M1 is Done, Bring on M2! (Ask a Non-Trad [Almost] Anything)

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Thanks for the response.

Do some of the blocks overlap with each other?

Four to five lectures a day - are they different subjects or the same subjects?

Thanks

The science/organ blocks don't overlap. We do have a course that runs longitudinally through the year which is basically teaching physical exam and patient interaction skills. That overlaps with everything and tries to match up...for example while in cardio organ block we also had practice on the cardio exam/detecting murmurs/etc.

The lectures are for the most part different subjects (you might have a part I and part II of something for longer topics).

For example, I pulled up a random day from that cardio block:
9:00 - 10:00 AM
Control Vascular System I

10:00 - 11:00 AM
Control Vascular System Part II

11:00 - 12:00 PM
Supraventricular Arrhythmias

1:00 - 2:00 PM
Pathology of Aortic Dissection & Aneurysm

2:00 - 3:00 PM
Regulation of Arterial Pressure

That's one of the longer days, with five lectures. Here's another random day with three lectures:

9:00 - 10:00 AM
Valvular Heart Disease Part I

10:00 - 11:00 AM
Valvular Heart Disease Part II

11:00 - 12:00 PM
Pathology of Valvular Heart Disease

Another day might have two lectures and mandatory small group, or clinical presentation, or whatever.

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The science/organ blocks don't overlap. We do have a course that runs longitudinally through the year which is basically teaching physical exam and patient interaction skills. That overlaps with everything and tries to match up...for example while in cardio organ block we also had practice on the cardio exam/detecting murmurs/etc.

The lectures are for the most part different subjects (you might have a part I and part II of something for longer topics).

For example, I pulled up a random day from that cardio block:
9:00 - 10:00 AM
Control Vascular System I

10:00 - 11:00 AM
Control Vascular System Part II

11:00 - 12:00 PM
Supraventricular Arrhythmias

1:00 - 2:00 PM
Pathology of Aortic Dissection & Aneurysm

2:00 - 3:00 PM
Regulation of Arterial Pressure

That's one of the longer days, with five lectures. Here's another random day with three lectures:

9:00 - 10:00 AM
Valvular Heart Disease Part I

10:00 - 11:00 AM
Valvular Heart Disease Part II

11:00 - 12:00 PM
Pathology of Valvular Heart Disease

Another day might have two lectures and mandatory small group, or clinical presentation, or whatever.

Thank you for the detailed response. Makes sense now.
 
Your willingness to come and help non-trads on SDN is admirable and thank you for doing that. It has definitely helped me with a lot of similar questions that I have. I am 39 now and looking to apply within the next 2-3 years. I am married with two kids (11 and 6). I am currently enrolled for Intro Chemistry class in order to get my feet wet before I dive in :) . I do have a few questions and I appreciate if you can answer them:

  1. What kind of course work does your school use - system-based? Traditional? If it is different from your previous university system, can you share your thoughts?

  2. How many semesters? How many classes per semester?

  3. Are all of the classes equally difficult? Can you share your rank in the order of difficulty? I want to find out if all of the classes fit the typical analogy of “drinking from a fire hydrant,” or if there are some classes that are easier compared to others.

  4. On a typical week how many hours did you spend studying outside of classroom? Are there some weeks where you have a little bit more flexibility with your time?
Thanks for your help.
My school is also on a systems-based curriculum. It's relatively new, so they're still working out some kinks, but I love it. We started with "Foundations" in the fall, which was two separate blocks, starting with biochem and genetics and ending with microbiology and immunology. We started systems in the spring, and had four blocks so far. Personally, I love that everything is integrated in one course: anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, pathology, histology, physical exam, etc. For me, it sticks better when I can see the big picture. Nothing about med school is like undergrad or grad school; we basically had 3-4 (non-mandatory and available on podcast) lectures every morning, and then occasional mandatory sessions in the afternoons, including physical exam, interdisciplinary workshops with other health profession schools, lectures and workshops about health disparities and inequities, and patient panels where patients come to talk about their experience with chronic diseases and conditions that we learned about during that block. We also had a few really interesting sessions during systems; for example, during our cardiology block, the coordinator set up a session where we got to examine patients with known cardiac conditions and we tried to diagnose them, with a fellow in each room to guide us. Another time, we were assigned to go to the ER and take a detailed history (and physical for those of us who had learned the relevant physical exam stuff by then), and then present to the attending, who was really cool about keeping it low-pressure and all about the learning experience. And we had preceptorships with local physicians who either practice IM or pediatrics.

Our exams are generally biweekly and cover material from lectures and anything else we covered in those two weeks, whether we were focused on gross anatomy, pathology labs, or physical exam. During systems, we also had "shelf" exams (NBME subject exams) after the second block exam. We had two major exams with standardized patients, one in December that assessed our ability to take a detailed history on three different standardized patients, and one in May that required us to do a history & physical, write it up, and then do an oral presentation at the end. Second year will be essentially the same thing with a few more major systems blocks followed by a capstone, and then we have a short amount of dedicated Step 1 study time next spring. We are required to take Step 1 earlier than most other schools because M3 starts May 1. Apparently it's designed that way to give us plenty of time for electives, but I haven't learned many details about the specifics of clerkships yet, other than that upperclassmen and graduates tell me our school prepares us well for the real world.

I know it may sound crazy, but I think med school is a lot of fun. It's hard work and pretty time-consuming, but the way it's structured, we get to see the relevance of what we're learning. I volunteer in the student-run clinic, where med students (M1 through M4) work as a team to do the H&P, come up with a plan, and then present to an attending who approves or modifies our treatment plan. I'm surprised by how much patient interaction we have, and how much practice we get "playing doctor." My class is also extremely diverse, ranging in age from under 20 at the white coat ceremony (!) to 40-something, and from so many different cultural backgrounds and prior career paths. My only regret is that I don't have a little more time than I do to socialize with my class, because they're a really friendly and unique group. But I do get a lot of time with them during PBL and TBL sessions, as well as during the few club activities I do participate in.

I would say that at my school, all of the classes are potentially equally difficult, since they each cover all aspects of that system. There were some systems I enjoyed more than others because of my own interests, and I know what my strengths and weaknesses are, but nothing was particularly overwhelming. Drinking from a fire hose is definitely an apt analogy. I'm glad I had a strong background in upper-level bio courses before starting. If you get a chance after finishing your pre-reqs, it's not a bad idea to take physiology. If I had to identify one course I think helps the most, it's physiology, because it's relevant to everything in medicine, and it's one of the few key subjects that isn't memorization-based. Once you understand it, it's much more intuitive when you're using it again during med school.

