Match prelim but not into an advanced program

[Ger]

I have seen several threads asking what happens if you match into an advanced, but not into a prelim/transitional year.

I'd like to ask the other way around:

What happens if you match into a prelim year spot, but not into an advanced program (e.g. neurology).

Would it be possible to defer from the match or am I forced to do the internship.

I ask this, because I am highly selective in my advanced programs.

Thank you

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[NotAProgDirector]

You cannot defer. If you match into a prelim, you must do it.

You can avoid this altogether. ONly rank advanced programs on your main list. If you don't match anywhere, you'll go completely unmatched (since your prelim lists are only triggered if you match advanced)

Whether doing a prelim will make you a more competitive neuro candidate is unclear.

 

[patch28]

He assumes you understand that in order to match into just a prelim spot, you must rank it on your primary ROL. If every rank you have is an advanced spot with a set of prelims, and you don't match any of those advanced spots, then you do not match the prelims with them, either.

 

[gutonc]

Whether doing a prelim will make you a more competitive neuro candidate is unclear.

It is clear however that working at Starbuck's for a year will not make you a more competitive Neuro candidate. So be sure you've got a backup plan if you don't match.

 

[Ger]

Thanks for your response.
It is important, so I just want to make sure that I understand the consequences in my scenario.

If I only rank 2 advanced programs in the primary ROL and 4 prelims in the secondary, does it mean, that ONLY in case I match one of both advanced programs I will be considered for the prelims in my secondary list?

Thank you again and good luck in the match!

 

[patch28]

Thanks for your response.
It is important, so I just want to make sure that I understand the consequences in my scenario.

If I only rank 2 advanced programs in the primary ROL and 4 prelims in the secondary, does it mean, that ONLY in case I match one of both advanced programs I will be considered for the prelims in my secondary list?

Thank you again and good luck in the match!

That is correct.

 

[Law2Doc]

That is correct.

However many people list some of the prelims again at the end of the primary list as back-ups, because they at least want to have something lined up for next year in the event their advanced programs don't pan out (see #1 below).

Basically folks will want to choose from 3 career-friendly choices in the event they don't match into an advanced program: (1) at least get a prelim year lined up so they can get that out of the way and get some experience that might help them land an advanced program in a subsequent year and at least will help them get licensed if not, (2) not match anyplace and spend a year doing research or something that might help them land an advanced program (with prelim) in a subsequent year. or (3) scramble into something prelim, categorical, or prelim/advanced.

It's all gamesmanship, and many will say that you want the bird in the hand even if it's just a prelim.

 

[Ger]

.

 

[Futuredoc1364]

To revive this thread a bit, how many prelim programs do you guys recommend ranking on my primary ROL after my advanced programs?

I am applying to a competitve specialty and hopefully I will match at one of my advanced programs (ranking 18 of them). But just to be on the safe side (and because I am paranoid ) I am also ranking prelims right after starting from 19. I have about 12 prelim/TY that I have put on my supplemental lists. Should I put all 12 of them on my primary ROL also? I know the only down side of that is extra expense (which turns out to be about $300 since it will turn out to be about 30 programs on my primary ROL. However, after spending thousands of Dollars on application fees and travel, this is actually nothing ). It probably is not necessary to put all 12 on there but who knows...

Also on my primary ROL, should I put the prelims in order that I put them on my supplemental list (basically from easiest to hardest)? Or should I put the more difficult academic prelim programs higher so that I have more access to research and also get better LOR's from academic attendings in those institutions? My plan B I guess is to go to a prelim program and reapply next year. I don't have any research lined up so I don't think I would be able to take the next year off and just do research.

Thanks for your input...

 

[LolaAnesthesia]

To revive this thread a bit, how many prelim programs do you guys recommend ranking on my primary ROL after my advanced programs?

I am applying to a competitve specialty and hopefully I will match at one of my advanced programs (ranking 18 of them). But just to be on the safe side (and because I am paranoid ) I am also ranking prelims right after starting from 19. I have about 12 prelim/TY that I have put on my supplemental lists. Should I put all 12 of them on my primary ROL also? I know the only down side of that is extra expense (which turns out to be about $300 since it will turn out to be about 30 programs on my primary ROL. However, after spending thousands of Dollars on application fees and travel, this is actually nothing ). It probably is not necessary to put all 12 on there but who knows...

