This year's LTC list is out. Your commanders have it but close/hold and can't counsel you until Tuesday. List will be published Wednesday. This came out in a MILPER this week, just putting it out there for everybody.
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good luck to those it applies to. I've given up trying to predict O-5 and O-6 boards. probably will be the same song, different verse this year-- discriminators being deployments, operational tours, "advancing degrees of responsibility," military education, etc etc. but then you'll see people selected who have never deployed or others passed over who have done it all.
--your friendly neighborhood terminal O-5 caveman
Preliminary report is low selection rate. If you are MAJ in fellowship program going to LTC board you will likely not get pick up. It is better to be Primary doc doing operational stuff. Army wants highly trained doctors in hospitals to get out...HPSPer think before joining!!
Liberating, isn't it? I used to agonize over the phrasing of block 41. Now? It took me less than 10 min to put together my last fitrep.--your friendly neighborhood terminal O-5 caveman
Liberating, isn't it? I used to agonize over the phrasing of block 41. Now? It took me less than 10 min to put together my last fitrep.
Once you've eaten all the carrots, the only thing that matters is stick avoidance.
If it only if HPSP/USUHS group falls into only two groups. Some great doctors are really undecided at end of obligation (esp USUHS) and when we hit 13 years and don't get pick even after deployment, good OERs and director of subspecialty you wonder why we should stay until retirment. I see my mentor leave this way and it is really demoralizing.Most HPSPer's are out the door before they're even close to picking up O-5. Most just pin on O-4 and leave. Your message is more towards those who want a career in the military, which retention rates show is not the norm.
Any idea what the selection rate was?
Above the zone of 40% is just unheard of...It is actually too high as rest of army (non-MC) is really low (<2%). I know few doctors who got promoted above the zone despite not correcting original deficiency that prevented from getting promoted in the zone. If a doctor does not get promoted above the zone and needs to stay in to pay back years..does he go promotion board every year until he gets promoted? I think rest of army..if you dont get promoted above the zone you are out.
In all services, you are allowed to stay for as long as you want once you hit O-4. Until you hit O-4 if you don't get promoted in zone they kick you out. After you hit O-4 you are allowed to continue on for up to your full 30 years unless you do something bad enough to actually get fired. Theoretically every O-4 who doesn't make O-5 has always gone to the board, every year, until they promoted or retired.
In all services, you are allowed to stay for as long as you want once you hit O-4. Until you hit O-4 if you don't get promoted in zone they kick you out. After you hit O-4 you are allowed to continue on for up to your full 30 years unless you do something bad enough to actually get fired. Theoretically every O-4 who doesn't make O-5 has always gone to the board, every year, until they promoted or retired. However, for my entire lifetime, the military has considered above zone boards separately from in zone boards, and no more than a few percent of the officers who missed their in zone window would ever be allowed to pick up above zone. Doctors rarely face the issue of higher tenure (what they call it when you don't get promoted in zone and get kicked out) because you need an actual recorded disciplinary problem not to hit O-4 in the medical corps, but I have seen it happen and yes, they do keep you for the duration of your obligation.
As for why the above zone promotion rate is so high: I was told that this year there was a conscious, tri-service change in the above zone promotion policy. I am not at all clear about whether it applies to everyone or just the medical corps, but we were told that they beginning this year they (theoretically) ended the concept of in zone vs above zone promotion. From this point on the board is supposed to consider anyone in zone and above zone equally, only below zone officers should need to meet a higher standard for promotion. It was meant to allow people to develop their careers more organically, rather than worrying that they have to do a leadership position right now because they're two years away from being in zone.
It's possible that the Army has enacted similar changes which caused a similar swing in their statistics as well. For those in the AZ group this is great news, for those who aren't it means that promotions are likely going to be delayed as every AZ select takes away from an IZ select. (The conspiracy theorist in me says this is all just a ploy to delay paying people more money just like the shift many years ago from promoting a higher percentage every month to now just 3% per month in the Navy).
