Mandatory Video Interview

[LostinLift]

Well it looks like there will be no opting out this year, everyone applying to ACGME Emergency Medicine programs are required to complete this "standardized" video interview. They will be assessing our professionalism and interpersonal skills from "standardized objective evaluators" that will result in a numerical score along with the actual video being available to programs.

Even though I consider myself completely normal and have been told that I interview well, the extroverted introvert in me loathes the idea of this.

AAMC Standardized Video Interview

Thoughts? Do PDs and others really need another method to evaluate us for interviews? Aren't 2+ SLOEs and the rest of ERAS enough?

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[SamtheWise]

I matched this year (so I was part of the last interview cycle) and I think this is a terrible idea. I feel like applicants with the best advising and resources will have the best video interviews and the rich will get richer. Similarly, how can you assess someone's professionalism and interpersonal skills based off a recorded video? C'mon. give me a break.

Even though they talk about the 'online training' everyone gets, I would still be concerned about bias, after implementation I would be interested to see a study that looks at numerical scores and gender/race/BMI, etc..

I dunno, I don't see the purpose to this, but I guess programs are desperate for a way to help wade through the thousands of apps they get, for better or worse.

 

[High Roller]

Sounds like a great opportunity for AAMC to start charging you guys 50 or 100 bucks to upload your video next year.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Sounds like a great opportunity for AAMC to start charging you guys 50 or 100 bucks to upload your video next year.

Yup. Will be fodder for a bunch of educational research articles as well.

 

[littlejuan]

This sounds pretty terrible. So do they have an actual interviewer on the other side or do they send applicants a list of questions for them to record answers to?

 

[evilbooyaa]

As somebody in a completely different field than EM, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. I would strongly encourage EM PDs to not consider this in their interview considerations.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

As somebody in a completely different field than EM, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. I would strongly encourage EM PDs to not consider this in their interview considerations.

As somebody who matched EM this year, this one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.

 

[phriendlymed]

As somebody in a completely different field than EM, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. I would strongly encourage EM PDs to not consider this in their interview considerations.

The EM PD's were the ones who put this plan into action and probably saw that it was a useful way to stratify applicants. This isn't being forced upon us by the gods of ERAS, but by the leaders in our field.

 

[brabbit2222]

If this is the first step to replacing the in-person interview with an online interview, it's a great thing. Flying to 12+ interviews all over the country, staying in hotels, getting rental cars vs. throwing on a suit in the comfort of your own home? Sign me up.

 

[SamtheWise]

If this is the first step to replacing the in-person interview with an online interview, it's a great thing. Flying to 12+ interviews all over the country, staying in hotels, getting rental cars vs. throwing on a suit in the comfort of your own home? Sign me up.

I totally agree, no unnecessary dinners, no ED tours, no meeting the residents. It makes it even easier to just rank the programs in the order that they're on Doximity.

 

[darklabel]

If this is the first step to replacing the in-person interview with an online interview, it's a great thing. Flying to 12+ interviews all over the country, staying in hotels, getting rental cars vs. throwing on a suit in the comfort of your own home? Sign me up.

I agree but highly doubt thats where they're going with it. Knowing the AAMC and their "**** you and your loan money belongs to us" mentality, this will just be used to further stratify applicants.

 

[brabbit2222]

I totally agree, no unnecessary dinners, no ED tours, no meeting the residents. It makes it even easier to just rank the programs in the order that they're on Doximity.

A lot of what you listed can be done virtually. But you're right, spending half a grand to see the ED layout at a place you're mildly interested in is totally worth it.

 

[kenjixshadow]

3 minutes per video and 6 questions - that's 18 minutes or 9 minutes at 2x speed per applicant.
Are PDs or APDs really going to spend that absurd amount of time? And lol @ IRB approved.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I just don't get the point of this. I mean, its not going to replace the interview, so why have a pre-interview, interview? I'm really not sure how this is going to be used by programs to be honest.