Also on my primary ROL, should I put the prelims in order that I put them on my supplemental list (basically from easiest to hardest)? Or should I put the more difficult academic prelim programs higher so that I have more access to research and also get better LOR's from academic attendings in those institutions? My plan B I guess is to go to a prelim program and reapply next year. I don't have any research lined up so I don't think I would be able to take the next year off and just do research.

Thanks for your input...

I would just place one or two of the prelims on the Main list.

 

[patch28]

Use the same rule of thumb that you should use for determining whether to rank ANY of your programs. Think of it as a 1 vs 1 battle - Would I rather match at this program, or go through the scramble and likely not have a spot next year. If you dislike a program so much that you would rather scramble, or if you think you have another plan/course of action aside from scrambling that would be better than the program, then don't rank it. Conversely, if matching into a program, even if it is just a prelim, and however unlikely you may think it will be, is a better option than scrambling, then rank it. If you interviewed at 6 prelims and liked all of them better than scrambling, then rank all six in your ROL. Not doing so would be foolish, as you're basically giving up your place in line at some good prelims in favor of taking whatever rubbish prelim spot is left over. It costs nothing extra and provides you some extra padding for the possible hard fall that is to come.

 

[Samoa]

You may apply in a less competitive field next year, or have a better strategy about the places you apply, but in a head-to-head matchup in any field against your own application as a US senior, you will be less competitive next year, no matter what you do between now and then. So be very careful about choosing not to rank a place that interviewed you this year.

At least then, if you don't match, there may be a tiny bit of consolation in that you didn't end up matching at that one program you really wanted not to rank!

 

[cnlaphny]

However many people list some of the prelims again at the end of the primary list as back-ups, because they at least want to have something lined up for next year in the event their advanced programs don't pan out (see #1 below).

Basically folks will want to choose from 3 career-friendly choices in the event they don't match into an advanced program: (1) at least get a prelim year lined up so they can get that out of the way and get some experience that might help them land an advanced program in a subsequent year and at least will help them get licensed if not, (2) not match anyplace and spend a year doing research or something that might help them land an advanced program (with prelim) in a subsequent year. or (3) scramble into something prelim, categorical, or prelim/advanced.

It's all gamesmanship, and many will say that you want the bird in the hand even if it's just a prelim.

If I ranked some prelims at the bottom of my primary list and only match at a prelim, would I still get an email from the NRMP on March 14 saying that I "matched"? Would the administrators at my school be able to see that I didn't match into any advanced program and give me sufficient notice so that I can attempt to scramble?

 

[Derminator]

If I ranked some prelims at the bottom of my primary list and only match at a prelim, would I still get an email from the NRMP on March 14 saying that I "matched"? Would the administrators at my school be able to see that I didn't match into any advanced program and give me sufficient notice so that I can attempt to scramble?

Do you mean if you ranked some prelims only at the bottom of your primary rank list and match to one of those prelims, would you receive an email saying that you "matched" vs you "matched into a prelim?" I was wondering the same.

 

[gutonc]

If I ranked some prelims at the bottom of my primary list and only match at a prelim, would I still get an email from the NRMP on March 14 saying that I "matched"? Would the administrators at my school be able to see that I didn't match into any advanced program and give me sufficient notice so that I can attempt to scramble?

There's this cool new thing on the internet...it's called Google. I found it at google.com.

I typed "match email" into a blank box there and found this as the first link.

It's frickin' amazing! I wonder what else this Google thing can do?

 

[cnlaphny]

There's this cool new thing on the internet...it's called Google. I found it at google.com.

I typed "match email" into a blank box there and found this as the first link.

It's frickin' amazing! I wonder what else this Google thing can do?

Thanks for the link. No thanks for the facetiousness.

