Official pulmonary critical care 2016-2017 thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I don't think it matters because a PDs opinion is similar to other faculty/interviewers. At least is most programs, which is why most programs have >3 interviewers.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Does it matter whether an applicant interviews with the PD? A couple places I have been to don't seem to have the PD meet with everyone. Kinda hard to not think that the PD selects those he/she is most interested in meeting.

Not to push any anxiety buttons but I don't like it either. Especially since applicant pool is small relatively speaking. Not meeting with every candidate seems off to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Not to push any anxiety buttons but I don't like it either. Especially since applicant pool is small relatively speaking. Not meeting with every candidate seems off to me.
Yes I figured as much. To be fair, at one place there were something like 15 applicants that day and we each only had 2-3 interviews, so the PD ended up meeting probably 25-30% of us. Hopefully an interview with the section chief carries some weight then.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yes I figured as much. To be fair, at one place there were something like 15 applicants that day and we each only had 2-3 interviews, so the PD ended up meeting probably 25-30% of us. Hopefully an interview with the section chief carries some weight then.

That would be the one person that seems reasonable to trade off for. If that makes you feel much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
How does Montefiore vs NSLIJ vs Mt Sinai St Lukes/Roosevelt/BI (which is now one program) compare in terms of clinical training and name recognition? Thoughts from anyone are appreciated, including current applicants. Thanks!
 
From what I understand, finalizing the rank list happens between the division director and the program director. If you interviewed with either then you have your input heard. Very few places I interviewed at had the PD and chief meet with all applicants. It was either/or.
 
I wanted to hear some thoughts on programs that have mandatory 18 month research. For folks who enjoy research, but want to ultimately be more a clinical educator in an academic center, is this a bad way to train? Is 18 months of clinical training enough to be a competent clinician (especially at large academic centers where patients are likely sicker)? I've heard program directors say they feel 18 months is more than enough for clinical competence and having 50% of the fellowship away from clinical training doesn't affect it at all - it's been kind of hard to wrap my head around that!
 
Last edited:
I wanted to hear some thoughts on programs that have mandatory 18 month research. For folks who enjoy research, but want to ultimately be more a clinical educator in an academic center, is this a bad way to train? Is 18 months of clinical training enough to be a competent clinician (especially at large academic centers where patients are likely sicker)?

To be a clinician educator, I believe procedures and clinical knowledge would benefit more than doing 18 months of research. Now this is dependent on how the institution allocates you during those months. Are you going to be sitting in a lab doing bench research, or will you be working on clinical research that will allow time for electives in say ultrasound or other electives to buff up clinical expertise?

In the end, my opinion of a place "mandating" 18 months of research would be that they are trying to appease to the applicant who wants to continue on this path of research. Not speaking from any experience as I too am an applicant.
 
To be a clinician educator, I believe procedures and clinical knowledge would benefit more than doing 18 months of research. Now this is dependent on how the institution allocates you during those months. Are you going to be sitting in a lab doing bench research, or will you be working on clinical research that will allow time for electives in say ultrasound or other electives to buff up clinical expertise?

In the end, my opinion of a place "mandating" 18 months of research would be that they are trying to appease to the applicant who wants to continue on this path of research. Not speaking from any experience as I too am an applicant.
Seems like these places want you to be a pure researcher during the 18 months. Elective time for ultrasound or a subspeciality clinic exposure seems integrated into the 18 months of clinical training.

36 months of clinical training will likely trump 18/18 of clinical/research (no matter how academic the program is for the latter), just wondering how big a difference it would make.
 
Last edited:
I don't see the point of going to a place that offers 18 mo of protected research if you know you are not interested in research. It detracts from the clinical exposure and procedural volume. The point of 18 mo of protected research is to produce a physician-scientist. It's a waste of time to commit that much time to research if there is no true interest. 12 mo of research time is enough if your interests are to become a clinical educator who wants to practice in an academic setting.

But does it make THAT big of a difference? For the applicant, probably not (aside from wasting 18 mo doing research if you are not interested).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Seems like these places want you to be a pure researcher during the 18 months. Elective time for ultrasound or a subspeciality clinic exposure seems integrated into the 18 months of clinical training.