 

[Wtffng]

SDN Members,

I am sharing the reflection below that I originally wrote over at Standardized Video Interview For EM 2018 ERAS • r/medicalschool

I have made some modifications to the post and am updating it here.

Disclaimer: The following is opinion. It's aggressive opinion, because I feel strongly about this, but it's still just opinion. I have edited this in the following days since the initial post. I've been trying find information about what physiological variables this technology assesses, but unsuccessfully. I should be clear that I am not sure if HR and Eye Dilation are measured components, this is what I've been told by people who claim to be familiar with the process- but it may not be accurate.

I am strongly opposed to this. While initially a seemingly forward-thinking idea, it will require a commitment of additional resources of both time and money to the application process. Instead of creating standardized application decision times, they are generating even more work for residencies, while also putting "at-risk" candidates even more at risk.

Potential Issues from the Applicant Perspective.

1. There may be demand to find high quality video and audio recording venues. People may refute this and to them I offer Youtube. Image, design, and quality matter. Schools with the resources will have well-lit studios with backdrops and excellent audio. This happens already, but just with our ERAS photos.

2. You're now going to stress over responses with a computer: Conversations have ebb and flow, body language, and communication- all things that are critical to patient care.

3. I have a soft spot for introverts: I love those who are quirky, those who sometimes are too quiet and take time to get to know. I predict that this will only harm those individuals. Every group (friends, coworkers, etc) is supposed to have a mix of eclectic personalities and I fear this will exclude these characteristics.

4. We don't know the capabilities of this software: The firm used with this video data in other fields measures physiologic variables such as eye dilation and facial reactions, and I've been told that it can measure other things such as HR. They use these measures to predict successful "benchmarks."

The AAMC site states this "AAMC is exploring the possibility of computer scoring as a supplement to human scoring."

AAMC Standardized Video Interview Frequently Asked Questions

What does this mean? It means that all of the "holistic" attributes this was supposed to provide, will now be graded by a computer algorithm and possibly never even viewed by a human. This isn't "sci-fi," this is already happening in other venues.

The company providing this is HireVue, which provides analytical methods of predicting success.

Why am I opposed to this? Residents are supposed to be learners, and we shouldn't dehumanize them by trying to predict their potential during the residency interview process.

"But wtffng, you're just being a luddite." Please view the following from HireVue:



"Forget resumes and profile data, Insights analyzes over 15,000 interactions, hiring, and performance attributes. A data-driven recommendation engine that predicts which candidates are most likely to be top performers. Predict your next performers and find them fast using your company's data!-HireVue

Also-HireVue may own the content you upload. Awesome.



From the Program's Perspective:

1. This won't save time. How on earth are you going to sort through watching video interviews. I believe they won't/can't- they will just use automated software to select/view candidates they want.

Conclusion: In an era of medical education where we are trying to emphasize humanity, why- in perhaps the specialty where interpersonal interactions are most critical, are we turning to a process that potentially dehumanizes medical students

Want to solve the "application crisis?" Institute standardized Accept/Waitlist/Decline "waves" in 2 week increments, limit interviews, limit applications- but don't replace personal interactions with "analytical predictors of success."

All the best,

-wtffng

UPDATES:

I thought to myself, what's next- well we should contact EMRA with our concerns. Please do. SAEM has come out in support of this: (Emergency Medicine Standardized Video Interview) So have representatives from CORD and EMRA.

I should note that I do believe there is scientific merit to the exploration of Video Interview Technology, however, for the above reasons, I feel that this may not represent the most appropriate avenue for it.

 

[intubesteak]

Does it at least tell you how many stars you get? I mean, I would like to know if I'm a 3.5 star vs 4 vs 5 star applicant before I decide where to apply.

 

[EMGui2017]

I can't tell you how glad I am to not have to deal with this garbage. This is the worst idea I have seen in a while.

 

[SamtheWise]

SDN Members,

I am sharing the reflection below that I originally wrote over at Standardized Video Interview For EM 2018 ERAS • r/medicalschool

It appears that SAEM, CORD, and EMRA all support this.

