Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[jz1991]

touche, good sir.

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[gutonc]

Internal medicine.

I am also curious about matching and interviews. If I get an interview does that me I am automatically ranked by the school?

No

So if I get one interview and they rank me last like 50/50 and I rank them 1/1 then I am going there?

Also no.

I continue to be fascinated by how little people understand about the Match.

Here...go educate yourself on it...please.

 

[235009]

Hi, everyone!

I've been a silent lurker for a bit now on SDN and was hoping I could get some WAMC advice.

US citizen IMG -- med school from India
Step 1: 242
Step 2: 250
Honors in ENT during internship and otherwise fair grades (I don't know if that matters being an IMG)
Research: had a summer research fellowship, but unfortunately did not get a publication out of it -- am still working on submitting to other journals though; one oral presentation at a conference which won first place; One case report submitted.
I had written a book chapter for a peds hem-onc manual with one of my professors, but due to some weird politics in my univerity, they published it in-house. Hence, I didn't put in on my CV.
USCE: 2 months sub-I at Dartmouth
LoRs: 2 waived from US doctors which I believe are at least good if not strong, 2 strong waived letters from my med school and one unwaived chair letter
Extracurriculars: was student representative for several committees on campus including the medical education unit, etc; several community service/volunteering projects.
Worked on/off as an on-call medical officer

I've applied to 100+ programs. Some top-tier (I guess out of naive wishful thinking), some community programs, some state programs. Unfortunately, my CK came out late so I had to send applications in waves. It is late now, but I'm wondering if I should apply to more as I've received only 2 invites so far. Some of my colleagues have applied to 180.

Does being a US-IMG not from a Caribbean school matter? Does it decrease my chances of matching?
I'm freaking out a little that I've received only 2 invites and it's already quite late. I know that applying a week to two weeks late has decreased my chances of being offered an interview quite a bit, but is there still a possibility of invites now? Should I apply to more programs?

Would appreciate any honest advice from you all and thank you in advance.

Depends on how many community programs you've applied to. The fact that the 100 includes top tier programs tells me you didn't apply to enough. I would recommend applying to more community programs with the understanding that it's pretty late and may be flushing money down the drain. That said you need to do all you can to match.


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[jz1991]

Depends on how many community programs you've applied to. The fact that the 100 includes top tier programs tells me you didn't apply to enough. I would recommend applying to more community programs with the understanding that it's pretty late and may be flushing money down the drain. That said you need to do all you can to match.

Thank you for the advice. I've applied to another 26 -- mostly community programs.

 

[clk88]

Editing!

 

[MrSunny1]

Who can give me advice???

Int med application

I've had a fairly rough go during medical school lots of medical issues myself anyways. My grades aren't excellent. I've got 1 fail(retake P in PSYCHIATRY!!), Conditional P in pediatrics, all Pass, and HP in neuro.

Outstanding honors in medicine SUB-I with excellent LOR. I've struggled with standardized exams since day 1, I can only complete about 2/3 of the exams in the allotted time thus my poor scores(fail and CP, board exams). Other than that all glowing clerkship reviews even in pscyh/peds, excellent LORs, 2 publications, lots of service/community work.

Step 1 223
Step 2CK 225 bummer RECEIVED TODAY. Average is 242 so I'm way below on step 2 and almost average on step 1.

Question do I release this 225 CK(released) now or just wait and see who will give me interviews based on my step 1? I've gotten 1 interview so far and 2 rejections without step 2ck release.

 

[gutonc]

Who can give me advice???

You passed the test. Release the score.

 

[MrSunny1]

Thank you I did go ahead and release it on the 10/19 and as a pleasant surprise, I realized that I had not transmitted my step 1 scores.... So my application was sent to all the schools with no board scores at all. I've only got one interview at this point what should I do? start calling schools individually? Talk to my dean? I am applying to primary care tracts in internal medicine for which I applied to almost all of the programs. I'm starting to worry that these programs may be more competitive than a categorical community hospital? There are only a few spots at each hospital probably less than 5.

You passed the test. Release the score.

 

[gutonc]

Thank you I did go ahead and release it on the 10/19 and as a pleasant surprise, I realized that I had not transmitted my step 1 scores.... So my application was sent to all the schools with no board scores at all. I've only got one interview at this point what should I do? start calling schools individually? Talk to my dean? I am applying to primary care tracts in internal medicine for which I applied to almost all of the programs. I'm starting to worry that these programs may be more competitive than a categorical community hospital? There are only a few spots at each hospital probably less than 5.

Track dammit. The word is track.

If you've been rejected from any of these places, go ahead and send an email saying you didn't realize your scores hadn't been released and now they have.

If you haven't heard anything at all, that's because they literally couldn't see your app (if they filter on having at least one Step score available, like pretty much all programs do), or they weren't going to bother looking at it without the one universal comparator that all applicants have. Now that you have released them (better late than never), they'll see your app and maybe offer you an interview. You definitely put yourself in a tough spot here but you'll probably be OK. Add a few more programs if that makes you feel better.

 

[prayerna]

Hey all,

Having a tough time gauging what's going on given my stats and app thus far.