I hope that answers your questions; sorry for the novel! As far as work-life balance, I think it's possible for everyone! I'm not a genius, and I think even the most brilliant people still seem to work hard to assimilate the sheer volume of information, but my day looks pretty similar to what Ecce described; I like to be done with everything by 8-9pm and relax with my husband. I usually wake up early to work out, but I'm also pregnant and if I don't get my workout in before my day started, I find every excuse to skip it at the end of the day! I attend class and try to have my work done in time to eat with my family. Honestly, there are some days I am flipping through Anki cards at the dinner table, particularly right before exams. But I usually have one weekend day completely free, or at least free enough to spend half a day doing something fun with the family. Weekends between blocks (every ~5 weeks) are also family time. And during the first two years at least, you have the flexibility to attend a school play or conference or ball game during the week. In that sense, the first half of med school is more flexible than every job I've had! It's definitely doable for parents of kids of any age, I think; it just requires the ability to adapt to different routines every so often and a great support system. There are three other moms in my class, and parents of kids of all ages (from fully grown to toddlers) in the classes above mine. The most important thing is that your family is on board, because you will need the support. My husband is my rock; he's incredibly patient and flexible and encourages me to do whatever I need to do to succeed, since it's important for my entire family. It's important that your spouse is prepared for your schedule to keep changing throughout the process, and for you both to keep communicating about the future and thinking ahead about your five-year plan and matching and all the things that other med students may not have to consider as far in advance. Any questions, feel free to ask!
 
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My school is also on a systems-based curriculum. It's relatively new, so they're still working out some kinks, but I love it. We started with "Foundations" in the fall, which was two separate blocks, starting with biochem and genetics and ending with microbiology and immunology. We started systems in the spring, and had four blocks so far. Personally, I love that everything is integrated in one course: anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, pathology, histology, physical exam, etc. For me, it sticks better when I can see the big picture. Nothing about med school is like undergrad or grad school; we basically had 3-4 (non-mandatory and available on podcast) lectures every morning, and then occasional mandatory sessions in the afternoons, including physical exam, interdisciplinary workshops with other health profession schools, lectures and workshops about health disparities and inequities, and patient panels where patients come to talk about their experience with chronic diseases and conditions that we learned about during that block. We also had a few really interesting sessions during systems; for example, during our cardiology block, the coordinator set up a session where we got to examine patients with known cardiac conditions and we tried to diagnose them, with a fellow in each room to guide us. Another time, we were assigned to go to the ER and take a detailed history (and physical for those of us who had learned the relevant physical exam stuff by then), and then present to the attending, who was really cool about keeping it low-pressure and all about the learning experience. And we had preceptorships with local physicians who either practice IM or pediatrics.

Our exams are generally biweekly and cover material from lectures and anything else we covered in those two weeks, whether we were focused on gross anatomy, pathology labs, or physical exam. During systems, we also had "shelf" exams (NBME subject exams) after the second block exam. We had two major exams with standardized patients, one in December that assessed our ability to take a detailed history on three different standardized patients, and one in May that required us to do a history & physical, write it up, and then do an oral presentation at the end. Second year will be essentially the same thing with a few more major systems blocks followed by a capstone, and then we have a short amount of dedicated Step 1 study time next spring. We are required to take Step 1 earlier than most other schools because M3 starts May 1. Apparently it's designed that way to give us plenty of time for electives, but I haven't learned many details about the specifics of clerkships yet, other than that upperclassmen and graduates tell me our school prepares us well for the real world.

I know it may sound crazy, but I think med school is a lot of fun. It's hard work and pretty time-consuming, but the way it's structured, we get to see the relevance of what we're learning. I volunteer in the student-run clinic, where med students (M1 through M4) work as a team to do the H&P, come up with a plan, and then present to an attending who approves or modifies our treatment plan. I'm surprised by how much patient interaction we have, and how much practice we get "playing doctor." My class is also extremely diverse, ranging in age from under 20 at the white coat ceremony (!) to 40-something, and from so many different cultural backgrounds and prior career paths. My only regret is that I don't have a little more time than I do to socialize with my class, because they're a really friendly and unique group. But I do get a lot of time with them during PBL and TBL sessions, as well as during the few club activities I do participate in.

I would say that at my school, all of the classes are potentially equally difficult, since they each cover all aspects of that system. There were some systems I enjoyed more than others because of my own interests, and I know what my strengths and weaknesses are, but nothing was particularly overwhelming. Drinking from a fire hose is definitely an apt analogy. I'm glad I had a strong background in upper-level bio courses before starting. If you get a chance after finishing your pre-reqs, it's not a bad idea to take physiology. If I had to identify one course I think helps the most, it's physiology, because it's relevant to everything in medicine, and it's one of the few key subjects that isn't memorization-based. Once you understand it, it's much more intuitive when you're using it again during med school.

I hope that answers your questions; sorry for the novel! As far as work-life balance, I think it's possible for everyone! I'm not a genius, and I think even the most brilliant people still seem to work hard to assimilate the sheer volume of information, but my day looks pretty similar to what Ecce described; I like to be done with everything by 8-9pm and relax with my husband. I usually wake up early to work out, but I'm also pregnant and if I don't get my workout in before my day started, I find every excuse to skip it at the end of the day! I attend class and try to have my work done in time to eat with my family. Honestly, there are some days I am flipping through Anki cards at the dinner table, particularly right before exams. But I usually have one weekend day completely free, or at least free enough to spend half a day doing something fun with the family. Weekends between blocks (every ~5 weeks) are also family time. And during the first two years at least, you have the flexibility to attend a school play or conference or ball game during the week. In that sense, the first half of med school is more flexible than every job I've had! It's definitely doable for parents of kids of any age, I think; it just requires the ability to adapt to different routines every so often and a great support system. There are three other moms in my class, and parents of kids of all ages (from fully grown to toddlers) in the classes above mine. The most important thing is that your family is on board, because you will need the support. My husband is my rock; he's incredibly patient and flexible and encourages me to do whatever I need to do to succeed, since it's important for my entire family. It's important that your spouse is prepared for your schedule to keep changing throughout the process, and for you both to keep communicating about the future and thinking ahead about your five-year plan and matching and all the things that other med students may not have to consider as far in advance. Any questions, feel free to ask!

:claps:

I see a lot of similarities and a couple differences between our schools and that's neat. It's actually pretty cool to see how other schools work, especially with regards to handling clinical time. Thanks so much for posting this!
 
