PhD/PsyD Need admissions advice

[thechariot1x]

So on Wednesday I was offered admissions for what is currently my number two program. The catch is that they only gave me until Monday to decide because of the national deadline date. I was really hoping they would give me a couple extra days since they let me know so late but oh well. I immediately called my top choice program but they won't know anything until Monday. At this point do I have any options? Could I call and ask for an extra day to decide in order to give my top choice a chance to respond?

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[singasongofjoy]

My understanding is they are hard deadlines and situations like this are why they e it's- because otherwise people hold on to one or more offers while waiting to hear back from others and that just keeps trickling downstream. Were you specifically told that you were on the waitlist at your number 1? Then I would find out, if you can, what number you are on the waitlist. If you are number 1 or 2 maybe then I would try to find out what time of day (and time zone) is the deadline. Otherwise I would go with number 2. Most people have already accepted or declined by this point imagine so it is v unlikely to get in off the waitlist if you are not in the top 2. And if your number one was really interested in you they'd be able to tell you i think if you were on the waitlist (or would have already)

 

[thechariot1x]

My understanding is they are hard deadlines and situations like this are why they e it's- because otherwise people hold on to one or more offers while waiting to hear back from others and that just keeps trickling downstream. Were you specifically told that you were on the waitlist at your number 1? Then I would find out, if you can, what number you are on the waitlist. If you are number 1 or 2 maybe then I would try to find out what time of day (and time zone) is the deadline. Otherwise I would go with number 2. Most people have already accepted or declined by this point imagine so it is v unlikely to get in off the waitlist if you are not in the top 2. And if your number one was really interested in you they'd be able to tell you i think if you were on the waitlist (or would have already)

Im on the waitlist but they claimed they haven't tier ranked it yet. Also, my girlfriend really wants me to ask (since I live in PA and Florida is closer) is it an option to commit to my number 2 and pay the fee and then back out afterwards if I get an offer from my number one. What repercussions other than lost two hundred dollars would there be for this?

 

[MCParent]

pay the fee

Wut?

 

[singasongofjoy]

pay the fee and then back out afterwards

Yeah, what?? What fee? Is your #2 program an APA accredited one? I don't know anything about any sort of fee so that sounds suspicious. If it's not an accredited program, then you might want to be asking some different questions.

 

[thechariot1x]

Its APA accredited. There' a two hundred dollar nonrefundable deposit (sorry not fee) just to reserve your spot when you accept the offer from the program. Every PsyD program seems to have this from what I've seen.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Im on the waitlist but they claimed they haven't tier ranked it yet. Also, my girlfriend really wants me to ask (since I live in PA and Florida is closer) is it an option to commit to my number 2 and pay the fee and then back out afterwards if I get an offer from my number one. What repercussions other than lost two hundred dollars would there be for this?

To answer your questions re: repercussions, I don't know that there would be any hard repercussions but there might be "make you feel like a slimy person" repercussions. There's a chance people will remember your name for having burned them (def seen that happen), and after you accepted they may tell waitlist applicants that they are not getting an offer so then they might accept somewhere else- and then if you pulled out and they got an offer but had already accepted somewhere else that would be sad and unfair. That's why the rules about notification/decision deadlines and etc. are in place.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Its APA accredited. There' a two hundred dollar nonrefundable deposit (sorry not fee) just to reserve your spot when you accept the offer from the program. Every PsyD program seems to have this from what I've seen.

Huh. News to me. Still sounds weird.

 

[MCParent]

Is the other program funded? Does it require this nonsense fee?

 

[rerope]

My program is pretty reputable, is apa-accredited and has this fee as well. Though its refundable as we get full tuition remission.

 

[FirstYearPsyD]

Im on the waitlist but they claimed they haven't tier ranked it yet. Also, my girlfriend really wants me to ask (since I live in PA and Florida is closer) is it an option to commit to my number 2 and pay the fee and then back out afterwards if I get an offer from my number one. What repercussions other than lost two hundred dollars would there be for this?