School: top 25
Step 1: high 240's
Step 2: taking in Oct
MS3: H in IM, Neuro, elective; school doesn't have P and received good comments in everything else. Probably 2nd or 3rd quartile. No AOA. Was heavily involved in med school govt for first 2 years.
Research: 1 poster presentation at time of app, now have 1 case report published and one abstract that should be submitted next week.

Mainly looking to stay west, but was hoping for some good interviews.
Reach schools: MGH, JHU, UCSF, Brigham, Duke, UPenn, Columbia, UW, Stanford
Possibly attainable: UT SW, Vanderbilt, Cleveland Clinic, Mcgaw Northwestern, Cornell, Emory, UCLA, UCSD
Safety: Mostly S CA programs.

 

[gutonc]

Where are you in interviews so far?

Your stats aren't anything special, and I don't see anything on your app that would get you offers from most of your reach and possibly attainable programs. You've got a Step 1 score that gets you through most filters but doesn't blow minds, Honors in your IM clerkship (what about your Sub-I?) and that's pretty much it. Your app is otherwise quite average. Not bad or anything, but nothing to write home about.

You'll easily match if you get to 10 interviews, but you're not getting there from the list of programs you gave us.

Also, with a few exceptions, almost none of the programs in SoCal can be considered "safeties". For reasons I will never understand, people are dying to train/live there (despite the crap pay, high COL and bad MedMal climate). So plenty of people with stats that will easily get them to most of the programs on your list, will also be applying to most of those SoCal programs.

 

[disorder]

Hey all,

Having a tough time gauging what's going on given my stats and app thus far.

School: top 25
Step 1: high 240's
Step 2: taking in Oct
MS3: H in IM, Neuro, elective; school doesn't have P and received good comments in everything else. Probably 2nd or 3rd quartile. No AOA. Was heavily involved in med school govt for first 2 years.
Research: 1 poster presentation at time of app, now have 1 case report published and one abstract that should be submitted next week.

Mainly looking to stay west, but was hoping for some good interviews.
Reach schools: MGH, JHU, UCSF, Brigham, Duke, UPenn, Columbia, UW, Stanford
Possibly attainable: UT SW, Vanderbilt, Cleveland Clinic, Mcgaw Northwestern, Cornell, Emory, UCLA, UCSD
Safety: Mostly S CA programs.

Your assessment seems reasonable. You'll be fine.

 

[Thegirlfromfenweh]

Hey ya'll!
Just a 3rd year (who loves cardio ) who is sitting around waiting for babies to pop out (on L&D for OB rotation) with nothing better to do than try to gauge my application for what is currently my dream list, and what I can do to improve it. I feel there's not a lot to go off of, but fire away

AMG - Low to Mid Tier NE

Step 1- 242
Step 2- not taken
Grades: ~ top quartile
Clinical Grades: pending, but so far have had almost all highest grades on preceptor evaluations
AOA: elections during senior year
Research: 3 poster presentations (one of which was a QI), 1 conference presentation; plan on finishing 2-3 case reports before next year
Extracurriculars: leadership position in 3 school clubs, 200+ hours of free clinic, teaching, coaching, medical staff at community and sporting events
LOR: Plan on getting letters from 2+ IM physicians

Programs Being Considered
1. Southeast: UNC (#1), Wake, Duke, UVA
2. Northeast: Penn, Jeff, Temple, Einstein PA,
NYP, NYU, Sinai, Einstein NY, LIJ, SUNY Brooklyn, SUNY Stony Brook
Boston Med, Beth Deacon, Tufts, UMass
JHU, UMD

 

[pyrenees]

Med school rank: low/mid tier state schools (US ranking 40-50)
USMLE Step 1: 251
USMLE Step 2: 275
USMLE CS: pending
Class rank: top quartile
AOA: yes
Honors: H in all
Research: 3 pubs (1 first author), 2 posters
LOR: solid, not necessarily strong

Hi all! First i want to say thank you to all of you who contribute on here- i have been viewing this site for 5 years.
So I applied broadly to ~30 programs and I was pleasantly surprised to get so many great interviews. That being said, based on my recent interviews I seem to be the only person at any of these places who isn't from a top 10 medical school and now I'm worried I'm probably low on the rank list for most of these places. I'm okay with going on ~15 interviews. No regional preference.

1. Is it common to drop low on your list with all of these competitive places (especially coming from a low/mid tier school)?
2. Should I cancel some of these really high institutions and schedule some more of the midtier programs?
3. WTF is up with interviews?! They seem so pointless. I'm kind/polite/conversational, but so is every single person I've met on the trail. I can't imagine how these superficial 15 minute convos make a huge difference in our rank. (sorry- needed to rant).

East: Columbia, BWH, BID, Penn, JHH, Vandy, UNC (not scheduled), Tufts (not scheduled)
Midwest: Uchicago, NW, Michigan, Wisconsin, WashU, Rush (not scheduled), Ohio state (not scheduled)
West: UCLA, UColorado, Stanford, UCSD (not scheduled)
+home institution

 

[IM88]

Med school rank: low/mid tier state schools (US ranking 40-50)
USMLE Step 1: 251
USMLE Step 2: 275
USMLE CS: pending
Class rank: top quartile
AOA: yes
Honors: H in all
Research: 3 pubs (1 first author), 2 posters
LOR: solid, not necessarily strong

Hi all! First i want to say thankful to all of your who contribute to this - i have been viewing this site for 5 years.
So I applied broadly to ~30 programs and I was pleasantly surprised to get so many great interviews. That being said, based on my recent interviews I seem to be the only person at any of these places who isn't from a top 10 medical school and now I'm worried I'm probably low on the rank list for most of these places. I'm okay with going on ~15 interviews. No regional preference.