Disclaimer: The following is opinion. It's aggressive opinion, because I feel strongly about this, but it's still just opinion.

I am strongly opposed to this. While initially a seemingly forward-thinking idea, it will require a commitment of additional resources of both time and money to the application process. Instead of creating standardized application decision times, they are generating even more work for residencies, while also putting "at-risk" candidates even more at risk.

From the Interviewee Perspective:

1. You are now going to have to find high quality video and audio recording venues. People will refute this and to them I offer Youtube. Image, design, and quality matter. Schools with the resources will have well-lit studios with backdrops and excellent audio. This happens already, but just with our ERAS photos. My school hires a professional studio to do our ERAS portraits.
   
   
2. You're now going to stress over responses with a computer: Conversations have ebb and flow, body language, and communication- all things that are critical to patient care.
   
   
3. I have a soft spot for introverts: I love those who are quirky, those who sometimes are too quiet and take time to get to know. I predict that this will only harm those individuals. Every group (friends, coworkers, etc) is supposed to have a mix of eclectic personalities (C'mon Breakfast Club) and I fear this will exclude these characteristics.
   
   
4. We don't know the capabilities of this software: The firm used with this video data in other fields measures physiologic variables such as eye dilation and facial reactions, and I've been told that it can measure other things such as HR. They use these measures to predict successful "benchmarks."

The AAMC site states this- "AAMC is exploring the possibility of computer scoring as a supplement to human scoring."

AAMC Standardized Video Interview Frequently Asked Questions

What does this mean? It means that all of the "holistic" attributes this was supposed to provide, will now be graded by a computer algorithm and possibly never even viewed by a human. This isn't "sci-fi," this is already happening in other venues.

The company providing this is HireVue, which provides analytical methods of predicting success.

Why am I opposed to this? Residents are supposed to be learners, and we shouldn't dehumanize them by trying to predict their potential during the residency interview process.

"But wtffng, you're just being a luddite." Please view the following from HireVue:

"Forget resumes and profile data, Insights analyzes over 15,000 interactions, hiring, and performance attributes. A data-driven recommendation engine that predicts which candidates are most likely to be top performers. Predict your next performers and find them fast using your company's data!"-HireVue



Also-HireVue owns the content you upload. Awesome.

From the Program's Perspective:

1. This won't save time. How on earth are you going to sort through watching video interviews. I believe they won't/can't- they will just use automated software to select/view candidates they want.

Conclusion: In an era of medical education where we are trying to emphasize humanity, why- in perhaps the specialty where interpersonal interactions are most critical, are we turning to a process that potentially dehumanizes medical students?

Want to solve the "application crisis?" Institute standardized Accept/Waitlist/Decline "waves" in 2 week increments, limit interviews, limit applications- but don't replace personal interactions with "analytical predictors of success."

All the best,

-wtffng


UPDATE:

I thought to myself, what's next- well we should contact EMRA with our concerns. Please do.

SAEM has come out in support of this:

Emergency Medicine Standardized Video Interview

"The operational pilot will allow us to build upon the research study’s findings and continue exploring psychometric properties of the SVI and any possible relationships between the video scores and other selection criteria."

So has CORD and EMRA.

Yeah you make a lot of good points, I agree that it's a nightmare from an applicant's perspective. I think one overlooked thing is how important the impression that the program makes on the applicant is. In a similar vein to the SVI, from what I understand, MMIs are less subjective and supposedly more reliable than standard interviews but the downside is that applicants don't feel like they get a good 'feel' of the program compared to traditional conversational interviews. One place I interviewed did a rapid series of timed interviews with each interviewer having a specific 'off the wall' question, and it was mildly off putting because I felt like I didn't make a connection with my interviewers.

From an interviewee standpoint, it's nice to at least have the illusion that you can get a feel of the program during a more conversational interview.

