Military between undergrad and med school? Looking for opinions

[tradkeke]

I'll be a junior next year and am scheduled to take the MCAT at the end of the summer. However, I've strongly been considering taking a couple gap years between to pursue military interests. I was going to join after HS but told myself I could always just serve as a physician, but after hearing the real life of physicians over on the military forum I'm reconsidering. Also I think I would rather leave my fiance/wife while I'm in my 20s and not while she has a kid to care for when I'm in my 30s.

Between the coaxing of a recruiter (shocking, I know) and a buddy of mine who is in the Army I was considering it as an option. Here would be what I would have to do, just looking for feedback on the process.

1. Not take my MCAT over the summer, due to it only being good 3 years. Instead take next year so it will be good till 2021 or I could honestly just wait longer, but definitely before I enlist.
2. Yes, you read that right. Enlist, not officer. If I enlist I can get specialist (per recruiter, let me know if anything he says is wrong or untruthful), doing national call to service, after training be out after 15 month ADSO and in the Guard. 68W. I've also considered, and would almost prefer, corpsman but due to the Army giving me credit for my EMT cert I would only have to do 1/2 their AIT and on such a short commitment 2 months in a long time, because I would need to be out for interviews.
3. Enlist Jan 2019, basic, AIT, then 15 months takes me to around 20-21 months. Apply in 2020, out in August-September 2020 gives me time to interview for that cycle. Stay in guard for 2 years so I would be out in time for clinical then go to IRR for remainder.
4. Besides having to reschedule my MCAT, the obvious military risks which I do not underestimate and have thought about greatly, and having to be in the Guard while in med school. I see a lot of benefits, it would give me time to grow, do something besides study, and I would be able to get portions of the GI bill during med school. Plus I think military service could be seen positively by adcoms.

I am a decent candidate for school. 3.7+ s and c GPA. Good clinical, leadership in clubs, strong research with pubs, decent non-clinical volunteering. My plan is not trying to make up for anything I think I necessarily lack, it's just something I feel I would enjoy.

I know it might not make sense to a lot of people, I'm just looking for some brutal truth on if the plan is viable for medical school. All of my info in from my recruiter so take anything I said with a pound of salt.

Thanks for all the help SDN, past, present, and future.

EDIT: I didn't want to post this in the military forum because it said that was for physicians, but sorry if it should have went there.

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[jcorpsmanMD]

I would not advise you to be in the reserves / guard while in medical school. It will not be easy and chances are you won't be able to meet the commitments necessary to have a "good year" in the guard (aka you'd be wasting your time and the guards time). Have you considered joining the reserves after graduating medical school as a resident? A lot better then joining now to be enlisted and just delaying medical school. I admire your commitment to serve but I'll tell you straight up, what you want to do is DUMB. Just wait, join during residency or after residency. Your country isn't going anywhere. You seem like a solid applicant right now, why wait?

EDIT: I was in the U.S. Navy Reserve throughout college and it was hard enough having to drill on weekends before multiple exams or having to go off for 2 weeks during the year when THEY told me I needed to go. You won't have that type of free time in medical school to make it work, trust me, I considered staying in the reserves but after a lot of consideration and consulting with officers I decided to go IRR.

 

[tradkeke]

I would not advise you to be in the reserves / guard while in medical school. It will not be easy and chances are you won't be able to meet the commitments necessary to have a "good year" in the guard (aka you'd be wasting your time and the guards time). Have you considered joining the reserves after graduating medical school as a resident? A lot better then joining now to be enlisted and just delaying medical school. I admire your commitment to serve but I'll tell you straight up, what you want to do is DUMB. Just wait, join during residency or after residency. Your country isn't going anywhere. You seem like a solid applicant right now, why wait?

100% respect your response and thank you for it. I've considered many options when wanting to serve and while I would serve as a physician because it's just something I feel I would always regret not doing, I don't necessarily want to serve as a physician. I want to serve, but I would prefer to do it the way I always intended. Some things came up before I started college with my father's health and it looked like he didn't have much time which is why I didn't join then and I guess I've just never gotten rid of the itch. I feel I'm ready to join and deploy now, I might not want to join and deploy when I'm 35 and have a wife and kids. I understand some people might be fine with that and I commend them for that but right now I'm young and just feel like I'm ready to serve.

Not trying to vent here as this is for advice but I just feel like it's how I truly want to serve. Now when you say it's dumb (which believe me, I understand) do you mean that a decent applicant taking 2 years off to do grunt work is dumb, which it is, or do you mean the plan is logistically not viable? Also, even during the pre-clinical years I would be wasting the Guard's time? I understand during clinical years, but I figured during the first 2 it would be manageable.