1. Is it common to drop low on your list with all of these competitive places (especially coming from a low/mid tier school)?
2. Should I cancel some of these really high institutions and schedule some more of the midtier programs?
3. WTF is up with interviews?! They seem so pointless. I'm kind/polite/conversational, but so is every single person I've met on the trail. I can't imagine how these superficial 15 minute convos make a huge difference in our rank. (sorry- needed to rant).

East: Columbia, BWH, BID, Penn, JHH, Vandy, UNC (not scheduled), Tufts (not scheduled)
Midwest: Uchicago, NW, Michigan, Wisconsin, WashU, Rush (not scheduled), Ohio state (not scheduled)
West: UCLA, UColorado, Stanford, UCSD (not scheduled)
+home institution

Based on simple probability, it is unlikely that all of these programs would have randomly selected you to interview - you can put your imposter syndrome to rest.
1) If you don't come across as totally incompetent at your interview, it's probably unlikely that you would drop below your top few, although it's hard to say for sure. Your odds are probably highest at programs where people from your school have previously matched.
2) Why would you cancel interviews at strong programs where you'd be willing to train? Going on a few extra interviews at top programs costs relatively little in the long run, with potentially large impact on your future career.
3) I don't have any direct insight into how interviews are incorporated into the final ranking process, but my impression is that as long as you're normal they don't make a ton of difference.

 

[W19]

@MeatTornado and @gutonc

3rd year low tier US MD student... step1 = 215-220

Should I apply only to community programs? I am planning to apply to 75+ programs

Red flag so far: probably rank in the 4th quartile in my class...

 

[MrSunny1]

Only 3 interviews so far. One at top choice and 2 at the other 2 are my bottom 2 choices. I still havent heard back from 18 schools out of 30. Is it normal to not receive a denial?

 

[235009]

@MeatTornado and @gutonc

3rd year low tier US MD student... step1 = 215-220

Should I apply only to community programs? I am planning to apply to 75+ programs

Red flag so far: probably rank in the 4th quartile in my class...

You don't need to apply to 75+, especially since you already realize that community programs are your best bet. I wouldn't discount low tier academic programs or academic programs in undesirable locations. You definitely still have a shot at those.

Only 3 interviews so far. One at top choice and 2 at the other 2 are my bottom 2 choices. I still havent heard back from 18 schools out of 30. Is it normal to not receive a denial?

Absolutely. It's the same story every step of this process.


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[W19]

You don't need to apply to 75+, especially since you already realize that community programs are your best bet. I wouldn't discount low tier academic programs or academic programs in undesirable locations. You definitely still have a shot at those.

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Thanks... I will apply to 50 programs (community and low tier academic and/or academic programs in undesirable locations). Will also add a few dream programs like Stony Brook etc...

 

[235009]

Thanks... I will apply to 50 programs (community and low tier academic and/or academic programs in undesirable locations). Will also add a few dream programs like Stony Brook etc...

Unless the program's recruitment has really improved that much since I was there for med school I would say you have a really good shot at matching there. In my initial reply I was actually thinking you're the kind of candidate stony brook tends to target, especially since they've been trying to attract more US MDs.


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[W19]

Unless the program's recruitment has really improved that much since I was there for med school I would say you have a really good shot at matching there. In my initial reply I was actually thinking you're the kind of candidate stony brook tends to target, especially since they've been trying to attract more US MDs.


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Why do you think they have a tough time recruiting US students?

 

[235009]

Why do you think they have a tough time recruiting US students?

Location
Location
Location


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[Helicase12]

third year DO student, 540 comlex, 225 usmle, what are my chances at university IM or at least community IM with fellowships, specifically pulm/cc? Thanks!

 

[acapnial]

third year DO student, 540 comlex, 225 usmle, what are my chances at university IM or at least community IM with fellowships, specifically pulm/cc? Thanks!

Better than you might think. I know people worse off than you who have had success with several uni programs. Still apply broadly and make sure to have a good base in community programs for back up. Apply to ~60 programs (avg im md student applies to ~30 and md x 2 is generally a safe bet for do).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ne-university-programs.1008132/#post-14106075

This is a reasonable but not perfect list of uni programs to target. It leaves some out and dont count on any love from upenn. Some of the tiers are kind of ridiculous too. But most of them do take dos on a regular basis.

 

[El Nino]

3rd year - I know I'm very earlier in the process but I'm just planning a couple of things out

Med school rank: Top 10
USMLE Step 1: low 230s
USMLE Step 2 CK/CS: I haven't taken yet, but should I take CK early?
Honors: Pre-clinicals at my school are pass/fail and so far I have not honored any of my rotations (especially medicine which was my first rotation :/ )
Research: (2) Poster presentations, (1) oral presentation at a national conference and (1) 1st author publication
LORs: I don't have any at the moment, but a couple of attendings have offered to write them for me
Extracurriculars: Outside of my research above, I've done a lot of with teaching and outreach which are my career interest
Career interest as now: Clinical educator at academic place

Reach schools: MGH, JHU, Brigham, UCSF, UCLA, UW, Stanford
Possibly attainable: Michigan, Oregon, Colorado, Community: AM, SCVMC, CPMC, Cedars
Recommendations?