 

[intubesteak]

I can see how this would potentially help PDs narrow down the list. Ive interviewed people and it takes all of about 10 seconds and you get a pretty good feel for if they are a goober or not. It seems like a waste for goobers to fly around the country to 18 places only to be judged as a goober in the first 10 seconds. Lose-lose.

But I would really worry about some score by a random third party or even some computer software deciding whether I'm a good applicant or not.

 

[CliveStaples]

It sounds like programs won't actually watch the videos themselves, but rather a third party scorer will apply a standardized scoring assessment to the interview questions. So a PD would have another thing to add to the numeric spreadsheet.

Step 1: 227
Step 2: 239
Video Interview: 8.3/10

I agree that this will become like standardized exams; a better reflection of the applicant's ability to take the test (i.e. prepare for the interview) than a reflection of the actual person who you will be expecting to see patients quickly and with limited information.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

It sounds like programs won't actually watch the videos themselves, but rather a third party scorer will apply a standardized scoring assessment to the interview questions. So a PD would have another thing to add to the numeric spreadsheet.

Step 1: 227
Step 2: 239
Video Interview: 8.3/10

I agree that this will become like standardized exams; a better reflection of the applicant's ability to take the test (i.e. prepare for the interview) than a reflection of the actual person who you will be expecting to see patients quickly and with limited information.

Yep. My suspician is it will become a quick way for programs to filter applicants.

 

[FA5297]

Is there any PD who can explain why this would be helpful to them, and how they would use it? Alternatively, is there any AAEM member who could explain the organization's support for another burdensome hoop for medical students to jump through?

From my lowly medical student perspective, it just looks like another way to milk us for cash. But with actual career consequences.

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

3 minutes per video and 6 questions - that's 18 minutes or 9 minutes at 2x speed per applicant.
Are PDs or APDs really going to spend that absurd amount of time? And lol @ IRB approved.

As I understand it, psychologists review the videos/responses and asses psycholinguistics and psychomotor, body language, etc and the videos are scored on some point scale. The videos are made available but it is the score that will be the quick index for PD/APDs to look at. Our EM clerkship director has joked that PD/APD will probably end up watching the poorly scored applicants for comic relief.

 

[deleted109597]

Is there any PD who can explain why this would be helpful to them, and how they would use it? Alternatively, is there any AAEM member who could explain the organization's support for another burdensome hoop for medical students to jump through?

From my lowly medical student perspective, it just looks like another way to milk us for cash. But with actual career consequences.

You think OSCEs are hard now? Wait until you have video exams. And Kaplan video courses.

 

[MSmentor018]

It sounds like programs won't actually watch the videos themselves, but rather a third party scorer will apply a standardized scoring assessment to the interview questions. So a PD would have another thing to add to the numeric spreadsheet.

Step 1: 227
Step 2: 239
Video Interview: 8.3/10

I agree that this will become like standardized exams; a better reflection of the applicant's ability to take the test (i.e. prepare for the interview) than a reflection of the actual person who you will be expecting to see patients quickly and with limited information.

a 3rd party, you mean like hotornot.com? guess "you shouldn't rock out with your cock out"
are EM applicants so pathologic we need to do a biometric pre residency interrogation?
osler is rolling in his grave right about now

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Well it looks like there will be no opting out this year, everyone applying to ACGME Emergency Medicine programs are required to complete this "standardized" video interview. They will be assessing our professionalism and interpersonal skills from "standardized objective evaluators" that will result in a numerical score along with the actual video being available to programs.

Even though I consider myself completely normal and have been told that I interview well, the extroverted introvert in me loathes the idea of this.

AAMC Standardized Video Interview

Thoughts? Do PDs and others really need another method to evaluate us for interviews? Aren't 2+ SLOEs and the rest of ERAS enough?

The hell?

 

[rkmoto121]

The thought of somehow talking to my computer with any type of personality or confidence is stressing me out. I don't see how psychologists (or whoever is going to "score" us) can judge personality by somebody talking to a machine. Aren't most interviews conversational anyways to see if you are a normal, interesting person they can talk to?