Thanks again for the honest viewpoint, exactly what I need.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

100% respect your response and thank you for it. I've considered many options when wanting to serve and while I would serve as a physician because it's just something I feel I would always regret not doing, I don't necessarily want to serve as a physician. I want to serve, but I would prefer to do it the way I always intended. Some things came up before I started college with my father's health and it looked like he didn't have much time which is why I didn't join then and I guess I've just never gotten rid of the itch. I feel I'm ready to join and deploy now, I might not want to join and deploy when I'm 35 and have a wife and kids. I understand some people might be fine with that and I commend them for that but right now I'm young and just feel like I'm ready to serve.

Not trying to vent here as this is for advice but I just feel like it's how I truly want to serve. Now when you say it's dumb (which believe me, I understand) do you mean that a decent applicant taking 2 years off to do grunt work is dumb, which it is, or do you mean the plan is logistically not viable? Also, even during the pre-clinical years I would be wasting the Guard's time? I understand during clinical years, but I figured during the first 2 it would be manageable.

Thanks again for the honest viewpoint, exactly what I need.

If you're joining the national guard I almost assure you that you will be thoroughly disappointed with your "service". The training might be exciting at first, hell you might even enjoy boot camp, I did, but eventually once you're in the guard you'll realize those weekends are just wasting your time and you'll be itching to start your career in medical school. Not only that, but they're not obligated to work around your schedule nor let you go IRR when you see fit. Depending who your superiors are, they could make your life hell while you're in medical school and your grades will suffer. Something you don't want to happen. Secondly, as I mentioned above, they don't have to allow you to go IRR when you want, luckily I had the option to do so after 6 years so I didn't get any major grievances when I decided to do so.

I don't understand why you're opposed to serving as a physician, whether it be active or reserve. If you only sign one contract I doubt you'd be deployed more then once if at all, so I don't understand how your family would suffer. To be quite honest, I think it would end up being more then just 2 years off. You have to be ready for that if you really want to enlist.

 

[tradkeke]

If you're joining the national guard I almost assure you that you will be thoroughly disappointed with your "service". The training might be exciting at first, hell you might even enjoy boot camp, I did, but eventually once you're in the guard you'll realize those weekends are just wasting your time and you'll be itching to start your career in medical school. Not only that, but they're not obligated to work around your schedule nor let you go IRR when you see fit. Depending who your superiors are, they could make your life hell while you're in medical school and your grades will suffer. Something you don't want to happen. Secondly, as I mentioned above, they don't have to allow you to go IRR when you want, luckily I had the option to do so after 6 years so I didn't get any major grievances when I decided to do so.

I don't understand why you're opposed to serving as a physician, whether it be active or reserve. If you only sign one contract I doubt you'd be deployed more then once if at all, so I don't understand how your family would suffer. To be quite honest, I think it would end up being more then just 2 years off. You have to be ready for that if you really want to enlist.

Ahh see I think that might be where my recruiter fudged the numbers. He didn't mention them not being able to switch over to IRR or being able to hold me longer than my ADSO. He said if my ADSO (which is 15 months AFTER I'm trained) is up then it's "illegal" for them to hold me longer than my ADSO. The way it works is it's 15 months ADSO after training and then 24 months in reserves or guard. So, again what he said, was I would be able to do my active duty time, get out around August - September based on when I go to basic, then I would be in the IRR by the start of my second year of med school. Meaning I would only be drilling during the first year.

My issue is the program isn't very popular so I can't find any info on it. Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure where I can look to get the real deal on it and not a recruiters spin.

 

[theonlytycrane]

Just apply to usuhs or do hpsp


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[deleted480308]

Ahh see I think that might be where my recruiter fudged the numbers. He didn't mention them not being able to switch over to IRR or being able to hold me longer than my ADSO. He said if my ADSO (which is 15 months AFTER I'm trained) is up then it's "illegal" for them to hold me longer than my ADSO. The way it works is it's 15 months ADSO after training and then 24 months in reserves or guard. So, again what he said, was I would be able to do my active duty time, get out around August - September based on when I go to basic, then I would be in the IRR by the start of my second year of med school. Meaning I would only be drilling during the first year.

My issue is the program isn't very popular so I can't find any info on it. Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure where I can look to get the real deal on it and not a recruiters spin.