 

[babyjbobby]

So, just to be sure I am on the same page as everyone else, say my rank list has #s 1-2 with advanced programs and their corresponding prelims and then #3-4 with prelim only positions and I match to #3, do I still get an email on monday saying "congrats you have matched"? I have read the NRMP description of matched/unmatched info and the thing that is throwing me off is this statement "Similarly, applicants who included only preliminary programs on their certified rank order lists will receive this statement" under the 'congrats you have matched' section....anybody?????

 

[NotAProgDirector]

So, just to be sure I am on the same page as everyone else, say my rank list has #s 1-2 with advanced programs and their corresponding prelims and then #3-4 with prelim only positions and I match to #3, do I still get an email on monday saying "congrats you have matched"? I have read the NRMP description of matched/unmatched info and the thing that is throwing me off is this statement "Similarly, applicants who included only preliminary programs on their certified rank order lists will receive this statement" under the 'congrats you have matched' section....anybody?????

If the ONLY thing you put on your rank list was prelims, then the match assumes that's all that you wanted. So, you get an email telling you that you matched. Obviously, you know that you only matched to a prelim position since that's all you ranked.

If you rank ANY categorical or advanced position on your rank list and match prelim, then you get the email saying you matched to a prelim but not an advanced, and get the scramble list.

There's an important lesson there -- if you apply for categorical positions but don't get any interviews and only interview at prelim positions, you might want to rank a single categorical / advanced position at the top of your rank list -- else you will not get the scramble list. You MIGHT want to try to scramble into an open advanced spot. You would NOT be able to scramble into an open categorical spot.

 

[Derminator]

If the ONLY thing you put on your rank list was prelims, then the match assumes that's all that you wanted. So, you get an email telling you that you matched. Obviously, you know that you only matched to a prelim position since that's all you ranked.

If you rank ANY categorical or advanced position on your rank list and match prelim, then you get the email saying you matched to a prelim but not an advanced, and get the scramble list.

Thank you! Very useful

 

[babyjbobby]

nm

 

[jp104]

If you rank ANY categorical or advanced position on your rank list and match prelim, then you get the email saying you matched to a prelim but not an advanced, and get the scramble list.

Hi aPD, if you only have categorical and advanced positions and no prelims listed, what message do you get if you match into an advanced position?

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi aPD, if you only have categorical and advanced positions and no prelims listed, what message do you get if you match into an advanced position?

I'm sure it says something to the effect of "congratulations, you matched into an advanced position but did not match into a preliminary position".

Though it should really say something about bad planning. Why wouldn't you take a gander at TYs and prelims during the match rather than risk trying to snare something in the scramble? Instead of some cushy TY in a convenient city, you may be moving to godknowswhere for a year to get worked hard in some less desirable prelim, only to have to move again to your advanced program the very next year. Hope you like packing.

 

[jp104]

I'm sure it says something to the effect of "congratulations, you matched into an advanced position but did not match into a preliminary position".

Though it should really say something about bad planning. Why wouldn't you take a gander at TYs and prelims during the match rather than risk trying to snare something in the scramble? Instead of some cushy TY in a convenient city, you may be moving to godknowswhere for a year to get worked hard in some less desirable prelim, only to have to move again to your advanced program the very next year. Hope you like packing.

I'm a DO student so our match is a little different. I am planning to do a DO traditional intern year (and applied to them during the regular interview season), but had I matched during the DO match in Feb I would have been dropped from the ACGME categorical programs I applied to.

My confusion with the match email is that I am not sure if I am considered "fully matched" since I only ranked advanced and categorical programs. I am hoping that I get the "Congrats you matched into advanced" message if I match advanced so I can scramble for a DO intern year on Monday.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hi aPD, if you only have categorical and advanced positions and no prelims listed, what message do you get if you match into an advanced position?

Agree with above. As long as you have BOTH categorical and advanced programs, you will get the "you match advanced but not prelim". If you only have advanced programs on your list, you get the "You have matched" email.

I'm a DO student so our match is a little different. I am planning to do a DO traditional intern year (and applied to them during the regular interview season), but had I matched during the DO match in Feb I would have been dropped from the ACGME categorical programs I applied to.