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

The thought of somehow talking to my computer with any type of personality or confidence is stressing me out. I don't see how psychologists (or whoever is going to "score" us) can judge personality by somebody talking to a machine. Aren't most interviews conversational anyways to see if you are a normal, interesting person they can talk to?

If people have professionalism red flags on their application this could potentially be a saving grace? Different schools may have different standards, so this helps to create a benchmark or sorts for professionalism characteristics? I'm spitballing here, I can't see how this is a worthwhile pursuit nor implementation. Then again, I'm just another medical student who would like to minimize the hoop-jumping.

 

[Morzh]

Are we sure this isn't some elaborate belated April Fools joke?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[Petypet]

Seems like someone wants their hand in the cookie jar (being our pocketbooks). We already pay several thousand for interviews, thousands for 3 step exams, why not make another hurdle that gunners will find a way to make their interviews better than others. I agree very progressive thinking but at what cost and what necessity. Interview season is long enough, we aren't going to watch 500 videos, and we already have a way to filter applicants, weird...

 

[WilcoWorld]

When I was involved in discussions with EP PD's about video interviews, the intention had always been to ease the financial burden of traveling on medical students. Statements like, "I never could have afforded to do the number of interviews that students do these days" were commonplace.

That being said, it is entirely possible that this has been thoroughly screwed up during the implementation process, and that all those good intentions are paving a road to somewhere else...

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

This is unbelievable.

There's no way this is going to replace formal interviews. PDs are (reasonably) going to want to meet applicants in person before hiring them for 3-4 years.

Can't wait to see what the cost of this to the applicant is going to be - and the "niche" companies that will start offering overpriced interview prep to freaked out medical students.

If the system truly cared about cost to medical students, we would have a centralized process similar to oral boards where students could make one weekend trip to some random place and knock out 15 interviews in 2-3 days. Tour of EDs could be provided virtually.

...On the other hand, this is GREAT fodder for my upcoming Ayn Rand tribute novel.

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Does anyone have any inkling of what kinds of questions they'd ask in this, and how those questions offer any utility whatsoever?

 

[Arcan57]

Make sure you take a beta-blocker before the interview. Less tremor, less adrenergic surge. And this is completely f$&@ed

 

[Petypet]

Does anyone have any inkling of what kinds of questions they'd ask in this, and how those questions offer any utility whatsoever?

If its anything like other psychometric tests, do you prefer triangles vs squares? Would you rather be a horse or a donkey?
If they want to save money just do skype interviews. Above most specialities, I feel like EM interviews are best suited for a 15 minute conversation. Normal vs abnormal? Could I work a shift with this dude/dudette?

 

[EMGui2017]

This is unbelievable.

There's no way this is going to replace formal interviews. PDs are (reasonably) going to want to meet applicants in person before hiring them for 3-4 years.

Can't wait to see what the cost of this to the applicant is going to be - and the "niche" companies that will start offering overpriced interview prep to freaked out medical students.

If the system truly cared about cost to medical students, we would have a centralized process similar to oral boards where students could make one weekend trip to some random place and knock out 15 interviews in 2-3 days. Tour of EDs could be provided virtually.

...On the other hand, this is GREAT fodder for my upcoming Ayn Rand tribute novel.

Absolutely this, and I would pose that if candidates are really interested in a program then they could then reach out for a second look to their top 2-3 to go visit the hospital and see the facilities if that sort of thing was important to them.

 

[SamtheWise]

Absolutely this, and I would pose that if candidates are really interested in a program then they could then reach out for a second look to their top 2-3 to go visit the hospital and see the facilities if that sort of thing was important to them.

I dunno man, it's so nice to meet the residents, see what everyone at a program is actually like and feel out the vibe of the place during the interview day. I moved several programs that I went into the season thinking would be high to lower numbers on my rank list just because I didn't feel like the residents and faculty were 'my people', and I moved one place I thought would be low really high just because I was surprised by how much I loved the residents and program leadership.