1. Your plan makes the false assumption you can't be deployed in your enlisted mos while on "reserve"
2. In general the plan sucks if your main goal is med school
3. If your main goal is getting to be hooah for awhile and you don't care about med school go for it

 

[tradkeke]

1. Your plan makes the false assumption you can't be deployed in your enlisted mos while on "reserve"
2. In general the plan sucks if your main goal is med school
3. If your main goal is getting to be hooah for awhile and you don't care about med school go for it

Therein lies my dilemma. Your third assumption is precisely correct, I do want to be hooah for awhile. But my eventual goal is medicine. All other benefits are secondary. And while I would still get to serve our country as a physician, it wouldn't be that hooah experience.

From a med school perspective, besides having to retake the MCAT and obvious dangers of military experience. Are there downsides? I just ask because in general if someone wants to take a year or two off it's usually not a big deal. I understand this is unconventional and enlisting to some would be stupid. I guess I'm wondering if it "calls my judgement into question" as Goro always says.

Thanks for the response.

 

[deleted480308]

Therein lies my dilemma. Your third assumption is precisely correct, I do want to be hooah for awhile. But my eventual goal is medicine. All other benefits are secondary. And while I would still get to serve our country as a physician, it wouldn't be that hooah experience.

From a med school perspective, besides having to retake the MCAT and obvious dangers of military experience. Are there downsides? I just ask because in general if someone wants to take a year or two off it's usually not a big deal. I understand this is unconventional and enlisting to some would be stupid. I guess I'm wondering if it "calls my judgement into question" as Goro always says.

Thanks for the response.

If med school is your main life goal it's dumb as hell. I think you overestimate how easy it will be to score a great mcat years after your science courses

If your main goal is hooah, again, go for it. But just know full well how much you risk the already risky odds of med school

 

[tradkeke]

If med school is your main life goal it's dumb as hell. I think you overestimate how easy it will be to score a great mcat years after your science courses

If your main goal is hooah, again, go for it. But just know full well how much you risk the already risky odds of med school

I understand exactly what you're saying. Thank you for the wise words.

 

[tradkeke]

@sb247 @jcorpsmanMD

2 questions for you guys if you don't mind me asking. Based on your advice my plan is seeming more and more unlikely but figured I would give it a shot anyways.

1. If I applied normally and was fortunate enough to be accepted, would it be possible to defer my acceptance? Since I'll graduate early I would only need to defer 1 year to serve or in the worst case (according to my recruiter) 2 years. I know some schools such as UMich (just using it as an example because I'm MI resident, by no means saying I will get in here) give deferments very easily. I heard of someone getting one for 2 consecutive years because he was in a band and wanted to pursue that.

2. Since I would have to serve 24 months in the Guard. Would I be able to switch into MDSSP and tack on the 24 months to my obligation incurred from MDSSP? I feel it would be a better deal for the Army as they would be gaining a future physician.

Also sb247, not to sound stalker-esque but as I said I frequent the milmed forums so I think you are in the Guard. Are you MDSSP? Just curious because some other members that I see such as notdeadyet generally say he doesn't recommend it to most people, due to it being such a long drill commitment (all med school, residency, and then your obligation). Wondered why/if you chose it. Considering that if I cannot do my primary choice that I outlined above.

Sorry to take your time, but I feel you guys are my best sources of advice.

Thanks again.

 

[Medic741]

I'll be a junior next year and am scheduled to take the MCAT at the end of the summer. However, I've strongly been considering taking a couple gap years between to pursue military interests. I was going to join after HS but told myself I could always just serve as a physician, but after hearing the real life of physicians over on the military forum I'm reconsidering. Also I think I would rather leave my fiance/wife while I'm in my 20s and not while she has a kid to care for when I'm in my 30s.

Between the coaxing of a recruiter (shocking, I know) and a buddy of mine who is in the Army I was considering it as an option. Here would be what I would have to do, just looking for feedback on the process.

1. Not take my MCAT over the summer, due to it only being good 3 years. Instead take next year so it will be good till 2021 or I could honestly just wait longer, but definitely before I enlist.
2. Yes, you read that right. Enlist, not officer. If I enlist I can get specialist (per recruiter, let me know if anything he says is wrong or untruthful), doing national call to service, after training be out after 15 month ADSO and in the Guard. 68W. I've also considered, and would almost prefer, corpsman but due to the Army giving me credit for my EMT cert I would only have to do 1/2 their AIT and on such a short commitment 2 months in a long time, because I would need to be out for interviews.
3. Enlist Jan 2019, basic, AIT, then 15 months takes me to around 20-21 months. Apply in 2020, out in August-September 2020 gives me time to interview for that cycle. Stay in guard for 2 years so I would be out in time for clinical then go to IRR for remainder.
4. Besides having to reschedule my MCAT, the obvious military risks which I do not underestimate and have thought about greatly, and having to be in the Guard while in med school. I see a lot of benefits, it would give me time to grow, do something besides study, and I would be able to get portions of the GI bill during med school. Plus I think military service could be seen positively by adcoms.

