Northstar Anesthesia

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Man o War said:
Yep this is it.
I'll be watching this one to see how it unfolds....
That call burden is high and that is a busy hospital system.
Five weeks vacation.
Jesus.
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Deplorable. I don't tie my shoes for anything less than 10 weeks vacation.
 
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gasdoc77 said:
Anyone know the 411? Is this the same facility Northstar is taking over? If so, yikes!


http://gaswork.com/mobile/post/view/201469/
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Busy practice with heads, hearts, regional transfer center for acute strokes. Must be proficient in all regional techniques and comfortable with CRNA's performing blocks. Weekly schedule will rarely exceed 65 hours.

5 weeks vacation. q3 first call.

370k LOL

Pay me double that with excellent benefits, take out that nonsense about crnas, and then maybe we'll talk.
 
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nimbus said:
Q3 call 65hrs/wk 400k. Good luck.
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Oh don't forget q6 second call- at that place I bet the backup gets called in all the time.
Is anyone really going to consider this?
Or is getting hired by this company like buying a house- the first offer is usually a lowball and negotiation is expected?
 
Just for fun, inquire what a M-F 40 hour/week no call/no weekend/no holiday CRNA get? then do the math on the hourly rate. theirs and this position's.
 
dr doze said:
Just for fun, inquire what a M-F 40 hour/week no call/no weekend/no holiday CRNA get? then do the math on the hourly rate. theirs and this position's.
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AMCs give the crna an hourly wage, but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different? You are still an employee, but work like an owner for nothing extra? Sounds like worst of both worlds. Makes zero sense how people accept this.
 
anes121508 said:
AMCs give the crna an hourly wage, but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different? You are still an employee, but work like an owner for nothing extra? Sounds like worst of both worlds. Makes zero sense how people accept this.
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Desperation. Naivety. Desire to be "close to family."

Edit: And I just noticed that you do NOT need to be board certified to work here. There's the hook - they'll fill this position in no time.
 
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anes121508 said:
AMCs give the crna an hourly wage, but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different? You are still an employee, but work like an owner for nothing extra? Sounds like worst of both worlds. Makes zero sense how people accept this.
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This is the direction the market is going in. These jobs are becoming more and more common. If you were a giant company, why wouldn't you try to lowball offers like this? A student entering medical school now who is planning a career in anesthesiology is very likely to take a job like this for lack of better options.
 
GravelRider said:
This is the direction the market is going in. These jobs are becoming more and more common. If you were a giant company, why wouldn't you try to lowball offers like this? A student entering medical school now who is planning a career in anesthesiology is very likely to take a job like this for lack of better options.
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Caveat emptor.
 
anes121508 said:
AMCs give the crna an hourly wage, but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different? You are still an employee, but work like an owner for nothing extra? Sounds like worst of both worlds. Makes zero sense how people accept this.
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"but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different?"
-uhm, yes at least mine are.

Makes zero sense how people accept this.
-desperation, excess of supply, etc.
 
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dr doze said:
"but the anesthesiologist is a "physician" so the expectations are different?"
-uhm, yes at least mine are.QUOTE[/QUOTE

What I'm saying is that the AMC tells crnas and docs they are both employees. However, the expectation for crna is to work X hours for X dollars. The expectation for the physician is to work whatever hours they need you for X dollars. Are you saying you agree that is the way it should be?
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Consigliere said:
Desperation. Naivety. Desire to be "close to family."

Edit: And I just noticed that you do NOT need to be board certified to work here. There's the hook - they'll fill this position in no time.
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Didn't catch that at first.
I wonder if the hospital knows this or if Northstar conveniently left that out.
I'm familiar with this system and I'd be surprised if they OKd that.
 
Awful. Just awful.

Why anyone would even consider this blatant exploitation of our profession is beyond me.

I honestly think that Deathstar is the worst of the AMCs. Unethical to the bone.

You are way better off working locums and controlling your destiny.
 
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sevoflurane said:
Why anyone would even consider this blatant exploitation of our profession is beyond me.
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I think that a lack of good references and/or board certification puts a lot of anesthesiologists into corners where these jobs are acceptable. I saw a fair number of them when I was moonlight/locum'ing.

Less desirable locations and less desirable jobs get people with baggage.

I briefly had a moonlighting job through Northstar. I was uncomfortable with how that particular location was run. I worked 4 days and did not schedule any more. I thought it was manageable at first, but the final straw was when they asked me to do a preop consult for a patient who was obviously in no way an ASC candidate, then ignored my rec to do the case in the main hospital. I was done. They clearly wanted me there just to have a licensed person who'd sign the charts for the CRNAs. Bye.

