Medical student (with DMD) applying to OMFS

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Five Yang Yang

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
31
Reaction score
3
Hi guys,

I'm currently a medical student in Canada, I've already graduated from dental school (I have DMD degree, passed NBDE step 1 and 2, and wrote CBSE). OMFS has always been the thing I want to do (END and plastic are cool too, but still love OMFS). I would appreciate a lot if some residents/attendings can provide opinions for my case:

1. How would you view an applicant with both DMD and MD degrees? Do you think he might be more competitive with an MD degree, or less competitive (because he didn't practice dentistry for 4 years)?

2. Along the same lines, would you suggest me to work as a part-time dentist during the remaining of my medical school, to show to the selection committee that I still have my dental knowledge/skills?

3. If your program is a 6-years track (OMFS/MD), do you think I can still apply to your program and do 4 years instead of 6 (skipping 2 yrs of med school)?

Thank you for your time.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It sounds to me like you more likely have no idea what you want up do with your life.

I know exactly what I want and I'm very glad to have the opportunity to discover other medical specialties and make sure that OMFS is really what I want. Moreover I have no debt because Canadian dental and medical schools are very cheap and I got many scholarship. Btw, I'm 24 years old :)

I would appreciate a lot if you or someone in OMFS program could give me constructive suggestion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Call the programs directly and ask. Few if any OMFS directors post here.
 
Doubt the 6 year programs are going to do anything for you since the programs are set up in a way where they plan on having residents on/off service at specific times during those years; you doing 4 years would change all of that and make things difficult for them.

Your best chance is by doing a 4 year track. Nobody will care that you are "staying up with dental skills" considering most of those skills like filling teeth and doing RCTs are a total waste of your time anyways and don't help you in OMFS. You could just extract teeth and do surgical stuff to stay up with things, but good luck finding a job like that when you don't really know how to do that stuff proficiently (3rds, infections, pathology) after coming right out of dental school anyways.

I am also very confused as to why you did dentistry and now are in medicine. Just do plastics or ENT, you can still do some of the same stuff minus the dental parts.
 
Doubt the 6 year programs are going to do anything for you since the programs are set up in a way where they plan on having residents on/off service at specific times during those years; you doing 4 years would change all of that and make things difficult for them.

Your best chance is by doing a 4 year track. Nobody will care that you are "staying up with dental skills" considering most of those skills like filling teeth and doing RCTs are a total waste of your time anyways and don't help you in OMFS. You could just extract teeth and do surgical stuff to stay up with things, but good luck finding a job like that when you don't really know how to do that stuff proficiently (3rds, infections, pathology) after coming right out of dental school anyways.

I am also very confused as to why you did dentistry and now are in medicine. Just do plastics or ENT, you can still do some of the same stuff minus the dental parts.

Thank you for your reply.

END and plastic are good, but I still want to do some dentoalveolar (especially when I'm getting old lol)
 
Wait... Let me get this straight. Did you do 4 year dental school and then got into med school?? And now you are completing a 4 year med school?!!! Wow... I'm not sure if all those degrees are necessary... Maybe you should get a Ph.D. too haha.

In all seriousness, however, you seem like someone who would be a pretty good applicant, I guess. Definitely call OMFS programs you are interested in - they will have more in-depth and specific info that you want.

EDIT: To answer one of you questions (#2), I personally think it would be extremely hard to complete medical school and simultaneously work part time as a dentist. If you were completing a masters degree or bachelor's degree, I would probably say to consider, but due to the sheer rigorous nature of med school, I can't imagine anyone keeping up a GPA more than 3.5. Just my thoughts though. Some people are just insanely smart and can do it haha.

And I also want to ask why you put yourself through medical school after completing dental school? How far are you into med school? Above you said you were 24 and the most plausible thing I can come up with is that you somehow completed a bachelor's degree in 2 years doing like 20 credits in a semester somehow, getting into dental school in Canada (which are already VERY competitive) somehow keeping up with the speed and demands of dental school and preparing for MCAT, completing MCAT and getting into a Canadian med school and you will be starting this fall. Wow...

However, Best of luck!

-Fyz
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wait... Let me get this straight. Did you do 4 year dental school and then got into med school?? And now you are completing a 4 year med school?!!! Wow... I'm not sure if all those degrees are necessary... Maybe you should get a Ph.D. too haha.

