MDSSP & STRAP combined and service commitment?

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J ROD

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I have been researching this topic this afternoon since it looks like the ASR program is going away in the National Guard.

I found a document that says that if you do both (MDSSP & STRAP) you only have a 1:1 ratio to payback instead of the 2:1.

What I am confused about is what exactly is the service commitment then?

Let's say I take 8yrs of med school and residency....

Will I owe 16 total yrs back....those 8 yrs and the basic mandatory 8 yrs for signing up?

I know the ASR was just 8yrs period and I could take advantage of the scholarships and retention bonus.

I would appreciate any clarification....I am trying to figure all this out...:eek:

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J DUB:

There's a lot of confusion about payback with MDSSP, STRAP and MDSSP + STRAP. Let me clarify things here and then will answer your questions...

MDSSP-
  • $1992/month while in med school. You are exempt from mobilization while in medical school.
  • 2:1 obligation (every 1 year of benefits = 2 years of drilling obligation).
  • You must be enrolled in this program as you graduate (in other words, if you want MDSSP for three years, you need to take it MS II-IV).
  • You begin payback when you start residency (e.g.: Take MS II-IV, you owe six years drilling, which will finish six years after graduating medical school).

STRAP-
  • $1992/month while in residency. You are exempt from mobilization while in residency.
  • 2:1 obligation (every 1 year of benefits = 2 years of drilling obligation).
  • You begin payback when you finish residency (e.g.: Take PGY I-III, you owe six years drilling, which will finish six years after finishing residency.

MDSSP and STRAP Payback

If you take MDSSP for four years, say, you'll owe eight years payback, starting after graduating med school. But if you start residency and take STRAP, they change your MDSSP to 1:1 payback, so that it's paid up in four years. But the four years payback doesn't begin as long as you're on STRAP. Meanwhile, on STRAP, you accumulate obligation at a 2:1.

Let's say you're starting MDSSP as Class of 2014, and then you do a three year internal medicine residency covered by STRAP. You'd owe 4 years for MDSSP and 6 years for STRAP and payback would start in 2017 when you finish residency.

Clear as mud?
 
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I found a document that says that if you do both (MDSSP & STRAP) you only have a 1:1 ratio to payback instead of the 2:1.
Not really. If you do MDSSP and STRAP together, MDSSP becomes 1:1 but STRAP stays 2:1.

Also, if you do MDSSP alone, you start payback when you finish the program (starting in residency). If you do both together, you do not payback until you finish STRAP (after residency). This is a military thing. You don't payback while you're accumulating obligation. It's the same reason that folks in HPSP are not paying back military obligation while in residency.
Let's say I take 8yrs of med school and residency....

Will I owe 16 total yrs back....those 8 yrs and the basic mandatory 8 yrs for signing up?
No. If you take 8 years of med school and residency (4 years MDSSP and 4 years STRAP), you would owe a total of 12 years, beginning when you finish med school.

The "basic mandatory 8 yrs" is the 8 year MSO. It's burned up concurrently with these 12 years. Ignore it. The 8 year MSO is only relevant if you enter a program in the military in which you'll be signed up for less than 8 years.
I know the ASR was just 8yrs period and I could take advantage of the scholarships and retention bonus.
Not sure what you mean by the "retention bonus." If you're talking about Special Pay program or HPLRP (loan repayment), you're still eligible.

By "scholarship", if you mean the Federal Tuition Assistance of $4,500/year, you're still eligible.

Hope this helps...
 
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Thanks! Your post explained it very well!!

Wow, the ASR program was really good!! :(


So, what would you recommend as the best approach in terms of combining things?

Can you do the Healthcare Professional Bonus while in residency?

I know you can do HPLRP while in residency and with STRAP.
 
