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Thank you for sharing your experience, Ed. Congratulations on getting in!
The following post is my complete story. The summary "lessons learned" are in the last paragraph and can be read as a standalone post, if you want to skip the autobiography.
I will be 48 when I start medical school in August. After reading a few posts about why older people should not apply to medical school, I started a thread called "Why I am not discouraged." In that thread I was accused of being arrogant. I confessed the fault, but rejected the cure. The thread was eventually shut down because it got so hostile.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=655410
But the medical school application process damaged my arrogance much more than any poster on SDN could.
A couple of years ago, I was a successful software engineer, working at home for reasonably good wages. I had a great desire to increase my commitment to serving others and had tried several different plans to make that happen. I first attempted to use my job's geographical independence to start a traveling evangelistic ministry. I met enough closed doors to know that wasn't going anywhere. I then attempted to look for ways to work 2 jobs and therefore retire early and do missionary work.
My children were starting college at the time, and I began helping them with their work. To my surprise, I realized that community colleges were actually quite affordable. I started the local community college as a nursing major, thinking that I could do 2 jobs and retire early with a useful missionary skill. During one of the college's career days, some of the admissions department from Oklahoma State University manned a table. After talking to them for a few moments, I realized that I had set my sites too low. I didn't need to work a second job as a nurse. I could be a doctor and be a truly effective part-time medical missionary.
I started investigating if this was possible. This is where I made my mistake. It looked too easy. All I had to do was take a few courses, complete my bachelors, take a standardized test (I'm good at standardized tests) and walk down the carpet into a glorious new profession. I didn't realize that there are millions of people who get good grades and can take standardized tests.
I knew that, at my age, I am in a race against time and I know that I am a good student. I enrolled for 12 hours of courses, including my first, ever, biology course (I had managed to graduate high school without taking biology). The first semester went well, so my arrogance increased.
The next semester I again registered 12 hours including Chem II at the CC. To my disgust, on the first day, I saw that the experienced teacher that I was expecting had been replaced with a new young girl who quoted sentences from the book word for word and didn't answer any difficult questions. I dropped the course, intending to study the subject for myself and CLEP it. This was a big mistake. Again, I was too arrogant to realize that Chem II is not an easy subject for anyone.
Despite this mistake, I managed a 33 on the MCAT, though only 9 on the BS. As I expected, the VR was fairly easy for me. I got a 13 there.
My final, and greatest, mistake was to apply at only 6 schools - excluding the local osteopathic school of OSU. I was pretty stuck on myself and my arrogance reached its height when I got an invitation to interview at Mayo. At this point, I figured that an acceptance Oklahoma University was assured and a Mayo place was possible. I congratulated myself on the wisdom of my applications.
All of this came crashing down around my head in early November when OU rejected me and (pretty rudely, actually) refused to give me any feedback on reasons. I was placed on hold with Mayo. I still had an interview coming up at Creighton, but I was getting the idea that medical school is not a shew-in for anyone.
I rushed to get my application into OSU and completed it on December 14th. On Dec 15th I was offered a January interview and received word yesterday, Feb. 8th, that I was accepted. This is particularly welcome because during this time period my job was outsourced to India and I was approved to received Trade Allowance credits that will pay for half of 2 years tuition and give me unemployment insurance during this time. I also have just started attending a church where I am in the leadership and am needed in the services. I can also keep my home by taking in fellow medical student boarders.
I have learned two things in the process. Firstly, even when I think that I am the bright and shining asteroid of brilliance that God saw when he looked down through the eons of creation, there are plenty of fallen stars who thought the same. No one, no matter how brilliant, is a shoo-in for Medical School. Apply to many schools. Secondly, as Shakespeare said, "There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune." Sometimes, there is simply a correct path to take. I would simply call it the Will of God. In the past month I have come to realize that I should follow the led path.
