MD/PhD salary after PostDoc

[Hoooba]

Hi Everyone,

I am assuming that most MD/PhD work in academic settings after postDocs. I was wondering what is the expected salary for such positions?

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[dl2dp2]

according to one unnamed current MSTP director, the salary for an assistant professor in a clinical department in a large urban center is around $125,000 (this assumes some clinical responsibility and the possibility of having a research laboratory on the side.)

compare with $65,000-75,000 for an assistant professor in a pure basic science dept and $180,000 for a private practice internist ($200,000 for a pathologist, $250,000-$300,000 for a radiologist).

 

[Neuronix]

It does vary by specialty however, having to do with the relative wealth of the department and the demand for those specialists in the clinical realm. Since IM isn't paying so hot in the real world, most IM specialties in the academic arena are making low $100ks. In things like peds or peds subspecialties, you can expect under $100k. On the other hand rads in the private practice setting is making alot more, so they make more in academics as well (say $200k). This may be less true for places like NYC where the market is so saturated with subspecialists. In any case, what sluox is saying jives with what I've heard as well.

 

[j8131]

It does vary by specialty however, having to do with the relative wealth of the department and the demand for those specialists in the clinical realm. Since IM isn't paying so hot in the real world, most IM specialties in the academic arena are making low $100ks. In things like peds or peds subspecialties, you can expect under $100k. On the other hand rads in the private practice setting is making alot more, so they make more in academics as well (say $200k). This may be less true for places like NYC where the market is so saturated with subspecialists. In any case, what sluox is saying jives with what I've heard as well.

How about neurology? I imagine it would be similar to IM, but I've heard quotes of <100k. What is the typical salary progression if you start at low 100s?

 

[Neuronix]

How about neurology? I imagine it would be similar to IM, but I've heard quotes of <100k. What is the typical salary progression if you start at low 100s?

Neurology does tend to be 100k or less is my understanding. I don't really know about how salary progression works however.

 

[Hoooba]

How do the salaries of MDs in academic settings compared to MD/PhDs also in the academic setting ?

 

[dl2dp2]

it's not gonna be < than 100k , as long as you don't go to Kansas (or a public hospital) (at least according to someone very reputable) don't worry if you practice some you'll be fine. Neurology pays above internal medicine and psych...although i hear in academia everyone gets $125,000.

In neurology you can do things like sleep therapy and interventional, and other procedures that could potentially make a lot more. For more info, see the neurology board.

you can't get below 100,000 as a full time clinical practitioner. it's virtully impossible. It may happen if you do a TON of research (like 90-95%), and even then...it's not likely to happen. Salary also steadily goes up. If you are in your 50s and got assist prof at 35, you'd get ~180,000-200,000. Don't worry. Be happy. You'll be a doctor. Doctoring's still the most well-paid profession in the US.

How about neurology? I imagine it would be similar to IM, but I've heard quotes of <100k. What is the typical salary progression if you start at low 100s?

 

[dl2dp2]

How do the salaries of MDs in academic settings compared to MD/PhDs also in the academic setting ?

there's no difference. remember folks salary comes with your job, not with your degree.

MD/PhDs make more money if they do consulting with a bio-tech or work for an i-bank

 

[Neuronix]

it's not gonna be < than 100k don't worry if you practice some you'll be fine.

This is not what I was told by an assistant prof of neurology at HUP. He found it funny that the graduating residents were surprised they couldn't find any academic job offers breaking $100k. At CHOP as a peds neurologist, it was even less.

 

[dl2dp2]

really? maybe i should sell out now.......my info comes from a certain unnamed MSTP director who's in charge of paying the assist. profs. Maybe you can't be an assist prof right away after residency...dunno

This is not what I was told by an assistant prof of neurology at HUP. He found it funny that the graduating residents were surprised they couldn't find any academic job offers breaking $100k. At CHOP as a peds neurologist, it was even less.

 

[mjs]

really? maybe i should sell out now.......my info comes from a certain unnamed MSTP director who's in charge of paying the assist. profs. Maybe you can't be an assist prof right away after residency...dunno

It's totally the opposite of what i've seen and heard as well. If they start out as instructors or lecturers and then move up to assistant professorships at Penn, that might explain it.

 

[Neuronix]

It could always be bogus or institution-specific information, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt I had considered Neurology for awhile myself, but then I did my neuro rotation and really wasn't all that happy with it.

 

[milliardo_L]

Doctoring's still the most well-paid profession in the US.

I was just reading about this yesterday in my economics textbook and because of the length of the training, the cost of oportunity for being a doctor is higher than either lawyers or MBA people. They can start working sooner, thus gaining raises faster. That is generally speaking, of course.

 

[xanthines]

Except you're talking about lifetime earnings minus initial investements (ie school). I think most people here are talking about annual income for which physicians are generally highest paid. I imagine there are too many bottom-dwelling lawyers bringing the average down (although still quite high). As for MBA's, the salaries for the average grad just isn't up there, unless you're the CEO or some other high-ranking executive.

Despite all the moaning and groaning from older docs, the field of medicine still appears to be lucrative. I guess it depends on what you consider lucrative...

http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/08/pf/saving/q_sixfigurejobs/

-X

I was just reading about this yesterday in my economics textbook and because of the lenght of the training, the cost of oportunity for being a doctor is higher than either lawyers or MBA people. The can start working sooner, thus gaining raises faster. That is generally speaking, of course

 

[Neuro244]

If you wanted to teach neuroscience at a medical institution after receiving your MD, what would be the steps? Finish medical school-4 years, then 1 year residency in IM, followed by a 3 year residency in neurology. Would you then have to do a post-doc to apply for an academic position teaching neuroscience, or could you go straight from residency into an academic position where you teach neuroscience?