I am a decent candidate for school. 3.7+ s and c GPA. Good clinical, leadership in clubs, strong research with pubs, decent non-clinical volunteering. My plan is not trying to make up for anything I think I necessarily lack, it's just something I feel I would enjoy.

I know it might not make sense to a lot of people, I'm just looking for some brutal truth on if the plan is viable for medical school. All of my info in from my recruiter so take anything I said with a pound of salt.

Thanks for all the help SDN, past, present, and future.

EDIT: I didn't want to post this in the military forum because it said that was for physicians, but sorry if it should have went there.

I'm sorry but why the f--k would you enlist?! Check out CRO (Combat rescue officer), this was my 'backup' if I didn't get in this cycle, was almost a little sad when the accepts came.

CRO much better 'career' than being a run of the mill combat medic

 

[tradkeke]

I'm sorry but why the f--k would you enlist?! Check out CRO (Combat rescue officer), this was my 'backup' if I didn't get in this cycle, was almost a little sad when the accepts came.

CRO much better 'career' than being a run of the mill combat medic

I'm going to be honest, I had never even heard of this. But after a little research it does sound cool. I think pararescue is incredible but it just doesn't line up with my end career goal of being a physician.

It does seem very much so like a career and if I was making a career out of the military I would definitely go officer. However, I'm just looking for a buffer between undergrad and med school (barring I can get in). If I can't get into med school, I don't think I would want a military career (as in 20 years or more). I definitely agree it sounds really cool and would be a much better career.

Congratulations of your acceptance! Even it is kind of bittersweet.

 

[BombsAway]

Your first mistake here is trusting the military to meet your timeline. It never does.

Long story short, you should find another outlet to relieve your FOMO on youthful adventure before med school. It is uncomfortable to say/hear but you will be of inconsequential service to the military with a year-long adso. Unless you deploy of course. You'll be leaving right about the time you would start becoming useful.

Another thing, no one cool says "hooah". Its cringeworthy.

 

[deleted480308]

If you take mdssp money, you have to take it till the end of med school and you incur a time debt of 2/1 which gets paid off after residency but you drill through school and residency

 

[tradkeke]

Your first mistake here is trusting the military to meet your timeline. It never does.

Long story short, you should find another outlet to relieve your FOMO on youthful adventure before med school. It is uncomfortable to say/hear but you will be of inconsequential service to the military with a year-long adso. Unless you deploy of course. You'll be leaving right about the time you would start becoming useful.

Another thing, no one cool says "hooah". Its cringeworthy.

I would volunteer for deployment, if possible. I don't want to join just to say I served or just as a break. I genuinely want to feel like I, in at least a minute way, gave something back to my country through the military. While I would do it either as enlisted or as a physician, I personally just long for the enlisted experience. I know it's not as nice as the officer experience but I have heard very enlisted few people (and even fewer 68Ws) say they regret their service even if they feel they got screwed over. However, go over to the milmed forums and there is just an overwhelming amount of negative opinions. That's one reason why I want this route, I feel it would be a good experience, I feel I would have a much better experience, and I would just prefer to serve while I'm young and have little responsibilities. Thank you very much for the comment and the life lesson on using "hooah"

If you take mdssp money, you have to take it till the end of med school and you incur a time debt of 2/1 which gets paid off after residency but you drill through school and residency

I was aware of this, so if I was able to do by plan I would have a 8 year obligation if I took it for 4 years. My confusion was if you happened to be aware if I would be able to switch into MDSSP while I still had my Guard obligation of 24 months. This way I would be non-deployable during my schooling.

I was also curious of your opinion on applying to schools knowing you will ask for a deferment. Is this looked down upon? Or could it be an option, would it be something I should bring up at interviews? I feel if I combined these two strategies my plan would work seeing as if I was accepted and granted deferment, regardless of what happens or if they keep me over for a few months I could probably get a pretty easy deferment due to being in military service. Then if I was able to join MDSSP I wouldn't be deployed during school, I was considering MDSSP anyways.

