? We can charge $500,00 for six years...3 +3 MD/Eye surgeon, require 35+ on the MCAT and two peer reviewed publications to be accepted. I bet we would make some unbelievable clinicians ..and dominate the "market share".

 

[KHE]

I've been watching this debate since I was in school. I can't wait until you get out in the real world and realize that there really is no need for optometrists to be doing these procedures. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that you probably could learn how to do laser procedures and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you wouldn't be able to do them often enough to become proficient at them. Let me just throw out a hypothetical situation here. Let's say that a close friend needed a YAG or SLT (granted a minor procedure). Would you send them to a surgeon who does them every day or would you do it yourself even though you did 2 per month? Oh, and don't assume that "everyone" else thinks like you. I assure you, they don't.

I don't understand why this debate continues to rage so much.

Could optometry schools train people to safely and adequately perform the majority of eye care procedures out there in 4 years? Of course. Dentists and Podiatrists do not go to allopathic or osteopathic medical schools yet they perform some fairly invasive procedures on a daily basis and yet the streets are not littered with people killed from having root canals or ankle surgery from these "non-MD" providers.

But for the 100th time, and as the above poster points out, it makes NO ECONOMIC SENSE TO DO THIS! YAG? PI? SLT? Pleeeeeasssee! Since the start of the year, I can count on one hand the number of patients in my two and a half doctor practice that could have benefited from these procedures. That makes for about a dozen patients a YEAR. I'm going to spend all kinds of time and money to get certified to do something I could do once a month? I wouldn't do it for the CURRENT reimsurbement levels much less the reimbursement levels which will become about half of what they are now if we double the supply of providers over night yet keep demand THE SAME! LASIK makes the most sense for ODs to perform because it's a refractive procedure, non invasive, and optometry has been historically refractive based. But EVEN THAT makes no sense from an economic standpoint! I'm not undergoing massive amounts of training and certification and spending a quarter million on a laser so I can charge $299 per eye. Makes NO SENSE! It would sill make no sense of ODs banded together and bought a laser and leased it to each other. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE!

There is NO UNMET NEED OUT THERE FOR THESE PROCEDURES!

 

[chisoxwin]

I don't understand why this debate continues to rage so much.

Could optometry schools train people to safely and adequately perform the majority of eye care procedures out there in 4 years? Of course. Dentists and Podiatrists do not go to allopathic or osteopathic medical schools yet they perform some fairly invasive procedures on a daily basis and yet the streets are not littered with people killed from having root canals or ankle surgery from these "non-MD" providers.

But for the 100th time, and as the above poster points out, it makes NO ECONOMIC SENSE TO DO THIS! YAG? PI? SLT? Pleeeeeasssee! Since the start of the year, I can count on one hand the number of patients in my two and a half doctor practice that could have benefited from these procedures. That makes for about a dozen patients a YEAR. I'm going to spend all kinds of time and money to get certified to do something I could do once a month? I wouldn't do it for the CURRENT reimsurbement levels much less the reimbursement levels which will become about half of what they are now if we double the supply of providers over night yet keep demand THE SAME! LASIK makes the most sense for ODs to perform because it's a refractive procedure, non invasive, and optometry has been historically refractive based. But EVEN THAT makes no sense from an economic standpoint! I'm not undergoing massive amounts of training and certification and spending a quarter million on a laser so I can charge $299 per eye. Makes NO SENSE! It would sill make no sense of ODs banded together and bought a laser and leased it to each other. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE!

There is NO UNMET NEED OUT THERE FOR THESE PROCEDURES!

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Optometrists are primary eyecare providers, and there is no need (economically or otherwise) for us to do these procedures.

 

[Oculomotor]

MayOphtho, did I hit a nerve? I am not attacking you but your post seems a little hostile.

KHE, you make good points about economics but nobody really knows what would happen unless well----it happened!