36 months of clinical training will likely trump 18/18 of clinical/research (no matter how academic the program is for the latter), just wondering how big a difference it would make.

I did 18 protected months of research. Ultimately decided I didn't like the research environment for reasons mostly not related to research itself. I was fine clinically. I walked right into a busy clinical practice and did fine. Though I tend to agree with some of the others in that IF you are really not interested in research, you shouldn't do all that research.

The REAL question with those positions offering 18 months of research is . . . are the 18 months of research enough to get you going as a researcher, if that is your interest. Sadly this is likely a big "no" at most institutions. You need to reasonably expect to try and arrange for an additional 4th year of fellowship that will protect your research time and allow for you to get enough data to write a competitive K award application.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The REAL question with those positions offering 18 months of research is . . . are the 18 months of research enough to get you going as a researcher, if that is your interest. Sadly this is likely a big "no" at most institutions. You need to reasonably expect to try and arrange for an additional 4th year of fellowship that will protect your research time and allow for you to get enough data to write a competitive K award application.
I had 3 years of protected research time (70% one year, 90% the other 2) and it wasn't enough to get to to K-land. It's almost universally true now that, if you want to be a true "physician-scientist", you're going to be doing 1-2 years (at least) as a super-fellow/instructor in order to get there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I had 3 years of protected research time (70% one year, 90% the other 2) and it wasn't enough to get to to K-land. It's almost universally true now that, if you want to be a true "physician-scientist", you're going to be doing 1-2 years (at least) as a super-fellow/instructor in order to get there.

So cost of education is going up, number and size of grants is going down, duration of training is going up, pressure to publish is going up, salary is going down.....

Remind me why I'm doing this again??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So cost of education is going up, number and size of grants is going down, duration of training is going up, pressure to publish is going up, salary is going down.....

Remind me why I'm doing this again??
Don't look at me man...I got out. Regretted it for a bit but it's been a couple of years since I looked back. Quite happy with my choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Don't look at me man...I got out. Regretted it for a bit but it's been a couple of years since I looked back. Quite happy with my choice.

Yea, I'm EM->CCM looking at doing academics, but, the more I look at the numbers, the harder it is to justify.
 
Yea, I'm EM->CCM looking at doing academics, but, the more I look at the numbers, the harder it is to justify.

I'm still in academics, but FT clinical in a satellite site that pays 25% more than at the mother ship.

I still get to teach and have my hand in clinical research (1 IIT and PI on 2 industry sponsored trials).

Best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned. I get paid less than my PP colleagues, but I don't have the production pressures they do either
 
Don't look at me man...I got out. Regretted it for a bit but it's been a couple of years since I looked back. Quite happy with my choice.

Were you trying to do basic science research during fellowship/post-doc, gutonc?
 
Any input on : SUNY upstate vs SUNY downstate vs Cook County ?
I interviewed at downstate, was disappointed in every single way ! Interview process took an hour and a half that's it. How am I supposed to decide my future based on this ? Typical NYC program
 
I interviewed at downstate, was disappointed in every single way ! Interview process took an hour and a half that's it. How am I supposed to decide my future based on this ? Typical NYC program
downstate was pretty... bland. No intro powerpoint to show case the program, the division offices are within the hospital, only got a chance to meet 1 fellow, no breakfast or lunch or conference, I hightailed myself outta there
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I would appreciate any thoughts or input on Colorado/National Jewish vs Cleveland Clinic. Can't decide on a number one.

Colorado is a top 5 program. Cleveland Clinic is....not. I'm not sure what you're asking here. What are your interests and what r u looking for in a program?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
Can anyone help in ranking, looking for a good clinical program, research not a big priority but want to do ip or lung transplant later on

UT southwestern dallas
Oklahoma University
Buffalo suny
SUNY Upstate
Univ of Kentucky Lexington
 
Can anyone help in ranking, looking for a good clinical program, research not a big priority but want to do ip or lung transplant later on

UT southwestern dallas
Oklahoma University
Buffalo suny
SUNY Upstate
Univ of Kentucky Lexington
UT-UK then the rest depending on weather preferences.
Just my humble opinion
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Can anyone help in ranking, looking for a good clinical program, research not a big priority but want to do ip or lung transplant later on

UT southwestern dallas
Oklahoma University
Buffalo suny
SUNY Upstate
Univ of Kentucky Lexington

I agree with IM3003. UTSW is strong, as we would expect. UK surprised me as a really clinical strong program, particularly in CCM, that flies under the radar it seems.
 