Agreed. There are increasing number of reasons not to join military. Medical students don't look at low ISP rates of sub specialist, decreasing promotional potential etc before signing for HPSP.the army above zone/primary zone numbers this year are pretty similar to 2016 (48% AZ, 65% PZ). in 2015 the AZ was 27%, PZ 63%. so army wise there a fairly significant AZ jump a couple years ago, but it's been stable (for an N of 2 years at least). in my experience the people who get screwed are the ones who go straight from residency to fellowship and don't get a chance for "leadership experience" or operational time.
--your friendly neighborhood utilization/deployment but no admin caveman
I disagree. I think there are an increasing number of reasons not to stay in the military after an initial HPSP commitment, or to commit for more than 4 years though USUHS/ROTC, but that doesn't have anything to do with taking the HPSP scholarship. The promotion rate to O-4 is still 100%. The slight decrease in the real value of physician pay is dwarfed by the dramatic increase in the value of the HPSP scholarship itself. The ever increasing emphasis on physicians filling administrative jobs in their mid and late careers doesn't matter if you don't stay long enough to qualify for any of those positions.Agreed. There are increasing number of reasons not to join military. Medical students don't look at low ISP rates of sub specialist, decreasing promotional potential etc before signing for HPSP.
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I dont understand what makes the military to be a good way to start a medical career now? Presence of signing bonus? Rising cost of medical school? You and I both know that joining HPSP for monetary reason is never good reason and certainly does not make militay a good place to start a medical career. Furthermore quality of residency training remained stagnant like our military bonus pays.
The fact is that we are seeing decreasing percentage of Army doctors promoting to O-5 as result of military's increased emphasis on leadership and military education just like non-MC promotion. About 6 years ago I saw Army anesthesiologist (O-6) who was an excellent physician but he never did CCC. Lack of military education did not prevent his promotion. Current system rewards doctors who have shorter residency (primary care) and spent a lot of time in operational environment. Promotional rates of family medicine doctors are 83% whereas general surgeons are 66%. O-4 who did ILE got promoted 100%. Now If you are doing fellowship after residency there have been increased emphasis on post residency utilization tours (BDE surgeon) adding years in the military. It is not just 4 years commitment. After utilization tours you may find youself doing fellowship and not getting picked up O-5 given lack of leadership under current environment.
I don't know if military was ever a good place to start medical career or stay for 20 years but military is changing for worst for Army doctors esp specialists.
Couldn't one argue that those with shorter residencies (usually primary care) have thus had more opportunity to do things outside of training, and thus the higher promotion rate? Not sure I would have expected anything differently. At the same time, ENT/Ortho appear to have promoted closer to the rates of primary care, so maybe it's just general surgery that's an anomaly this year?
About 6 years ago I saw Army anesthesiologist (O-6) who was an excellent physician but he never did CCC. Lack of military education did not prevent his promotion. Current system rewards doctors who have shorter residency (primary care) and spent a lot of time in operational environment. Promotional rates of family medicine doctors are 83% whereas general surgeons are 66%. O-4 who did ILE got promoted 100%.
Now If you are doing fellowship after residency there have been increased emphasis on post residency utilization tours (BDE surgeon) adding years in the military. It is not just 4 years commitment. After utilization tours you may find youself doing fellowship and not getting picked up O-5 given lack of leadership under current environment. .
I don't know if military was ever a good place to start medical career or stay for 20 years but military is changing for worst for Army doctors esp specialists.
Couldn't one argue that those with shorter residencies (usually primary care) have thus had more opportunity to do things outside of training, and thus the higher promotion rate? Not sure I would have expected anything differently. At the same time, ENT/Ortho appear to have promoted closer to the rates of primary care, so maybe it's just general surgery that's an anomaly this year?
Have the discrimators come out yet?
What's life like after making O5? Can I stop going to bs EO, sharp, other random training? Can I just blow off everything except good patient care? Is it true they can't get rid of me? Maybe they can deploy me if they really hate me...
You can do this at O4 if you're ok with making people mad.