I'm interested in an academic residency due to , I know based on numbers so far I'm not competitive for many (if not all) of these type of programs. I'm strongly considering an away rotation at 1-2 of these programs, because I believe it's easier for me to "sell" myself in person than on paper. I'm from the west coast

Advice appreciated

 

[obiwan]

3rd year - I know I'm very earlier in the process but I'm just planning a couple of things out

Med school rank: Top 10
USMLE Step 1: low 230s
USMLE Step 2 CK/CS: I haven't taken yet, but should I take CK early?
Honors: Pre-clinicals at my school are pass/fail and so far I have not honored any of my rotations (especially medicine which was my first rotation :/ )
Research: (2) Poster presentations, (1) oral presentation at a national conference and (1) 1st author publication
LORs: I don't have any at the moment, but a couple of attendings have offered to write them for me
Extracurriculars: Outside of my research above, I've done a lot of with teaching and outreach which are my career interest
Career interest as now: Clinical educator at academic place

Reach schools: MGH, JHU, Brigham, UCSF, UCLA, UW, Stanford
Possibly attainable: Michigan, Oregon, Colorado, Community: AM, SCVMC, CPMC, Cedars
Recommendations?

I'm interested in an academic residency due to , I know based on numbers so far I'm not competitive for many (if not all) of these type of programs. I'm strongly considering an away rotation at 1-2 of these programs, because I believe it's easier for me to "sell" myself in person than on paper. I'm from the west coast

Advice appreciated

There really isn't a reason why you would have to go to a community program based on your resume so far unless you really wanted to go to them. SDN sorta skews your perspective since it seems like everyone gets 270s with honors/junior AOA etc etc. Places like MGH and USCF may be a little harder to get an interview but there are plenty of great solid university programs with great clinical training that you definitely would be competitive for. I would probably try to take CK early and do well in addition to knocking out with your subI

 

[tantacles]

3rd year - I know I'm very earlier in the process but I'm just planning a couple of things out

Med school rank: Top 10
USMLE Step 1: low 230s
USMLE Step 2 CK/CS: I haven't taken yet, but should I take CK early?
Honors: Pre-clinicals at my school are pass/fail and so far I have not honored any of my rotations (especially medicine which was my first rotation :/ )
Research: (2) Poster presentations, (1) oral presentation at a national conference and (1) 1st author publication
LORs: I don't have any at the moment, but a couple of attendings have offered to write them for me
Extracurriculars: Outside of my research above, I've done a lot of with teaching and outreach which are my career interest
Career interest as now: Clinical educator at academic place

Reach schools: MGH, JHU, Brigham, UCSF, UCLA, UW, Stanford
Possibly attainable: Michigan, Oregon, Colorado, Community: AM, SCVMC, CPMC, Cedars
Recommendations?

I'm interested in an academic residency due to , I know based on numbers so far I'm not competitive for many (if not all) of these type of programs. I'm strongly considering an away rotation at 1-2 of these programs, because I believe it's easier for me to "sell" myself in person than on paper. I'm from the west coast

Advice appreciated

Here are some wonderful academic centers that would be delighted to interview a student from a top 10 school with a step I score in the 230's. Not sure how the clinical grades will shake out, but you'll have options.


Midwest:

Case Western University Hospitals
Indiana University
Rush Medical College
UIC
Cincinnati
Loyola

Northeast:

BU
Tufts
Brown
Jefferson
Temple
Georgetown

South:

UNC
Wake Forest
University of Florida

West:

USC
University of Utah
University of Arizona

There are many more. I would recommend that you expand your definition of "academic medical center" as there are so many places you can apply to that are very likely to interview you.

 

[W19]

@tantacles It would be nice if you can compile a list of good IM community programs for someone like myself attending a bottom 10 US MD school with 215-220 on step1

 

[Thegirlfromfenweh]

Hey ya'll!
Just a 3rd year (who loves cardio ) who is sitting around waiting for babies to pop out (on L&D for OB rotation) with nothing better to do than try to gauge my application for what is currently my dream list, and what I can do to improve it. I feel there's not a lot to go off of, but fire away

AMG - Low to Mid Tier NE

Step 1- 242
Step 2- not taken
Grades: ~ top quartile
Clinical Grades: pending, but so far have had almost all highest grades on preceptor evaluations
AOA: elections during senior year
Research: 3 poster presentations (one of which was a QI), 1 conference presentation; plan on finishing 2-3 case reports before next year
Extracurriculars: leadership position in 3 school clubs, 200+ hours of free clinic, teaching, coaching, medical staff at community and sporting events
LOR: Plan on getting letters from 2+ IM physicians

Programs Being Considered
1. Southeast: UNC (#1), Wake, Duke, UVA
2. Northeast: Penn, Jeff, Temple, Einstein PA,
NYP, NYU, Sinai, Einstein NY, LIJ, SUNY Brooklyn, SUNY Stony Brook
Boston Med, Beth Deacon, Tufts, UMass
JHU, UMD