I took the advice of my pre-med advisor over the universal opinion of this forum and applied narrowly to only the schools that I really wanted to attend and a couple of safety schools.
We will discover the result soon.
anecdotal evidence =/= establish a rule
I read your interesting advice of applying to less schools earlier, I know if I had narrowed my pool right now I'd be screwed.
I've had 6 interviews and probably 4 of them wouldn't have been on my narrowed list. One is longer shot but in a place I couldn't have seen myself going, after visiting the school I was amazed how awesome it was (moved near my #1 choice). I applied to slightly under 20 schools. I'm more confident in my interviews and relaxed because I've have other possibilities and practice (hence improving my chances!).
Now that I've been on the interview trail, I will avoid forming any opinion of the school until after I've met the faculty, students, and felt the atmosphere of the school.
Not to say your advice was poor, just that I'm glad I didn't follow it.
Trust me, if you do a DO degree and an MD residence, by the time you'll be an attending, it will have almost no stigma anymore. The only people as MD that still hold the stigma strongly are the older generation that will keep retiring.
I'm not sure that I agree. As long as DO schools have MCAT scores 5 or more points below everyone else, then there's going to be a perception that DO's have a little less horsepower under the skull cap.
I know that higher MCAT does not equal a better doctor, but the perception exists and will exist until someone with lower grades cannot get into a DO school even though they have no MD chance.
only pre-meds and especially SDN pre-meds know and think about this stuff. Besides, once you're in medical school and a guy with a 33 MCAT is dominating a guy with a 41, you will begin to understand that MCAT mental horsepower doesn't mean much.
As I read this, I couldn't help but remembering our discussion back in October (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=768845&highlight=schools+applied+to):
I did remember a few comments about DO's you made in general, which I remember responding to. So I was a bit surprised to see you go Osteopath. Anywho, glad you got in and good luck.
I did remember a few comments about DO's you made in general, which I remember responding to. So I was a bit surprised to see you go Osteopath. Anywho, glad you got in and good luck.
You went to a lot of effort to say "I told you so." I would have confessed without the proof. But if you want me to say it, I will try. You were right and I was wr..., I was wrooo.... I was not exactly entirely correct.
Great interview because of chemistry with person = random
Adcom loves essay = random
Adcom hates essay = random
student interview, don't click = random
I'm now 31, married with a 2 year-old son, and pursuing a surgery residency TBD tomorrow on Match Day!
I'm from a family of surgeons - my father has been a practicing general & colorectal surgeon for 30+ yrs, while my brother is now near-complete in his trauma & critical care training.
On my residency interviews I joked that the question asked of me at 5 years old was not "what do you want to do when you grow up?" but rather "what kind of doctor do you want to be?" or even "what kind of surgeon do you want to be?"
I loved math & science but also had talent for arts & the humanities, going so far as to audition for music conservatories at 16 and gain acceptances to places like Eastman for cello performance.
In the end, I went to a great college but at a very young age, and halfway through I questioned whether I was premed for me or for some kind of family fulfillment or legacy thing. During this time I interned for a general practice attorney in New Jersey, loved it, and thought that law school would be a great fit for me to apply my interests and talent in analysis and writing to help folks with their social issues.
So at 20 I matriculate to law school in NYC, single and excited at the chance to become a bigshot attorney as seen on all the TV courtroom dramas. I interned in a variety of practices, ranging from personal injury to landlord tenant to the DA's office.
In September 2001, though, I was working Mondays and Fridays for a boutique entertainment law firm whose penthouse suite overlooked Downtown Manhattan. As you may or may not recall, 9/11 occurred on a Tuesday. I witnessed the devastation across the East River from the Brooklyn Promenade, and eventually, after our offices moved uptown to Union Square and back downtown again to Park Place, I would take my breaks on the rooftop near our office suite and stare at what used to be a striking part of the New York skyline, now utter ruin.