I know I'm extremely over complicating this. It's just what I feel I want to do and would regret not doing. We wouldn't listen to someone that said "become a nurse or a CRNA or a PA, it's so much easier that way". Trying to become a doctor is hard but it's what we want to do so it's worth it. That's how I feel about this, I know it will be hard but it's genuinely just a passion I've had for a long time.

Thanks again.

 

[BC_89]

I would volunteer for deployment, if possible. I don't want to join just to say I served or just as a break. I genuinely want to feel like I, in at least a minute way, gave something back to my country through the military. While I would do it either as enlisted or as a physician, I personally just long for the enlisted experience. I know it's not as nice as the officer experience but I have heard very enlisted few people (and even fewer 68Ws) say they regret their service even if they feel they got screwed over. However, go over to the milmed forums and there is just an overwhelming amount of negative opinions. That's one reason why I want this route, I feel it would be a good experience, I feel I would have a much better experience, and I would just prefer to serve while I'm young and have little responsibilities. Thank you very much for the comment and the life lesson on using "hooah"



I was aware of this, so if I was able to do by plan I would have a 8 year obligation if I took it for 4 years. My confusion was if you happened to be aware if I would be able to switch into MDSSP while I still had my Guard obligation of 24 months. This way I would be non-deployable during my schooling.

I was also curious of your opinion on applying to schools knowing you will ask for a deferment. Is this looked down upon? Or could it be an option, would it be something I should bring up at interviews? I feel if I combined these two strategies my plan would work seeing as if I was accepted and granted deferment, regardless of what happens or if they keep me over for a few months I could probably get a pretty easy deferment due to being in military service. Then if I was able to join MDSSP I wouldn't be deployed during school, I was considering MDSSP anyways.

I know I'm extremely over complicating this. It's just what I feel I want to do and would regret not doing. We wouldn't listen to someone that said "become a nurse or a CRNA or a PA, it's so much easier that way". Trying to become a doctor is hard but it's what we want to do so it's worth it. That's how I feel about this, I know it will be hard but it's genuinely just a passion I've had for a long time.

Thanks again.

 

[BC_89]

....

Mention a possible deferment option at the interview??? Pushing back med school to feel “hooah?” What exactly is hooah for you? I’m currently enlisted AD as an E5 and I gotta say what is it that will make you fulfilled serving enlisted and not as a physician?

Sure, if your unit will let you do ‘air assault’ or ‘airborne’ maybe that’s the fulfillment you want? Or get your Field medical badge with Ruck marches? I’ve participated with “young” physicians who got permission to do it (why they were granted who knows...maybe same reasons as you).

Shake off your itch and fulfill your long term goals as fast as possible...the military will NOT care about your time-lines... unless specific dates down - to - the - hour are in your contract, it doesn’t exist as far as interview dates for med school, when and where you mobilize / immobilize, etc etc.

If your in ANY professional studies (ie med school) you focus 100% on that....your experiences and talents will be better served after your schooling....your not missing any experience worth experiencing with your opportunities ahead of you....relieve your Nitch by memorizing fiddlers green and YouTube how to clean an M16...if I had your opportunity I would easily have done it...Though I’m thankful for my experiences, other unforeseen circumstances placed me where I’m at.

 

[dpmd]

I was in the Army reserve while in med school (enlisted during undergrad and trained as a medic with the added training to become LPN). Meeting drill obligations was not an issue because my unit was willing to work with me (being put on orders for 2 weeks to do clinicals as an alternate to AT, allowing me to miss drill if needed) but they were definitely not required to. And when deployment time came around and they needed to deploy 20 LPNs and there were only 5 in the unit who were actually deployable, the fact that I was in the middle of my third year did not get me anything besides sympathy from my chain of command and assignment to the ICU instead of just the regular ward while on that 14 month deployment. That said there was a lot of good that came out of my service (met my husband, GI bill and tuition assistance was very helpful, turned around my grades, plus a lot of intangibles that are hard to describe) and I don't regret the way things turned out even though I graduated a year late and probably was in a less favorable matching position than I might have been otherwise. If I hadn't been in a position where I felt med school admission was unlikely (due to poor grades) I don't know that I would have ever gone down this route though. Between training and my deployment I certainly missed out on at least 2 yrs of attending income (plus I can't tell you how hard it is to have your classmates graduate and you aren't done yet). You have to decide whether that sacrifice and possibly more is worth it to you to get what you are hoping for (if it even turns out to be what you want, you may just do training and then assist at sick call or something followed by a few years of weekend classes and busy work at your guard unit)