Wow, the ASR program was really good!! :(
Yep. It is/was a great program. It's not officially gone (at least I haven't gotten the memo yet), but it was never meant to last. 600 slots, and the last I heard we went through 570 of them. Whether new ones will open up as people leave remains to be seen.
So, what would you recommend as the best approach in terms of combining things?
It completely depends on how much you're willing to commit. If you take MDSSP for four years, you owe the Guard 8 years of drilling service beginning when you graduate med school. You're non-deployable during your residency years of those 8. You are on flexi-training (drilling as infrequently as every third month, depending on schedule) while in residency. But you owe 8 years post-med school.

In exchange, you get about $96K from MDSSP plus $18K in tuition waivers give Guardsmen. So a little over $114K. That pays for most or all of your med school debt at almost any school.

While you're in MDSSP, you can determine if you love the Guard. By the end of med school, you can determine if you want to commit 8 extra years to it for the sake of another $96K. Tread carefully, but by the end of MDSSP, you should have a good command of what you're signing up for.
Can you do the Healthcare Professional Bonus while in residency? I know you can do HPLRP while in residency and with STRAP.
Yes.
 
I would like to do it to retirement possibly....

Do you happen to know how you can calculate retirement?

It is another perk I am really interested in....I would hope it would 2-3K/month...not sure how that works though...

Another thing I was going to ask my recruiter Monday.
 
Do you happen to know how you can calculate retirement?

It is another perk I am really interested in....I would hope it would 2-3K/month...not sure how that works though...

Another thing I was going to ask my recruiter Monday.
Ask your recruiter.

Retirement is very complicated. It's percentage based on how many given days you put in each year. More deployments = more retirement. More drilling = more retirement. It's all based on points.

To net $2K-$3K/month, you'd want to have put in a lot of years and worked a lot of weekends in the Guard.
 
Ask your recruiter.

Retirement is very complicated. It's percentage based on how many given days you put in each year. More deployments = more retirement. More drilling = more retirement. It's all based on points.

To net $2K-$3K/month, you'd want to have put in a lot of years and worked a lot of weekends in the Guard.

Do you happen to know how working for the VA and Guard affects retirement? Can you get both or combine them somehow....?
 
Do you happen to know how working for the VA and Guard affects retirement? Can you get both or combine them somehow....?
Military and civilian retirement plans are separate entities. I can't imagine the VA is radically different. You'd want a retirement plan from your civilian life. I don't know anyone who retires on a Guard retirement plan.
Also, can you do 4 yrs of MDSSP and 1 yr of STRAP and get the MDSSP reduced to 1:1?
Doubt it very much. I'm quite sure that MDSSP only becomes 1:1 when it adds up to more years than if you hadn't done STRAP. No data to back that up, but the Army doesn't usually leave such obvious loopholes in favor of the recruit.
 
Military and civilian retirement plans are separate entities. I can't imagine the VA is radically different. You'd want a retirement plan from your civilian life. I don't know anyone who retires on a Guard retirement plan.

Doubt it very much. I'm quite sure that MDSSP only becomes 1:1 when it adds up to more years than if you hadn't done STRAP. No data to back that up, but the Army doesn't usually leave such obvious loopholes in favor of the recruit.

I was curious since both VA and Guard are fed if they would give you 2 retirements....together it might be okay with a 401K.

Yeah, I was kind of doubting that....:laugh:
 

MDSSP and STRAP Payback

If you take MDSSP for four years, say, you'll owe eight years payback, starting after graduating med school. But if you start residency and take STRAP, they change your MDSSP to 1:1 payback, so that it's paid up in four years. But the four years payback doesn't begin as long as you're on STRAP. Meanwhile, on STRAP, you accumulate obligation at a 2:1.

Let's say you're starting MDSSP as Class of 2014, and then you do a three year internal medicine residency covered by STRAP. You'd owe 4 years for MDSSP and 6 years for STRAP and payback would start in 2017 when you finish residency.

Clear as mud?

NDY- Thanks for posting.

If I do MDSSP for 4 years in school and then STRAP for 4 years residency, I have 8 in and owe 12 more correct? I just want to make sure I'm interpreting that correctly.

If so, it really blows ASR is temporarily suspended. Less money in that initial 8 year window and requiring a 12 year payback if you take it all 8...
 