It was during those breaks that I thought "what if?" regarding my choice of not going to medical school. I started communicating with my college premed office and was greeted with laughter over the phone after I mentioned my lackluster college transcript. The advisor suggested I consider dental school, osteopathic school, or the Carribbean, but I insisted on pursuing an allopathic MD at an American school.
So while in law school I start taking graduate biochemistry classes, and by the time I sat for the NY Bar at 23, I was all set to matriculate into a Biology Master's program. I do very well, mostly A's, sit for the MCAT a 2nd time and do well but not great. I end up with 2 interviews and ultimately waitlisted at my top pick.
My best friend, himself an OMFS resident at a top program, then suggested I work at his old lab on Long Island. I take up his suggestion, his PI hires me within 5 minutes of meeting, and I spend 2 years doing benchwork. I take the MCAT a 3rd time, up my score by 9 points, and get many more interviews on reapplying, getting 3 acceptances and choosing to attend medical school in Western NY.
Since coming up here with my wife, I've done well, worked hard, and while not the most stellar student to come through here, I've created a good enough profile to generate interviews at plastic surgery programs and many top general surgery programs. I've matched, and where I go remains to be seen tomorrow at 12 noon.
So folks, keep you chin up but your nose to the grindstone. Learn from failures and setbacks, and whatever you do, remember that the fruits of your labor may come useful years down the line, as my benchwork (4 publications) and law degree (interpersonal/networking ability) did for me as a residency applicant. Listen to constructive criticism but don't get overly dejected from the naysayers.
And remember that you can't do it alone - mentors are key, whether they are friends, family, or employers. Someone going to bat for you, be it an e-mailed introduction to someone, making a phonecall to a program director, etc., makes the difference between getting what you want and struggling.
Applied: 30 (Thank God for the fee waiver)
Interviews: 6
Interviews attended: 3
Acceptances: 3 (Updated 3/16/2011)
AGE: I'm currently 34, and I'll be 34 when I matriculate this year. I was 30 when I left the military in 2007 and started on my post-bacc.
GPA: When I graduated with my first bachelor's degree in 2000, my GPA was below 3.0. My degree was liberal arts, but I had still taken a few science classes and done poorly. There's no getting around the fact that I wasn't a good student during my first few years of undergrad. I knew that if I was going to be successful in applying to medical school, that I would have to show admissions committees that I could handle the academic workload required in medical school. Hence, I decided to start from scratch in the summer of 2007 and complete a second bachelor's degree in Molecular Biology. As a full-time student - I took almost all science and math courses, and in those science courses I earned all A's - except for a B in Biochem (stupid Biochem). I ended up with a 3.87 post-bacc GPA and a 3.97 post-bacc sGPA, with 114 semester hours and 90 semester hours, respectively. My overall AMCAS GPAs were 3.33 overall and 3.29 science.
MCAT: I used ExamKrackers and Berkley Review, and I took every AAMC computer test under timed conditions. I wish I had started using the Berkley books sooner, because I really felt that they helped me understand the concepts better. I was getting ready for a military deployment during the time that I was studying for the test, so I had more interference in my studying than I would have liked, but who doesn't have interference of some kind? My actual exam score (31Q: 12BS, 10PS, 9V) was right around my AAMC average, so I can't really complain too much. If I hadn't gotten accepted this year I would have studied over this upcoming summer and taken the test again in August. Thank God I won't have to do that now, because I'm looking forward to spending that time with my fiance before school starts. Anyway, it's been said again and again on these boards, but the key for me was taking AAMC tests under timed conditions.
ESSAYS: I think the biggest thing with the essays and personal statements are making your story interesting to the reader. I can tell you that I did horribly on essays that asked why I wanted to go to school X. The application, and essays, that I felt I did well on included prompts that tried to get to know me better as a person. Essays describing ethical dilemmas, interests, etc. were the ones that I felt good about, and I'm pretty sure all of the schools that I received interviews at included essays like this in their secondary applications. Duke's application was a beast, as they say, but it gave me the opportunity to show them who I really am. Use that to your advantage.