Don't let people scare you about this fee! It might be newer, but all the grad schools I got into requried a fee to hold my spot (all APA accredited PsyD programs). I was deciding between two schools and called to ask your very question. There's no penalty if you pay the fee and change your mind besides losing the couple hundred dollars which, in comparison to the price of grad school/all the application fees is a drop in the bucket anyway. The fee just holds your place by declaring you will attend that school. Since you will hear from your first choice school on Monday it sounds you won't even delay other students from hearing for longer than the national notification either. I would recommend securing your spot in your second choice school and hoping for the best from your first choice!

 

[Justanothergrad]

Its APA accredited. There' a two hundred dollar nonrefundable deposit (sorry not fee) just to reserve your spot when you accept the offer from the program. Every PsyD program seems to have this from what I've seen.

... Wow

Every gimmick has a day. What a racket. I've never heard of a respectable program doing this, ever.

 

[psych.meout]

Don't let people scare you about this fee! It might be newer, but all the grad schools I got into requried a fee to hold my spot (all APA accredited PsyD programs). I was deciding between two schools and called to ask your very question. There's no penalty if you pay the fee and change your mind besides losing the couple hundred dollars which, in comparison to the price of grad school/all the application fees is a drop in the bucket anyway. The fee just holds your place by declaring you will attend that school. Since you will hear from your first choice school on Monday it sounds you won't even delay other students from hearing for longer than the national notification either. I would recommend securing your spot in your second choice school and hoping for the best from your first choice!

OP, don't let this person trick you into thinking this acceptable. You're not reserving a hotel room or leasing an apartment. Just because Many PsyD programs are doing it does not make it a good or acceptable thing to do to potential students. There are lots of shady things PsyD programs do that their students just convince themselves are normal and acceptable, e.g. hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition, significantly less than 100% APA accredited internship match rate, attending non-APA accredited internships, inflating their internship match rate from said deplorable rate using captive internship sites, etc.

 

[rerope]

... Wow

Every gimmick has a day. What a racket. I've never heard of a respectable program doing this, ever.

OP, don't let this person trick you into thinking this acceptable. You're not reserving a hotel room or leasing an apartment. Just because Many PsyD programs are doing it does not make it a good or acceptable thing to do to potential students. There are lots of shady things PsyD programs do that their students just convince themselves are normal and acceptable, e.g. hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition, significantly less than 100% APA accredited internship match rate, attending non-APA accredited internships, inflating their internship match rate from said deplorable rate using captive internship sites, etc.

I'm gonna jump in here. Do we know anything about the program aside from the fact that its a PsyD program and there's a deposit? I believe 2 of the programs I applied to (both R1 PhD programs, 1 of which I'll be attending) had this and their stats are pretty good. If the OP is going to a crap program then yeah that's a whole other issue (and the fee is probably going to be the least of their worries) but from the info presented we have no idea what the caliber of the program is and no need to unnecessarily scare them like that.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I'm gonna jump in here. Do we know anything about the program aside from the fact that its a PsyD program and there's a deposit? I believe 2 of the programs I applied to (both R1 PhD programs, 1 of which I'll be attending) had this and their stats are pretty good. If the OP is going to a crap program then yeah that's a whole other issue (and the fee is probably going to be the least of their worries) but from the info presented we have no idea what the caliber of the program is and no need to unnecessarily scare them like that.

Its a money making gimmick because it doesn't serve the student in any way. The student is not receiving a service in exchange for their money. Its not a standard practice in education. Its not a standard practice in higher education within psychology. You can pretty it up with lipstick by saying others do it, but at the end of the day if you are requiring extra fees in order to be accepted, that is a money making gimmick. Its predatory and (unsurprisingly) it appears to be driven mostly by PsyD programs so I can only assume that it started with the unfunded/for profit ones. I have never heard of schools doing this and have to wonder why a school would opt to charge a 'non-refundable deposit/fee'. What would be the motivation? If you/someone would be so kind as to list those R1 PhD schools that do this I would like to read about how they pitch this non-sense.

The only doctoral level I've found with a quick google is Nova.. and thats probably not the model of training to aspire to.

