Can anyone help me out with this? On FREIDA it states this program is university-based, and on ERAS it looks like that as well, but I've heard a lot of people refer to this program as a community program.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I have been told by many people it's better to go to a university program if you desire a competitive fellowship. I know this is not always true as some community affiliated programs are still very strong, but was wondering as I am seeing conflicting information online regarding whether this program is university or affiliated.
For historic reasons it can be considered university based ... Why is it that only Harvard is entitled to have 3 university programs ? Why can't BIDMC be called a harvard affiliated community program?
I have a friend who is a PGY3 there.. They did match 4 pgy3s x GI this year..one of them had a ton of research. One was in house . 2 had the usual abstracts and case reports and yet managed to match in university programs.
There cards and hem-onc match are at par with mid to upper mid tier university programs.. Last 6 years they have 35-40 cards matches including 2 in NYU-Langone , 1 in yale , 1 in emory and ton of other mid tier places. Hem onc matches include Moffet , UMD, cleveland clinic ,emory ,yale , vanderbilt , MDACC (2012)...
I have no dog in the fight. However, if u compare the match rates with programs like UT-Santonio , U kentucky , UTMB-Galveston , Indiana university ,arkansas ,loyola etc the match rates are either comparable or SLR/Jacobi have better matches. (except for GI maybe)...of course Einstein philly and Jakobi has equivalent match rates.. (Jacobi is referred to as a community program in the forums even though it is housed in the same campus as AECOM and the Weiler hospital ). .of course there is the other side of the story...The residents in these programs (slr,jakobi , ccf etc, ) are top tier imgs , many of whom have a ton of research and are bound to do well no matter where they go... The match may be as much reflective of the strength of the residents as that of the institute.
my argument was mainly on the arbitrary nature of why some programs are classified as academic and some as community, particularly on SDN... Especially programs like Case/Metrohealth ,SLR and Jacobi which are reported as university based in FREIDA...
Rather than making a university vs community distinction it is probably better to make an academic vs non-academic distinction. Most of the university programs tend be academic in nature whereas most of the community programs are non-academic.
I define academic as having good opportunity for research, good support, with bonus points for being a tertiary referral center and access to more complicated cases. With the most important feature being the opportunity for research in any field, which seems to be the most important thing for obtaining a fellowship in that field (especially for the more competitive subspecialities).
SLR and Jacobi are more academic in that they have strong ties to big institutions, even if they are community hospitals. SLR to Mount Sinai, and Jacobi to AECOM. And research is ultimately what matters for competitive fellowships. Smaller community programs that don't have many research opportunities limit the potential for residents.
But I did a Sub I at SLR and was a resident at monte. Jacobi and SLR ARE community programs.
How would one define a university hospital and a university affiliated, community hospital ? In most cases its obvious. Like Vanderbilt university medical center is obviously a university hospital. And garden variety community programs with tenuous affiliations that I would not be able to name on the top of my head are obviously community.
I am interested if anyone can come up with an objective definition that includes BIDMC as a university hospital ,but metrohealth, Jacobi and SLR as community hospitals. How is BIDMCs relation with Harvard different from Jacobi's relation with AECOM or SLRs relation with Icahn , or metros relation with case ? Obviously the perceived prestige of the program cannot define one as university and others as not.
Jacobi was actually the first and for years the only university hospital and IM program for AECOM. When I was a resident there years ago Montefiore was aggressively pushing the AECOM leadership to show that it was "The" university program for AECOM, and I am sure this has become much worse since Montefiore fully bought out AECOM.
Jacobi is not the kind of program that would be popular at SDN since it mainly attracts top-tier FMGs and some strong AMGs (who have their reasons to want to train there). That, along with the support the housestaff get from the program leadership, allows it to have strong fellowship placements. AMGs with steps in the 220s that would allow them to match in other programs that are better regarded at SDN would be highly unlikely to match at Jacobi unless they have other things that really stand out in their application.
How would one define a university hospital and a university affiliated, community hospital ? In most cases its obvious. Like Vanderbilt university medical center is obviously a university hospital. And garden variety community programs with tenuous affiliations that I would not be able to name on the top of my head are obviously community.
I am interested if anyone can come up with an objective definition that includes BIDMC as a university hospital ,but metrohealth, Jacobi and SLR as community hospitals. How is BIDMCs relation with Harvard different from Jacobi's relation with AECOM or SLRs relation with Icahn , or metros relation with case ? Obviously the perceived prestige of the program cannot define one as university and others as not.
I'd like to congratulate the OP on creating the most tedious and pedantic thread the IM board has seen in my 10+ years here.
Jacobi was actually the first and for years the only university hospital and IM program for AECOM. When I was a resident there years ago Montefiore was aggressively pushing the AECOM leadership to show that it was "The" university program for AECOM, and I am sure this has become much worse since Montefiore fully bought out AECOM.
Jacobi is not the kind of program that would be popular at SDN since it mainly attracts top-tier FMGs and some strong AMGs (who have their reasons to want to train there). That, along with the support the housestaff get from the program leadership, allows it to have strong fellowship placements. AMGs with steps in the 220s that would allow them to match in other programs that are better regarded at SDN would be highly unlikely to match at Jacobi unless they have other things that really stand out in their application.
There are 3 Icahn Mount Sinai programs in NY city... So confusing!It's a community program. Icahn MSSM is the real deal academic place.
There are 3 Icahn Mount Sinai programs in NY city... So confusing!
1. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (Beth Israel) Program
2. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Program
3. Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai/St Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program
Which on is the 'real deal academic place'?