LORs: I was fortunate to have a couple of professors for multiple courses and a job in the military where I could get a decent LOR from a Battalion Surgeon who knew what I'd done as a medic. I also had a pre-health committee at my school that wrote me a committee letter. A former military team leader also wrote a LOR for me. I'm not sure what advice can be given with regards to LOR's, but if you have a professor that you like try taking multiple courses with that professor. That way, he can write about your academic performance over a longer period of time.
ECs: I had plenty of clinical experience with about 8 years in the military at the time of my application, including both Active Duty and National Guard time as a medic. However, when I started back to school I also became an ER tech in a Level I Trauma Center. I worked about 30 hours per week there for the first two years of my post-bacc, in addition to my duties with the National Guard. My scope of practice was a little more limited as an ER Tech than it has been in the military as a medic, but I saw a side of civilian medicine that I wasn't able to see in the military. I was also able to witness first-hand how the ER is misused by those who choose to use it as their primary care provider. I think this is the most overlooked aspect of working in a hospital. While on Active Duty I deployed to Iraq, and I'm currently on a deployment with the National Guard. I hadn't even thought of going to medical school prior to joining the military, and some would consider my job to be pretty unique, so I owe everything to the experiences that I've had as a soldier. I've done a little bit of volunteering as an advisor to a campus organization, but other than that I didn't have a lot of volunteer work this time around. There just wasn't that much time for it. I did volunteer quite a bit during my first undergraduate degree. Maybe between that and my military service I've been philanthropic enough. I have absolutely no research experience, but I'm looking forward to getting some in the future.
INTERVIEWS: Being overseas has definitely complicated things in the interview department. Upon submission of each secondary that I completed, I informed the admissions offices of each school that I would be away on a deployment for pretty much the entire cycle. I'm certain that being upfront about that has helped my cause. I have done two phone interviews and one Skype interview thus far, although I'm fairly certain that I'm done interviewing for the cycle. I declined a few other interviews for good reasons. I'd definitely prefer to interview in person, but beggers can't be choosers. I'm humbled that anyone even thought enough of me as an applicant to give me the chance to interview. Anyone can see that my stats themselves aren't overly impressive, so I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I've had. I enjoyed the Skype interview, and I would prefer it to a phone interview - just because you're able to see the expressions and body language of the interviewer.
OVERALL ADVICE: Don't worry about what your chances are or what everybody else is doing with regards to their stats. I know that numbers and stats are important in this process, but don't rely too heavily on those as indicators of what you're capable of. Personally, I can't stand the what are my chances threads. My stats are certainly nothing to be in awe of, and I think that's the case for a lot of nontrads. I was surprised about some of the out-of-state interviews that I received, but I was even more surprised about some of the rejections that I got from schools that my numbers fit more closely with. Who knows who's reading your application? Maybe that person has been through an experience similar to yours - or just finds your story appealing. Do your best, and in your essays make yourself become somebody that admissions committees want to meet.
Good luck to everyone, and please let me know if I can be of any help to you. It can be a long road, but I'm definitely happy about how things turned out. Plus, I met my fiancee during my post-bacc. WIN WIN..
I am a current allopathic medical student who started med school at age 31. I applied at age 30 to 22 medical schools. Of those, I received 21 secondaries, was invited on 19 interviews, attended 17 of them, and received 12 acceptances, six with full scholarships.
I'll start by saying that my general philosophy is that there are two broad categories that you must consider as you go through the app process. The obvious one that we spend a lot of time discussing in this forum and elsewhere on SDN is how to improve your weak areas. That is certainly a major component of improving your competitiveness as an applicant. But one equally important aspect to being a successful applicant that we don't discuss nearly as often is that you must also highlight your strengths. Do not underestimate the importance of doing this: medical schools are not charities, and they are looking for people who are successful. You must show them that you are successful, as well as that you have the potential to continue being successful in med school and beyond.