 

[rerope]

Its a money making gimmick because it doesn't serve the student in any way. The student is not receiving a service in exchange for their money. Its not a standard practice in education. Its not a standard practice in higher education within psychology. You can pretty it up with lipstick by saying others do it, but at the end of the day if you are requiring extra fees in order to be accepted, that is a money making gimmick. Its predatory and (unsurprisingly) it appears to be driven mostly by PsyD programs so I can only assume that it started with the unfunded/for profit ones. I have never heard of schools doing this and have to wonder why a school would opt to charge a 'non-refundable deposit/fee'. What would be the motivation? If you/someone would be so kind as to list those R1 PhD schools that do this I would like to read about how they pitch this non-sense.

The only doctoral level I've found with a quick google is Nova.. and thats probably not the model of training to aspire to.

NYU does this and it's credited towards your tuition for the first semester, though it's technically refundable for my program as we get full remission. I dont't remember the other program unfortunately as I've met quite a few students during the interview process and I don't remember which one explained it when I asked about fees. (And if I quote the wrong one someone is going to inevitably jump down my throat to gleefully tell me I'm wrong).

Note my previous comment though. If the program has crap stats then the fee is indicative of more problems than just shoddy business practices but we don't know which the program the op is talking about (it could be some predatory professional school). But based just on the fee, without knowing the name, apa match rates, funding package, and other factors I think it's silly to make such a big fuss about it.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I'm really surprised to hear that this is such a contentious issue. Most undergrad and master's programs require a deposit to confirm and secure a spot and the money goes toward tuition. I guess I just didn't realize that PhD programs didn't follow the same model, especially given that applicants (OP) are pulled in so many directions when considering their acceptances.

 

[mlwg1]

I'm really surprised to hear that this is such a contentious issue. Most undergrad and master's programs require a deposit to confirm and secure a spot and the money goes toward tuition. I guess I just didn't realize that PhD programs didn't follow the same model, especially given that applicants (OP) are pulled in so many directions when considering their acceptances.

In that case the money is going toward tuition, though, which is different from squeezing out a few bucks just because applicants at non-funded programs appear to go along with pretty much anything these days.

Yes, applicants are being pulled in many directions, but it's their right to have options at this phase of the process. The money is yet another way that these programs tip the balance of power disproportionately in their favor.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

In that case the money is going toward tuition, though, which is different from squeezing out a few bucks just because applicants at non-funded programs appear to go along with pretty much anything these days.

Yes, applicants are being pulled in many directions, but it's their right to have options at this phase of the process. The money is yet another way that these programs tip the balance of power disproportionately in their favor.

The OP's deposit is going toward tuition. They clarified earlier in the thread.

I thought the purpose of the deposit was for applicants to confirm that they are holding no other offers and accept the offer of admission to a particular school. It's after the deadline, so I'm not sure if it's still their right (or best practice anyway) to hold multiple offers.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I just don't see the purpose this serves in promoting better education. Saying places do it doesn't make it a reasonable model of education and I don't see an actual rationale for it that benefits the student. If the school is a for profit, it makes sense. If the school is a not for profit/state school, then the purpose is for the service provided and then I have to ask what potential reason a school would have for doing this:

1. Are the schools concerned that they will be unable to keep students who commit and attend their school to train?
Is the fee really the biggest issue if a school can't get people to commit to their program? Probably not. As folks have advised and discussed here, a few hundred bucks is easy to give up if necessary so that doesn't 'lock' anyone in to attending a school. It just takes money from the prospective student if they back out. So the issue is 'why would they back out to start with' and that's a question about the educational system/support provided within the program.

2. Are the schools concerned that they will not be able to remain solvent without the additional funds?
Having a fee doesn't seem to be the issue here since its refundable (so long as you stay in), so it can't be to stay solvent. And even if it was, that is not a justification for an educational system. Thats a buisness model and we've seen how well those work for promoting psychology training.

3. Are the schools so full of extra money that they want to make sure a student comes or they'll lose it based on a yearly budget?
If this were the case it doesn't seem like a fee would be needed. Better funded places are more popular and, by nature, are more likely to retain commitments.

