MSUCHM Vs. WMED Vs. WAYNE

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

libertyyne

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
10,952
Reaction score
22,502
I was lucky to be accepted to a few schools. I have narrowed the list down to 3 schools. excluding RFU, WVU and some DO schools.

Career Goals:
I am interested in IR, NSG,and NIL but would be happy in any specialty excluding Primary Care.

EDIT: Would Love to Match in Warmer Climates
California, Arizona, Texas, NM, FL, NC, SC, Va

Assessment:
I have created a table with pertinent information and ranked the schools accordingly.
upload_2017-4-3_14-59-25.png

Thoughts?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Just looking at the frequency of 1's, 2's, and 3's, it seems MSUCHM would be the least "risky" for you as it provides great career and family options for you. I think it provides the best of both worlds!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
I would go with MSUCHM. Although a related question, how is MSUCHM different from MSUCOM besides the obvious MD vs DO differences?
Different facilities for GR and different rotation sites. All over michigan , UP, Flint, EL, GR.
 
Wayne.

Your pros and cons list is a bit repetitive so it makes certain scores show up more than they need to. Location to friends/family is more or less the same. Then you also have col and housing? Unless, I'm thinking of this differently than you are.

Where it matters, Wayne - except spouse's job and curriculum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
That's a tough decision. I like MSU but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about the new curriculum. What's the story with WMED's curriculum? Objectively I will say that Wayne probably has the most solid program in all the areas it matters. I'm definitely envious of your position.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Wayne.

Your pros and cons like is a bit repetitive so it makes certain scores show up more than they need to. Location to friends/family is more or less the same. Then you also have col and housing? Unless, I'm thinking of this differently than you are.

Where it matters, Wayne - except spouse's job and curriculum.
The COL and Tuition is separated as the Cost of living is cheaper but the tuition may be higher, I guess i could collapse that into one category. The friends one is definitely an oversight. I agree, with your assessment. That being said med school is though, and I am already asking a lot from my spouse. I dont want to make it worse for her then I should considering some of the career ambitions may not pan out and at the end of the day it would have been less stressful going to a school in a location she prefers. We are visiting Detroit next week to look at some housing. Hopefully she falls in love with some suburb that would make it more palatable to her.
 
That's a tough decision. I like MSU but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about the new curriculum. What's the story with WMED's curriculum? Objectively I will say that Wayne probably has the most solid program in all the areas it matters. I'm definitely envious of your position.
Wmed's curriculum is new. It is TBL which I think I will hate , but it is also designed on best practice. The shared discovery stuff is also scary , considering the extensive hours as an MA during preclinical years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Wmed's curriculum is new. It is TBL which I think I will hate , but it is also designed on best practice. The shared discovery stuff is also scary , considering the extensive hours as an MA during preclinical years.
Interesting. Since both WMED and MSU have new curricula that are unproven must make your decision much harder. Obviously that will change in a few years but until then there certainly is some risk. I personally would prefer watching lecture at home in my pajamas but it seems many schools are moving away from that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting. Since both WMED and MSU have new curricula that are unproven must make your decision much harder. Obviously that will change in a few years but until then there certainly is some risk. I personally would prefer watching lecture at home in my pajamas but it seems many schools are moving away from that.
I like that aspect of wayne TBH. However, a good chunk of the t-20 medical schools have transitioned to curricula that look more like wmed and MSU compared to wayne which is pretty outdated. I had an attending who went to wayne tell me to go to MSU, however my career aspirations may be met at Wayne more .
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I like that aspect of wayne TBH. However, a good chunk of the t-20 medical schools have transitioned to curricula that look more like wmed and MSU compared to wayne which is pretty outdated. I had an attending who went to wayne tell me to go to MSU, however my career aspirations may be met at Wayne more .
I think career outcomes will be very similar from all three schools. MSU and Wayne have better name recognition than WMED and perhaps better connections with residency programs in the midwest but that won't help you match somewhere in a warm climate. Where does your partner want to spend the next 4+ years? Which curriculum do you think will allow you to perform best on Step 1? Everything else is arguably unimportant in the long run.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think career outcomes will be very similar from all three schools. MSU and Wayne have better name recognition than WMED and perhaps better connections with residency programs in the midwest but that won't help you match somewhere in a warm climate. Where does your partner want to spend the next 4+ years? Which curriculum do you think will allow you to perform best on Step 1? Everything else is arguably unimportant in the long run.
I dont know if it is the class size, but wayne seems to have more people matching into areas outside of MI, that being said you are right . The significant other would like me to go to WMED. I would probably do the best at wayne considering their hands off approach.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I'm pretty biased as far as cities; I very intentionally moved from Lansing to Grand Rapids about three years ago, but I did spend 5 years in Lansing/East Lansing so I feel like I can speak to its qualities...or occasional lack thereof.