I would say that there are six areas where medical school applicants must strive to distinguish themselves, whether they are trads or non-trads. These include the obvious ones like GPA and MCAT, but also ECs, essays, LORs, and interviewing skills. I will go through each one and give some examples from my own application saga.
GPA: This is a big area of weakness for a lot of non-trads because many of us have subpar UG GPAs for allopathic medical schools, and I am no different. I had an especially sticky problem in this respect because I had no UG GPA at all. I took all of my UG coursework (including the pre-med pre-reqs) P/F, and I have no credit hours or grades. AMCAS calculated my UG GPA as zero. As you can imagine, this caused me significant problems at several schools. I was able to overcome this problem in several ways. One was that I scored very high on the MCAT. A second was that I had graduate grades and GPAs for my MS and PhD. The third was that I copied my narrative evaluations from college and sent copies of them to all 22 schools along with a cover letter explaining how my college worked, as well as that it was accredited! This was amazingly expensive and time-consuming, but I believe that it helped considerably. When I went for pre-app counseling, one admissions office suggested that I consider taking a year of post-bac classes at the UG level in order to establish an UG GPA and prove that I could still handle the work. I elected not to do this since I was in grad school for my PhD at the time. My decision to not follow this advice may have hurt me at a few of the schools, particularly the ones that rejected me with no interview. In my applications and interviews, I stressed that my graduate record and MCAT scores both "proved" that I was capable and ready to handle medical school coursework.
MCAT: This was an area of immense strength for me. I scored a 43S on the MCAT in August 2004, and I have posted extensively about how to study for the MCAT on SDN over the past two years. You can find most of my MCAT advice in the MCAT forum and Study Questions subforum if you are interested. The MCAT score was not an area that I particularly had to do much explaining about on applications or at interviews; it basically spoke for itself.
Essays: This is another crucial aspect of your application. Both your PS and your secondary essays are read by the adcoms, and at most schools, by your interviewers. In general, your PS should answer the questions of why you want to go to med school, and what experiences you've had to back this assertion up. Initially, my PS was not very appropriate for a medical school application. I got a lot of feedback from some SDNers (thanks again, njb!) and the preadmissions counseling sessions about this. I decided to follow their advice, and I rewrote my PS from scratch along much more conventional lines. It wasn't nearly as entertaining to read, but it was a lot more appropriate. I think that this was one area where the pre-admissions counseling I received both at the med schools and from some SDNers helped me improve my app tremendously. I do not think I would have been as successful of an applicant if I had obstinately stuck with my first essay. In general, I advise all of you to ask others in the know (med students, admissions counselors, etc.) to read your essays. If everyone keeps making the same criticism, you probably should seriously consider taking their advice.
LORs: These are not directly in your control, but what *is* in your control is to carefully chose whom you are going to ask for letters, and to get the proper letters. Most schools require three LORs but will permit you to submit up to six. I usually sent four, but I had five total. I got letters from my PI for my PhD, my PI on the clinical trial where I volunteered, my manager at Kaplan, one of my PhD committee members, and one peer. (My state schools require peer letters. I asked a former UG student of mine who was an M1 at the time to write the peer letter for me.) Second, I advise you all to use interfolio ( www.interfolio.com ) or another online clearinghouse for your LORs. This makes both your life and the life of your recommenders MUCH easier. It costs a little more, but I think it was completely worth it in terms of the decreased stress associated with submitting LORs to the schools. Third, many schools want letters from non-science faculty. This was not possible in my case, because my UG Spanish professor had retired some time in the past ten years since I left the college. I asked those schools for permission to substitute the employer letter instead, and they all agreed to this. I advise you non-trads who have been out of school for a long time to ask your schools for permission to substitute employer letters too. It will make your life a lot easier. Also, when you ask people to write your letters, impress upon them that these letters must be strong, and they must attest to your abilities to succeed in medical school. The best LORs cite specific examples of things you have done to show that you possess characteristics like responsibility, a good work ethic, honesty, etc. Give the person a copy of your transcript and your CV to use in crafting the letter. Finally, it goes without saying that you should send thank you notes to everyone who writes you a LOR.