I just don't see any rationale actually sticking around and making sense as a necessary and beneficial requirement. Thats why I think its a gimmick.

 

[MCParent]

I think matriculation fees generally go toward the person power that requires processing forms, setting up an email, etc. A few hours of work spread among a few people.

I guess it's probably normal-ish.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Yeh, I guess. It's just a new trend that seems to be showing up. Just don't see the reason for it, like I mentioned above.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I just don't see the purpose this serves in promoting better education. Saying places do it doesn't make it a reasonable model of education and I don't see an actual rationale for it that benefits the student. If the school is a for profit, it makes sense. If the school is a not for profit/state school, then the purpose is for the service provided and then I have to ask what potential reason a school would have for doing this:

1. Are the schools concerned that they will be unable to keep students who commit and attend their school to train?
Is the fee really the biggest issue if a school can't get people to commit to their program? Probably not. As folks have advised and discussed here, a few hundred bucks is easy to give up if necessary so that doesn't 'lock' anyone in to attending a school. It just takes money from the prospective student if they back out. So the issue is 'why would they back out to start with' and that's a question about the educational system/support provided within the program.

2. Are the schools concerned that they will not be able to remain solvent without the additional funds?
Having a fee doesn't seem to be the issue here since its refundable (so long as you stay in), so it can't be to stay solvent. And even if it was, that is not a justification for an educational system. Thats a buisness model and we've seen how well those work for promoting psychology training.

3. Are the schools so full of extra money that they want to make sure a student comes or they'll lose it based on a yearly budget?
If this were the case it doesn't seem like a fee would be needed. Better funded places are more popular and, by nature, are more likely to retain commitments.

I just don't see any rationale actually sticking around and making sense as a necessary and beneficial requirement. Thats why I think its a gimmick.

Are you opposed to it for undergrad programs? Master's programs? Or just doctoral programs? Honest question. I'm just trying to gauge whether you are drawing a line somewhere, or if you're against it across the board.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

Yeh, I guess. It's just a new trend that seems to be showing up. Just don't see the reason for it, like I mentioned above.

Do you mean a new trend for doctoral programs? My undergrad (an ivy, which I add to say that it isn't an online, for-profit) required an enrollment deposit to secure a spot in the class. It went toward tuition. Maybe that's why it seemed totally reasonable for me to send one for a doctoral program, but I admit that I don't know the history of this practice.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Do you mean a new trend for doctoral programs? My undergrad (an ivy, which I add to say that it isn't an online, for-profit) required an enrollment deposit to secure a spot in the class. It went toward tuition. Maybe that's why it seemed totally reasonable for me to send one for a doctoral program, but I admit that I don't know the history of this practice.

I'm a bit older, so this is a new trend even for undergrad for me. I just haven't applied to undergrad in... lets just be nice and say a couple of years. My partner attended a very prestigious private college/major research university and even for her, that was a new phenomenon. That school does this now but did not 10-12 years ago. I don't recall ever hearing about this when I went through undergrad (I certainly didn't pay one) or when I toured them and considered them.

I dislike the practice as a whole. I don't see any benefit that this system offers to address.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I'm a bit older, so this is a new trend even for undergrad for me. I just haven't applied to undergrad in... lets just be nice and say a couple of years. My partner attended a very prestigious private college/major research university and even for her, that was a new phenomenon. That school does this now but did not 10-12 years ago. I don't recall ever hearing about this when I went through undergrad (I certainly didn't pay one) or when I toured them and considered them.

I dislike the practice as a whole. I don't see any benefit that this system offers to address.

I can see your point. I'd just never really questioned it because it seemed standard and pretty reasonable as long as it goes toward tuition.

I applied to undergrad in 1998 by the way

 

[deleted827241]

This really is standard practice now at even reputable well-ranked schools. The fee goes towards tuition for students (undergrad & grad), but PhD students in a fully-funded program get the fee back when school starts and tuition bills are evened out. It may not be a smart practice, but there's no use trying to make OP feel like this school is a bad choice because of something that is unavoidable at most schools.