Medical student (with DMD) applying to OMFS

[Awarara]

However I do not understand the comments made with regards to licensure in the US. You can be a board certified oral and maxillofacial surgeon with a 4 year degree and you do not need an MD or an internship in Gen Surg. The only downside to being a 4 year OMFS graduate is that some states will not allow you to perform cosmetic procedures unless you have an MD (aka rhinoplasties, malar implants, botox etc...), mind you these are not even the majority of the states. So yeah... Not sure where that licensure comment is coming from.

People are talking about having an American medical license. Since OPs getting an MD in Canada, it would be useless if he didn't become medically licensed in America if he wants to become a dual degree surgeon and do fellowships.

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[Five Yang Yang]

Hi Kevin

Glad to see OMFS is still your original aim.

Just like the others said, your MD will not give you an edge when you apply for OMFS programs in the states, especially having completed the full 4 years after dental school and not the other way around (which is Harshdeep's case). It won't hurt you but it won't be what makes programs eager to take you.

In my humble opinion, if OMFS is your main goal, you should have opted for the internship spot you got. By going through med school you are kind of "leaving the field" a little bit and that is never a good thing in the eyes of program directors.

6 year programs in the US will not accommodate you unfortunately and as a matter of fact you might become a less desirable candidate for them, because they would have to make adjustments to their program in order to take you on, which is not something that any program director wants to have to do. Your best bet will be 4 year programs.

However I do not understand the comments made with regards to licensure in the US. You can be a board certified oral and maxillofacial surgeon with a 4 year degree and you do not need an MD or an internship in Gen Surg. The only downside to being a 4 year OMFS graduate is that some states will not allow you to perform cosmetic procedures unless you have an MD (aka rhinoplasties, malar implants, botox etc...), mind you these are not even the majority of the states. So yeah... Not sure where that licensure comment is coming from.

You can still apply to OMFS after med school, but I think you should prepare for an alternate choice by externing/doing some research and building connections in fields such as ENT and plastics. Just in case you do not get into OMFS, at least you would still be a desirable candidate for those other specialties (and mind you, as a DMD applying into ENT, you are very desirable).

Best of luck buddy, enjoy Quebec city

Hi Sina (sorry if you're not Sina, but he was the first person came to mind)

Thanks for your advice! I understand that the degree itself won't make me more competitive, but I will do my best for the grades during medschool and score higher on CBSE. I will get involved in OMFS research and publication, and do a few additional OMFS externships to stay familiar with oral surgery.

Thank you again for everything! Best luck in residency.

 

[Five Yang Yang]

did you have to apply and interview for medical school while you were in your last year of dental school or is it different for Canadians? interesting stuff

also to go back on your original question. i think moonlighting would be a good way to make extra money if you have time, but it does not affect your application at all.

Thanks for answering my question. Yes I applied and interviewed for medschool in my last year of DMD

 

[Sublimazing]

Thanks for your answers, however you shouldn't presuppose/assume anything.

By the way, I'm still in my junior year in medical school, and I will take my step 1 next year (at the same time of my CBSE). I've started preparing for step 1 and CBSE since my first day in medschool, and I'm confident that it will go well. I took CBSE was done 2y ago, and I got low 70. I'm aiming for high 80 for my CBSE next year, and I believe this is attainable with all the medical knowledge I got in medschool. Again, one of the advantages of choosing medschool option.

I actually feel very lucky to not be matched at first try and have to go to medical school. Let's think about it: if I matched, I'd probably match to a four-year program (because 6y just don't take Canadian, or rarely), and after 4y of residency I still have to go back to medschool for the MD (not even sure if at that time I'd still be competitive enough to get in medschool). Moreover, doing MD first allows me to really discover other surgical specialties. I CAN make the choice, I can choose orthopedic surgery, cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, vascular surgery, general surgery, ENT, plastic, and OMFS. I'm almost sure that 90% of the OMFS applicants choose to apply to OMFS because of the amazing procedures that maxillofacial surgeons can do, because they like surgery and they like to be in OR, and they want to become a SURGEON. If you really like OMFS, big chance that you might like one of the 9 surgical specialties in medicine, even more, right? Unfortunately, as dental graduate we can only put our hope and dream on one of the surgical specialties, OMFS.

Well the bottom line is that your MD is not going to help you get into an OMFS residency. And while upper 70's on the CBSE is competitive for OMFS...you would need to do FAR better on Step 1 in order to secure a spot in ENT or Integrative Plastics in the US.

Again, best of luck to you...if this circuitous and costly route you've chosen makes you happy then good for you. We're just telling you that it was not a good decision if your goal was to match to an OMFS program in the US.

 

[Five Yang Yang]

Well the bottom line is that your MD is not going to help you get into an OMFS residency. And while upper 70's on the CBSE is competitive for OMFS...you would need to do FAR better on Step 1 in order to secure a spot in ENT or Integrative Plastics in the US.

Again, best of luck to you...if this circuitous and costly route you've chosen makes you happy then good for you. We're just telling you that it was not a good decision if your goal was to match to an OMFS program in the US.

Thanks Sublimazing. I don't regret my decision and I will do my best in medical school to become a very good applicant.