Bump


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[tantacles]

@tantacles It would be nice if you can compile a list of good IM community programs for someone like myself attending a bottom 10 US MD school with 215-220 on step1

Sorry, but I just don't know of many good community programs because I didn't apply to many! Frankly, for community programs, fit is probably the most important factor. I was also at a bottom 10 USNWR school but had a higher Step 1 score, but frankly, most community programs (most, not all) will interview anyone from a US MD school without a rock bottom Step 1 score. If I were you, I would start regionally and consider e-mailing program directors/coordinators (to get in contact with residents) and looking at fellowship match lists (if you plan to do fellowship) to figure out what programs will fit you.

That being said, again, there are still many academic programs that will take someone from a USMD school with a 215-220 on Step 1, and you can quote me on that.

 

[darklabel]

@tantacles It would be nice if you can compile a list of good IM community programs for someone like myself attending a bottom 10 US MD school with 215-220 on step1

Hey at least you're not in the 210-215 range

 

[W19]

Hey at least you're not in the 210-215 range

We just go to get above average (>240) in step 2... Not sure how much that will help in my case since I am taking it at the end of October...

 

[Ophthoseidon]

Hey everybody, I'd appreciate everyones opinions on my chances and a list! I know it's only half way through third year but I hope it'll at least give me an idea. I have a huge interest in GI. If GI wasn't at the end of medicine I might consider other things, if that shapes program perspectives at all.

Med school rank: newer school
USMLE Step 1: low 240s
USMLE Step 2: taking in June
Class rank: I'm not positive but fairly certain I'm on the border of top quartile but probably in it
AOA: We'll see
Honors: P in peds, H in surgery, HP in medicine
Research: 2 national presentations in Emergency, 1 first author, 1 2nd author. Manuscripts being written, both will be published. Trying to get some GI research and maybe a case report
LOR: I'd say I'll have pretty good letters but the people are not well known and I haven't done aways or Sub-Is

I'd just like an idea of how unrealistic my program list might be. I based my "rankings" off of proximity, desirability of location, strong GI programs and matches, etc. I really don't have a preference for location as my main concern is GI fellowship but I do have some front runners. Here is my list. Let me know if certain programs should be omitted, added, etc. as I really don't have a lot to go off of. I'm willing to apply to more programs if it helps me out with getting some of the "better" academic programs. I kinda split it up into programs where I probably wont get interviews (reach), programs where I might (target), and places where I should (safe).


Reach (6)
UCSF, UCLA, Duke, Penn, Stanford, University of Washington

Target (15)
Chicago, Michigan, OSU, Colorado, Mayo, UAB, Virginia, UNC, OHSU, Beth Israel Deaconess, Vanderbilt, Baylor, UTSW, Boston, University Hospitals

Safe (12)
Rush, Jefferson, Indiana, Iowa, CCF, Henry Ford, Beaumont, UPMC, Cincinnati, Maryland, Temple

My top 5 would probably be (in nor particular order) UW, Colorado, Duke, Mayo, Michigan. I'm willing to do aways if it helps. Thanks everyone! You guys are awesome and I appreciate what you do. When the time comes and I know wtf I'm doing I'll pay it back lol

@tantacles @gutonc @MeatTornado

 

[235009]

Hey everybody, I'd appreciate everyones opinions on my chances and a list! I know it's only half way through third year but I hope it'll at least give me an idea. I have a huge interest in GI. If GI wasn't at the end of medicine I might consider other things, if that shapes program perspectives at all.

Med school rank: newer school
USMLE Step 1: low 240s
USMLE Step 2: taking in June
Class rank: I'm not positive but fairly certain I'm on the border of top quartile but probably in it
AOA: We'll see
Honors: P in peds, H in surgery, HP in medicine
Research: 2 national presentations in Emergency, 1 first author, 1 2nd author. Manuscripts being written, both will be published. Trying to get some GI research and maybe a case report
LOR: I'd say I'll have pretty good letters but the people are not well known and I haven't done aways or Sub-Is

I'd just like an idea of how unrealistic my program list might be. I based my "rankings" off of proximity, desirability of location, strong GI programs and matches, etc. I really don't have a preference for location as my main concern is GI fellowship but I do have some front runners. Here is my list. Let me know if certain programs should be omitted, added, etc. as I really don't have a lot to go off of. I'm willing to apply to more programs if it helps me out with getting some of the "better" academic programs. I kinda split it up into programs where I probably wont get interviews (reach), programs where I might (target), and places where I should (safe).


Reach (6)
UCSF, UCLA, Duke, Penn, Stanford, University of Washington

Target (15)
Chicago, Michigan, OSU, Colorado, Mayo, UAB, Virginia, UNC, OHSU, Beth Israel Deaconess, Vanderbilt, Baylor, UTSW, Boston, University Hospitals

Safe (12)
Rush, Jefferson, Indiana, Iowa, CCF, Henry Ford, Beaumont, UPMC, Cincinnati, Maryland, Temple

My top 5 would probably be (in nor particular order) UW, Colorado, Duke, Mayo, Michigan. I'm willing to do aways if it helps. Thanks everyone! You guys are awesome and I appreciate what you do. When the time comes and I know wtf I'm doing I'll pay it back lol

@tantacles @gutonc @MeatTornado

Your third year performance so far doesn't scream first quartile or AOA. I think some of the places you have in the target group are a bit of a reach like BID and Chicago.