My confusion with the match email is that I am not sure if I am considered "fully matched" since I only ranked advanced and categorical programs. I am hoping that I get the "Congrats you matched into advanced" message if I match advanced so I can scramble for a DO intern year on Monday.

As above, you will...

...but I hope you are not applying in Neurology or Derm. Both of those boards do not recognize AOA sponsored training. Your PGY-1 must be ACGME. If you're applying in anesthesia or Rads, AOA PGY-1 is fine.

If you applied to dual ACGME/AOA programs for PGY-1, I don't know what happens. I believe programs that are dual accredited actually have ACGME slots (which are ACGME accredited) and AOA slots (which are not). Even though your education is exactly the same no matter which slot you are in, I believe you need to be an an ACGME slot if you're going into Neuro or Derm. I could be totally wrong about that, though.

 

[jp104]

Agree with above. As long as you have BOTH categorical and advanced programs, you will get the "you match advanced but not prelim". If you only have advanced programs on your list, you get the "You have matched" email.



As above, you will...

...but I hope you are not applying in Neurology or Derm. Both of those boards do not recognize AOA sponsored training. Your PGY-1 must be ACGME. If you're applying in anesthesia or Rads, AOA PGY-1 is fine.

If you applied to dual ACGME/AOA programs for PGY-1, I don't know what happens. I believe programs that are dual accredited actually have ACGME slots (which are ACGME accredited) and AOA slots (which are not). Even though your education is exactly the same no matter which slot you are in, I believe you need to be an an ACGME slot if you're going into Neuro or Derm. I could be totally wrong about that, though.

Thank you aPD! I appreciate you and Law2Doc answering my question!

 

[Solarium]

He assumes you understand that in order to match into just a prelim spot, you must rank it on your primary ROL. If every rank you have is an advanced spot with a set of prelims, and you don't match any of those advanced spots, then you do not match the prelims with them, either.

2 questions:

1. If I did not get any advanced positions in the primary ROL, even if I DID get into the prelim spots in the 2ndary ROL, will that spot be saved for me when I scramble for an advanced position?

2. What happens if I don't scramble into an advanced position, will I get a chance to go do the prelim year and apply next year, or be forced to go into a random program?

 

[Chloroform4Life]

2 questions:

1. If I did not get any advanced positions in the primary ROL, even if I DID get into the prelim spots in the 2ndary ROL, will that spot be saved for me when I scramble for an advanced position?

2. What happens if I don't scramble into an advanced position, will I get a chance to go do the prelim year and apply next year, or be forced to go into a random program?

1. No. you will only match prelim if you ranked those same prelim spots in your 2nd ROL at the end of your primary ROL.

2. If you matched prelim (from your primary ROL) and don't scramble into an advance position, you will get to go to that prelim and then try to find an advance program to go to the following year, which according to my PD is very doable. If you can't find an advance program, you may have to try to match to an advance program through eras again, which would mean you get a year off to do research, travel, work, w/e. But hopefully none of this will matter since you will probably match to both prelim and advance positions as you will find out today.

 

[Solarium]

1. No. you will only match prelim if you ranked those same prelim spots in your 2nd ROL at the end of your primary ROL.

2. If you matched prelim (from your primary ROL) and don't scramble into an advance position, you will get to go to that prelim and then try to find an advance program to go to the following year, which according to my PD is very doable. If you can't find an advance program, you may have to try to match to an advance program through eras again, which would mean you get a year off to do research, travel, work, w/e. But hopefully none of this will matter since you will probably match to both prelim and advance positions as you will find out today.

Wheww, MATCHED! Thank God

 

[liquidshadow22]

Quick question: What about if I match into an ADVANCED program, but because I only have 2 Preliminary interviews on my Supplemental Rank list, I then do not match into a preliminary program?

What would the match do? Would I have to enter into the SOAP for the prelim spot or would it just move me down the list until I match at a Categorical program (another specialty which I am also ranking?)

A little confused here.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Quick question: What about if I match into an ADVANCED program, but because I only have 2 Preliminary interviews on my Supplemental Rank list, I then do not match into a preliminary program?

What would the match do? Would I have to enter into the SOAP for the prelim spot or would it just move me down the list until I match at a Categorical program (another specialty which I am also ranking?)

