Merger Questions

[HueySmith]

Hi, I came across a survey (NRMP Program Director Survey) that shows the different criteria (ie. USMLE scores, publications, extracurriculars) needed for getting into a specific specialty. In the survey, I came across a graph called "frequency of programs interviewing and reviewing candidates" and saw that most of the highly competitive programs like Dermatology and Orthopedic will SELDOM or NEVER interview an osteopathic medical student. Does this mean any of us DO students who are aspiring to be an ortho surgeon, dermatologists, ENT, or whatever, are going to be SOL after merger completion in 2020?

It seems to me that DO students are only pigeonholed into slightly less compensated specialties when the merger is completed. This is relevant to me because I wanted to move back to Southern California and I have about $430k in loans. I don't want to spend the rest of my life paying off my loans

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[AlteredScale]

Hi, I came across a survey (NRMP Program Director Survey) that shows the different criteria (ie. USMLE scores, publications, extracurriculars) needed for getting into a specific specialty. In the survey, I came across a graph called "frequency of programs interviewing and reviewing candidates" and saw that most of the highly competitive programs like Dermatology and Orthopedic will SELDOM or NEVER interview an osteopathic medical student. Does this mean any of us DO students who are aspiring to be an ortho surgeon, dermatologists, ENT, or whatever, are going to be SOL after merger completion in 2020?

It seems to me that DO students are only pigeonholed into slightly less compensated specialties when the merger is completed. This is relevant to me because I wanted to move back to Southern California and I have about $430k in loans. I don't want to spend the rest of my life paying off my loans

That survey is specific for ACGME (MD) residencies. For the most part, the majority of derm and ortho residencies prior to the merger already chose against interviewing DO applicants. The merger doesn't effect that.

What the merger will do is allow MD applicants to apply to previous AOA derm and ortho programs that once were saved just for DO grads. That obv increases the competition but I think it goes without saying that AOA program directors are not all of a sudden going to just take MD applicants as they are aware of the current situation for those DO students interested in these competitive specialties.

Your best bet is to get good grades, do well on your boards and clinical rotations, and network with the derm/ortho programs at sponsored by your DO school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does this mean any of us DO students who are aspiring to be an ortho surgeon, dermatologists, ENT, or whatever, are going to be SOL after merger completion in 2020?

Frankly, those who were focused on those specialties were SOL before the merger as well. It is still possible (as people match them every year) and all you can do is what AS outlined below and hope for the best and be just a little lucky as well.

Your best bet is to get good grades, do well on your boards and clinical rotations, and network with the derm/ortho programs at sponsored by your DO school.

 

[Goro]

Hi, I came across a survey (NRMP Program Director Survey) that shows the different criteria (ie. USMLE scores, publications, extracurriculars) needed for getting into a specific specialty. In the survey, I came across a graph called "frequency of programs interviewing and reviewing candidates" and saw that most of the highly competitive programs like Dermatology and Orthopedic will SELDOM or NEVER interview an osteopathic medical student. Does this mean any of us DO students who are aspiring to be an ortho surgeon, dermatologists, ENT, or whatever, are going to be SOL after merger completion in 2020?

It seems to me that DO students are only pigeonholed into slightly less compensated specialties when the merger is completed. This is relevant to me because I wanted to move back to Southern California and I have about $430k in loans. I don't want to spend the rest of my life paying off my loans

Pretty much yes, unless you're a superstar. The same holds true to MD grads. Not everyone can simply waltz in Derm or ENT at MGH, or IM at NYU. But it's a given that the PDs there won't outright dismiss an app from an MD, like they would from a DO.

Primary Care is not the 7th circle of Hell, and you can make a decent salary from it. Now, whether or not you may have to practice in Jonesboro, AR, or Hanford, WA, remains to be seen. There are places in the US where every med school graduate would love to go.

Medical education in the US is a constantly evolving process. Historically, DOs have always gravitated to Primary Care...indeed , this is the mission of my school and many others. And MDs have gravitated to the specialties. MUCOM and IU are perfectly happy with this arrangement.

Of my graduates, only ~5% have ever gone into Gen Surg. None have made it into ACGME Ortho, and maybe five ever went into ENT.

I do see a trend in my graduates that they are kicking open doors that were once closed to DOs. Were they Lotto winners? Or trend-setters? I don't know, but it seems that we've been getting more and more Lotto winners over the past few years.

 

[W19]

I am puzzled that OP just learned that as med student... ENT/Ortho/Derm are hard even for MD students from good school.

 

[ZucattiManicotti]

Pretty much yes, unless you're a superstar. The same holds true to MD grads. Not everyone can simply waltz in Derm or ENT at MGH, or IM at NYU. But it's a given that the PDs there won't outright dismiss an app from an MD, like they would from a DO.

Primary Care is not the 7th circle of Hell, and you can make a decent salary from it. Now, whether or not you may have to practice in Jonesboro, AR, or Hanford, WA, remains to be seen. There are places in the US where every med school graduate would love to go.

Medical education in the US is a constantly evolving process. Historically, DOs have always gravitated to Primary Care...indeed , this is the mission of my school and many others. And MDs have gravitated to the specialties. MUCOM and IU are perfectly happy with this arrangement.

Of my graduates, only ~5% have ever gone into Gen Surg. None have made it into ACGME Ortho, and maybe five ever went into ENT.

I do see a trend in my graduates that they are kicking open doors that were once closed to DOs. Were they Lotto winners? Or trend-setters? I don't know, but it seems that we've been getting more and more Lotto winners over the past few years.

Man, as someone who is going to be attending mucom.... I hope I can still become a psychiatrist lol

 

[GUH]

...I think it goes without saying that AOA program directors are not all of a sudden going to just take MD applicants as they are aware of the current situation for those DO students interested in these competitive specialties.

There may be a few who don't, but to imply that this will not significantly impact the chances for a DO attempting to enter these specialties is excessively optimistic.

 

[GUH]

Man, as someone who is going to be attending mucom.... I hope I can still become a psychiatrist lol

Yes. It is becoming more popular but still nowhere near specialties such as derm or ortho.

 

[GUH]

Hi, I came across a survey (NRMP Program Director Survey) that shows the different criteria (ie. USMLE scores, publications, extracurriculars) needed for getting into a specific specialty. In the survey, I came across a graph called "frequency of programs interviewing and reviewing candidates" and saw that most of the highly competitive programs like Dermatology and Orthopedic will SELDOM or NEVER interview an osteopathic medical student. Does this mean any of us DO students who are aspiring to be an ortho surgeon, dermatologists, ENT, or whatever, are going to be SOL after merger completion in 2020?

It seems to me that DO students are only pigeonholed into slightly less compensated specialties when the merger is completed. This is relevant to me because I wanted to move back to Southern California and I have about $430k in loans. I don't want to spend the rest of my life paying off my loans

You can make very good money, even in Southern California, as a DO doing internal medicine if you know the business of medicine.

 

[Goro]

A good OMM practitioner can take in as much money as any plastic surgeon if located in the right area.

All you need in is an OMM table.

 

[AlteredScale]

There may be a few who don't, but to imply that this will not significantly impact the chances for a DO attempting to enter these specialties is excessively optimistic.

The stats over the next few years will tell the story. I never said it wouldn't be hard nor did my statement really insinuate that.


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[AFNI_User]

I think worrying excessively about he future and matching into mega competitive fields can be destructive if you let it bother you too much. Apart from the merger, the recent influx of new osteopathic medical schools is going to add that many more osteopathic students into the AOA match for those coveted ortho, ent, derm spots.

Tldr; lots of students, be the best you can be, get 250+/700+ On boards, you'll be upper class no matter what