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My school is also on a systems-based curriculum. It's relatively new, so they're still working out some kinks, but I love it. We started with "Foundations" in the fall, which was two separate blocks, starting with biochem and genetics and ending with microbiology and immunology. We started systems in the spring, and had four blocks so far. Personally, I love that everything is integrated in one course: anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, pathology, histology, physical exam, etc. For me, it sticks better when I can see the big picture. Nothing about med school is like undergrad or grad school; we basically had 3-4 (non-mandatory and available on podcast) lectures every morning, and then occasional mandatory sessions in the afternoons, including physical exam, interdisciplinary workshops with other health profession schools, lectures and workshops about health disparities and inequities, and patient panels where patients come to talk about their experience with chronic diseases and conditions that we learned about during that block. We also had a few really interesting sessions during systems; for example, during our cardiology block, the coordinator set up a session where we got to examine patients with known cardiac conditions and we tried to diagnose them, with a fellow in each room to guide us. Another time, we were assigned to go to the ER and take a detailed history (and physical for those of us who had learned the relevant physical exam stuff by then), and then present to the attending, who was really cool about keeping it low-pressure and all about the learning experience. And we had preceptorships with local physicians who either practice IM or pediatrics.

Our exams are generally biweekly and cover material from lectures and anything else we covered in those two weeks, whether we were focused on gross anatomy, pathology labs, or physical exam. During systems, we also had "shelf" exams (NBME subject exams) after the second block exam. We had two major exams with standardized patients, one in December that assessed our ability to take a detailed history on three different standardized patients, and one in May that required us to do a history & physical, write it up, and then do an oral presentation at the end. Second year will be essentially the same thing with a few more major systems blocks followed by a capstone, and then we have a short amount of dedicated Step 1 study time next spring. We are required to take Step 1 earlier than most other schools because M3 starts May 1. Apparently it's designed that way to give us plenty of time for electives, but I haven't learned many details about the specifics of clerkships yet, other than that upperclassmen and graduates tell me our school prepares us well for the real world.

I know it may sound crazy, but I think med school is a lot of fun. It's hard work and pretty time-consuming, but the way it's structured, we get to see the relevance of what we're learning. I volunteer in the student-run clinic, where med students (M1 through M4) work as a team to do the H&P, come up with a plan, and then present to an attending who approves or modifies our treatment plan. I'm surprised by how much patient interaction we have, and how much practice we get "playing doctor." My class is also extremely diverse, ranging in age from under 20 at the white coat ceremony (!) to 40-something, and from so many different cultural backgrounds and prior career paths. My only regret is that I don't have a little more time than I do to socialize with my class, because they're a really friendly and unique group. But I do get a lot of time with them during PBL and TBL sessions, as well as during the few club activities I do participate in.

I would say that at my school, all of the classes are potentially equally difficult, since they each cover all aspects of that system. There were some systems I enjoyed more than others because of my own interests, and I know what my strengths and weaknesses are, but nothing was particularly overwhelming. Drinking from a fire hose is definitely an apt analogy. I'm glad I had a strong background in upper-level bio courses before starting. If you get a chance after finishing your pre-reqs, it's not a bad idea to take physiology. If I had to identify one course I think helps the most, it's physiology, because it's relevant to everything in medicine, and it's one of the few key subjects that isn't memorization-based. Once you understand it, it's much more intuitive when you're using it again during med school.

I hope that answers your questions; sorry for the novel! As far as work-life balance, I think it's possible for everyone! I'm not a genius, and I think even the most brilliant people still seem to work hard to assimilate the sheer volume of information, but my day looks pretty similar to what Ecce described; I like to be done with everything by 8-9pm and relax with my husband. I usually wake up early to work out, but I'm also pregnant and if I don't get my workout in before my day started, I find every excuse to skip it at the end of the day! I attend class and try to have my work done in time to eat with my family. Honestly, there are some days I am flipping through Anki cards at the dinner table, particularly right before exams. But I usually have one weekend day completely free, or at least free enough to spend half a day doing something fun with the family. Weekends between blocks (every ~5 weeks) are also family time. And during the first two years at least, you have the flexibility to attend a school play or conference or ball game during the week. In that sense, the first half of med school is more flexible than every job I've had! It's definitely doable for parents of kids of any age, I think; it just requires the ability to adapt to different routines every so often and a great support system. There are three other moms in my class, and parents of kids of all ages (from fully grown to toddlers) in the classes above mine. The most important thing is that your family is on board, because you will need the support. My husband is my rock; he's incredibly patient and flexible and encourages me to do whatever I need to do to succeed, since it's important for my entire family. It's important that your spouse is prepared for your schedule to keep changing throughout the process, and for you both to keep communicating about the future and thinking ahead about your five-year plan and matching and all the things that other med students may not have to consider as far in advance. Any questions, feel free to ask!

Thank you for the very detailed response. I really appreciate it. I really encouraged by both of your responses. I have been scavenging through SDN posts and I find quite a large number of posts that are very discouraging to the non-trad like me. But I am convinced now that it is totally doable, if I put in the hard work. I appreciate the positivity that comes from both of you.

Being a husband and a father my main concern was the possible time-constraint that medical education would put on my family. My wife and I were concerned that I wouldn't be able to spend any time at all with my kids at the crucial stages in their lives. From some of the other posts that I have read in the forums, I was discouraged by thinking that my life would be continuous string of all nighters for M1 and M2 and Residency years. But reading your experience I am truly encouraged. My kids are in no way clingy or needy, and as long as I get to spend some time with them everyday by way of having dinner together or taking them out once a week or something they will be happy. My wife is also very understanding.

Thank you for writing that med school is a lot of fun. I can see myself enjoying it. I have a Bachelor's in Accounting and Master's in Theology, but most of the things that I learned in either of these disciplines were extremely useless in the practical world. I can see myself enjoying learning something that is intellectually stimulating and extremely practical that I can use for the rest of my life.

You mentioned that you are in a newer medical school. I realize that many people don't prefer newer schools for various reasons. At any point in your studies, did you feel like your options are limited because it is a newer school? I do have a newer medical school very close to where I live and that is why I ask this question.

Thanks again.
 
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Thank you for the very detailed response. I really appreciate it. I really encouraged by both of your responses. I have been scavenging through SDN posts and I find quite a large number of posts that are very discouraging to the non-trad like me. But I am convinced now that it is totally doable, if I put in the hard work. I appreciate the positivity that comes from both of you.

Being a husband and a father my main concern was the possible time-constraint that medical education would put on my family. My wife and I were concerned that I wouldn't be able to spend any time at all with my kids at the crucial stages in their lives. From some of the other posts that I have read in the forums, I was discouraged by thinking that my life would be continuous string of all nighters for M1 and M2 and Residency years. But reading your experience I am truly encouraged. My kids are in no way clingy or needy, and as long as I get to spend some time with them everyday by way of having dinner together or taking them out once a week or something they will be happy. My wife is also very understanding.