In all seriousness, however, you seem like someone who would be a pretty good applicant, I guess. Definitely call OMFS programs you are interested in - they will have more in-depth and specific info that you want.

EDIT: To answer one of you questions (#2), I personally think it would be extremely hard to complete medical school and simultaneously work part time as a dentist. If you were completing a masters degree or bachelor's degree, I would probably say to consider, but due to the sheer rigorous nature of med school, I can't imagine anyone keeping up a GPA more than 3.5. Just my thoughts though. Some people are just insanely smart and can do it haha.

And I also want to ask why you put yourself through medical school after completing dental school? How far are you into med school? Above you said you were 24 and the most plausible thing I can come up with is that you somehow completed a bachelor's degree in 2 years doing like 20 credits in a semester somehow, getting into dental school in Canada (which are already VERY competitive) somehow keeping up with the speed and demands of dental school and preparing for MCAT, completing MCAT and getting into a Canadian med school and you will be starting this fall. Wow...

However, Best of luck!

-Fyz

Hi Fyz,

Thank you for your post.

Actually I don't have a Bachelor degree, in some province of Canada we have different system: after high school, we can do two years of colleges, and get in an "accelerated pathway" (1 yr of preparatory year + 4 yrs of dentistry). However most of pp have to go through Bachelor and then apply to dentistry. I was lucky to get in earlier.

And yes during dental school, I've really worked as hard as I can...serious studying for 5 years straight, you can imagine the pain.

Thank you for your encouragement, I will definitely call the programs to ask. Good luck to you too.
 
Hi Fyz,

Thank you for your post.

Actually I don't have a Bachelor degree, in some province of Canada we have different system: after high school, we can do two years of colleges, and get in an "accelerated pathway" (1 yr of preparatory year + 4 yrs of dentistry). However most of pp have to go through Bachelor and then apply to dentistry. I was lucky to get in earlier.

And yes during dental school, I've really worked as hard as I can...serious studying for 5 years straight, you can imagine the pain.

Thank you for your encouragement, I will definitely call the programs to ask. Good luck to you too.

But could I ask you why you are now doing medical school? You already have a DMD and that would be very sufficient for getting into oral surgery residency. To me (and this is not to be taken with any offense - just voicing my thoughts) it sounds like you are fishing for titles. I would get it if you figured out that you don't like dentistry and would rather pursue a career in medicine, but in that case wouldn't you just drop dental school half way through or whenever you figured dentistry wasn't for you? I have never come across a person who completes a DMD degree and a 4 year MD degree... It just sounds a little bizarre.. There has to be some sort of logical explanation - could you shed some light?

Thanks!

-Fyz
 
But could I ask you why you are now doing medical school? You already have a DMD and that would be very sufficient for getting into oral surgery residency. To me (and this is not to be taken with any offense - just voicing my thoughts) it sounds like you are fishing for titles. I would get it if you figured out that you don't like dentistry and would rather pursue a career in medicine, but in that case wouldn't you just drop dental school half way through or whenever you figured dentistry wasn't for you? I have never come across a person who completes a DMD degree and a 4 year MD degree... It just sounds a little bizarre.. There has to be some sort of logical explanation - could you shed some light?

Thanks!

-Fyz

Your question is legitimate.

Well rather than saying fishing for titles, I'm actually big on the MD, because my professional goal is to become full-time attending in hospital/academic setting. MD will help me get in fellowship and therefore get a acaademic position in hospital.

Now why I didn't go to OMFS after dent? When I finished DMD I only got in an OMFS internship program (I didn't match to any OMFS/MD program). As Canadian citizen, we aren't eligible for more of OMFS/MD 6yrs programs, because most of the medical schools only takes US citizen. The OMFS/MD in Canada all require you to have at least one year of GPR/AEGD, and I don't really want to do general dentistry again. So I chose medical school, 4 yrs of medical school are really not bad at all considering my age and the tuition in Canada, moreover it will give me more confidence to tackle the CBSE again. I did the calculation: if I don'T do med, it will be 1yr of internship + 6 yrs of residency (MD/OMFS), 7 yrs total. If med, will be 4yrs of med + 4 yrs of residency (OMFS alone), 8 years total. The difference of one year really not bother me too much, considering that there is a garantie MD. Moreover, I get the opportunity to discover other surgical specialties, and make sure that OMFS is really what I want.

Hope this clarify.
 