A little confused here.

SOAP...

 

[Raryn]

Quick question: What about if I match into an ADVANCED program, but because I only have 2 Preliminary interviews on my Supplemental Rank list, I then do not match into a preliminary program?

What would the match do? Would I have to enter into the SOAP for the prelim spot or would it just move me down the list until I match at a Categorical program (another specialty which I am also ranking?)

A little confused here.

You'd partially match and would have to SOAP for the prelim spot.

Probably not a problem in any advanced specialty but neurology, because you'd almost certainly be able to SOAP into a crappy surgery prelim somewhere. If it's neurology and you're limited to only medicine spots, it might actually be pretty tough.

If you can't find a prelim eventually, your match will be made void and you won't have either.

 

[liquidshadow22]

wow, I am actually applying to neurology...so there is no way to actually make the rank move down to another categorical spot (psychiatry) if I cannot get that prelim spot?

 

[Raryn]

wow, I am actually applying to neurology...so there is no way to actually make the rank move down to another categorical spot (psychiatry) if I cannot get that prelim spot?

No. The supplemental lists are totally independent of the main list. So if your main list is
1. C-neuro
2. C-neuro
3. A-neuro
4. C-psychiatry

If you get down to #3 on your list and match, you're done with the main list. Then it will look at your supplemental list to see which prelims you ranked and if you match at any of them. If yes, you've fully matched. If no, then you've partially matched and it is your responsibility to find a prelim. It may be difficult to find an IM prelim. In 2014 there were only 76 empty IM prelims in the country after the match, 70 of which filled pretty easily. The remaining 6 spots were all in one program, I have no idea what program that was. I can't say what the odds are to find a prelim because the statistics of how many people wanted those 76 spots are not available, but it is still a risk.

 

[liquidshadow22]

this sucks, i guess if I was partially matched, the advanced program would try hard to find me a spot, but it seems like I should at the very least be ranking the categorical programs first.

 

[gutonc]

this sucks, i guess if I was partially matched, the advanced program would try hard to find me a spot, but it seems like I should at the very least be ranking the categorical programs first.

Not really. This forum is full of people who matched advanced Neuro spots without a prelim and don't find a prelim spot. Yes, you should rank cat programs first.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I am in the following scenario: I have 5 advanced programs on my Primary ROL, 1 through 5, each with several prelim programs on the Secondary ROL. Is it a good idea to list the same 5 advanced programs, 6 though 10, WITHOUT Secondary ROL? This is in case I don't match any prelim programs and my Primary ROL (1 through 5) is exhausted, it will match me into an advanced spot and I can SOAP into a prelim.

 

[hallowmann]

I am in the following scenario: I have 5 advanced programs on my Primary ROL, 1 through 5, each with several prelim programs on the Secondary ROL. Is it a good idea to list the same 5 advanced programs, 6 though 10, WITHOUT Secondary ROL? This is in case I don't match any prelim programs and my Primary ROL (1 through 5) is exhausted, it will match me into an advanced spot and I can SOAP into a prelim.

I am not sure, but I don't believe this is how it works. I think what happens is that you match at the advanced program, regardless of the outcome of the secondary list, then you match at the pre-lim. If you fail to match at the pre-lim, you will still be matched advanced, then you'll have to find a pre-lim outside of the match. Basically, you wouldn't need to relist all the advanced programs without a secondary ROL, because the outcome would be no different. Again, I am not certain of this, but I believe that's how it works.

Besides, as a DO you'd probably be able to find a TRI, but the trick would be finding one with at least pre-accreditation status.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I am not sure, but I don't believe this is how it works. I think what happens is that you match at the advanced program, regardless of the outcome of the secondary list, then you match at the pre-lim. If you fail to match at the pre-lim, you will still be matched advanced, then you'll have to find a pre-lim outside of the match. Basically, you wouldn't need to relist all the advanced programs without a secondary ROL, because the outcome would be no different. Again, I am not certain of this, but I believe that's how it works.

Besides, as a DO you'd probably be able to find a TRI, but the trick would be finding one with at least pre-accreditation status.