220s for US-MDs ...Most imgs in those programs have 250+ in both steps and a strong cv besides that..@rokshana So #1 and #3 are run-of-the-mill programs that someone with ~220 step1 score might get a shot at...
Current AECOM student here. Since when did you need a 220+ to match in Jacobi?
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I know a few people in Jacobi... The IMGs are 250+ ..The few AMGs there are very strong too... They had a match in UPenn cardio before 2-3 years..the guy was from a top tier US med school who could have matched IM anywhere he wanted... Most incontrovertibly university programs have never matched anyone in U-Penn cardio... there may be people with lower scores...but they have things that stand out in their application...Like PhD etc...
@rokshana So #1 and #3 are run-of-the-mill programs that someone with ~220 step1 score might get a shot at...
Yes. But be careful with Mount Sinai Beth Israel. The Mount Sinai Health System is in the process of restructuring the hospital, closing the inpatient side, and building a 70 bed outpatient facility to replace it. At present I believe it has about 800 beds. I won't be applying there due to all of the uncertainty surrounding the program.
Google it and read some of the articles about the changes before applying. I saw a few from 2014-2015 that gave an expected timetable for the completion of the downsizing of 4 years. I have no idea what happens to residents in a program that closes.
Current AECOM student here. Since when did you need a 220+ to match in Jacobi?
I remove it from my list then... Stony Brook is my top choice around the NY city area anyway...Yes. But be careful with Mount Sinai Beth Israel. The Mount Sinai Health System is in the process of restructuring the hospital, closing the inpatient side, and building a 70 bed outpatient facility to replace it. At present I believe it has about 800 beds. I won't be applying there due to all of the uncertainty surrounding the program.
Google it and read some of the articles about the changes before applying. I saw a few from 2014-2015 that gave an expected timetable for the completion of the downsizing of 4 years. I have no idea what happens to residents in a program that closes.
I remove it from my list then... Stony Brook is my top choice around the NY city area anyway...
Stony brook is quite far from NYC. For reference it is slightly further than Providence is from Boston and almost twice as far as Baltimore is from Washington DC.
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I know it's about 90 minutes drive from NY. Ideally, I would like to get into a good program that is 3o-45 minutes from NY city, but my 215-220 step1 score probably won't cut it. So I think SB is a good compromise. I want to enjoy the life of NY city when I have a little time off during residency, but I don't live in NY city and the surrounding areas for a multitude of reasons.
If you know other good programs that are < 1hr drive from NY that won't reject me outright because of my step 1 score, share them.
Definitely casting a wider net--applying 60+ programs mostly in the North east and the South.Unfortunately that score relegates you to community programs in nyc. Some University programs near nyc that might give you a look are RWJ and NJMS in NJ and Northwell (formerly Northshore) LIJ in long Island. Winthrop is another community hospital in the region you might want to consider. I strongly recommend casting a wider net though.
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1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...Slightly off topic. But coming out of a residency program like Jacobi, SLR, Maimonides, how much research does it take to get into a hematology/oncology fellowship? 1 first author journal article? 2? 3? I'm not particularly interested in an academic career and probably just want to work in a clinical setting in the future.
1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...
Top tier academic program for heme/onc are tough coming from even a mid tier university program. Takes something special usually. PhD, significant research (several pubs above and beyond abstracts) , chief. Those all go a long way. Coming from Jacobi or
SLR I agree you'd definitely match somewhere but if you're interested in excellent training it would behoove you to get as much done research wise as possible.
Unless you are in top 20 IM programs , u d need to work your butts for top tier hem onc.. Having said that both SLR and Jaobi have consistently matched top tier in hem onc. This year SLR matched emory. Last year vanderbilt.the year before that Moffet and yale ..jacobis match in top tier hem onc is great too... All those people had high quality research... Access to sloan kettering makes it easier for SLR .. this year one of sloans chief is from SLR. So I d say getting fellowships is no different if u are in mid tier university or u are in SLR and Jacobi...
Take a look at the fellow list from msk. No fellows that were residents at SLR.
Department of Medicine: Our Fellows | Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
Slightly off topic. But coming out of a residency program like Jacobi, SLR, Maimonides, how much research does it take to get into a hematology/oncology fellowship? 1 first author journal article? 2? 3? I'm not particularly interested in an academic career and probably just want to work in a clinical setting in the future.
1 abstract is more than enough to match somewhere in hemonc coming from jacobi or slr..in fact most people don't have even that..however those matches are in low tier university or community programs...however if u want top tier academic programs u need a lot lot more...
Top tier academic program for heme/onc are tough coming from even a mid tier university program. Takes something special usually. PhD, significant research (several pubs above and beyond abstracts) , chief. Those all go a long way. Coming from Jacobi or
SLR I agree you'd definitely match somewhere but if you're interested in excellent training it would behoove you to get as much done research wise as possible.
I said that the sloan IM chief resident this year is an SLR IM grad...(not sure whether that ll improve the odds of matching there,most likely won't).. They have not taken anyone in hem-onc for a while (they did 5-10 years ago when it was still a columbia program)...though they do take people in GI and pulm crit...however hem-onc applicants always get LORs from MSKCC faculty and can always do research there...which helps in matching other top tier places...MSKCC hem-onc is obviously ultra-elitist...most current fellows are from Big 6...All from the top 20/25..I doubt anyone from stony-brook or indiana-univ has any better chance of matching at mskcc...if US-MD is debating mid-tier univ v/s SLR (which was the original intent of the thread) than Hem-onc at MSKCC was never in the picture frame ,so no point losing sleep over it..