Thank you for writing that med school is a lot of fun. I can see myself enjoying it. I have a Bachelor's in Accounting and Master's in Theology, but most of the things that I learned in either of these disciplines were extremely useless in the practical world. I can see myself enjoying learning something that is intellectually stimulating and extremely practical that I can use for the rest of my life.

You mentioned that you are in a newer medical school. I realize that many people don't prefer newer schools for various reasons. At any point in your studies, did you feel like your options are limited because it is a newer school? I do have a newer medical school very close to where I live and that is why I ask this question.

Thanks again.
Me? No, my school has been around for a long time; it was the first med school in my state. The curriculum changed a few years ago from traditional to systems-based- maybe that's what you mean? I would definitely be cautious about a newer school, but it could also work in your favor when it comes to admissions, and there are lots of newer schools that are backed by or part of major universities and health systems, so that would give me confidence. For example, Hofstra was opened in 2011 (I believe) and is already really competitive, and is part of a top health system in LI/NYC. So it really depends on a lot of factors.

That brings up another good point, though. You have to decide where you're willing to go. When we decided that I would apply, we were honestly prepared and willing to go anywhere in the country since we didn't have kids in school yet. But I realized pretty quickly that I really wanted to stay where we were, and didn't want to have to move my family. I was lucky to get into a school that was both practically in my backyard and the perfect fit for me. If you decide you like the school that's close to you, start reaching out to them early in the process!
 
Me? No, my school has been around for a long time; it was the first med school in my state. The curriculum changed a few years ago from traditional to systems-based- maybe that's what you mean? I would definitely be cautious about a newer school, but it could also work in your favor when it comes to admissions, and there are lots of newer schools that are backed by or part of major universities and health systems, so that would give me confidence. For example, Hofstra was opened in 2011 (I believe) and is already really competitive, and is part of a top health system in LI/NYC. So it really depends on a lot of factors.

That brings up another good point, though. You have to decide where you're willing to go. When we decided that I would apply, we were honestly prepared and willing to go anywhere in the country since we didn't have kids in school yet. But I realized pretty quickly that I really wanted to stay where we were, and didn't want to have to move my family. I was lucky to get into a school that was both practically in my backyard and the perfect fit for me. If you decide you like the school that's close to you, start reaching out to them early in the process!
Apologies. I may have misunderstood.

How early should I reach out to schools? I am just starting the pre-reqs and it may take 3 years before I apply. Should I be reaching out to the schools now?
 
Apologies. I may have misunderstood.

How early should I reach out to schools? I am just starting the pre-reqs and it may take 3 years before I apply. Should I be reaching out to the schools now?
It really depends on the school, but I don't think it could hurt to reach out to admissions and explain that you're a nontraditional pre-med who lives locally, and that you are very interested in eventually attending that school. Some ADCOMs are not very accessible, but others will give advice and guidance to students who are really interested in their program. Mine apparently is like that, which I did not realize until I had already submitted my application. They will give students honest feedback about their application and advice on how to improve it and be a more competitive applicant in general. This site is an excellent resource too, but if you can meet with an actual admissions person (or correspond with them by email), there's nothing better than getting advice specific to your situation. So give it a shot! The worst they can say is to contact them when you're ready to apply.

For now, your main focus is to take whatever prereqs you have not yet taken and try to get As in as many as possible. You want the grades, but also a solid foundation in the material that will be on the MCAT. I took the MCAT more than five years after graduating and nearly a decade after most of my prereqs, but having such a solid foundation in chemistry and biology really made it easy to study years later. The more you understand now, the easier it will be to succeed on the MCAT while juggling work and family!
 
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Apologies. I may have misunderstood.

How early should I reach out to schools? I am just starting the pre-reqs and it may take 3 years before I apply. Should I be reaching out to the schools now?

Yes, some schools are very awesome about giving feedback early. VCU is an example for me; I met their senior associate admissions dean two years before applying (at the OldPreMeds conference, heh), and she invited me to send over my transcripts, resume, etc. She gave me some very good advice on what I needed to do to make sure I was competitive for them by application time. And two years later when I did get an interview there, she recognized me.

It definitely can't hurt. I would wait a little bit until some pre-reqs are done, just because you do want to have something solid to show for your progress (and make sure your heart's still in it a year + from now...things do change). But a year/year and a half before application, definitely start reaching out. Especially to schools that are either in-state or whose mission you think you align well with.
 
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It really depends on the school, but I don't think it could hurt to reach out to admissions and explain that you're a nontraditional pre-med who lives locally, and that you are very interested in eventually attending that school. Some ADCOMs are not very accessible, but others will give advice and guidance to students who are really interested in their program. Mine apparently is like that, which I did not realize until I had already submitted my application. They will give students honest feedback about their application and advice on how to improve it and be a more competitive applicant in general. This site is an excellent resource too, but if you can meet with an actual admissions person (or correspond with them by email), there's nothing better than getting advice specific to your situation. So give it a shot! The worst they can say is to contact them when you're ready to apply.

For now, your main focus is to take whatever prereqs you have not yet taken and try to get As in as many as possible. You want the grades, but also a solid foundation in the material that will be on the MCAT. I took the MCAT more than five years after graduating and nearly a decade after most of my prereqs, but having such a solid foundation in chemistry and biology really made it easy to study years later. The more you understand now, the easier it will be to succeed on the MCAT while juggling work and family!

What do you recommend - Sending an email / giving a call / setting an appointment to meet in person in order to reach out the to them? I have about three closer to where I live that I am really interested in, which would be ideal for my situation. Also, who do I reach out to? The admissions counselor? The dean? Thanks for the help.

I was a science major in my last two years of high school (out of country) and I did fairly well. I haven't had any exposure ever since, but I am thinking I would be okay. I like the idea of mastering a subject/concept rather than merely preparing for a test which has worked for me very well so far. What I am hearing is that this approach is sort of what works in med school as well?
 
Yes, some schools are very awesome about giving feedback early. VCU is an example for me; I met their senior associate admissions dean two years before applying (at the OldPreMeds conference, heh), and she invited me to send over my transcripts, resume, etc. She gave me some very good advice on what I needed to do to make sure I was competitive for them by application time. And two years later when I did get an interview there, she recognized me.

It definitely can't hurt. I would wait a little bit until some pre-reqs are done, just because you do want to have something solid to show for your progress (and make sure your heart's still in it a year + from now...things do change). But a year/year and a half before application, definitely start reaching out. Especially to schools that are either in-state or whose mission you think you align well with.