Thanks, hallowman. Apparently NRMP ROL won't allow me to duplicate programs on my list. I also know that if every prelim on the secondary ROL for a particular Advanced program is exhausted, the algorithm then moves to the next advanced program on the primary ROL. So now im wondering if I should rank my advanced positions with no prelims, because I'd rather capture an advanced spot and soap prelim, then match prelim and soap advanced spots.

 

[hallowmann]

Thanks, hallowman. Apparently NRMP ROL won't allow me to duplicate programs on my list. I also know that if every prelim on the secondary ROL for a particular Advanced program is exhausted, the algorithm then moves to the next advanced program on the primary ROL. So now im wondering if I should rank my advanced positions with no prelims, because I'd rather capture an advanced spot and soap prelim, then match prelim and soap advanced spots.

I think that'll only be a problem if you list different pre-lims for each advanced position though. Like if you match advanced 1 and didn't match in your pre-lims, then you wouldn't match at any of the other programs, because you wouldn't match in pre-lims unless there was one you didn't list in your earlier rank's secondary ROL. In that situation, wouldn't it still just match you to the first advanced program that you would match to regardless of no pre-lim?

Like here's an example:

1. ABC Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

2. DEF Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

And so you match advanced at ABC, then don't at pre-lims XYZ, then it moves to DEF and you match advanced, but obviously you don't match at pre-lims XYZ for the same reason you didn't match with ABC advanced. Wouldn't it then go back and just match you at ABC with no pre-lim? It would be weird if that's not how it worked.

The situation where it could matter is say you only wanted a pre-lim if you were in a certain program for advanced, so here's an example:

1. ABC Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

2. DEF Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim W
c. Pre-lim Z

And so you match advanced at ABC, then don't at pre-lims XYZ, then it moves to DEF and you match advanced, and then you match at pre-lim W. In that case, you'd match at DEF and pre-lim W, instead of ABC with no pre-lim. That's at least how I interpret the wording. I don't think that if you list all the same pre-lims it would in any way hurt your ability to match at the advanced positions.

Again though, I don't know for sure, its not something I'm dealing with so I haven't looked into it a lot.

 

[DrBowtie]

Thanks, hallowman. Apparently NRMP ROL won't allow me to duplicate programs on my list. I also know that if every prelim on the secondary ROL for a particular Advanced program is exhausted, the algorithm then moves to the next advanced program on the primary ROL. So now im wondering if I should rank my advanced positions with no prelims, because I'd rather capture an advanced spot and soap prelim, then match prelim and soap advanced spots.

I don't think the bolded is true.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I think that'll only be a problem if you list different pre-lims for each advanced position though. Like if you match advanced 1 and didn't match in your pre-lims, then you wouldn't match at any of the other programs, because you wouldn't match in pre-lims unless there was one you didn't list in your earlier rank's secondary ROL. In that situation, wouldn't it still just match you to the first advanced program that you would match to regardless of no pre-lim?

Like here's an example:

1. ABC Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

2. DEF Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

And so you match advanced at ABC, then don't at pre-lims XYZ, then it moves to DEF and you match advanced, but obviously you don't match at pre-lims XYZ for the same reason you didn't match with ABC advanced. Wouldn't it then go back and just match you at ABC with no pre-lim? It would be weird if that's not how it worked.

The situation where it could matter is say you only wanted a pre-lim if you were in a certain program for advanced, so here's an example:

1. ABC Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim Y
c. Pre-lim Z

2. DEF Hospital advanced
a. Pre-lim X
b. Pre-lim W
c. Pre-lim Z

And so you match advanced at ABC, then don't at pre-lims XYZ, then it moves to DEF and you match advanced, and then you match at pre-lim W. In that case, you'd match at DEF and pre-lim W, instead of ABC with no pre-lim. That's at least how I interpret the wording. I don't think that if you list all the same pre-lims it would in any way hurt your ability to match at the advanced positions.

Again though, I don't know for sure, its not something I'm dealing with so I haven't looked into it a lot.

I hope thats how it works. I need to figure this out for sure. thanks for the help.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I don't think the bolded is true.