 

[EMGui2017]

I dunno man, it's so nice to meet the residents, see what everyone at a program is actually like and feel out the vibe of the place during the interview day. I moved several programs that I went into the season thinking would be high to lower numbers on my rank list just because I didn't feel like the residents and faculty were 'my people', and I moved one place I thought would be low really high just because I was surprised by how much I loved the residents and program leadership.

I agree and I think this is why it is important to have the opportunity to fly in for a second look at the places you want to see more up close.

 

[Cinclus]

I was thinking this was a late April Fools joke...guess not. Ewww. Glad I'm already in residency.

 

[EMDOC17]

Didn't read all of the posts but has anyone thought of the potential savings with not having to buy suit pants? Tie, shirt, suit top +/- boxers=my interview.

 

[EMDOC17]

Heck use a fuzzy camera and you can turn the hipster suit T-shirt into professional attire. Interview wardrobe $17. Other than that this is really stupid.

 

[CliveStaples]

Didn't read all of the posts but has anyone thought of the potential savings with not having to buy suit pants? Tie, shirt, suit top +/- boxers=my interview.

The video interviews would simply be another part of the ERAS application; you would still go on all the same interviews after.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I think it's a good idea if it replaces you having to go out there and interview! As long as all the other residents and attendings do the same thing so you can use them to decide if you want to go there!

 

[jupiterianvibe]

How many people think the reject pile will have more ugly folk in it? I'm serious.

If travel is an issue, why don't they just do Skype interviews?

This just looks like another thing you'll have to pay for. I hate the idea.

 

[EKGdoc]

This is NOT intended to replace the regular interviews. It's (supposedly) to give programs more information to review along with the rest of your ERAS application, BEFORE deciding to invite you for an interview. It is being done at no cost to the applicants (AAMC is footing the bill). Check out the AAMC website for more information- there's a ton of stuff there about it. Don't know if this vid will help beyond the traditional application stuff. Guess we'll have to wait and see.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[deleted109597]

I think it's a good idea if it replaces you having to go out there and interview! As long as all the other residents and attendings do the same thing so you can use them to decide if you want to go there!

I agree with this except for one caveat. Video interview to be done on arbitrarily decided dates, sure.
But then the students get to choose when they come "tour" the place and get the rest of the contract/benefits/etc speech. That way they could actually, you know, schedule a life around Nov-Jan of 4th year, as opposed to the randomness that currently occurs.

 

[hello1234!]

A standardized scoring system for responses to generic questions sounds like it may have the potential to be unfair to people from different cultural heritages .. ..

 

[GeneralVeers]

A standardized scoring system for responses to generic questions sounds like it may have the potential to be unfair to people from different cultural heritages .. ..

Agreed. Let the racial discrimination lawsuits ensue.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Someone is going to make a lot of money off of this.

 

[anonperson]

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I have heard of.

It never fails to amaze me the amount of mental masturbation academics will do for the sole purpose of screwing over medical students/trainees . It's never a situation where a trainee has to take less tests, spend less time, or spend less money. Always more.

Funny thing is, the old timers get grandfathered in or do some other BS .

If medical students had any sense they would tell these PDs to eat a d!*k and leave that part of the application blank.

My question is the following: is the current system of choosing future residents that bad that sub par residents were being chosen? I think we know the answer to that.

 

[Gru]

[QUOTE="anonperson, post: 18825199, member: 210926] If medical students had any sense they would tell these PDs to eat a d!*k and leave that part of the application blank.[/QUOTE]

I think we're the same page, but to suggest that med students have any power in this is a little off. This mandatory video interview was adopted by all EM programs, so we can't vote through which programs we apply to. And with the excess of applicants every year, we can't afford to burn too many bridges with programs.

If there is to be any successful backlash against this, it will have to come from PDs and other members of selection committees. Hopefully they will realize the dangers of putting too much faith in a new technology, or at least not know how to work these new "scores" into their current algorithms.

If these video interviews are used purely to weed out the super socially awkward (bottom 2% or so) that's one thing, but I can't imagine those applicants are too prevalent in EM.