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[mistermanager]

Pre-disclaimer: none of this 'rank'/'tier' stuff matters because you're clearly a smart person that will train at a good hospital

UPMC is not safe over places like OSU, Colorado, UAB, Case, or BU (or Mayo). And Beth Israel Deaconess is a true reach; it does not belong in the target cohort (neither do Michigan or Chicago). You can add a bunch of reaches that may be more attainable than your current roster, which could easily be 0/6 (UCSD, Northwestern, Wash U) and target programs SDN seems to like (e.g. Utah, Minnesota, Dartmouth, Wisconsin). But your list is already long so I would pick cities you want to go to as a first cut.

But be forewarned that the west coast is crazy competitive if you're not from there, especially California. Regional biases seem to matter a lot in the 'reach' category.

 

[gutonc]

Your third year performance so far doesn't scream first quartile or AOA. I think some of the places you have in the target group are a bit of a reach like BID and Chicago.

Agree. Unless something really phenomenal happens in the next 6-9 months (and no number of aways is going to count as phenomenal), your reach programs aren't happening at all, and at least half of your "target" programs (Chicago, Michigan, Colorado, UNC, OHSU, Beth Israel Deaconess, Vanderbilt, UTSW) are 50/50 at best. Pitt is not a safety.

Add places like Wisco, UMinn, UIC, Dartmouth, Rutgers, VCU, Wake, SLU, UAMS, Utah (I could go on, but we're already at a stupid number of places as it is).

 

[tantacles]

Hey everybody, I'd appreciate everyones opinions on my chances and a list! I know it's only half way through third year but I hope it'll at least give me an idea. I have a huge interest in GI. If GI wasn't at the end of medicine I might consider other things, if that shapes program perspectives at all.

Med school rank: newer school
USMLE Step 1: low 240s
USMLE Step 2: taking in June
Class rank: I'm not positive but fairly certain I'm on the border of top quartile but probably in it
AOA: We'll see
Honors: P in peds, H in surgery, HP in medicine
Research: 2 national presentations in Emergency, 1 first author, 1 2nd author. Manuscripts being written, both will be published. Trying to get some GI research and maybe a case report
LOR: I'd say I'll have pretty good letters but the people are not well known and I haven't done aways or Sub-Is

I'd just like an idea of how unrealistic my program list might be. I based my "rankings" off of proximity, desirability of location, strong GI programs and matches, etc. I really don't have a preference for location as my main concern is GI fellowship but I do have some front runners. Here is my list. Let me know if certain programs should be omitted, added, etc. as I really don't have a lot to go off of. I'm willing to apply to more programs if it helps me out with getting some of the "better" academic programs. I kinda split it up into programs where I probably wont get interviews (reach), programs where I might (target), and places where I should (safe).


Reach (6)
UCSF, UCLA, Duke, Penn, Stanford, University of Washington

Target (15)
Chicago, Michigan, OSU, Colorado, Mayo, UAB, Virginia, UNC, OHSU, Beth Israel Deaconess, Vanderbilt, Baylor, UTSW, Boston, University Hospitals

Safe (12)
Rush, Jefferson, Indiana, Iowa, CCF, Henry Ford, Beaumont, UPMC, Cincinnati, Maryland, Temple

My top 5 would probably be (in nor particular order) UW, Colorado, Duke, Mayo, Michigan. I'm willing to do aways if it helps. Thanks everyone! You guys are awesome and I appreciate what you do. When the time comes and I know wtf I'm doing I'll pay it back lol

@tantacles @gutonc @MeatTornado

What are your regional preferences? That might help us suggest more target programs that would actually fit you.

 

[gutonc]

What are your regional preferences? That might help us suggest more target programs that would actually fit you.

Based on the original list, the preference appears to be "Not NYC".

 

[Ophthoseidon]

Based on the original list, the preference appears to be "Not NYC".

Funny observation because it's true...

Thanks for the helpful list by the way. Many of those made my top 50 but got cut when I went down to 30. Maybe I should reconsider some. I don't mind shelling out an extra 10-20 per program if it's helpful.

What are your regional preferences? That might help us suggest more target programs that would actually fit you.

Like I said I have no regional preferences per se. Sure I'd love to live near Seattle, Denver, Philly, Boston or in nice states like NC, VA, CA, but I'd also rather attend a more well regarded program for training and fellowship purposes than going to community programs or places like Drexel which would probably be a fine facility to train at but not as well regarded as Wisconsin, Utah, etc.

Your third year performance so far doesn't scream first quartile or AOA. I think some of the places you have in the target group are a bit of a reach like BID and Chicago.

Thanks, I'll note this and take it into consideration down the line. Our school weighs each honors as equivalent between preclinical and clinical years so the honors I accumulated first two years offsets the mediocre 3rd year. That's the only reason I say I'm probably top quartile. No excuses I should have done better but it is what it is at this point. I should have been one of the 10-15% that honors these things.