So for ASR folks, would a commitment from MDSSP (e.g. if you did ASR for MS1-3 and MDSSP for MS4) occur after the 6 year drilling obligation for ASR or after graduation (i.e. would it run concurrently)?
 
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NDY- Thanks for posting.

If I do MDSSP for 4 years in school and then STRAP for 4 years residency, I have 8 in and owe 12 more correct? I just want to make sure I'm interpreting that correctly.

If so, it really blows ASR is temporarily suspended. Less money in that initial 8 year window and requiring a 12 year payback if you take it all 8...

you have the calculations right!!

I am in for ASR....not sure about this.....I cant get my recruiter to call me back from my area! :(
 
If I do MDSSP for 4 years in school and then STRAP for 4 years residency, I have 8 in and owe 12 more correct? I just want to make sure I'm interpreting that correctly.
You are correct.
If so, it really blows ASR is temporarily suspended. Less money in that initial 8 year window and requiring a 12 year payback if you take it all 8...
Actually, MDSSP + STRAP = more money than ASR, though you're in a lot longer...

If you really want to compare apples to apples, compare ASR to MDSSP:

ASR = about $150K for three years of drilling, then five years of drilling for $2K-$10K/year.

MDSSP = about $96K for four years of drilling, then eight years of drilling for $2K-$10K/year.

If ASR wasn't around when I was looking into HPSP/FAP/USUHS, etc., I probably would have ended up with MDSSP. Between it and tuition waivers, you can get most or all of med school paid for, and you only owe a few years post-residency drilling.

I think ASR is a better deal, personally, but it was meant for a limited time only. I'm still hoping they'll recycle seats, but even if they don't, MDSSP is still one of the better deals out there for folks interested in doing a civilian residency and serving in the military part-time.
 
J DUB:

There's a lot of confusion about payback with MDSSP, STRAP and MDSSP + STRAP. Let me clarify things here and then will answer your questions...



MDSSP-
  • $1992/month while in med school. You are exempt from mobilization while in medical school.
  • 2:1 obligation (every 1 year of benefits = 2 years of drilling obligation).
  • You must be enrolled in this program as you graduate (in other words, if you want MDSSP for three years, you need to take it MS II-IV).
  • You begin payback when you start residency (e.g.: Take MS II-IV, you owe six years drilling, which will finish six years after graduating medical school).

STRAP-
  • $1992/month while in residency. You are exempt from mobilization while in residency.
  • 2:1 obligation (every 1 year of benefits = 2 years of drilling obligation).
  • You begin payback when you finish residency (e.g.: Take PGY I-III, you owe six years drilling, which will finish six years after finishing residency.
MDSSP and STRAP Payback
If you take MDSSP for four years, say, you'll owe eight years payback, starting after graduating med school. But if you start residency and take STRAP, they change your MDSSP to 1:1 payback, so that it's paid up in four years. But the four years payback doesn't begin as long as you're on STRAP. Meanwhile, on STRAP, you accumulate obligation at a 2:1.

Let's say you're starting MDSSP as Class of 2014, and then you do a three year internal medicine residency covered by STRAP. You'd owe 4 years for MDSSP and 6 years for STRAP and payback would start in 2017 when you finish residency.

Clear as mud?

So a person selecting MDSSP could choose a long residency and fellowship (8 years), be in the guard all that time, pay back their commitment, and never deploy. That seems like a way to beat the system right there for those against deployment. Perhaps fellowships aren't covered though since that wasn't articulated.

Note, I'm not referring to myself because I would try to pick a specialty with only a three year residency since I'm not a glutton for punishment.
 
So a person selecting MDSSP could choose a long residency and fellowship (8 years), be in the guard all that time, pay back their commitment, and never deploy. That seems like a way to beat the system right there for those against deployment. Perhaps fellowships aren't covered though since that wasn't articulated.

Note, I'm not referring to myself because I would try to pick a specialty with only a three year residency since I'm not a glutton for punishment.

Fellowships are not covered....
 