ECs: This was another area where I was kind of lopsided and did not have a very good appreciation of my strengths and weaknesses before I went for the preadmissions counseling. It was obvious to us all that my research background was one of my strengths. I was also extensively involved as a volunteer for BBBS, doing science demonstrations for inner-city elementary school kids, working on the MCAT subforum here on SDN, and volunteering as a co-investigator and project manager of the clinical trial. I thought that should be enough. However, what I learned from the counseling is that many medical schools would like to see RECENT CLINICAL volunteering. I was advised to volunteer in a hospital or clinic on top of these other things. I decided to take this advice, and I began volunteering in a hospital surgery waiting room. At the time, I was in my last year of grad school, and the only time I could do it was from 6-8 AM. This was incredibly painful. Every week, I would turn off the alarm clock at 5 AM and wish I could go back to sleep, but then I would ask myself: Q, would you rather get two more hours of sleep, or do you want to go to med school? And then I would get my butt out of bed and go volunteer. That I did this was TREMENDOUSLY important. I got asked about it at a third to a half of my interviews, even at several heavily research-intensive schools. What makes this all the more incredible is that I would not have even known about this weakness of mine, let alone taken steps to correct it, had I not gotten the preadmissions counseling.
One other thing I came to discover is that I had a "hidden" strength that I hadn't ever really considered before, and that was as an educator. Look again at my list of volunteering ECs, and you will see that nearly all of them involve teaching of some kind. I had also won two major teaching awards, and I was employed as an instructor for Kaplan and at my university. I didn't come to appreciate how important a strong teaching background is to the medical schools until after I had the preadmissions counseling. Now that I am in medical school, I appreciate the importance of it even more. Doctors spend their entire working lives teaching people: their patients, their colleagues, and themselves. Thus, medical schools are extremely interested in applicants with a teaching background. I wound up making this personal strength one of the central themes of my PS and discussing it extensively at my interviews. Again, I doubt I would have thought to do this had I not gone for preadmissions counseling.
Interviews: Once you have reached this point, the acceptance is still not in the bag. It is essential that you practice expressing the points you made in your PS in a clear, concise, and engaging way. It is also essential that you can articulate why you want to attend each school where you interview. I did several things to prepare for interviews. First of all, I studied extensively for every interview. I would estimate that it took me about 2-3 hours EACH to prepare for them. What was I doing for that long? Reading the school's entire website and making notes of interesting features or questions I had about the school. (Sometimes I even knew more about the features of the curriculum than my interviewer did.) Going through the interview feedback from that school on SDN. (There were several schools where I got asked the exact same questions I had already seen on SDN.) Re-reading my apps and making sure I could explain my UG thesis research from 12 years ago. (I actually did get asked about it at one school, and the interviewer was d*** impressed that I could rattle off the entire title of my UG thesis!) Engaging in mock interviews. This is key. Some of my fellow Kaplan instructors were home from med school for the summer, and I got a few of them to mock interview me. They were so combative and tough on me that every real interview I had was a cinch in comparison. They accused me of being arrogant because of my MCAT score, or claimed I was using their school as a safety school, or demanded that I "prove" that I had sufficient social skills to be a doctor, etc. It really made me think about how I presented myself and made me aware of how careful I had to be about what impression I was giving off to the interviewers.