That logic is sound from my standpoint, can't blame you when you look at things the way you described. You're young, you still have the stamina to go through more institutionalized education, but doing Year 1 of med must have been annoying/boring as sh**. Do you guys in Canada have a lot of 4 year OMFS programs?
 
What SPECIFICALLY about OMFS attracts you that you couldn't do if you went ENT, did a much less competitive and shorter dental specialty, or just practiced as a general dentist?

ENT does 90% of what OMFS do in the operating room.
Periodontists and General Dentists do 100% of what OMFS do in the office

So what am I missing here? And why would someone in full time medical school worry about the CBSE? I don't believe someone who matriculated into Dental School and Medical School would have any problem getting a 70+ on the CBSE with the didactics and dedicated study time med students get for the harder version of that same test.

I think periodontists and general dentist do more like 90% of what oral surgeons do. They can't do things like orthognathic surgery (jaw surgery) and a number of other surgical procedures. Haha I don't mean to be a smart Alec, but just wanted to clarify.

-Fyz
 
Your question is legitimate.

Well rather than saying fishing for titles, I'm actually big on the MD, because my professional goal is to become full-time attending in hospital/academic setting. MD will help me get in fellowship and therefore get a acaademic position in hospital.

Now why I didn't go to OMFS after dent? When I finished DMD I only got in an OMFS internship program (I didn't match to any OMFS/MD program). As Canadian citizen, we aren't eligible for more of OMFS/MD 6yrs programs, because most of the medical schools only takes US citizen. The OMFS/MD in Canada all require you to have at least one year of GPR/AEGD, and I don't really want to do general dentistry again. So I chose medical school, 4 yrs of medical school are really not bad at all considering my age and the tuition in Canada, moreover it will give me more confidence to tackle the CBSE again. I did the calculation: if I don'T do med, it will be 1yr of internship + 6 yrs of residency (MD/OMFS), 7 yrs total. If med, will be 4yrs of med + 4 yrs of residency (OMFS alone), 8 years total. The difference of one year really not bother me too much, considering that there is a garantie MD. Moreover, I get the opportunity to discover other surgical specialties, and make sure that OMFS is really what I want.

Hope this clarify.

Ah makes much more sense now. Enjoy the rest of med school and residency haha

Best of luck,
Fyz
 
Members don't see this ad :)
What SPECIFICALLY about OMFS attracts you that you couldn't do if you went ENT, did a much less competitive and shorter dental specialty, or just practiced as a general dentist?

ENT does 90% of what OMFS do in the operating room.
Periodontists and General Dentists do 100% of what OMFS do in the office

So what am I missing here? And why would someone in full time medical school worry about the CBSE? I don't believe someone who matriculated into Dental School and Medical School would have any problem getting a 70+ on the CBSE with the didactics and dedicated study time med students get for the harder version of that same test.

Canadian medical schools do not teach to Step 1. They have to do a lot of self study since the curriculum does not overlap a lot with that of US medical schools.
 
That logic is sound from my standpoint, can't blame you when you look at things the way you described. You're young, you still have the stamina to go through more institutionalized education, but doing Year 1 of med must have been annoying/boring as sh**. Do you guys in Canada have a lot of 4 year OMFS programs?

I wouldn't say it will be boring, but going back to basic is never a bad thing.

Yeah, only one program offering 4-yrs track.
 
I think periodontists and general dentist do more like 90% of what oral surgeons do. They can't do things like orthognathic surgery (jaw surgery) and a number of other surgical procedures. Haha I don't mean to be a smart Alec, but just wanted to clarify.

-Fyz

You're just an Alec...read what I wrote again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
What SPECIFICALLY about OMFS attracts you that you couldn't do if you went ENT, did a much less competitive and shorter dental specialty, or just practiced as a general dentist?

ENT does 90% of what OMFS do in the operating room.
Periodontists and General Dentists do 100% of what OMFS do in the office

So what am I missing here? And why would someone in full time medical school worry about the CBSE? I don't believe someone who matriculated into Dental School and Medical School would have any problem getting a 70+ on the CBSE with the didactics and dedicated study time med students get for the harder version of that same test.


Interesting to know that periodontists and GP can do 100% of OMFS in the office. I didn't know that they can do IV mod to deep sedation for 3rd molars, and treating difficult class IIIC distal angulated impacted molar.