But I had employment options, I didn't need the job ... my only loss was the wasted time and effort to get credentialed there.
 
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Does this job offer also come with extras such as them kicking you in the b@lls repeatedly once a day, having relations with your wife, or perhaps first dibs on one of your kidneys for the upper management. Seriously that job sounds horrible.
 
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PainDrain said:
Does this job offer also come with extras such as them kicking you in the b@lls repeatedly once a day, having relations with your wife, or perhaps first dibs on one of your kidneys for the upper management. Seriously that job sounds horrible.
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Wow...! :eek:... :thumbup:
 
Twiggidy said:
Anyone on this board that ACTUALLY works for them?
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Given Northstar's size, there undoubtedly are people who work for them here. But like some Trump voters, they are too embarrassed to admit it, even to a pollster or on an anonymous forum.
 
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I suspect people are afraid to give honest feedback. I heard they make physicians sign non disparagement agreements and that the company can be very punitive. I find it interesting that the specialty has come to this.
Did they ever get that contract on the Louisville facility? Anyone have the scoop?
 
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Think long and hard before relocating your family to work with these guys. Suppose you move, only to find you are the only sucker who took a call-taking position amidst a takeover......true story. Meanwhile you are expected to be a "team player".

If call freq, hours, etc aren't EXPLICITLY defined in the contract it is no accident. Promises can (and will) be broken.
 
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It's amazing to me the differences between offers and the level of recruitment/negotiation when comparing offers from desirable locations and even slightly less desirable places. Some places/groups obviously don't have an issue getting CVs thrown at them.
 
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Had an interesting conversation with a friend from residency. He is working at a facility in Kentucky that was acquired by Northstar. Apparently, one of their lead CRNA's left an email open in which they were talking with a (much) higher up and had a running list of the order that attendings were on the chopping block (a reverse lottery?). They had notations of their strengths and weaknesses, such as "excitable", etc. One doc had a note that referenced a social media post, making them less desirable! I would think long and hard before relocating, buying a house, moving spouse and kids, and settling in that kind of environment.
 
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Office of the Inspector General now investigating their newly acquired Louisville facility? Coincidence? Hospital administrators take note. The AMC model is to over promise and under deliver. Never mind that they are now reportedly costing the hospital twice the amount (millions) in subsidies due to the necessary use of countless locums.
At least physician private groups have a vested interest in providing and maintaining a quality product. AMC's know that once their foot is in the door, they GOTCHA.
 
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So apparently in Louisville they are paying $250 an hour for an 8 hour day and time and a half for overtime to some of their locums! Don't let them low ball you guys!!!!!! Also, when Northstar took over one of the established CRNA's was appointed chief. When called by a previous partner MD and asked to do something, they replied by saying "I don't know if you got the memo, but you aren't my boss anymore".
One of the physicians working for them at those inflated locums rates told the regional director (in strict confidence) that he was going to explore a few other options. That director sent an email to everyone about their conversation and that said physician was going to be leaving as an effort to pressure him to sign on full time at their paltry no-retirement salary.
 
hypnosMD said:
So apparently in Louisville they are paying $250 an hour for an 8 hour day and time and a half for overtime to some of their locums! Don't let them low ball you guys!!!!!! Also, when Northstar took over one of the established CRNA's was appointed chief. When called by a previous partner MD and asked to do something, they replied by saying "I don't know if you got the memo, but you aren't my boss anymore".
One of the physicians working for them at those inflated locums rates told the regional director (in strict confidence) that he was going to explore a few other options. That director sent an email to everyone about their conversation and that said physician was going to be leaving as an effort to pressure him to sign on full time at their paltry no-retirement salary.
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Not nearly enough money to deal with that stinky CRNA attitude. No thank you. Will take less for some peace of mind.
 
So the locums that were lured into complacency in Louisville by Northstar were suddenly given a draconian contract with onerous call, virtually no retirement, marginal pay, and an 18 month geographic no compete and told to sign or be terminated. I guess once you are settled and have a house, etc they can spring the trap.
 
hypnosMD said:
So the locums that were lured into complacency in Louisville by Northstar were suddenly given a draconian contract with onerous call, virtually no retirement, marginal pay, and an 18 month geographic no compete and told to sign or be terminated. I guess once you are settled and have a house, etc they can spring the trap.
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Why would any locum buy a house at an assignment?
 
hypnosMD said:
So the locums that were lured into complacency in Louisville by Northstar were suddenly given a draconian contract with onerous call, virtually no retirement, marginal pay, and an 18 month geographic no compete and told to sign or be terminated. I guess once you are settled and have a house, etc they can spring the trap.
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However bad the job was, $250/hr is good for anesthesia. What's the new rate?
 
the interesting part is that "someone" will work there ...so these places will never learn their lessons
 
There are like 1500 new Anes grads a year. Got to work somewhere
 
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Notorious T.E.E. said:
Why would any locum buy a house at an assignment?
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These were holdovers from the prior group that cut themselves a "locums" deal. Reportedly one of them was recently able to get the surgeons to rally behind him and demand Northstar give him whatever he wants to stay (since "their" providers have caused morbidity/mortality). Now he will get to take Northstar to the cleaners indefinitely. Chalk one up for the little guy!!!
 