Some other tips: I also got help with my essays and interviewing skills from the Office of Diversity at one of my state schools. This may sound strange, but it really isn't when you consider that diversity is a broad term that encompasses much, much more than just race and ethnicity. If you are a non-trad, you will add diversity to your class based on that reason alone. Second, I called every single school before I applied, explained my grade situation, and asked whether I should realistically apply there. A couple of schools discouraged me from applying. One actually outright told me no, that I almost certainly would not be accepted there. I decided not to apply to any school that was not encouraging, with the exception of the one school that rejected me presecondary.
I hope that this post has been helpful, and if anyone has any further questions, feel free to post them or PM me. Best of luck to the current applicants.
No, from two of my state schools and also UMich by phone. I just called and asked for an appointment with someone in the admissions office.Hi Q, When you say that you had pre-application counseling, do you mean with each individual school to which you applied? I did not realize one should reach out to the deans of the schools. I thought that they would frown at that as they get thousands of applications and are busy people. Care to elaborate a little? Thanks!
ortho, your post is fantastic and really inspiring. Congrats on your acceptance too; it's especially sweet after you had such a hard trip to the interview.
P.S. I've heard from other people about not wearing black suits because everyone does. But I decided that I better wear one too, because I figured I already stood out enough based on my freako transcript and the little Einstein thing I have going with my hair whenever it gets humid....I have to confess that I did wear a leopard print shirt under my suit at some of my interviews though.
I am a 31 yr old environmental engineer. I have a 3.15 sGPA and a 3.23 cGPA. I graduated from my degree with a 3.51 magna cum laude from NC State. The reason my gpa is so low is that I retook Calc a couple times at the beginning of my journey and failed a computer programming class. The old scores are from 2005 and my degree was from 2012-2015, I had a couple semester with a 3.8 while working full time (with engineering courses this was not easy). I have most of my courses already except organic chem which I am planning on taking through a community college. I am working full time as a civil engineer currently and want to get into med school. I really don't have any ec's. I was married while going to school and working full time....had no life.
I really dont want to go back to school for a masters or anything and I believe my transcript shows that I can do well in science courses while working full time. Should I just focus on DO school and start volunteering? I plan on taking the MCAT after I take organic chem.
The path to med school as a non traditional is a long one, a lot of things you may consider accomplishments are also held out against you as people question your motivations to stick out on this long road when you are already doing well. No easy way to get there quickly. You especially have the extra burden to show schools and yourself that this is absolutely what you want to do with life, more so if you are coming from an unrelated field in which you are doing fine. For that reason, you have to volunteer quite a bit with ideally a letter of recommendation e.g. you become part of the local free clinic team etc. Secondly, the GPA will weigh on your app. The best way is to have a clean break from it. You don't need to do an MS but you need to consider doing a "post bacc" which doesn't need to be a degree program but just you taking a bunch of classes to show you can do well in Chem/Bio etc. I would suggest not doing it at a community college but at a university and do everything you can to get a 4.0. Now I realize this will require work but to be competitive and have a serious shot vs. the tons of applicants out there and to show your true commitment to this journey, it is something that is expected. Perhaps OD would be easier than MD, and that is something you can research, but you'd still have to do a lot of this to show commitment as a nontrad and be competitive. I get the sense that you want to get in quickly but that will make it getting in much harder and reduce the chance of success.I am a 31 yr old environmental engineer. I have a 3.15 sGPA and a 3.23 cGPA. I graduated from my degree with a 3.51 magna cum laude from NC State. The reason my gpa is so low is that I retook Calc a couple times at the beginning of my journey and failed a computer programming class. The old scores are from 2005 and my degree was from 2012-2015, I had a couple semester with a 3.8 while working full time (with engineering courses this was not easy). I have most of my courses already except organic chem which I am planning on taking through a community college. I am working full time as a civil engineer currently and want to get into med school. I really don't have any ec's. I was married while going to school and working full time....had no life.
I really dont want to go back to school for a masters or anything and I believe my transcript shows that I can do well in science courses while working full time. Should I just focus on DO school and start volunteering? I plan on taking the MCAT after I take organic chem.