That being said, I asked because I agree with the objective basis of most of your ratings for MSUCHM, but feel like they lean either "soft 2" or "hard 2" dependent on placement city (in comparison with the measurables of your other two choices). Grand Rapids is an intensely livable city in terms of residential/safety/culture/access to all things medical; it is getting pricier quickly, but it's still affordable compared to bigger cities (though unoccupancy rate is the lowest in the country). I can't speak to what you would experience clinically here versus there, but at superficial assessment being literally across/down the street from Spectrum, Mercy, Metro, Mary Free Bed, various clinics, etc, seems to have its perks.

As someone who is going to WMed this fall (and also has an SO with a career to consider), if it was WMed versus MSU EL, I would pick WMed hands down. If it was WMed versus MSU GR, that would be a much lengthier conversation.

As far as WMed, I'm honestly thinking that they are going to come out the gate strong with their first class graduating next year. Kalamazoo offers more in terms of clinical exposure than most people realize, especially given their residencies/clerkships have been well established for decades, am I think how accessible Bronson and Borgess are should do wonders for broad experiences. WMed itself has seemingly done a lot to secure and build on old strengths, while being incredibly adaptive to new evidence based education processes/best practices.

All of that in consideration, it's hard to argue against Wayne if your SO becomes agreeable to the idea (or you become agreeable to your SO not being agreeable) given what you've presented about your learning preferences. Wayne definitely holds the mantle of "tried and true" amongst your options, for better or worse.
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty biased as far as cities; I very intentionally moved from Lansing to Grand Rapids about three years ago, but I did spend 5 years in Lansing/East Lansing so I feel like I can speak to its qualities...or occasional lack thereof.

That being said, I asked because I agree with the objective basis of most of your ratings for MSUCHM, but feel like they lean either "soft 2" or "hard 2" dependent on placement city (in comparison with the measurables of your other two choices). Grand Rapids is an intensely livable city in terms of residential/safety/culture/access to all things medical; it is getting pricier quickly, but it's still affordable compared to bigger cities (though unoccupancy rate is the lowest in the country). I can't speak to what you would experience clinically here versus there, but at superficial assessment being literally across/down the street from Spectrum, Mercy, Metro, Mary Free Bed, various clinics, etc, seems to have its perks.

As someone who is going to WMed this fall (and also has an SO with a career to consider), if it was WMed versus MSU EL, I would pick WMed hands down. If it was WMed versus MSU GR, that would be a much lengthier conversation.

As far as WMed, I'm honestly thinking that they are going to come out the gate strong with their first class graduating next year. Kalamazoo offers more in terms of clinical exposure than most people realize, especially given their residencies/clerkships have been well established for decades, am I think how accessible Bronson and Borgess are should do wonders for broad experiences. WMed itself has seemingly done a lot to secure and build on old strengths, while being incredibly adaptive to new evidence based education processes/best practices.

All of that in consideration, it's hard to argue against Wayne if your SO becomes agreeable to the idea (or you become agreeable to your SO not being agreeable) given what you've presented about your learning preferences. Wayne definitely holds the mantle of "tried and true" amongst your options, for better or worse.
I completely agree with your assessment of GR. It is probably one of the best cities in America right now to live in. Oddly enough my SO would probably prefer to live in EL compared to GR because of the COL and housing being cheap. That being said I feel like taking the additional unproven risk on WMED makes sense in the context of MSUCHM EL considering match prospects.

We are visiting Detroit this week so hopefully the SO finds a suburb she loves.

The only downside to WMED regarding clinical strength is limited home programs coupled with new school status sounds like it would be a difficult task matching into NSG, or IR or a Neuro->Nil residency.
 
I completely agree with your assessment of GR. It is probably one of the best cities in America right now to live in. Oddly enough my SO would probably prefer to live in EL compared to GR because of the COL and housing being cheap. That being said I feel like taking the additional unproven risk on WMED makes sense in the context of MSUCHM EL considering match prospects.

We are visiting Detroit this week so hopefully the SO finds a suburb she loves.

The only downside to WMED regarding clinical strength is limited home programs coupled with new school status sounds like it would be a difficult task matching into NSG, or IR or a Neuro->Nil residency.

Definitely a fair point on WMed's home programs, and how its unproven record could be a liability in the smaller, more tight-knit/name driven fields. There's strength to both MSU and Wayne in that regard.

Good luck with the visit to Detroit this week. If your SO likes Lebanese food, Al Ameer in Dearborn will wingman the hell out of your pitch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I really like Western Michigan's curriculum. I really wish my school had it. I would gladly give up my summer break so that I had a week after each block to make sure I never fell behind in my classes.
 
My grandfather lives fairly close to Detroit (~30 minutes away) and there are quite a few nice suburbs near Detroit in a variety of price ranges. Have you figured out where you are going to look for your living situation? I am biased because I'm down there at least once a year, but Wayne does have a great school and good reputation.

You certainly can't go wrong with MSUCHM, though! Really, you have a lot of good choices.
 