ASR = about $150K for three years of drilling, then five years of drilling for $2K-$10K/year.

MDSSP = about $96K for four years of drilling, then eight years of drilling for $2K-$10K/year.

Assuming 10k/year, which gives MDSSP the edge, ASR is still more money per year, which is the only way you can really compare them as "apples and apples".

ASR: 150k + 50k = 200k/8years = 25k/year

MDSSP: 96k + 80k = 176k/12years = 14.5k/year

MDSSP+ STRAP = 96k + 96k + 120k = 312k/20 years = 15.6k/year

Not to be picky about your math but it's not even close. If you weight the drilling years at less than 10k, the advantage swings even farther in favor of ASR.
 
Assuming 10k/year, which gives MDSSP the edge, ASR is still more money per year, which is the only way you can really compare them as "apples and apples".

ASR: 150k + 50k = 200k/8years = 25k/year

MDSSP: 96k + 80k = 176k/12years = 14.5k/year

MDSSP+ STRAP = 96k + 96k + 120k = 312k/20 years = 15.6k/year

Not to be picky about your math but it's not even close. If you weight the drilling years at less than 10k, the advantage swings even farther in favor of ASR.

exactly...big difference per yr.

ASR lets you get a feel for it too without more than the standard 8yr commitment.
 
Not to be picky about your math but it's not even close. If you weight the drilling years at less than 10k, the advantage swings even farther in favor of ASR.
You're right, my math is talking total payout, not the per year payout, which is probably the way folks will evaluate it.

ASRs a great program, but it was limited time only. They may start taking folks again as they graduate out of ASR, but I've only heard that through rumor.

My $0.02, if you're thinking ASR or nothing, submit an app if your state is taking them, then move on and keep your fingers crossed. If you're looking for a part-time opportunity in the military, look at the other NG and Reserve programs. MDSSP and/or STRAP stands up very favorably to what the Reserves are offering.
 
Not to be picky about your math but it's not even close. If you weight the drilling years at less than 10k, the advantage swings even farther in favor of ASR.
You're right, my math is talking total payout, not the per year payout, which is probably the way folks will evaluate it.

ASRs a great program, but it was limited time only. They may start taking folks again as they graduate out of ASR, but I've only heard that through rumor.

My $0.02, if you're thinking ASR or nothing, submit an app if your state is taking them, then move on and keep your fingers crossed. If you're looking for a part-time opportunity in the military, look at the other NG and Reserve programs. MDSSP and/or STRAP stands up very favorably to what the Reserves are offering.
 
Let's say if I wanted to do MDSSP...what timeline would I need to be complete to start receiving checks by the time med school starts in Aug?

Can I wait to make a decision until around April? I also would like to do ASR if it comes back..can I just switch over or am I ineligible for it then after taking MDSSP.
 
Is the 3 year specialty extension for 75k available to MDSSP participants? If so, I don't understand is why ANYONE would do STRAP.
 
Let's say if I wanted to do MDSSP...what timeline would I need to be complete to start receiving checks by the time med school starts in Aug?
Expect the same timeline as for ASR. The only added work it is to signs up someone for ASR is filing for a control number, which is very quick. The MDSSP cycle could be a little quicker (since folks aren't slammed rushing to get ASR apps in) or it could be a little slower (since there isn't the rush to get ASR apps in).

Timeline's are tough to say. If you have no need for moral/health waivers, from the time you send everything in to the point you get paid is usually 2-6 months. Most folks probably take between 3-5 months.
Can I wait to make a decision until around April?
Contact your recruiter and see what he says. If I were your recruiter, I'd recommend applying now and holding you off on swearing in at your state boards until you've decided. But this will be your recruiter's call as well.
I also would like to do ASR if it comes back..can I just switch over or am I ineligible for it then after taking MDSSP.
No. If you are in MDSSP, you are ineligible for ASR.
 
Is the 3 year specialty extension for 75k available to MDSSP participants? If so, I don't understand is why ANYONE would do STRAP.
You can do the Special Pay Program if you're already in STRAP. I'm not sure if folks in MDSSP are ineligible or not. I don't see any language forbidding it.