Ehorizon, like I stated earlier, Dentistry has a surgery residency and those folks are at the top of their dental school. If optometry had one it would involve similarly acheiving optometry students. The top 5-10% of an optometry school class would definitley be good enough. Let us not forget about podiatry too (which has the easiest admissions "on average" between medicine--dentistry--optomery--podiatry and they do many surgical procedures and complete a residency. Podiatry is a fine profession and not ONE of them went to medical school. It is well within the scope of practice and training for most OD's to treat and manage primary ocular disease (glaucoma, allergies, infections, inflammation, etc...) I see it done all the time in the clinics and practices I rotate through.


chisoxwin, to answer your question, if I was good at the procedure and confident I would do it. If not I definitely would send it to a surgeon. Good point though.


I tend to agree with KHE that the "supply and demand" would make questionable profitability with these procedures.

Interesting debate.

 

[KHE]

MayOphtho, did I hit a nerve? I am not attacking you but your post seems a little hostile.

KHE, you make good points about economics but nobody really knows what would happen unless well----it happened!


I tend to agree with KHE that the "supply and demand" would make questionable profitability with these procedures.

Interesting debate.

No one knows what would happen? What? Do you honestly thing that somehow this situation isn't immune to the laws of supply and demand?

 

[Oculomotor]

KHE,

To be sure, the supply and demand concept is very valid in theory. I am just saying that noone can predict the future.

 

[PBEA]

No one knows what would happen? What? Do you honestly thing that somehow this situation isn't immune to the laws of supply and demand?

just stoking the fires Ken, but RVU's are not based on "supply and demand", so for medically indicated procedures more providers would NOT lower the cost. For the cosmetic procedures like lasik, sure, but not the others.

Me personally, I think "something" does need to happen with regard to OD vs OMD. We exist in a perpetual stalemate and constant battle, with some slow erosions on either side. We have no manpower control, and it does affect both sides. Needless cost, confused public, confused policymakers, and even confusing each other. Neither will yield, this much is certain. Either ODs take the ball and establish residencies for surgery, or medicine takes the ball and establishes medical residency for optometrists. Specialization is here to stay, because it is better (if I see another PCP toss patanol at iritis I will kill something.....j/k). Just a matter of time before the dam breaks folks, so whats it going to be?

 

[KHE]

just stoking the fires Ken, but RVU's are not based on "supply and demand", so for medically indicated procedures more providers would NOT lower the cost. For the cosmetic procedures like lasik, sure, but not the others.

I understand that but RVUs aren't determined in a vacuum or carved into a stone that came down off of Mt. Sinai. CMS is a bloated government bureacracy but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that if you have 12000 newly minted laser surgeons ready to point and click and ready to outbid each other for the fun of doing that, it's not going to take too long for those RVUs to be recalculated.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I understand that but RVUs aren't determined in a vacuum or carved into a stone that came down off of Mt. Sinai. CMS is a bloated government bureacracy but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that if you have 12000 newly minted laser surgeons ready to point and click and ready to outbid each other for the fun of doing that, it's not going to take too long for those RVUs to be recalculated.

The laser companies can flock to your meetings and spin wild tales of how you can pay for their machine in the first two months and build your practice base and all that rubbish. They will get a few gullible people to believe them. Then you will have quite a few underutilized machines and a few overutilized machines (if you get my drift).

Laser privileges are illusory. Maybe you dream of a future where you can charge $5500 for Intralase LASIK and people will drive right past the laser center that has been open for years to go to your center which you will own with your similarly interested optometrists and for which you can share the liability of its investment costs. Maybe you dream of approaching a big player (no names here) and make them an offer they can't refuse: you get both the pre/post share and the surgeon share or they can close their doors. Whatever, it won't work, at least not the way you would believe. As others have said, there is no unmet need for providers of any kind of laser
procedure.

The bonanza would be for the laser manufacturers who will make a bundle selling machines, the equipment finance companies charging the buyers a nice vig on the monthly payment and eventually, the white sheet salespersons whose wares will be used to cover up the unused high-tech boat anchors whose buyers will not have the opportunity to use as expected and who will be still too chagrined to sell.