My grandfather lives fairly close to Detroit (~30 minutes away) and there are quite a few nice suburbs near Detroit in a variety of price ranges. Have you figured out where you are going to look for your living situation? I am biased because I'm down there at least once a year, but Wayne does have a great school and good reputation.

You certainly can't go wrong with MSUCHM, though! Really, you have a lot of good choices.
We were thinking Madison heights/ Berkeley or livonia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
We were thinking Madison heights/ Berkeley or livonia.

I haven't been by Livonia, but I've definitely passed through the Madison Heights/Berkeley area a few times - my dad grew up about 20 minutes away from there. Maybe I'm just a jaded northeasterner, but I'm fond of the area - or maybe it's just nostalgia haha.

Good luck with everything - you'll be fine wherever you end up :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
@libertyyne i looked at your chart again and after some thought, i'm going to switch my vote to Wayne. Your career goals indicate you want to specialize, and the differences between Wayne and MSUCHM in regards to personal factors like family, friends etc. seem more similar to me.

I think research, clinical quality and connections matter more heavily for what you want to do. Going to Wayne is probably your best bet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
@libertyyne Look at RFU's match list - tons of California matches. What score did RFU get on your chart?
I put RFU out of the running due to the high cost of the school. I should probably reconsider their match list does have plenty of california in it, I am unsure if that is just due to RFU accepting lots of Californians vs the schools I have been looking at vs RFU having relationships with California programs.
 
Congrats on getting into med school! I also got into MSU CHM and WMed, but I'm leaning towards CHM. Not sure if you're in Los Angeles, but there's a meet up in Santa Monica with CHM alumni that are doing their residencies in SoCal. Maybe you could get more insight by speaking to the alumni of the schools that you got into. I keep reading about how it's impossible to read match lists because where people go for residency is based off of so many personal variables. Plus 85% of students that went to CHM were IS, I think that's why the majority of the students stay in the Midwest or East Coast for residency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I put RFU out of the running due to the high cost of the school. I should probably reconsider their match list does have plenty of california in it, I am unsure if that is just due to RFU accepting lots of Californians vs the schools I have been looking at vs RFU having relationships with California programs.
It's probably the former :p
 
I got accepted to WMed recently. I am on the waitlist at MSUCHM , Central and Wayne. MSU is my top choice.
Interesting that your extensive post history makes no mention of an interview or waitlist at MSUCHM. It does, however, mention your interviews and waitlists at both WMed and Wayne. It also shows your repeated attempts to convince people to attend any school other than Wayne and WMed in the X-vs-Y forum. If you're going to be self-serving when people ask for advice in this forum, at least be real.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I think Wayne might be the place i'd choose given your goals--but this is without considering the spouse factor-- any word yet if your SO has taken a liking to any Detroit suburb?
2nd place but by a slim margin would be MSUCHM---I hear GR is a beautiful place.
 
I think Wayne might be the place i'd choose given your goals--but this is without considering the spouse factor-- any word yet if your SO has taken a liking to any Detroit suburb?
2nd place but by a slim margin would be MSUCHM---I hear GR is a beautiful place.
Detroit suburbs are in the midst of a crazy housing market. We looked at a few houses and they were sold before we could even put in an offer the next day.
 
Which suburbs are you looking at? Honestly downtown is pretty cool if you don't have kids
I would love to live downtown. However it's kind of outside our price range. We also have dogs etc. Madison heights , Berkely, Ferndale , clawson.
 
Last edited:
I would love to live downtown. However it's kind of outside our price range. We also have dogs etc. Madison heights , Berkely, Ferndale , clawson.

Honestly not familiar with prices (so I could be making awful suggestions) but have you looked at Royal Oak or Dearborn/ Dearborn Heights?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Honestly not familiar with prices (so I could be making awful suggestions) but have you looked at Royal Oak or Dearborn/ Dearborn Heights?
Royal oak is definitely on the higher end of stuff. I haven't looked in Dearborn since we heard some not so flattering stuff about it.should we be considering it ?
 
Royal oak is definitely on the higher end of stuff. I haven't looked in Dearborn since we heard some not so flattering stuff about it.should we be considering it ?

Good and bad areas but you can probably browse around and find better perspectives because I haven't personally lived there
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Royal oak is definitely on the higher end of stuff. I haven't looked in Dearborn since we heard some not so flattering stuff about it.should we be considering it ?
If you try and stay around U of M - Dearborn, and downtown Dearborn, it's very nice.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I was lucky to be accepted to a few schools. I have narrowed the list down to 3 schools. excluding RFU, WVU and some DO schools.

Career Goals:
I am interested in IR, NSG,and NIL but would be happy in any specialty excluding Primary Care.

EDIT: Would Love to Match in Warmer Climates
California, Arizona, Texas, NM, FL, NC, SC, Va

Assessment:
I have created a table with pertinent information and ranked the schools accordingly.
View attachment 217364
Thoughts?
LOL at the frikin chart lmao

I'm dying

Also what's NIL?
 
Decision was made easier today when I received a substantial scholarship. Thanks for your input everyone!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Top