Negative (problematic?) conversation with a grant officer

[Glees]

Hey all! So I applied for an F31 back in the spring, but something about the process really bothered me. All of my mentors were urging me to contact the grant officer to ask if my project was a good fit for NIMH's mission. I went into the conversation well-versed in what to say and not to say to a grant officer, and knowledgeable about NIMH's current aims. I am applying for a multicultural-focused grant, and was put in contact with the correct officer, and asked him pretty clearly (I think) if my project felt like a good fit, or if it didn't feel in sync with NIMH's current mission. However, when I spoke to him he said, "I'm not quite sure what you're asking," and after I gave more context about my project and asked the question again, he said in an exasperated tone, "You're a smart woman, I'm sure you'll figure it out." He also made an assumption that I was earlier in the program than I was (even asked if I'm an undergrad) even though I told him I was planning my dissertation and had a spring application date for the F31.

This conversation has been haunting me, and I guess I wanted to ask two questions about it. Have any of you had similarly negative experiences with grant officers? And I know you don't all have the complete context, but does that sound sexist to you? It felt super demeaning in the moment, and I haven't been able to shake that feeling.

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[ilovedance1]

I don't have experience interacting with grant officers, so I can't answer that question. When I was reading your description of the interaction I did think that it sounded pretty sexist though (and that was before I read your question asking if it sounded sexist). I'm sorry that you had that experience.

 

[MCParent]

I've had positive interactions with POs. They vary a lot by person (some people like to talk a a lot and I've had convos about all sorts of tangential things with some, some people like to talk briefly and stick to the details of the grant).
I'm confused about sexism. There are hundreds of NIH PIs who are women. Maybe you think it is a youth x sex thing? There are still dozens and dozens of NRSA women around.
Did you talk to your mentors about how to ask the question? POs get asked all the time, "does this look good for the institute?" It doesn't make sense to me that a PO wouldn't know what you're asking.

 

[Ollie123]

Some program officers are surly/weird/<insert other adjective>. Others are wonderful. Part of the game is finding the right person who will advocate for you. Truthfully, they probably don't have a MAJOR impact on funding at most institutions unless you are on the cusp of funding - though that is more likely to happen now than in the past.

They could be sexist. You could have just caught them on a bad day. You could have (understandably!) fumbled with your wording a bit when speaking to them the first time because you were nervous. I did on my first call.

They also could have genuinely confused you with the undergrad they were supposed to speak to 10 minutes before your call or the other person they were supposed to speak to after. I will say that I would NOT want their job - they have a million different applications they are assigned to these days. With the grant funding situation being what it is - a larger and larger portion of their time is spent dealing with highly anxious and/or angry investigators (and unlike us - most of them are NOT trained to handle anxious/angry folks and its not what brought them into the field ). Doesn't excuse their behavior, but perhaps helps frame it.

Either way, I wouldn't make too much of this. I might consider listing someone else if NIMH has other relevant program officers (I usually submit to NIDA/NIAAA so am not of much of help). The goal should be to cultivate somewhat of a long-term relationship. Either way though, don't catastrophize this experience. If your grant scores well, it will be funded and if not it probably own't. Just like mine and just like everyone else's. The PO has EXTREMELY limited ability to influence that process. Its worth reaching out to them, but its not a make-or-break kind of thing.

 

[deleted343839]

My conversations with NIH program officers have been mostly positive, frank, and to-the-point. Some POs are warmer than others, for sure. But I can't think of a appropriate reason for someone to say, "You're a smart woman, I'm sure you'll figure it out." That sounds pretty dismissive.

If it helps you feel better, the head of an NIH program office once wrinkled her nose at me during a face-to-face meeting when I was pitching a proposal idea. Try not to take it personally. It is a system with its own set of norms and rules, and the players need not have any meaningful experience as real-world health professionals. That is why grantsmanship is aptly described as a "game."

 

[singasongofjoy]

I'm a relatively youngish woman and it didn't come across as sexist to me. Rude and unhelpful, yes, but not sexist. I appreciate the background/framing others have provided on how that process works- does help put conversations with folks into perspective when you think about how frazzled/stressed and pushed for time they may be.