Ophthalmologists have been targets of this kind of marketing for years.

 

[speyeder]

The laser companies can flock to your meetings and spin wild tales of how you can pay for their machine in the first two months and build your practice base and all that rubbish. They will get a few gullible people to believe them. Then you will have quite a few underutilized machines and a few overutilized machines (if you get my drift).

Laser privileges are illusory. Maybe you dream of a future where you can charge $5500 for Intralase LASIK and people will drive right past the laser center that has been open for years to go to your center which you will own with your similarly interested optometrists and for which you can share the liability of its investment costs. Maybe you dream of approaching a big player (no names here) and make them an offer they can't refuse: you get both the pre/post share and the surgeon share or they can close their doors. Whatever, it won't work, at least not the way you would believe. As others have said, there is no unmet need for providers of any kind of laser
procedure.

The bonanza would be for the laser manufacturers who will make a bundle selling machines, the equipment finance companies charging the buyers a nice vig on the monthly payment and eventually, the white sheet salespersons whose wares will be used to cover up the unused high-tech boat anchors whose buyers will not have the opportunity to use as expected and who will be still too chagrined to sell.

Ophthalmologists have been targets of this kind of marketing for years.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[OD/ MD student]

unbelievable. Are Oklahoma OD's allowed to perform Lasik? Call the state board, investigate him, this OD is a sick dude!

Not really unbelievable "dude." This year or next I believe marks the 25th year of Doctor's of Optometry performing laser eye surgery and PRK. I would be more than happy to have you sit in on my PRK eye surgeries if you want to increase your knowledge base so you don't make such an uneducated statement. Why would you "investigate" someone who is operating according to what is taught in the normal curriculum and practicing within the confines of applicable state law? This statement makes no sense.

 

[DrZeke]

Not really unbelievable "dude." This year or next I believe marks the 25th year of Doctor's of Optometry performing laser eye surgery and PRK. I would be more than happy to have you sit in on my PRK eye surgeries if you want to increase your knowledge base so you don't make such an uneducated statement. Why would you "investigate" someone who is operating according to what is taught in the normal curriculum and practicing within the confines of applicable state law? This statement makes no sense.

Give it a rest. We get it, you're an optometrist that was trained to do LASIK. And since you're so satisfied with it and believe in the validity of optometrists performing LASIK and PRK, you've chosen to go into debt and risk everything by going to medical school in the Caribbean - an unlikely avenue to Ophthalmology residency....



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[awftho]

Not really unbelievable "dude." This year or next I believe marks the 25th year of Doctor's of Optometry performing laser eye surgery and PRK. I would be more than happy to have you sit in on my PRK eye surgeries if you want to increase your knowledge base so you don't make such an uneducated statement. Why would you "investigate" someone who is operating according to what is taught in the normal curriculum and practicing within the confines of applicable state law? This statement makes no sense.

No one is interested in watching you do PRK. No one is impressed by you either. Please go away.

 

[OD/ MD student]

No one is interested in watching you do PRK. No one is impressed by you either. Please go away.

I don't think so my brother. I'm not going anywhere and neither is my profession moving itself forward and evolving and utilizing our Doctor training in the use of lasers. Over these next few years nearly every school will have lasers as a standard part of the curriculum. And predictably, many more states will be amplifying our ability to utilize our laser surgical training. You fear what you do not know. You will refuse to open your eyes. Even refuse to sit in on these procedures being performed by Doctor's of Optometry. That type of blinded and stubborn intolerance is the reason why you are not making intelligent statements. I can lead you to the watering hole but I cannot make you drink the water...

 

[Slide]

I don't think so my brother. I'm not going anywhere and neither is my profession moving itself forward and evolving and utilizing our Doctor training in the use of lasers. Over these next few years nearly every school will have lasers as a standard part of the curriculum. And predictably, many more states will be amplifying our ability to utilize our laser surgical training. You fear what you do not know. You will refuse to open your eyes. Even refuse to sit in on these procedures being performed by Doctor's of Optometry. That type of blinded and stubborn intolerance is the reason why you are not making intelligent statements. I can lead you to the watering hole but I cannot make you drink the water...