Ok... then I will wait till I have a few pre-reqs under my belt. By then I will have a clearer picture.

By the way, do they not have those conferences any more by Oldpremeds?
Do you know any other conferences for the non-traditionals? Do you recommend participating in the premed conferences. I know that UC Davis conducts one every year. Will it help if I attend?
 
Ok... then I will wait till I have a few pre-reqs under my belt. By then I will have a clearer picture.

By the way, do they not have those conferences any more by Oldpremeds?
Do you know any other conferences for the non-traditionals? Do you recommend participating in the premed conferences. I know that UC Davis conducts one every year. Will it help if I attend?

I'm not sure if OPM has one this year. They tend to be in early June...keep an eye on their website. I found the one I attended to be extremely helpful, as I got to ask a lot of questions focused on my particular situation directly to reps at schools I was interested in (and if they didn't have an answer they gave me contacts in admissions to get in touch with). If UC Davis has one and it's convenient for you to get there then sure, by all means attend. It can't hurt.

One thing to look into as well is open houses. Many med schools have these, especially in the fall, and will post dates and sign-ups on their websites. You can get a tour, sometimes request to speak to an admissions person, get questions answered, make contacts...lot of benefits, even if you're not at the application stage yet. It's nice to actually see the campuses and get a gut feel for them. I went to open houses for all my in-state schools and one out of state that was close by.
 
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I'm not sure if OPM has one this year. They tend to be in early June...keep an eye on their website. I found the one I attended to be extremely helpful, as I got to ask a lot of questions focused on my particular situation directly to reps at schools I was interested in (and if they didn't have an answer they gave me contacts in admissions to get in touch with). If UC Davis has one and it's convenient for you to get there then sure, by all means attend. It can't hurt.

One thing to look into as well is open houses. Many med schools have these, especially in the fall, and will post dates and sign-ups on their websites. You can get a tour, sometimes request to speak to an admissions person, get questions answered, make contacts...lot of benefits, even if you're not at the application stage yet. It's nice to actually see the campuses and get a gut feel for them. I went to open houses for all my in-state schools and one out of state that was close by.
Thanks again. I will definitely look into open houses for the schools in my area.
 
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Are you the oldest person in the class? Are there any students over 40 in your school with family?
Have you decided on what specialty you will be choosing for residency?
I've heard that being over 40 severely restricts your residency choices. Is that generally true from what you see at your school? I am asking because I will be in my upper 40's when I get out of school.
 
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Are you the oldest person in the class? Are there people over 40 in your school with family?
Have you decided on what area you will be choosing for residency?
I've heard that being over 40 severely restricts your residency choices. Is that generally true from what you see at your school?

I'm third oldest. Oldest is 41 and married, second oldest is 38 and married with three kids.

Nowhere near deciding on specialty. There are things I'm interested in, but they span a wide range and I'm perfectly okay with that right now. I also fully accept that once I get to rotations I'll see sides of medicine that I didn't even know existed, and that might swing my decision to something I hadn't considered before.

I've actually talked to several physicians in specialties I'm really interested in about my age, and whether they thought being a 40+ intern would negatively affect anything. So far I've gotten only encouragement, even from more physically hectic specialties like EM. My faculty adviser is EM, and when I asked her if she thought going in at 40 was a bad idea she waved a hand and said (and I quote) "Pfft". Anesthesia is another that interests me, and I asked a resident about something I'd read that suggested that it was harder to get a residency in that field if over 30. He looked surprised and said he didn't think that was true at all, that he'd known many "older" residents. Of course, these are just opinions from a few people I've talked to.

It's hard to say because getting a residency depends on many factors that intertwine. If you destroy Step 1, have a solid CV geared towards what you want to do, and are an excellent interviewer, you can probably get whatever you want. Now there are, of course, some specialties that are both intensely grueling and have very long residency periods. Do you want to go into a seven-year neurosurgery residency at 45? I'd say calling that a challenge would be an understatement, and doing that at 45 is a whole other beast than doing say, FM...but it's been done. You're the one that has to decide whether it's worth it.
 
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The SDN community in general, and the nontrad community in particular, has often struggled to retain participation from members after the acceptances roll out. I think nontrads especially can really benefit from hearing about the unique experiences of other nontrads throughout the training process, so threads like this are both much needed and highly valued.

As a result, SDN would like to thank @Eccesignum and @njtrimed for their extensive participation in this thread and encourage them and others to continue to stop by from time to time as they progress on this path. They've each been awarded $10 amazon gift cards as thanks for their contributions.
 
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The SDN community in general, and the nontrad community in particular, has often struggled to retain participation from members after the acceptances roll out. I think nontrads especially can really benefit from hearing about the unique experiences of other nontrads throughout the training process, so threads like this are both much needed and highly valued.

As a result, SDN would like to thank @Eccesignum and @njtrimed for their extensive participation in this thread and encourage them and others to continue to stop by from time to time as they progress on this path. They've each been awarded $10 amazon gift cards as thanks for their contributions.
Excellent! And well deserved!!
 
I'm third oldest. Oldest is 41 and married, second oldest is 38 and married with three kids.

Nowhere near deciding on specialty. There are things I'm interested in, but they span a wide range and I'm perfectly okay with that right now. I also fully accept that once I get to rotations I'll see sides of medicine that I didn't even know existed, and that might swing my decision to something I hadn't considered before.

I've actually talked to several physicians in specialties I'm really interested in about my age, and whether they thought being a 40+ intern would negatively affect anything. So far I've gotten only encouragement, even from more physically hectic specialties like EM. My faculty adviser is EM, and when I asked her if she thought going in at 40 was a bad idea she waved a hand and said (and I quote) "Pfft". Anesthesia is another that interests me, and I asked a resident about something I'd read that suggested that it was harder to get a residency in that field if over 30. He looked surprised and said he didn't think that was true at all, that he'd known many "older" residents. Of course, these are just opinions from a few people I've talked to.

It's hard to say because getting a residency depends on many factors that intertwine. If you destroy Step 1, have a solid CV geared towards what you want to do, and are an excellent interviewer, you can probably get whatever you want. Now there are, of course, some specialties that are both intensely grueling and have very long residency periods. Do you want to go into a seven-year neurosurgery residency at 45? I'd say calling that a challenge would be an understatement, and doing that at 45 is a whole other beast than doing say, FM...but it's been done. You're the one that has to decide whether it's worth it.

Thanks for the answers.

When you say a solid cv (resume) - what does it exactly mean? I have heard this term on the forum and other podcasts many times, but have no clear idea. I have a pretty solid resume so far in my career including professional, educational, and voluntary (non-medical) areas. What would medical school add to that other than the degree + residency that I will be getting once I finish those? What are some of the things that can add to my cv to make it look very impressive to a prospective employer in the future?
 