Pre-disclaimer: none of this 'rank'/'tier' stuff matters because you're clearly a smart person that will train at a good hospital

UPMC is not safe over places like OSU, Colorado, UAB, Case, or BU (or Mayo). And Beth Israel Deaconess is a true reach; it does not belong in the target cohort (neither do Michigan or Chicago). You can add a bunch of reaches that may be more attainable than your current roster, which could easily be 0/6 (UCSD, Northwestern, Wash U) and target programs SDN seems to like (e.g. Utah, Minnesota, Dartmouth, Wisconsin). But your list is already long so I would pick cities you want to go to as a first cut.

But be forewarned that the west coast is crazy competitive if you're not from there, especially California. Regional biases seem to matter a lot in the 'reach' category.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice the only reason I had Michigan and Chicago in there were because of proximity and I know we send people there. I had most of the programs you listed in a top 50 list but I tried to trim them and eliminated some (Utah, Minnesota, Wisconsin, UCSD, Northwestern, and Wash U). So hard to cut down, but I want to be realistic. I don't mind spending the extra 10-20 bucks per application to add another 10 or whatever so maybe I'll do that if people think I have better chances at those places. Might eliminate a couple reaches too in favor of others.

 

[IMPD]

Like I said I have no regional preferences per se.
.

I give advice to a lot of medical students and I have found this to (nearly) universally not true. What is true, is that when you start the process, you want to be open minded. It just may be that moving to Texas is right for you and Houston actually is really beautiful in April. But chances are, you're not going to do that if you've never been there and have no connections there.

It comes as a surprise to many people that there are good-great liberal arts colleges everywhere. There are good-great smallish Jesuit colleges near most metro areas. There are solid IM residencies everywhere. 95% of my students end up with a geographic preference when they finally make their list.

This is because programs are actually of very similar quality and so, you end up with, where do you want to train? Students who come to me with lists of 50+ programs just haven't either really thought about that, or are reluctant to close any doors because they have some belief that there really *are* superior programs out there that will make their life magically better. There are not. for the 1-2% of applicants that need specific training, yes, they should find and go to those programs. This is a not common situation. (Desiring a GI fellowship, or a cards fellowship does not make you unusual).

At the very very top tier of programs, you will see geographic diversity, but not really school diversity. So, puruse UTSW or MGH resident lists. Kids from all over, but usually a limited range of pedigreed medical schools. These are not normal applicants.

(BTW, I just looked at UTSW PGY1s. ~20/55 are from Texas even there. I would guess MGH has a similar ratio). Geography is real and never to be underestimated. Use it.

 

[IMPD]

And what I wrote above is not meant to make people feel their list should be a locavore (~200 miles from where you live) type list. I applied to one west coast program (OHSU) because best friends lived there. Went and interviewed, loved it, ranked it #1, didn't match. Was very happy with my #2 program, 60 miles from home.

Take a flyer on 2-3 programs in places you'd like to see. Just don't think that it's reasonable to interview at 35+ programs for IM. It's not.

 

[dorster]

.

 

[235009]

I'm a 3rd year DO student and looking at chances of matching into an ACGME IM program in the Northeast (NY, NJ, CT, MA, ME, NH). Not sure if i'll end up wanting to sub-specialize but want to keep my options open so i'd like to apply to programs with IM fellowships rather than community programs. Appreciate any feedback or suggestions on improving my chances! Thanks

USMLE Step 1: high 230s
COMLEX Level 1: 680
Class rank: Top 10%
Grades: As and Bs in pre-clinical years, all A's so far in 3rd year rotations (my school doesn't do honors)
Research: minimal, only in undergrad and no publications

Keep up the good work. Get comfortable with the limitations you'll face as a DO.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[dfib slim]

I'm a 3rd year DO student and looking at chances of matching into an ACGME IM program in the Northeast (NY, NJ, CT, MA, ME, NH). Not sure if i'll end up wanting to sub-specialize but want to keep my options open so i'd like to apply to programs with IM fellowships rather than community programs. Appreciate any feedback or suggestions on improving my chances! Thanks

USMLE Step 1: high 230s
COMLEX Level 1: 680
Class rank: Top 10%
Grades: As and Bs in pre-clinical years, all A's so far in 3rd year rotations (my school doesn't do honors)
Research: minimal, only in undergrad and no publications

Be sure to take CK in time for ERAS and try to rotate through a program to get a solid LOR. Apply broadly.

 

[MelMcT2009]

.

 

[acapnial]

Med school: DO school

USMLE Step 1: 257

COMLEX 1: 826

Step 2 Pending

Class rank: 1st or 2nd in the class

Honors: we grade on a 0-100 scale, but so far have 96+ in everything (IM, FM, Peds, Surgery)

Research: 1 poster presented at multiple places (paper will be submitted for pub this month), currently working on two case reports that will be turned into a poster and submitted for publication as well


1. I've done my research on all of the Texas programs and will be applying to all (except prob UTSW, unless I feel like throwing away money). I was hoping someone can recommend some programs in boardering states that I should apply to as well

2. How many programs should I aim to apply to?

3. Do I need to take step 2 early? I was initially planning on July (it's the earliest we can take it at our school), but someone mentioned that I could be doing an away rotation at that time. Others have said that with a good step 1, I can hurt myself by doing poorly on step 2.