Please stop. Just stop. You're not going to change anyone's mind here. No ophthalmologist here is going to take you seriously because you exhibit traits that we try to screen against when we interview applicants. People like you are the reason we have one of the most rigorous licensing requirements in the field of medicine.

 

[OD/ MD student]

Please stop. Just stop. You're not going to change anyone's mind here. No ophthalmologist here is going to take you seriously because you exhibit traits that we try to screen against when we interview applicants. People like you are the reason we have one of the most rigorous licensing requirements in the field of medicine.

I"m probably more trained in on PRK than you are right now and a better candidate than you ever were for an ophthalmology residency. Think twice before you speak once.

 

[Slide]

I"m probably more trained in on PRK than you are right now and a better candidate than you ever were for an ophthalmology residency. Think twice before you speak once.

Oh really tough guy? How so? Put up or shut up. For one thing, I haven't filed for bankruptcy ever. And another, I graduated medical school in the US.

 

[OD/ MD student]

Brign it on hater. You think you can do it better than me. I don't think so....

 

[Slide]

Well given that I'm nearly done with my surgical retina fellowship and about to be staff at an ACGME academic institution at half your age, I don't think I'm the insecure one here

 

[OD/ MD student]

Well given that I'm nearly done with my surgical retina fellowship and about to be staff at an ACGME academic institution at half your age, I don't think I'm the insecure one here

why don't we open a cornea retinal surgical clinic. You can do all the retinal surgery and I'll handle all the corneal PRK and SLT surgery. Want to sit down and talk about it out in the open? We've got ASCRS coming up in may and Academy of Ophthalmology in November 2017. Be happy to meet with you one on one, face to face to discuss things further.

 

[Slide]

Brign it on hater. You think you can do it better than me. I don't think so....

why don't we open a cornea retinal surgical clinic. You can do all the retinal surgery and I'll handle all the corneal PRK and SLT surgery. Want to sit down and talk about it out in the open? We've got ASCRS coming up in may and Academy of Ophthalmology in November 2017. Be happy to meet with you one on one, face to face to discuss things further.

Love the pivot

I'll have plenty of residents and attendings for anterior segment procedures to refer to, so no thanks. If I'm going to AAO this year and not presenting, I'd love to have a public debate but I'll warn you, it won't be a friendly one.

 

[OD/ MD student]

I'm pretty sure I could handle you.

 

[DrZeke]

I"m probably more trained in on PRK than you are right now and a better candidate than you ever were for an ophthalmology residency. Think twice before you speak once.

Slide was an extremely competitive applicant for residency and fellowship. You want us to take you seriously and all that, but you're in severe denial about your situation. You go to a Caribbean medical school and keep denying how that impacts your chances at an American ophthalmology residency.

You're extremely selective about what you choose to respond to. It's very childish and if you're serious about Ophtho it will ultimately hold you back from being a successful applicant.


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[peter2013]

OD/MD, if you didn't have a trail showing your bankruptcy and optometry record I would think that you were a troll paid by some ophthalmology group. You're doing an amazing job motivating ophthalmologists to keep spending time and money fighting for patient safety. Keep it up!

 

[long]

OD/MD student ignores/avoids every question and comment about himself and his position that he can't defend, and only responds with the same drivel he has repeated ad nauseam, or with "I'm a tough guy and I'll fight you" statements. Just ignore him.


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[taco1]

I'm pretty sure I could handle you.

Every post of yours continues to show a lack of intelligence. Ophthalmology is a small community. Your chances to begin with coming from a Caribbean school were slim but you are driving it to pretty much 0 at this point. PS keep away from the threats don't think you can do PRK with a broken hip

 

[awftho]

I"m probably more trained in on PRK than you are right now and a better candidate than you ever were for an ophthalmology residency. Think twice before you speak once.