Thanks for the answers.

When you say a solid cv (resume) - what does it exactly mean? I have heard this term on the forum and other podcasts many times, but have no clear idea. I have a pretty solid resume so far in my career including professional, educational, and voluntary (non-medical) areas. What would medical school add to that other than the degree + residency that I will be getting once I finish those? What are some of the things that can add to my cv to make it look very impressive to a prospective employer in the future?

There's not terribly much to be done when pre-med. Do what you need to do to get into medical school, including volunteering and research (if an option and you're interested...not necessary). In med school is really when the CV-buffing for residency starts. Research done in medical school is regarded differently than UG research, and is more important for some specialties than others. You'll also have the opportunity for leadership in student organizations, publishing case studies and journal articles with a mentor, etc. It's a whole other beast once you get to med school and you'll have plenty of chances to get into it.

It's two different spheres, and your med school should give you guidance once it's time to be thinking about residency. :)
 
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There's not terribly much to be done when pre-med. Do what you need to do to get into medical school, including volunteering and research (if an option and you're interested...not necessary). In med school is really when the CV-buffing for residency starts. Research done in medical school is regarded differently than UG research, and is more important for some specialties than others. You'll also have the opportunity for leadership in student organizations, publishing case studies and journal articles with a mentor, etc. It's a whole other beast once you get to med school and you'll have plenty of chances to get into it.

It's two different spheres, and your med school should give you guidance once it's time to be thinking about residency. :)

Got it. Thanks again!
 
The SDN community in general, and the nontrad community in particular, has often struggled to retain participation from members after the acceptances roll out. I think nontrads especially can really benefit from hearing about the unique experiences of other nontrads throughout the training process, so threads like this are both much needed and highly valued.

As a result, SDN would like to thank @Eccesignum and @njtrimed for their extensive participation in this thread and encourage them and others to continue to stop by from time to time as they progress on this path. They've each been awarded $10 amazon gift cards as thanks for their contributions.

As I told @wholeheartedly in PM, I owe so much to SDN. I joined in 2011, a year before I went back to school as a pre-med, rocking a horrible GPA and fully prepared to be told to give up hope. It was thanks to people here that I was able to understand the road ahead of me and make a more informed decision. It took four more years to rebuild my academics and prepare, but I felt like I had support at every step.

My university had no pre-med advising, so I basically relied on SDN for guidance (special thanks to @Goro, @QofQuimica, @MSmentor018, and many others over the last 6 years). I am so much more than happy to pay it forward and help whoever I can.
 
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As I told @wholeheartedly in PM, I owe so much to SDN. I joined in 2011, a year before I went back to school as a pre-med, rocking a horrible GPA and fully prepared to be told to give up hope. It was thanks to people here that I was able to understand the road ahead of me and make a more informed decision. It took four more years to rebuild my academics and prepare, but I felt like I had support at every step.

My university had no pre-med advising, so I basically relied on SDN for guidance (special thanks to @Goro, @QofQuimica, @MSmentor018, and many others over the last 6 years). I am so much more than happy to pay it forward and help whoever I can.
SDN was a fantastic resource for me when I applied as well. I had already finished my degree and all my prereqs before deciding against applying to med school several years ago, and it wasn't until 2014 that I decided I would really regret it if I didn't pursue my dream. In retrospect, it was a little crazy; I had to take the (then) "new" MCAT, and I hadn't taken psych or sociology in decades, and the rest of my prereqs were 5-10 years old. I had a newborn and a full-time job, and as much as I wanted to ask all the physicians I worked with for advice, I didn't want anyone to know I was planning to apply. Part of it was fear of failing and being embarrassed, and the other more pragmatic side was concern that administration might try to replace me if they thought I was leaving. So I came here for help, and enrolled in a weekend Kaplan MCAT class. Finances were tight, so it was really important for me to target my applications so that I didn't have to spend a fortune, but also wouldn't need to reapply. Thanks to the great advice I got here, I ended up only needing to submit a handful of secondary applications to carefully chosen schools, and I was successful the first time around despite being a very nontraditional and imperfect applicant. After hearing about how some of my friends struggled with admissions, I really appreciated how valuable this site was as a resource, provided you use it correctly. There is a ton of terrible advice floating around out there (and I'm sure some here too), but there are some really knowledgeable and helpful people on SDN who are really great about giving advice tailored to your unique situation, if you seek them out. I'm happy to help in any way I can, because this process can be daunting and unnecessarily expensive and frustrating if you don't know how to approach it. The most important thing besides the obvious (grades, MCAT, resume) is crafting your application into your unique story, and submitting it early. Once you figure out how to do that, the rest falls into place.
 
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Thanks for the answers.

When you say a solid cv (resume) - what does it exactly mean? I have heard this term on the forum and other podcasts many times, but have no clear idea. I have a pretty solid resume so far in my career including professional, educational, and voluntary (non-medical) areas. What would medical school add to that other than the degree + residency that I will be getting once I finish those? What are some of the things that can add to my cv to make it look very impressive to a prospective employer in the future?
As Ecce said, you don't have to worry about residency applications yet! Med schools love to see volunteering of all kinds (which you have), so at this point, you just need to demonstrate an interest in the medical field. I think the ideal thing for you would be to find some sort of clinical research program that doesn't require a huge time investment, or something along those lines. I don't know where you live or how easy that kind of thing is to come by; I was in the city and it was easy to find opportunities like that. It's not really critical; when you're working and have a family, they won't expect you to do a tremendous amount besides that- but a little hospital volunteering or clinical research would definitely demonstrate interest and familiarity with the medical field. Once you're in medical school, you'll probably want to find a few activities that are meaningful to you to add to your resume, and you won't really know what that might entail until you get there. Right now your main objective is to prove you have the academic capability by succeeding in your prereqs and on the MCAT.
 
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As Ecce said, you don't have to worry about residency applications yet! Med schools love to see volunteering of all kinds (which you have), so at this point, you just need to demonstrate an interest in the medical field. I think the ideal thing for you would be to find some sort of clinical research program that doesn't require a huge time investment, or something along those lines. I don't know where you live or how easy that kind of thing is to come by; I was in the city and it was easy to find opportunities like that. It's not really critical; when you're working and have a family, they won't expect you to do a tremendous amount besides that- but a little hospital volunteering or clinical research would definitely demonstrate interest and familiarity with the medical field. Once you're in medical school, you'll probably want to find a few activities that are meaningful to you to add to your resume, and you won't really know what that might entail until you get there. Right now your main objective is to prove you have the academic capability by succeeding in your prereqs and on the MCAT.