And yeah and ENT can do 90% of what OMFS can do in OR? Can ENT do all the Lefort and BSSO, and TMJ surgery and jaw pathology like KOT and amelo?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting to know that periodontists and GP can do 100% of OMFS in the office. I didn't know that they can do IV mod to deep sedation for 3rd molars, and treating difficult class IIIC distal angulated impacted molar.

And yeah and ENT can do 90% of what OMFS can do in OR? Can ENT do all the Lefort and BSSO, and TMJ surgery and jaw pathology like KOT and amelo?

GPs can and do take out any tooth they want...and anyone with a DDS/DMD can get a sedation license my guy

In office TMJ management can be performed by any GP (it's a reach on an arthrocentesis...but there are definitely GPs and Chronic Pain Dentists doing them). OMFS do own operative TMJ management...but not many OMFS do the big TMJ procedures.

ENT can do any Benign or Malginant Path....Plastics do LeForts and BSSOs

So again...what specifically does OMFS offer you?
 
[QUOTE="Five Yang Yang, post: 19113367, member: 578766]
And yeah and ENT can do 90% of what OMFS can do in OR? Can ENT do all the Lefort and BSSO, and TMJ surgery and jaw pathology like KOT and amelo?[/QUOTE]

They do a ton of jaw pathology.
 
GPs can and do take out any tooth they want...and anyone with a DDS/DMD can get a sedation license my guy

In office TMJ management can be performed by any GP (it's a reach on an arthrocentesis...but there are definitely GPs and Chronic Pain Dentists doing them). OMFS do own operative TMJ management...but not many OMFS do the big TMJ procedures.

ENT can do any Benign or Malginant Path....Plastics do LeForts and BSSOs

So again...what specifically does OMFS offer you?


From what I've seen, GP can only do conservative management of TMJ, most if not all of the surgical management still go to OMFS.

With all my respect to plastics, I've never seen a plastic doing orthognathic in my area. They don't know everything about occlusion/teeth and wouldn be difficult to work with orthodontists. However I really respect plastics for all the other amazing procedures that they can do.

And ENT...well, ENT has three holes, while OMFS has one hole to worry about, less headache, more satisfaction. This is just me, you might like ENT more, everyone is different.

Sublimazing are you an OMFS resident?
 
You are in an odd place. You graduated from a Canadian dental school, which will make it harder for you to secure a residency spot...whether it is a 6 year or a 4 year spot. I dunno if having an MD puts you at a "higher" place. You may have to do an internship for a year..but I dunno if you are really up for that. A lot of the Canadians I met during interviews last year did not match. So..sometimes it does not really come down to qualification but your citizenship. Unless, of course you are a dual citizen..this does not apply to you.
 
You are in an odd place. You graduated from a Canadian dental school, which will make it harder for you to secure a residency spot...whether it is a 6 year or a 4 year spot. I dunno if having an MD puts you at a "higher" place. You may have to do an internship for a year..but I dunno if you are really up for that. A lot of the Canadians I met during interviews last year did not match. So..sometimes it does not really come down to qualification but your citizenship. Unless, of course you are a dual citizen..this does not apply to you.


Thank you very much for your honest opinion, I really appreciate it.

I'm doing my best in medschool, trying to get the highest marks, CBSE and as much publications as possible.

May I ask, are you an OMFS resident? I see that you're from Toronto
 
From what I've seen, GP can only do conservative management of TMJ, most if not all of the surgical management still go to OMFS.

With all my respect to plastics, I've never seen a plastic doing orthognathic in my area. They don't know everything about occlusion/teeth and wouldn be difficult to work with orthodontists. However I really respect plastics for all the other amazing procedures that they can do.

And ENT...well, ENT has three holes, while OMFS has one hole to worry about, less headache, more satisfaction. This is just me, you might like ENT more, everyone is different.

Sublimazing are you an OMFS resident?

Why do you think having a medical degree would give you an advantage at either a 4 or 6 year program?
And if your goal is OMFS why didn't you just do a prelim/non-categorical year?
 
Why do you think having a medical degree would give you an advantage at either a 4 or 6 year program?
And if your goal is OMFS why didn't you just do a prelim/non-categorical year?