I'm pretty sure I read a section of your bankruptcy record that cited your inability to handle the patient volume leading to you being essentially fired...

 

[OD/ MD student]

Every post of yours continues to show a lack of intelligence. Ophthalmology is a small community. Your chances to begin with coming from a Caribbean school were slim but you are driving it to pretty much 0 at this point. PS keep away from the threats don't think you can do PRK with a broken hip

My hips not broken. My hip never has been broken. My personal health , even if this was true, has no bearing on this debate. I can do PRK quite fine thank you. I have a whole slew of PRK surgeries scheduled between intersession many on my medical school classmates. Thanks for looking out for me though. I really appreciate your concern.

 

[OD/ MD student]

OD/MD student ignores/avoids every question and comment about himself and his position that he can't defend, and only responds with the same drivel he has repeated ad nauseam, or with "I'm a tough guy and I'll fight you" statements. Just ignore him.


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Don't think I ever said I'm a tough guy, and don't think I ever said I want to fight anyone. That's your words not mine. But, if you'd like to sit down and talk about it or debate it in public I'm up for either of those situations. Last time Ophthalmology tried to debate optometry in public was in Kentucky before the laser law passed and they looked embarassingly unprepared nor able to debate on a major television station. But, if you think you can do better, more power to you. Let me know when. Here's ophthalmology getting their butts handed to them. Optometry Bill | Kentucky Tonight

 

[OD/ MD student]

Well good, I'm not glad we have YOUR definition of "unprofessional." My definition of unprofessional is your behavior on here.

Thank you for your time and have a lovely day...

(see, I can use smileys too!)

Your definition of unprofessional is anyone who disagrees with you... nice try though.

 

[Slide]

Every post of yours continues to show a lack of intelligence. Ophthalmology is a small community. Your chances to begin with coming from a Caribbean school were slim but you are driving it to pretty much 0 at this point. PS keep away from the threats don't think you can do PRK with a broken hip

OD/med student doesn't even realize that some of the posters here have major say of who gets interviews and gets ranked. He's also not helping his case by having all of his issues in public with a simple Google search.

 

[DrZeke]

OD/med student doesn't even realize that some of the posters here have major say of who gets interviews and gets ranked. He's also not helping his case by having all of his issues in public with a simple Google search.

Exactly


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[OD/ MD student]

OD/med student doesn't even realize that some of the posters here have major say of who gets interviews and gets ranked. He's also not helping his case by having all of his issues in public with a simple Google search.

Nothing I've said is the un-truth. Nothing I've said is impolite. Coming into an ophthalmology residency with advanced surgical skills and having many many procedures under my belt should, in a perfect world void of egos, be exactly what one would want in an ophthalmology residency. We all seek knowledge and push ourselves to be the most comprehensive eye doctor possible to serve our patients. Advanced skills, and learning those advanced skills as a Doctor of Optometry should not be considered detrimental in a candidate applying for an ophthalmology residency. To disacknowledge, the surgical eye skills I've acquired over the years reeks of pettiness. The reality is whether you chose to acknowledge it or not many of us as OD's have these surgical skills from our experience. I wouldn't say that hurts anyone's chances for a residency. My step score will speak for itself.

 

[awftho]

Nothing I've said is the un-truth. Nothing I've said is impolite. Coming into an ophthalmology residency with advanced surgical skills and having many many procedures under my belt should, in a perfect world void of egos, be exactly what one would want in an ophthalmology residency. We all seek knowledge and push ourselves to be the most comprehensive eye doctor possible to serve our patients. Advanced skills, and learning those advanced skills as a Doctor of Optometry should not be considered detrimental in a candidate applying for an ophthalmology residency. To disacknowledge, the surgical eye skills I've acquired over the years reeks of pettiness. The reality is whether you chose to acknowledge it or not many of us as OD's have these surgical skills from our experience. I wouldn't say that hurts anyone's chances for a residency. My step score will speak for itself.

More than anything I just feel bad for how absolutely out of touch you are with the reality of what it takes to match into Ophtho.