Thanks again for all the advise!
 
Thank you so much for answering all these questions. If you are still available to answer more, I would love to know what courses you recommend during the year between applying and matriculating. If I don't get in this year, I know I'll need a higher GPA, so I want to take some upper level science classes. I've already taken Orgo 1 & 2, Advanced Biochem 1 & 2, Cell Bio, and Genetics. Are there more bio or chemistry classes that you recommend for gearing up for med school? It looks like Immunology, Microbio, and Physiology - any more?
 
Thank you so much for answering all these questions. If you are still available to answer more, I would love to know what courses you recommend during the year between applying and matriculating. If I don't get in this year, I know I'll need a higher GPA, so I want to take some upper level science classes. I've already taken Orgo 1 & 2, Advanced Biochem 1 & 2, Cell Bio, and Genetics. Are there more bio or chemistry classes that you recommend for gearing up for med school? It looks like Immunology, Microbio, and Physiology - any more?

You've mentioned the ones I'd say are the most important. If you have the opportunity to take things like epidemiology/public health, nutrition, or embryology, an introduction can be nice. If you have access to a basic neuroscience course, behavioral science, histology, or pathology, those might also be something to consider.

Apart from that, take upper-division courses that interest you! I took a random UG class in medical parasitology that was meant to be filler but unexpectedly got me really interested, and once I got here I sought out an opportunity to do research in it. I don't know what your institution offers, but browse the catalog and if something jumps out at you then take the opportunity.
 
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I second embryology, because it's so important but it seems like many schools (including mine) don't really teach it, but expect you to know it. It would have been nice to have a "big picture" view of it before delving into the specifics of each system. I also cannot overstate how helpful physiology is- if you really get it, it will save you a ton of time trying to understand it, because it becomes almost intuitive. Finally, pharmacology happened to be extremely helpful for me. I don't know how accessible it is to most undergrads, but that was my major and I honestly don't have to study drugs, except to refresh myself on the specific clinical details. Once you understand the mechanisms and pathways of different drug groups, the memorization part becomes simple and requires little effort.
 
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I also have a question on studying. It seems like everyone really likes Anki, but I have a really hard time memorizing with flashcards. Are there other systems that you all have found helpful? I do find that writing things down on paper in a specific order and trying to make connections between them is helpful. Any other suggestions?
 
I also have a question on studying. It seems like everyone really likes Anki, but I have a really hard time memorizing with flashcards. Are there other systems that you all have found helpful? I do find that writing things down on paper in a specific order and trying to make connections between them is helpful. Any other suggestions?

Anki works for me because I don't just paste information and memorize. I use image occlusion, cloze deletions of different parts of sentences, 2nd order questions I write for myself, etc. The act of making my own cards also helps it stick, versus using someone else's cards. But that won't work for everyone. Do what works for you. Some people love Anki. Some people love Firecracker (I tried it, did nothing for me). Some people like to draw everything, or use models (during anatomy I used to have party time with a plastic skeleton and a few hundred post-its), or coloring books, or re-listening to lectures while they use the exercise bike at the gym...whatever does it for you, do that.

You may find you need to adjust learning strategies for different classes. The content of anatomy is a different kind of material than biochemistry, which will be different from behavioral science. In biochem, the 6 foot whiteboard (highly recommended btw, got ours from Office Depot) my roommate and I installed in the living room was invaluable. In neuro, not so much. In embryology I used a lot of YouTube to look up animations of development, because it was hard for me to make sense of some of them until I saw the moving connections between structure A at 2 weeks versus structure A at 6 weeks.

Don't expect to know exactly what works for you before you get there. Have an idea, but be willing to be flexible and ask for help from your peers or school resources. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I nearly failed my first anatomy exam. Thought I knew how I needed to study and I was very wrong, but once I got over the initial panic and readjusted my effort I started doing far better. It happens to a lot of people, it might happen to you. Come into it knowing you'll need to adapt to survive, and stay open to trying new things.
 
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@Eccesignum - congrats on finishing MS1. You helped me a lot last summer with apps and more. Now one question, sometimes if I don't do well or study well, I have a tendency to say it's b.c I'm a non trad , I took my last science classes 3-4 years ago and mcat 2 years ago! Does being more recently graduated from ugrad help in terms of brain sharpness or studying or ...what suggestions advice do you have ? I know this thinking doesn't make much sense!
 
@Eccesignum - congrats on finishing MS1. You helped me a lot last summer with apps and more. Now one question, sometimes if I don't do well or study well, I have a tendency to say it's b.c I'm a non trad , I took my last science classes 3-4 years ago and mcat 2 years ago! Does being more recently graduated from ugrad help in terms of brain sharpness or studying or ...what suggestions advice do you have ? I know this thinking doesn't make much sense!

Take your excuses and toss them out the window.

UG didn't prep me for the pace of medical school. I think being used to UG actually hurts some people...they'd gotten used to an atmosphere where you can skip class whenever, cram the night before a test, and be fine. Those strats will wreck you in medical school. A lot of my younger classmates have also never before had to do serious time management, or had to delay some fun thing because there's work to do. On the other hand, non-trads tend to have more experience with time sacrifices, which helps.

It's going to be a hard transition. It is for trads and non-trads alike. But never write off anything as 'oh, it's just because I'm older'. If you get distracted easily by the internet, install one of those programs that lets you lock your browser for a span of time. Turn off your phone. Set a study timer and take a 10 minute break every hour. Set manageable study goals and stick to them. If you have problems with the material itself, make use of your school's resources. Talk to your professors and ask for resources. Consult your career office and/or student affairs. Talk to your adviser. Talk to other students who are doing well, they're often your best resource. I've used my school's peer tutoring system twice for difficult material, and fully intend to do it again if I hit something I can't figure out on my own. I've also informally asked others in my class for help, and informally given help when I was solid on something but others were having trouble with it.

Instead of "oh well", tell yourself "I can do better, let me figure out how".
 
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As a non-trad, I've had 13 years off from school and just finished my first year back. I am in the middle of the application process and don't technically need to do anything extra this year, but definitely want to keep working on classes, research, and clinical volunteering. I feel like we have a different situation than the typical undergrad who graduates and takes a gap year while applying because I've had 13 gap years. What did you do during your application year? Were you continuing other classes, volunteering, etc?


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As a non-trad, I've had 13 years off from school and just finished my first year back. I am in the middle of the application process and don't technically need to do anything extra this year, but definitely want to keep working on classes, research, and clinical volunteering. I feel like we have a different situation than the typical undergrad who graduates and takes a gap year while applying because I've had 13 gap years. What did you do during your application year? Were you continuing other classes, volunteering, etc?