That said, in SPP, it specifically says that you need to have normal drill attendance (one weekend EVERY month and two weeks EVERY year) unlike the flexi-training for STRAP. That might be limiting for a lot of residencies.

STRAP's designed for residents, Special Pay Program is designed for physicians. Don't expect a lot of sympathy for the "my residency program says I HAVE to ___." if you are in SPP.
 
Also, can you do 4 yrs of MDSSP and 1 yr of STRAP and get the MDSSP reduced to 1:1?

I like the 1:1 deal...

Military and civilian retirement plans are separate entities. I can't imagine the VA is radically different. You'd want a retirement plan from your civilian life. I don't know anyone who retires on a Guard retirement plan.

Doubt it very much. I'm quite sure that MDSSP only becomes 1:1 when it adds up to more years than if you hadn't done STRAP. No data to back that up, but the Army doesn't usually leave such obvious loopholes in favor of the recruit.

My local recruiter told me that you can take one yr of STRAP and get the 1:1 deal for the MDSSP. Even if you take all 4 yrs of MDSSP and 1 yr of STRAP.

Just thought I would add what I was told.....
 
My local recruiter told me that you can take one yr of STRAP and get the 1:1 deal for the MDSSP. Even if you take all 4 yrs of MDSSP and 1 yr of STRAP.
I believe your local recruiter is wrong. Tell him to refer to the ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentive Programs for FY 09 memo (12/05/2008). I realize that there's probably a newer version, but last year's is the most recent I have handy and I doubt this year's is radically different (if it's even out yet).

Section 8.c reads:

"The STRAP may be taken for any number of years during the residency period. However, if the applicant only desires to take STRAP for a portion of the remaining residency period, the start date must be calculated from the residency end date. For example, if a Physician with a 4-year program ending June 2008 only wants 2 years of STRAP, he or she is not authorized to start the stipend receipt until July 2006."

The language is pretty clear. No loophole.

This is why if a recruiter tells you something about a program that either sounds too good to be true or goes against conventional wisdom, ask for where he heard this in writing. Recruiters sometimes have a tendency to believe stuff that is most beneficial to getting someone to sign up. Imagine...
 
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So I just finished my paper work and was planning on applying for the ASR program, but now that the program is up in the air I am reconsidering my options.

Does anyone know how the MDSSP works for students in a dual program (MD,DO/Phd)? I am currently MS II and have a graduation date of 2015. If I take 3 years MDSSP during my medical school years, can I begin paying back my 6 year commitment during my PhD program? If I then begin a 3 year residency, during which I'm drilling, will I have fulfilled my commitment by the end of my residency? Also, is non-deployable status extended to inlcude the PhD years?
 
Does anyone know how the MDSSP works for students in a dual program (MD,DO/Phd)? I am currently MS II and have a graduation date of 2015. If I take 3 years MDSSP during my medical school years, can I begin paying back my 6 year commitment during my PhD program?
If you take 3 years of MDSSP, you must take them so that you finish MDSSP when you "graduate." In other words, if you only take them three years, you take them for MS II-IV.

Don't MD/PhD's usually do MS I-II, PhD, MS III-IV?

Also, you are exempt from deployment while in residency. I doubt very much that would apply to a PhD program. This is all worth asking your recruiter, though...
 
I spoke with my recuriter early in the week and she told me that the ASR program will be extended but the selection process will be changed somewhat. Applicants will be selected based on merit instead of on a first come first serve basis. This may be, of course, typical recuriter
baloney.
 
I spoke with my recuriter early in the week and she told me that the ASR program will be extended but the selection process will be changed somewhat. Applicants will be selected based on merit instead of on a first come first serve basis. This may be, of course, typical recuriter
baloney.


I hope it comes back......I really wanna do it!! :xf:
 
Timeline's are tough to say. If you have no need for moral/health waivers, from the time you send everything in to the point you get paid is usually 2-6 months. Most folks probably take between 3-5 months.