Sublimazing...please read my initial post carefully :p . I asked the question: "1. How would you view an applicant with both DMD and MD degrees? Do you think he might be more competitive with an MD degree, or less competitive (because he didn't practice dentistry for 4 years)? "

If I take time to ask that question, it means I'm not thinking that MD would give me advantage to enter OMFS. Okay, maybe I "tend" to think that MD would give me a little tiny advantage, but this is just from an anecdote. Actually during my dental school, we have a classmate who already has his MD, he came to dental school for OMFS. He wasn't the top of class, no dean's list. He is EXTREMELY competitive. He got many interviews (and he is not US citizen), and he matched to one of the best OMFS programs in US (not going to mention which program, for the purpose of confidentiality). However he've already got accepted to 2 OMFS programs in Canada and decided to decline the offer in US.

I declined several internship offers at the end of my dental school. I saw many OMFS interns during my interview trip, some of them have already done 2 or 3 internships and still struggle to match (mostly Canadians).
 
are you saying you didn't match this year so you went straight into medical school? how does that even work?
 
You are in an odd place. You graduated from a Canadian dental school, which will make it harder for you to secure a residency spot...whether it is a 6 year or a 4 year spot. I dunno if having an MD puts you at a "higher" place. You may have to do an internship for a year..but I dunno if you are really up for that. A lot of the Canadians I met during interviews last year did not match. So..sometimes it does not really come down to qualification but your citizenship. Unless, of course you are a dual citizen..this does not apply to you.
If you don't mind me asking, were you able to match or are you applying again this year ?
 
Just like everyone on this board, I'm confused by your choices. The two most influential criteria for getting you a spot at an OMFS program are high CBSE scores and Prelim Internships...not a previously acquired MD pursued for reasons that you've failed to make clear to anyone. Honestly, it looks like you did dental school, hated dentistry and attempted to leave the field...your trouble with the CBSE indicates that you have/had a very poor chance of matching the 2 most competitive medical specialties in the US (ENT followed by Integrated Plastics) that may have interested you...and have now decided to settle back on OMFS.


Good luck man. If you came here expecting to hear "your MD will guarantee you a spot" then I'm sorry because that is far from a certainty.



Thanks for your answers, however you shouldn't presuppose/assume anything.

By the way, I'm still in my junior year in medical school, and I will take my step 1 next year (at the same time of my CBSE). I've started preparing for step 1 and CBSE since my first day in medschool, and I'm confident that it will go well. I took CBSE was done 2y ago, and I got low 70. I'm aiming for high 80 for my CBSE next year, and I believe this is attainable with all the medical knowledge I got in medschool. Again, one of the advantages of choosing medschool option.

I actually feel very lucky to not be matched at first try and have to go to medical school. Let's think about it: if I matched, I'd probably match to a four-year program (because 6y just don't take Canadian, or rarely), and after 4y of residency I still have to go back to medschool for the MD (not even sure if at that time I'd still be competitive enough to get in medschool). Moreover, doing MD first allows me to really discover other surgical specialties. I CAN make the choice, I can choose orthopedic surgery, cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, vascular surgery, general surgery, ENT, plastic, and OMFS. I'm almost sure that 90% of the OMFS applicants choose to apply to OMFS because of the amazing procedures that maxillofacial surgeons can do, because they like surgery and they like to be in OR, and they want to become a SURGEON. If you really like OMFS, big chance that you might like one of the 9 surgical specialties in medicine, even more, right? Unfortunately, as dental graduate we can only put our hope and dream on one of the surgical specialties, OMFS.
 
Hi. I'm a Canadian graduate in a 6 year program in the US. I don't think having the MD will put you at a disadvantage before applying to 4 year programs, but I don't think it will help you either. It's all predicated by your CBSE (which, if you scored in the low 70s, is high enough for any 6 year program in the US). The downside with attending a 4 year program is you will not have completed an ACGME-accredited general surgery internship year, and so will not be eligible for US licensure.

You're young and certainly have options. If you go through med school and want to do something other than OMFS that's certainly your prerogative. In an ideal world, those would have been choices you should have made before you attended professional school in the first place though...
 
Thanks for your answers, however you shouldn't presuppose/assume anything.

By the way, I'm still in my junior year in medical school, and I will take my step 1 next year (at the same time of my CBSE). I've started preparing for step 1 and CBSE since my first day in medschool, and I'm confident that it will go well. I took CBSE was done 2y ago, and I got low 70. I'm aiming for high 80 for my CBSE next year, and I believe this is attainable with all the medical knowledge I got in medschool. Again, one of the advantages of choosing medschool option.