 

[PaxRoma]

Having an MD is a big deal, and don't let other people tell you otherwise. Doing a full 4 year of med school will give you a solid medical foundation which is invaluable to your patient care. Do well in med school.

 

[dbgt]

I dont understand why everyone is judging you, getting the MD I can only see making you a stronger candidate. Just because you didnt follow the traditional way does not mean you are a bad candidate. Reading through the thread I can see you have thoroughly thought about all of this. Furthermore achieving what you have achieved is not an easy thing, very few people can presume being in med school at 24 already having a DMD. Very few people get accepted into med school and if you have the money, time and desire to achieve the MD NOW, then why not? Its a degree that you will have for the rest of your life, it can/will only benefit you, open you more doors along the way, give you more opportunities and options.

Also what many here cant comprehend is that foreigners who want to go to US have to work much harder, find ways to stand out from the rest and most of the time the route is just much longer for us.

In many countries in Europe and I believe also in Australia and New Zealand, candidates have to get a degree in dentistry and in medicine first to be able to specialize in OMFS, so it is not weird at all what you are doing. You could potentially also specialize in these countries after getting your MD, so take that into account.

Last I heard, Canada has a reciprocal agreement with New Zealand which in turn has a reciprocal agreement with Ireland and Australia

 

[armorshell]

Hi guys,

I'm currently a medical student in Canada, I've already graduated from dental school (I have DMD degree, passed NBDE step 1 and 2, and wrote CBSE). OMFS has always been the thing I want to do (END and plastic are cool too, but still love OMFS). I would appreciate a lot if some residents/attendings can provide opinions for my case:

1. How would you view an applicant with both DMD and MD degrees? Do you think he might be more competitive with an MD degree, or less competitive (because he didn't practice dentistry for 4 years)?

As you probably noticed from the replies you've received from this thread so far, you're a bit of a weird applicant. Because of that, some programs are going to view your experience as a positive, and some are going to view it as a negative, and some are just not going to know what to do with you.

Hi guys,
2. Along the same lines, would you suggest me to work as a part-time dentist during the remaining of my medical school, to show to the selection committee that I still have my dental knowledge/skills?

If this is possible, it might not be a terrible idea. Externships (or just spending time in the OMS department at your institution, if there is one) are also another way to stay fresh, and having gone through medical school won't absolve you of needing to do these to be a competitive applicant.

Hi guys,
3. If your program is a 6-years track (OMFS/MD), do you think I can still apply to your program and do 4 years instead of 6 (skipping 2 yrs of med school)?

There seems to be a lot of negativity in this thread towards the idea of applying to 6 year programs, but entering with an MD "in-hand" may open up some opportunities at these types of programs. In the US, to obtain a medical license you need at least 1 year of ACGME-accredited residency training, which at most programs comes in the form of a general surgery internship. Many 4 year programs, while they have off-service rotations on general surgery services, may not be equipped to provide a "certified" internship year out of the box, whereas all combined programs should. If programs have lost residents in the middle years, or are considering switching from a 4 year to combined track, you may be a valuable asset.

 

[Five Yang Yang]

As you probably noticed from the replies you've received from this thread so far, you're a bit of a weird applicant. Because of that, some programs are going to view your experience as a positive, and some are going to view it as a negative, and some are just not going to know what to do with you.



If this is possible, it might not be a terrible idea. Externships (or just spending time in the OMS department at your institution, if there is one) are also another way to stay fresh, and having gone through medical school won't absolve you of needing to do these to be a competitive applicant.



There seems to be a lot of negativity in this thread towards the idea of applying to 6 year programs, but entering with an MD "in-hand" may open up some opportunities at these types of programs. In the US, to obtain a medical license you need at least 1 year of ACGME-accredited residency training, which at most programs comes in the form of a general surgery internship. Many 4 year programs, while they have off-service rotations on general surgery services, may not be equipped to provide a "certified" internship year out of the box, whereas all combined programs should. If programs have lost residents in the middle years, or are considering switching from a 4 year to combined track, you may be a valuable asset.

I've already done 5 externships during dental school, and I will try to do 2-3 during medschool. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Five Yang Yang]

I dont understand why everyone is judging you, getting the MD I can only see making you a stronger candidate. Just because you didnt follow the traditional way does not mean you are a bad candidate. Reading through the thread I can see you have thoroughly thought about all of this. Furthermore achieving what you have achieved is not an easy thing, very few people can presume being in med school at 24 already having a DMD. Very few people get accepted into med school and if you have the money, time and desire to achieve the MD NOW, then why not? Its a degree that you will have for the rest of your life, it can/will only benefit you, open you more doors along the way, give you more opportunities and options.

Also what many here cant comprehend is that foreigners who want to go to US have to work much harder, find ways to stand out from the rest and most of the time the route is just much longer for us.

In many countries in Europe and I believe also in Australia and New Zealand, candidates have to get a degree in dentistry and in medicine first to be able to specialize in OMFS, so it is not weird at all what you are doing. You could potentially also specialize in these countries after getting your MD, so take that into account.

Last I heard, Canada has a reciprocal agreement with New Zealand which in turn has a reciprocal agreement with Ireland and Australia

I think I prefer to stay in Canada or US to practice, but its good to know! Thank you for your encouragement.