This situation is a hot mess. I know a guy who was in the old group, I hope they stand their ground and rape/pillage Northstar.
 
Northstar now tightening the reins. The docs who cut themselves locums deals have one-by-one been given notices, forced to sign contracts with regional no-competes taking substantially more call/less pay. They have isolated and eliminated the targets. One doc had even talked to other hospitals in the system and Northstar went to administration and torpedoed his efforts so as to "box him in". They will let him stay but only on a short term "rolling" contract as a trial in case they wanna drop the axe. It's a dirty business folks.
 
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hypnosMD said:
Northstar now tightening the reins. The docs who cut themselves locums deals have one-by-one been given notices, forced to sign contracts with regional no-competes taking substantially more call/less pay. They have isolated and eliminated the targets. One doc had even talked to other hospitals in the system and Northstar went to administration and torpedoed his efforts so as to "box him in". It's a dirty business folks.
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Seriously, this is why you never get used to 400k or 30k/month, you don't live check to check, and you remember that you have a skillset that is valuable. Too many of us have been neutered and just take these things lying down. I feel for the well-rooted Docs with a house and kids in school etc, but we've got to stop signing on with these outfits. Going to a place with a dominant system and signing a ridiculous non-compete is quite simply asking for this.
 
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Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
Seriously, this is why you never get used to 400k or 30k/month, you don't live check to check, and you remember that you have a skillset that is valuable. Too many of us have been neutered and just take these things lying down. I feel for the well-rooted Docs with a house and kids in school etc, but we've got to stop signing on with these outfits. Going to a place with a dominant system and signing a ridiculous non-compete is quite simply asking for this.
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Living modestly and saving prodigious amounts of money has never been bad advice. Personally I keep at least 12 months expenses in my emergency fund and realistically I could go much longer than that if I lost my job tomorrow. You always want flexibility so you aren't forced into taking a terrible job.
 
an interesting google review that was brought to my attention by someone who is in the know. I wonder if hospital administrators even consider these things, or if it is all about the bottom line (although, even then...)


Google
 
hypnosMD said:
Northstar now tightening the reins. The docs who cut themselves locums deals have one-by-one been given notices, forced to sign contracts with regional no-competes taking substantially more call/less pay. They have isolated and eliminated the targets. One doc had even talked to other hospitals in the system and Northstar went to administration and torpedoed his efforts so as to "box him in". They will let him stay but only on a short term "rolling" contract as a trial in case they wanna drop the axe. It's a dirty business folks.
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Fighting back: the individual who was being cornered has now partnered up with another group in the same system and will be taking a facility back from Northstar. They can flip-flop providers from the other facility and backfill to avoid no-compete obligations. :corny:
 
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hypnosMD said:
Fighting back: the individual who was being cornered has now partnered up with another group in the same system and will be taking a facility back from Northstar. :corny:
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Really? Didn't northstar just take over there? Does this have anything to do with Jewish being sold?
 
Man o War said:
Really? Didn't northstar just take over there? Does this have anything to do with Jewish being sold?
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I will look into that, but I don't think so. Pretty sure that the other group is in the same system that Northstar penetrated. These administrators have no allegiance to anybody.
 
hypnosMD said:
I will look into that, but I don't think so. Pretty sure that the other group is in the same system that Northstar penetrated. These administrators have no allegiance to anybody.
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I'm surprised they are getting rid of northstar this soon. What happened to make them move on so quickly? Are they not fully staffed?
 
Man o War said:
I'm surprised they are getting rid of northstar this soon. What happened to make them move on so quickly? Are they not fully staffed?
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Man o War said:
I'm surprised they are getting rid of northstar this soon. What happened to make them move on so quickly? Are they not fully staffed?
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I can ask my friend, but after all I've heard it wouldn't surprise me if admin never intended to use Northstar long term and just used them to do their dirty work and break up the previous group.
 
I haven't heard all the details, but I am under the impression another Norton group is partnering with some of the docs at one of Northstar's facilities to take it over from within. It should be very interesting to watch unfold.
 
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