4. Away rotations- yes or no? I'm reading a lot of mixed opinions on this one. Not sure if I should do them or not? I was thinking at least one to get a LOR?

Thanks in advance

I'll leave questions 1 and 3 to more knowledgeable people. 2) Even though you're about as strong as an osteopathic applicant can get you should still throw out 60+ apps. Some places will immediately love you and try their damndest to recruit you, but other places will either not even sniff you or will place you in the top of the second class citizen pile. If you apply to ~30 places and 25 of them fall in the latter group then you're in trouble. And for 4) you don't really have to, but it's not a bad idea to do one. I had one program openly doubt whether I had received adequate education in a structured environment with residents, but they seemed satisfied after I described my away subI experience (which was done too late to make it on my official transcript that was sent with ERAS). But every place that has invited me didn't know I did one and all but two didn't ask, so it's probably not necessary.

 

[dfib slim]

Med school: DO school

USMLE Step 1: 257

COMLEX 1: 826

Step 2 Pending

Class rank: 1st or 2nd in the class

Honors: we grade on a 0-100 scale, but so far have 96+ in everything (IM, FM, Peds, Surgery)

Research: 1 poster presented at multiple places (paper will be submitted for pub this month), currently working on two case reports that will be turned into a poster and submitted for publication as well


1. I've done my research on all of the Texas programs and will be applying to all (except prob UTSW, unless I feel like throwing away money). I was hoping someone can recommend some programs in boardering states that I should apply to as well

2. How many programs should I aim to apply to?

3. Do I need to take step 2 early? I was initially planning on July (it's the earliest we can take it at our school), but someone mentioned that I could be doing an away rotation at that time. Others have said that with a good step 1, I can hurt myself by doing poorly on step 2.

4. Away rotations- yes or no? I'm reading a lot of mixed opinions on this one. Not sure if I should do them or not? I was thinking at least one to get a LOR?

Thanks in advance

1. Might as well apply to a few reaches including UTSW. Don't limit yourself geographically. Some programs to apply to in nearby states include UNM, AZ in Tucson, Colorado, UF Gainesville.

2. Apply to around 50 including a mix of reach and community back up.

3. Some programs require both Step 1 and CK, some will wonder why you took one and not the other. Unless your Step 1 was a fluke you shouldn't have a problem with CK. Take it so the score will be ready when you submit ERAS.

4. If you have a top program in mind do a practice away rotation before rotating there. Otherwise you can do one to get a solid LOR. I didn't and wonder if it would have made a difference.

 

[MelMcT2009]

Excellent! Thank you both for your input!

I'll leave questions 1 and 3 to more knowledgeable people. 2) Even though you're about as strong as an osteopathic applicant can get you should still throw out 60+ apps. Some places will immediately love you and try their damndest to recruit you, but other places will either not even sniff you or will place you in the top of the second class citizen pile. If you apply to ~30 places and 25 of them fall in the latter group then you're in trouble. And for 4) you don't really have to, but it's not a bad idea to do one. I had one program openly doubt whether I had received adequate education in a structured environment with residents, but they seemed satisfied after I described my away subI experience (which was done too late to make it on my official transcript that was sent with ERAS). But every place that has invited me didn't know I did one and all but two didn't ask, so it's probably not necessary.

1. Might as well apply to a few reaches including UTSW. Don't limit yourself geographically. Some programs to apply to in nearby states include UNM, AZ in Tucson, Colorado, UF Gainesville.

2. Apply to around 50 including a mix of reach and community back up.

3. Some programs require both Step 1 and CK, some will wonder why you took one and not the other. Unless your Step 1 was a fluke you shouldn't have a problem with CK. Take it so the score will be ready when you submit ERAS.

4. If you have a top program in mind do a practice away rotation before rotating there. Otherwise you can do one to get a solid LOR. I didn't and wonder if it would have made a difference.

 

[Harpsx]

Redo

 

[ElixirofLife]

Hello! overly ambitious 3rd year trying to plan ahead:

School: Top 10
Step 1: 247
Preclinical: P/F, no class ranking
Clinical: currently H in all rotations (including IM)
Research: All clinical research: oral presentation at the largest international conference in the field, 2nd author pub in a decent journal. Working on another project now, should have another pub by application season next year
ECs: Average to above average. Decently involved in some advocacy things and have a few pretty unique 'just-for-fun' ECs as well haha
Caveat: Will be couples matching with someone who will likely be trying to match into a semi-competitive/competitive specialty

I know this is super early into the game still and that my application is decently solid for now, just trying to plan ahead and looking for any advice about how to be stronger for the top IM programs (I know they're still a crapshoot, but any advice helps!). Preferably want to go West coast but I have no ties there

You'll be fine. Coming from a top 10 school and all honors thus far will take you far. Moving ahead just focus on honoring as many third year rotations as possible and sub-I during 4th year if it's graded. Try to get AOA if your school has a chapter and top grouping of your MSPE letter. Otherwise, get to know some faculty in IM well who can write you great letters. Continue the trend and I imagine you should be competitive for any program though couples matching definitely complicates things.