Any thoughts on University of Louisville and UT Memphis in comparison to UK Lexington? I'm focused on being in a clinically strong program and I have an interest in IP. UT seemed to have strong critical care but they seemed somewhat lacking on the pulm side of things with some of those limitations due to lack of technology. Louisville seems to have not filled a couple years ago and I didn't know what to make of that. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
Rank list certified, "You da best" #1 email sent.

Time to attempt ignoring Dec 7 until Dec 7 and fielding any awkward phone calls that I might be fortunate enough to receive.
 
Any thoughts on University of Louisville and UT Memphis in comparison to UK Lexington? I'm focused on being in a clinically strong program and I have an interest in IP. UT seemed to have strong critical care but they seemed somewhat lacking on the pulm side of things with some of those limitations due to lack of technology. Louisville seems to have not filled a couple years ago and I didn't know what to make of that. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I can't speak to UT Memphis, as I didn't interview there. Louisville was a decent program. No IP fellowship but they do have an IP attending, similar to UK. ICU in my opinion was a little weird in that the university one was small (like 10-12 beds), at least in comparison to UK's (45+ beds and growing). They do have some good IPF exposure as well as pulmonary hypertension. Seemed almost pseudo-academic in a sense with the bigger exposure being at Jewish. Between UofL and UK, I felt UK was stronger academically and clinically (I was suprised by this). While I don't know much about the UT Memphis program, Lexington and Memphis are very different cities, so I would consider that as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hi guys
I was hoping to get some help with ranking these programs, I'm primarily looking for good training and reputation, not so much for location.

Thomas Jefferson
Tufts
LIJ
Cleveland clinic
U of Cincinnati
U of Rochester
U of Minnesota
Brown
Rush
St. Louis school of med
Kansas University


Thank you.
 
when do programs have to finalize their rank lists?
 
Anyone got prematch from Mt. Saini CCM?
 
I believe that when is when programs have to finalize how many positions are being given through the match. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Wait, they're allowed to do that? So they can advertise multiple positions all season long, then just fill with internal candidates at the last minute?
 
Wait, they're allowed to do that? So they can advertise multiple positions all season long, then just fill with internal candidates at the last minute?

No. The all-in rule still applies.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
Yeah, but can't they decide how many spots they will offer in total? I've interviewed at a program or two that stated they have X or X+1 positions this year. I agree this was this exception, most programs had a set number.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Yeah, but can't they decide how many spots they will offer in total? I've interviewed at a program or two that stated they have X or X+1 positions this year. I agree this was this exception, most programs had a set number.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Yes they have until today to decide how many spots they're going to have but they can't have spots outside the match in addition
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So as the application season comes to an end, I am still conflicted about a few programs. I have tried to gather information from as many sources as possible and was wondering if the folks here would like to chime in. I guess if nothing else it will give this thread some life until match day.

I am hoping to go into academia so research and 4th year are very important to me along with good clinical training. Location is not a big issue but my significant other would prefer to be in a city for his job. So what are your thoughts about Columbia, NYU, Emory and Yale?

Also would there be an interest in anonymous program reviews for future applicants?
 
In terms of getting "positive responses" from programs that people may have sent correspondences to to exhibit their "priority or #1".

Has any one heard back or gotten those positive responses?

As far as program reviews, for paranoia sake, will post after rank cert.
 
I received an unsolicited email from PD of a program I was very interested in and subsequently had a good chat via email. Non commital response though as I suspect they are not allowed or don't want to outright say "you are ranked to match." I feel as others have already expressed -- don't read too much into correspondance (or lack thereof).
 
In terms of getting "positive responses" from programs that people may have sent correspondences to to exhibit their "priority or #1".

Has any one heard back or gotten those positive responses?

As far as program reviews, for paranoia sake, will post after rank cert.
Had an email exchange with a faculty member with whom I interviewed but radio silence from the PD.
 
Whats everyone's take on asking your faculty to call or email your top program.

Is it harmful if multiple attendings email?
 
Any comments on sunny down state vs Nj Rutgers.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Top