I am almost certain that's how it works. If you know how it works differently let me know.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

That is definitely NOT how it works.

The match works down your main match list, where you have listed your Advanced programs, trying to place you into an advanced program. Once you have secured an advanced spot, then the match takes your prelim list and works down it trying to place you. If you fall off the bottom of your prelim list, then you match advanced and can SOAP for a prelim.

There is no way to force the match to try to get a different advanced program if you don't match prelim. Hence, many people list all of their prelim options on their supplemental ROL, just reoganize the order based upon which advanced it's linked to.

Then, the question is whether to list your PRELIMS at the bottom of your main match list, under your advanced programs. That would give you the option of matching prelim only, and then SOAPing for an advanced. But, in that case, you can't SOAP for categorical. So it depends upon what you are looking for.

 

[DOFOSHO]

That is definitely NOT how it works.

The match works down your main match list, where you have listed your Advanced programs, trying to place you into an advanced program. Once you have secured an advanced spot, then the match takes your prelim list and works down it trying to place you. If you fall off the bottom of your prelim list, then you match advanced and can SOAP for a prelim.

There is no way to force the match to try to get a different advanced program if you don't match prelim. Hence, many people list all of their prelim options on their supplemental ROL, just reoganize the order based upon which advanced it's linked to.

Then, the question is whether to list your PRELIMS at the bottom of your main match list, under your advanced programs. That would give you the option of matching prelim only, and then SOAPing for an advanced. But, in that case, you can't SOAP for categorical. So it depends upon what you are looking for.

Ok. thank you for that clarification. so, hypothetically, if my first program was advanced and my second program was categorical, I could be stuck with an advanced, having to soap for a prelim, instead of matching my second choice which was categorical?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yes. It is not uncommon for people to choose to rank all of their Cat programs first for this exact reason. This is mostly an issue in Neuro, which has a combination of A and C programs.

 

[DOFOSHO]

thank you for your help.

 

[IMPD]

Yes. It is not uncommon for people to choose to rank all of their Cat programs first for this exact reason. This is mostly an issue in Neuro, which has a combination of A and C programs.

another reason why specialties that have both Advanced and Categorical are somewhat difficult and why they should all be Categorical.

 

[sergeantpepper]

Hi APD,

Thanks for all your help! Just wanted to make sure I understand correctly. If I have preliminary programs in my primary ROL as well as categorical and advanced programs, if I only matched for a prelim, my match day email would NOT say "Congratulations! You have matched!" without any further information, correct? If I received this message saying I was ineligible for SOAP, it means I either matched at a categorical or advanced and Prelim? Just feared the worst and thought the match thought if I have a Prelim in my primary ROL that I would be content with matching just that. For instance, my primary ROL is:

1. Categorical A
2. Advanced A (with its supplementary Prelim list)
3. Categorical B
4. Categorical C
5. Categorical D
6. Advanced B (with supplementary Prelim list)
6. Prelim A
7. Prelim B
8. Prelim C
9. Prelim D
10. Prelim E

If I only matched at Prelim B (#7 on my primary ROL), would my match day email mention that I only matched at a Prelim and give me a chance to SOAP into as advance?

Sorry if this is redundant, just a little panicky

That is definitely NOT how it works.

The match works down your main match list, where you have listed your Advanced programs, trying to place you into an advanced program. Once you have secured an advanced spot, then the match takes your prelim list and works down it trying to place you. If you fall off the bottom of your prelim list, then you match advanced and can SOAP for a prelim.

There is no way to force the match to try to get a different advanced program if you don't match prelim. Hence, many people list all of their prelim options on their supplemental ROL, just reoganize the order based upon which advanced it's linked to.

Then, the question is whether to list your PRELIMS at the bottom of your main match list, under your advanced programs. That would give you the option of matching prelim only, and then SOAPing for an advanced. But, in that case, you can't SOAP for categorical. So it depends upon what you are looking for.

 

[gutonc]

If I only matched at Prelim B (#7 on my primary ROL), would my match day email mention that I only matched at a Prelim and give me a chance to SOAP into as advance?

Yes.

 

[sergeantpepper]

Yes.

Thank you!