Do you know how long it takes to get paid once you have signed the MDSSP contract and been sworn in?
 
So, quick question, all hypothetical of course.

The NG appears to offer a desirable deal, however. Lets say you take the GRFD scholarship as an undergrad, basically your last two years of school you enroll in the SMP (Simultaneous Membership Program) as well as ROTC. I believe your MSO after that is 8 years.

Taking that a step further, would you be able to take an MDSSP as well? If yes, then what would your commitment be? 16 years? Or does your initial MSO get burned when you take the MDSSP? I don't think the military would blatantly hand you 2 years of undergraduate college for free.

I'm leaning towards its a bad idea to try and join the guard as an undergrad and then medical school, but I am curious of you all's opinion and insight.
 
The NG appears to offer a desirable deal, however. Lets say you take the GRFD scholarship as an undergrad, basically your last two years of school you enroll in the SMP (Simultaneous Membership Program) as well as ROTC. I believe your MSO after that is 8 years.
Your MSO is always 8 years. The question is how many drilling years you're obligated to when you do whatever programs you're describing (and I honestly have no idea).

If you did MDSSP afterwards, it wouldn't affect the MSO, but it would add drilling years consecutively to whatever you already owed.
 
Your MSO is always 8 years. The question is how many drilling years you're obligated to when you do whatever programs you're describing (and I honestly have no idea).

If you did MDSSP afterwards, it wouldn't affect the MSO, but it would add drilling years consecutively to whatever you already owed.

All right, by that logic it says that the undergraduate scholarship obligates you to serve 8 years in the guard plus training. Assuming they allow you to take the MDSSP scholarship as well, then you'd owe another 8.

Then again, I could speculate all day long and be entirely wrong. Do you think a recruiter would be, dare I say it, honest enough to give me a straight answer? I tend not to trust them any more, ever since an AMEDD recruiter came to a pre-health meeting and told all of us the Army doesn't do GMO any more. :laugh:
 
All right, by that logic it says that the undergraduate scholarship obligates you to serve 8 years in the guard plus training.
I have no clue about undergrad scholarships. The military was the furthest thing from my mind at the time.
Assuming they allow you to take the MDSSP scholarship as well, then you'd owe another 8.
I can confirm this. With 4 years paid MDSSP, you'll owe 8 years drilling. This in addition to any contractual obligation you have entered into with the Guard.
Then again, I could speculate all day long and be entirely wrong. Do you think a recruiter would be, dare I say it, honest enough to give me a straight answer?
Where you're going to have a problem is the fact that you're dealing with two different recruiters. Those who recruit for undergrad aren't too knowledgable about those who recruit for MD and vice versa.

But the contract stuff is pretty clear: contractual obligations are served consecutively with each other and concurrently with the 8 year MSO.

Example 1: you sign up for one of those programs where you only owe 2 years drilling. Well, you owe two years contractually to drill, but 8 years on your MSO. You get out in 2 years but owe 6 years in the IRR.

Example 2: you sign up for a program where you only owe 6 years drilling but you sign another one where you owe for 8 years drilling. You owe a total of 14 years drilling, which is served consecutively with your 8 year MSO. You're out in 14 years and owe no IRR.

Make sense?
 
Make sense?

Yeah it does. I think I'm too late on the undergraduate scholarships any way. They require you to do a full two years of ROTC and some summer crap. Just don't have the time for that.

I was just curious about the MDSSP details. I've lurked on the forums for awhile now. Thanks for your responses though, good stuff :thumbup:
 
Don't forget, the loan repayment for docs just went up to $!20K. And you can apply for it during your 2nd year of residency and get the first payment then too!
 
And you can apply for it during your 2nd year of residency and get the first payment then too!
Not really. There's a pretty lengthy explanation of this on the big ASR thread if you're curious. You can apply for it as a third year resident only in very specific conditions (you're already on STRAP and going into a critical warfare specialty). For everyone else, you can't apply until you're BE/BC.
 
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