I actually feel very lucky to not be matched at first try and have to go to medical school. Let's think about it: if I matched, I'd probably match to a four-year program (because 6y just don't take Canadian, or rarely), and after 4y of residency I still have to go back to medschool for the MD (not even sure if at that time I'd still be competitive enough to get in medschool). Moreover, doing MD first allows me to really discover other surgical specialties. I CAN make the choice, I can choose orthopedic surgery, cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, vascular surgery, general surgery, ENT, plastic, and OMFS. I'm almost sure that 90% of the OMFS applicants choose to apply to OMFS because of the amazing procedures that maxillofacial surgeons can do, because they like surgery and they like to be in OR, and they want to become a SURGEON. If you really like OMFS, big chance that you might like one of the 9 surgical specialties in medicine, even more, right? Unfortunately, as dental graduate we can only put our hope and dream on one of the surgical specialties, OMFS.

What was your class rank in dental school? Also, anecdotally you can still pursue a fellowship with a 4 year OMFS track. A 6 year track is not absolutely necessary.
 
Hi. I'm a Canadian graduate in a 6 year program in the US. I don't think having the MD will put you at a disadvantage before applying to 4 year programs, but I don't think it will help you either. It's all predicated by your CBSE (which, if you scored in the low 70s, is high enough for any 6 year program in the US). The downside with attending a 4 year program is you will not have completed an ACGME-accredited general surgery internship year, and so will not be eligible for US licensure.

You're young and certainly have options. If you go through med school and want to do something other than OMFS that's certainly your prerogative. In an ideal world, those would have been choices you should have made before you attended professional school in the first place though...

Hi Mike, thanks for the info. And congratulation for the 6yrs program as a Canadian! You must be extremely smart and hardworking.

What is the advantage of having the general surgery internship year? And which US licensure were you talking about (the licensure for OMFS, or for general surgery)?
 
What was your class rank in dental school? Also, anecdotally you can still pursue a fellowship with a 4 year OMFS track. A 6 year track is not absolutely necessary.

Our dental school doesn't rank students, but I graduated with distinction (top 25%).

Yes it is possible to pursue a fellowship without MD, however it's much more difficult. It seems that most of the fellowship positions require you to have a MD. Also my professional goal is to become attending in a hospital where I can do some research and teach residents, and I think MD will help me going through the process.
 
Our dental school doesn't rank students, but I graduated with distinction (top 25%).

Yes it is possible to pursue a fellowship without MD, however it's much more difficult. It seems that most of the fellowship positions require you to have a MD. Also my professional goal is to become attending in a hospital where I can do some research and teach residents, and I think MD will help me going through the process.

Where can I get info with regards to difficulty of pursuing a fellowship without the MD degree? Thanks.
 
My source comes from my research mentor who is the Chairman of OMFS in our hospital. You can also do a quick search on studentdoctor (might not be the most reliable). The most reliable person to answer your question is probably the OMFS resident michaelkim888 upstairs.
 
Where can I get info with regards to difficulty of pursuing a fellowship without the MD degree? Thanks.

My source comes from my research mentor who is the Chairman of OMFS in our hospital. You can also do a quick search on studentdoctor (might not be the most reliable). The most reliable person to answer your question is probably the OMFS resident michaelkim888 upstairs.
 
Hi Mike, thanks for the info. And congratulation for the 6yrs program as a Canadian! You must be extremely smart and hardworking.

What is the advantage of having the general surgery internship year? And which US licensure were you talking about (the licensure for OMFS, or for general surgery)?

I'm talking about obtaining a US medical license.
 
I'm talking about obtaining a US medical license.

Good point. Without US medical licensure, my MD will have no value in US...

I'm thinking of doing a general surgery preliminary internship before or after 4 years of OMFS, to be eligible for licensure. But yeah this is one additional year of training.
 
did you not match into oms and then go straight into med school?

you made a bad choice going to med school with your reasoning that you need an MD to be an attending or to do fellowships, which is absolutely not the case. you do not need an md to be an attending. having an md for certain fellowships at certain programs will be beneficial, but there are still fellowships non-mds can do. you seem so caught up on doing a fellowship, what fellowships are you actually interested in?

you said you value your md so much, you're going to have to do an internship to get licensed? you're going to apply for a preliminary internship first, and then during your gen surg intern year, you're going to apply for and interview at oms programs? sounds ridiculous lol

you're going to have to really practice your interview skills when you interview at four year programs. they are going to go after you hard for not doing a noncat year and going into medical school instead. you're going to have a very strong argument of choosing to go to medical school. "i want to be an attending and i want to do a fellowship" is pretty weak and some programs will be insulted if you say that.
 