1. In either case, how much of the time would you be teaching neuroscience, and how much would you practice neurology?
2. If you apply for an academic position to teach neuroscience to med students could you make more money/have a better chance of landing a job by having an MD, versus pursuing a Ph.D in neuroscience and then look to teach neuroscience at an institution (not necessarily med school), which I've heard from many to have horrible job prospects.
3. Thus would having an MD make it easier/more profitable to get a position teaching neuroscience versus the Ph.D?

 

[dl2dp2]

This is a very very old thread, which I posted over 10 years ago now. The numbers are completely off at this point. To answer your questions briefly:

1. people can do a variety of things, but in general neurology professors in academic neurology departments do not teach neuroscience courses for medical students.
2. no. in general these teaching positions are filled by PhDs.
3. no. full time teaching positions pay very little and it rarely matters what your degree is. It may be as low as 50-70k with benefits, and in general less than 100k except at very senior levels. MDs who opt for this type of career generally either retired from a full time clinical position or for one reason or another couldn't do a full time clinical job.
part time teaching jobs are somewhat more plentiful, however, they pay even less. Usually they pay between 3-6k a course per semester. So an adjunct professor of neuroscience on a full time schedule of 4/4 at several schools teaching med school/undergrad neuroscience (a fairly typical arrangement) is about ~ 50k on a 1099.

 

[Lucca]

This is a very very old thread, which I posted over 10 years ago now. The numbers are completely off at this point. To answer your questions briefly:

1. people can do a variety of things, but in general neurology professors in academic neurology departments do not teach neuroscience courses for medical students.
2. no. in general these teaching positions are filled by PhDs.
3. no. full time teaching positions pay very little and it rarely matters what your degree is. It may be as low as 50-70k with benefits, and in general less than 100k except at very senior levels. MDs who opt for this type of career generally either retired from a full time clinical position or for one reason or another couldn't do a full time clinical job.
part time teaching jobs are somewhat more plentiful, however, they pay even less. Usually they pay between 3-6k a course per semester. So an adjunct professor of neuroscience on a full time schedule of 4/4 at several schools teaching med school/undergrad neuroscience (a fairly typical arrangement) is about ~ 50k on a 1099.

Just curious, but how does the info about academic salaries that you posted about 10 years ago look like now?

 

[dl2dp2]

There are no straightforward answers...I'll do my best

Interestingly, for a mostly clinical academic job, rads and path salary basically didn't change much (still respectively, 300k, ~ 200-250k)...this is pretty telling in and of itself.

Typical physician scientist job increased mostly keeping up with inflation, so about 30% more in 10 years. Say a K level salary for a non procedural specialty with lots of clinical interaction is somewhere between 150-200k depending on various factors.

I'm less familiar with basic science jobs, but I think a TT job as an assistant professor at a major state university (i.e. USNWR top 50ish) would be around 90-100k. Top schools pay somewhat more than 100k a year, but not much more. Below that would pay below than 100k. So at most keeping up with inflation.

 

[mynameistoolong]

Salaries for MD/PhD faculty (doing mostly basic science) at my major state university (i.e. USNWR top 50ish) are available publicly and the lowest salaries I could find for assistant professors in Peds & low-paying IM subspecialties (Allergy, Endo, Geriatrics, etc.) were about 140-150k (I could find one person at 120k). That seems a bit higher than your estimate?

 

[dl2dp2]

Salaries for MD/PhD faculty (doing mostly basic science) at my major state university (i.e. USNWR top 50ish) are available publicly and the lowest salaries I could find for assistant professors in Peds & low-paying IM subspecialties (Allergy, Endo, Geriatrics, etc.) were about 140-150k (I could find one person at 120k). That seems a bit higher than your estimate?

I don't know how you read this as higher than my estimate. I estimated the salary to be 150-200k. This sounds like it's lower than my estimate. Keep in mind though your salary figure is often not "accurate". The publicly posted salary is only salary posted by the university. A lot of clinicians "moonlight", and not a small number of them end up making more moonlighting than at their day job.

A couple of catch points, while general inflation didn't go up much nationwide, education, healthcare and housing in parts of the country have gone up... at times astronomically... since 2007. An academic pediatrician at a top 20 school trying to gun for a suburb with top rated public school in 2017 will feel the pinch on a 150k salary, even though it technically kept up with the inflation since 2007. His purely private colleague is now making 250k and driving up the housing prices. The differential between setting has definitely increased.

 

[mynameistoolong]

Ah, I thought you meant 90-100k for MD/PhDs doing mostly basic science jobs. My bad. And, yeah, there are full professors/HHMI investigators listed as making 20k or something ridiculously low and clearly most of their salary is from elsewhere.

 

[Fencer]

Ah, I thought you meant 90-100k for MD/PhDs doing mostly basic science jobs. My bad. And, yeah, there are full professors/HHMI investigators listed as making 20k or something ridiculously low and clearly most of their salary is from elsewhere.

That is the university contribution plus I received another check from my other sources. When I was 75% at the VA, my listed public university salary was like ~$90K as a full tenured professor; however, as I said, that was what the university paid for 25% of my time (actual hours were more). Same happens with other institutions, clinical sources or foundation sources might cover the other salary.