No More 16 Hour Cap for Interns

[general admission]

Well... you realize this is the surgery forum right?

Uh, yes?

how does the validity of what i said hinge on that in any way?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LucidSplash]

Uh, yes?

how does the validity of what i said hinge on that in any way?

Because I had bolded the last part of your statement where you said that 30 hours only makes sense for surgical residencies. Which everyone in here is doing/has done. So wasn't sure what the point of your post was. I thought it could be summarized as "I hate being up all night and would rather do two weeks of night float here and there but I guess maybe it makes sense for surgery to do overnight call." Which is a weird thing to post in a surgery forum.

Also agree with SS above. Our interns do 2-3 total months of night float a month at a time and at my place that is Sunday-Thursday night with Friday AM-Sunday 6pm off. Our PGY2s usually have 1 month each. Those not on night float don't have any weekday night shifts but take "call" every other weekend covering 2 services each (for interns this means 2 interns cycling in and out for 2 shifts each during the weekend and whoever is on Friday night misses being there Friday during the day). When covering floors the PGY2s and 3s take a 24 on Saturdays and are flanked by an intern for Friday night/Sunday AM. The 2s and 3s still do traditional overnight weekday and weekend call ever other weekend when on critical care. They all prefer the overnight call to the night float even though our night float gives them every weekend off.

Sure if it was 2 weeks of night float vs any call ever everyone would take the 2 weeks. But that's not what we are discussing.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I want to know how a program only has 2 weeks of night float per year. I'm FM and in my second year I had 2.5 months of night float. 3rd year was slightly better at 1 month, but still.

 

[MediCane2006]

I'm all up in this thread liking all the posts

Funny how pretty much all of the actual surgeons (and those who have done both systems) are in agreement that this rule change is for the overwhelming better....and all the trainees are in a tizzy about being OMG TIRED with 24 hour call. Fortunately we old-timers have the preponderance of evidence on our side....

 

[bannie22]

NF has been the worst experience of internship so far. That said, a couple of two week blocks and it's over with.

Pretty much all my coresidents say their 30 hours suck more. Still stuck w/ cross coverage, and approx 0 times have any of the residents on their 30 hour felt okay the following morning. It's extremely rare that things are calm enough for sleep. And as if randomly staying up all night repeatedly throughout the year is any better than a couple of two week stints of being nocturnal. Post-call ****ing sucks too, it's just straight to bed.

30 hours only seems like it would make sense for surgical residencies.

I cant speak for medicine, but for surgery, the NF system is definitely superior.

I always felt well rested on NF whereas on 24, it is just destructive to health as you stagger deliriously towards the end of 30hours of intense physical activity etc.
In fact, why would 24 not be better suited on medicine residencies when the night is calmer, with less sickly admissions (unless you are covering ICU), and less patient volume.

Both in terms of patient care and resident health and wellness.

Its disappointing to see the ACGME succumbing to political pressures and surprising that we are in a field where labor laws are not adhered to. I doubt there are few, if any, other workplace that would allow their human beings to work 30 hours, not be paid OT, while making life and death decisions, thinking critically, and performing intricate procedural skills.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I cant speak for medicine, but for surgery, the NF system is definitely superior.

I always felt well rested on NF whereas on 24, it is just destructive to health as you stagger deliriously towards the end of 30hours of intense physical activity etc.
In fact, why would 24 not be better suited on medicine residencies when the night is calmer, with less sickly admissions (unless you are covering ICU), and less patient volume.

Both in terms of patient care and resident health and wellness.

Its disappointing to see the ACGME succumbing to political pressures and surprising that we are in a field where labor laws are not adhered to. I doubt there are few, if any, other workplace that would allow their human beings to work 30 hours, not be paid OT, while making life and death decisions, thinking critically, and performing intricate procedural skills.

You mean like the on-call attending surgeon operating at 2am after a full day (and likely working the following day as well) on an uninsured patient that they know isn't going to pay them anything for the procedure?

Man, if only there was some form of training that helped prepare surgeons for that type of work.

 

[ProfMD]

I cant speak for medicine, but for surgery, the NF system is definitely superior.

I always felt well rested on NF whereas on 24, it is just destructive to health as you stagger deliriously towards the end of 30hours of intense physical activity etc.
In fact, why would 24 not be better suited on medicine residencies when the night is calmer, with less sickly admissions (unless you are covering ICU), and less patient volume.

Both in terms of patient care and resident health and wellness.

Its disappointing to see the ACGME succumbing to political pressures and surprising that we are in a field where labor laws are not adhered to. I doubt there are few, if any, other workplace that would allow their human beings to work 30 hours, not be paid OT, while making life and death decisions, thinking critically, and performing intricate procedural skills.

Your opinion is the minority opinion among surgeons.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I cant speak for medicine, but for surgery, the NF system is definitely superior.

I always felt well rested on NF whereas on 24, it is just destructive to health as you stagger deliriously towards the end of 30hours of intense physical activity etc.
In fact, why would 24 not be better suited on medicine residencies when the night is calmer, with less sickly admissions (unless you are covering ICU), and less patient volume.

Both in terms of patient care and resident health and wellness.

Its disappointing to see the ACGME succumbing to political pressures and surprising that we are in a field where labor laws are not adhered to. I doubt there are few, if any, other workplace that would allow their human beings to work 30 hours, not be paid OT, while making life and death decisions, thinking critically, and performing intricate procedural skills.

But then you are pre-podiatry, so how would you know?

 

[LucidSplash]

Based on bannie's post history I'm not at all convinced he's even in medicine.