Last edited:
Why not just apply to ENT at this point. Then go on to do a head and neck or plastics fellowship.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
did you not match into oms and then go straight into med school?

you made a bad choice going to med school with your reasoning that you need an MD to be an attending or to do fellowships, which is absolutely not the case. you do not need an md to be an attending. having an md for certain fellowships at certain programs will be beneficial, but there are still fellowships non-mds can do. you seem so caught up on doing a fellowship, what fellowships are you actually interested in?

you said you value your md so much, you're going to have to do an internship to get licensed? you're going to apply for a preliminary internship first, and then during your gen surg intern year, you're going to apply for and interview at oms programs? sounds ridiculous lol

you're going to have to really practice your interview skills when you interview at four year programs. they are going to go after you hard for not doing a noncat year and going into medical school instead. you're going to have a very strong argument of choosing to go to medical school. "i want to be an attending and i want to do a fellowship" is pretty weak and some programs will be insulted if you say that.

Please read carefully the post that I wrote above. You will understand why I chose to go to medicine over omfs internship. I'm not saying that med is def better than internship, I'm not trying to convince pp to go to med instead of internship, but I believe it'S case by case. For my case, it was more advantageous due to the reasons mentionned above. No need for me to repeat. And the purpose of this thread is to answer my questions, rather than focus MD OMFS vs. non-MD OMFS, or Medschool vs. internship. If you want to read more about MD vs non-MD, you can do a quick search by typing "OMFS 4yrs vs 6 yrs".

By the way I've never said that you need an MD to be an attending or to do fellowships. Here is exactly word by word of what I said: "Yes it is possible to pursue a fellowship without MD, however it's much more difficult. It seems that most of the fellowship positions require you to have a MD. Also my professional goal is to become attending in a hospital where I can do some research and teach residents, and I think MD will help me going through the process."
 
I might consider this as well.

To be honest, if your trying to be an academic guru and work in a hospital setting, you'll actually be better off as an ENT head and neck or plastics over omfs. OS may be Creme de la creme in the private practice dental world, but it's not the same inside a hospital setting.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
To be honest, if your trying to be an academic guru and work in a hospital setting, you'll actually be better off as an ENT head and neck or plastics over omfs. OS may be Creme de la creme in the private practice dental world, but it's not the same inside a hospital setting.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Is it because there is less attendings positions for OMFS in hospitals? Or just because OMFS has less respect in hospital? Here in our hospital OMFS do tons of stuffs, they get all the maxillofacial trauma, cancer and reconstruction cases (resecting tumors, take free flap from fibula, and reconstruct the mandible by themselves). Well things might be different in other hospitals.
 
1. Less competitive
2. Doesn't matter
3. Shouldn't you have known this before starting med school?

Did you go straight into med school after dental school?
 
Last edited:
Hi OP,

I'm not trying to call you out, but can you clarify some things? I'm having a hard time understanding your situation.

- Did you start dental school 1 year out of high school? I know of only 1 program that will get someone their DDS/DMD 5 years out of high school and it is in the U.S.
- How are you a junior in medical school, but are taking Step 1 next year? Shouldn't you have taken it by now?
- How have you managed to complete prerequisites, dental school, and half of medical school at 24?
- Did you take CBSE and MCAT at the same time? And did you apply for OMFS and medical school at the same time? And you were interviewing for residency and med school at the same time? All during dental school?
- You managed to get into both dental school and medical school with only 1 year of undergraduate studies?

Again, I'm not calling you out or trying to discredit you. I am legitimately unclear as to how you are in the situation you are in. This is not something I have ever heard of, so please excuse my ignorance.

Thanks.
 
Hi OP,

I'm not trying to call you out, but can you clarify some things? I'm having a hard time understanding your situation.

- Did you start dental school 1 year out of high school? I know of only 1 program that will get someone their DDS/DMD 5 years out of high school and it is in the U.S.
- How are you a junior in medical school, but are taking Step 1 next year? Shouldn't you have taken it by now?
- How have you managed to complete prerequisites, dental school, and half of medical school at 24?
- Did you take CBSE and MCAT at the same time? And did you apply for OMFS and medical school at the same time? And you were interviewing for residency and med school at the same time? All during dental school?
- You managed to get into both dental school and medical school with only 1 year of undergraduate studies?

Again, I'm not calling you out or trying to discredit you. I am legitimately unclear as to how you are in the situation you are in. This is not something I have ever heard of, so please excuse my ignorance.

Thanks.

In Quebec you can get accepted into dental/medical school out of "CEGEP" which is the equivalent of grade 12-13. If you follow this route, med/dent school is 5 years. It's pretty competitive to get in this way. You end up finishing up your studies by the time you're 24 usually. I'm assuming OP completed his dentistry this way, then applied for straight medical school so that he'll finish by the time he's 27-28.

There's no MCAT in Quebec medical schools anymore, and Step 1 is not really a requirement though many take it to potentially apply for medical residencies or fellowships down the line.
 
In Quebec you can get accepted into dental/medical school out of "CEGEP" which is the equivalent of grade 12-13. If you follow this route, med/dent school is 5 years. It's pretty competitive to get in this way. You end up finishing up your studies by the time you're 24 usually. I'm assuming OP completed his dentistry this way, then applied for straight medical school so that he'll finish by the time he's 27-28.

There's no MCAT in Quebec medical schools anymore, and Step 1 is not really a requirement though many take it to potentially apply for medical residencies or fellowships down the line.

Michael thank you for answering, you're 100% right. I'm a Quebec resident and we don't need MCAT for med and DAT for dent. Also we don't need BSc to get in med/dental schools, however we had to do a preparatory year prior to the 4yrs DMD or MD program.
 
1. Less competitive
2. Doesn't matter
3. Shouldn't you have known this before starting med school?

Did you go straight into med school after dental school?


Thanks for answering. Yes I got in med right after dent.
 
In Quebec you can get accepted into dental/medical school out of "CEGEP" which is the equivalent of grade 12-13. If you follow this route, med/dent school is 5 years. It's pretty competitive to get in this way. You end up finishing up your studies by the time you're 24 usually. I'm assuming OP completed his dentistry this way, then applied for straight medical school so that he'll finish by the time he's 27-28.

There's no MCAT in Quebec medical schools anymore, and Step 1 is not really a requirement though many take it to potentially apply for medical residencies or fellowships down the line.

Michael, I have a question for you: in most of the 6yrs OMFS/MD programs, you guys are doing 2 yrs of medicine (starting from clerkship) + 1 yr of general surgery internship. That's already 3 yrs, so you only have 3 yrs left for OMFS stuffs. How are you guys able to do everything that the 4yrs OMFS programs usually do in their 4 yrs curriculum (OMFS service, OMFS-related rotation like anesthesia, plastic and ENT, etc.)? And I know some programs even add MSc, so OMFS/MD/MSc in 6 yrs. You guys must have a super busy schedule...
 
Hi Kevin :p

Glad to see OMFS is still your original aim.

Just like the others said, your MD will not give you an edge when you apply for OMFS programs in the states, especially having completed the full 4 years after dental school and not the other way around (which is Harshdeep's case). It won't hurt you but it won't be what makes programs eager to take you.

In my humble opinion, if OMFS is your main goal, you should have opted for the internship spot you got. By going through med school you are kind of "leaving the field" a little bit and that is never a good thing in the eyes of program directors.

6 year programs in the US will not accommodate you unfortunately and as a matter of fact you might become a less desirable candidate for them, because they would have to make adjustments to their program in order to take you on, which is not something that any program director wants to have to do. Your best bet will be 4 year programs.

However I do not understand the comments made with regards to licensure in the US. You can be a board certified oral and maxillofacial surgeon with a 4 year degree and you do not need an MD or an internship in Gen Surg. The only downside to being a 4 year OMFS graduate is that some states will not allow you to perform cosmetic procedures unless you have an MD (aka rhinoplasties, malar implants, botox etc...), mind you these are not even the majority of the states. So yeah... Not sure where that licensure comment is coming from.

You can still apply to OMFS after med school, but I think you should prepare for an alternate choice by externing/doing some research and building connections in fields such as ENT and plastics. Just in case you do not get into OMFS, at least you would still be a desirable candidate for those other specialties (and mind you, as a DMD applying into ENT, you are very desirable).

Best of luck buddy, enjoy Quebec city ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Thanks for answering. Yes I got in med right after dent.

did you have to apply and interview for medical school while you were in your last year of dental school or is it different for Canadians? interesting stuff

also to go back on your original question. i think moonlighting would be a good way to make extra money if you have time, but it does not affect your application at all.
 
Last edited:
Top