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I had gone back for a bachelor's in this process, so I was in my technical senior year of university during application year (I'm a non-trad trad I guess, hah), so I was whittling down my final classes, working my two jobs, and carrying on with volunteering that I had already been doing for years. Not much change.

Just do whatever you would normally do. Keep in the back of your mind that the fall is high time for interviews, so you may face having to take time off/readjust schedules/etc. Make sure your supervisors (and professors, if you're in school) know what's up if they need to be involved in your scheduling, and don't start anything new that expects you to be on a rigid schedule. Same for spring...hopefully you'll have this locked down by spring but some people are still interviewing into March and April.
 
1. What games are you looking forward to after E3?
2. Has your meal prep changed since school started?
 
1. What games are you looking forward to after E3?
2. Has your meal prep changed since school started?

Can we just talk about how everything is coming out after M2 has started? Why oh why must summer be such a wasteland? My beautiful new Uncharted, my XCOM2 expansion, my new Assassin's Creed, why do you wait until after August when all I can do is gaze upon you lovingly (also remaster of Shadow of the Colossus, what whaaaaaaaaat).

Haha, meal prep. I eat terribly, I totally admit that. Gained about 6 pounds through the academic year. This year I'm going to try to do more meal prep Sunday type of things (funny you bring that up because I was just looking at meal prep sites yesterday).

If anything, a major related change that's happened is that I've started to budget more aggressively. I never really used to, bad as that sounds. Having a good job in a low COL area, being single, no kids, no mortgage, no major debt previously, I never had any concerns about being short on money. Now, trying to live on the low 20s in a major city with every borrowed dollar accruing interest and a "paycheck" only once every six months...yeah. Advice to anyone going into this, whether it's an Excel sheet or YNAB or Mint, get yourself something to keep track of exactly where your money has to go between loan disbursements. For many non-trads the financial adjustment will be a system shock. Especially if you're one of those types, like me, that previously rarely thought twice about grabbing something to eat while out, or going to have a drink with friends, or many other little dollar-suckers that were just a shrug before. Food's been a big one for me.
 
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Can we just talk about how everything is coming out after M2 has started? Why oh why must summer be such a wasteland? My beautiful new Uncharted, my XCOM2 expansion, my new Assassin's Creed, why do you wait until after August when all I can do is gaze upon you lovingly (also remaster of Shadow of the Colossus, what whaaaaaaaaat).

Haha, meal prep. I eat terribly, I totally admit that. Gained about 6 pounds through the academic year. This year I'm going to try to do more meal prep Sunday type of things (funny you bring that up because I was just looking at meal prep sites yesterday).

If anything, a major related change that's happened is that I've started to budget more aggressively. I never really used to, bad as that sounds. Having a good job in a low COL area, being single, no kids, no mortgage, no major debt previously, I never had any concerns about being short on money. Now, trying to live on the low 20s in a major city with every borrowed dollar accruing interest and a "paycheck" only once every six months...yeah. Advice to anyone going into this, whether it's an Excel sheet or YNAB or Mint, get yourself something to keep track of exactly where your money has to go between loan disbursements. For many non-trads the financial adjustment will be a system shock. Especially if you're one of those types, like me, that previously rarely thought twice about grabbing something to eat while out, or going to have a drink with friends, or many other little dollar-suckers that were just a shrug before. Food's been a big one for me.

I'll definitely be careful about my food budget, thanks! 2018 will be a great year for gaming. I think I can finish the South Park game in under 20 hours at least, but there are some more time intensive games I won't be able to touch until next summer : (.
 
I'll definitely be careful about my food budget, thanks! 2018 will be a great year for gaming. I think I can finish the South Park game in under 20 hours at least, but there are some more time intensive games I won't be able to touch until next summer : (.

I haven't even gotten to play Mass Effect: Andromeda yet :( Woe is us.

Yeah, food budget is a killer. I think that's the biggest outside-home money sink I have. Doesn't help that I live in a city with fantastic food, haha. By the way, YNAB (which is what I use now for budgeting) gives students a year free if you email them with proof that you're in school. Might be worth checking out, it's been a huge help for me.
 
@Eccesignum - congrats on finishing MS1. You helped me a lot last summer with apps and more. Now one question, sometimes if I don't do well or study well, I have a tendency to say it's b.c I'm a non trad , I took my last science classes 3-4 years ago and mcat 2 years ago! Does being more recently graduated from ugrad help in terms of brain sharpness or studying or ...what suggestions advice do you have ? I know this thinking doesn't make much sense!

Another non-trad rising 2nd year chiming in...

The ones who did have an edge in my school were actually people who did graduate classes. However, this edge fades as you do other blocks. You could be an anatomy master and do well in MSK, but get crushed in renal, cardiology, or respiratory. There were times that I wish I wasn't so far removed from my graduate classes I did 4-5 years back, but this is not key to succeeding in medical school.

The one thing medical students soon realize is that isn't about what knowledge you have coming in, its about how quickly you understand and retain knowledge. The quicker you are at this, the better you will do well in medical school. What it really comes down to is efficiency of your learning techniques. If you are a visual learner, then pictures help (making doodles in your notes, anki cards with picture, etc.) If you are an auditory learner, then saying things out loud may help. Of course the one thing repeated over and over on SDN is ironically the most important study technique, repetition! The more times you see it the better you will remember.

When you get in, make sure you do these thing. First, find a study group that you click with and meet up every so often to get certain details down. Second, go to the learning specialist and speak to them every so often about how to study. Third, be efficient with your time because you will feel like you have no time at all (not exactly true its just that we are just inefficient in general with it). It is hard to prepare for medical school because nothing really gives you the proper pace of what to expect and how to adapt. For instance, I could condense one year of my masters into on semester and it would even match the pace I went at during 1st year.

So for now just enjoy your summer, cause you don't want to burn yourself out when you do enter first year.
 
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The ones who did have an edge in my school were actually people who did graduate classes.
Or strong undergrad sciences! I did a Master's after applying to help me get into my target school. It did so little to help me, compared with the physiology and pharmacology that my undergrad evidently drilled into the very core of my existence 7-8 years ago lol!
Another non-trad rising 2nd year chiming in...
The one thing medical students soon realize is that isn't about what knowledge you have coming in, its about how quickly you understand and retain knowledge. The quicker you are at this, the better you will do well in medical school. What it really comes down to is efficiency of your learning techniques. If you are a visual learner, then pictures help (making doodles in your notes, anki cards with picture, etc.) If you are an auditory learner, then saying things out loud may help. Of course the one thing repeated over and over on SDN is ironically the most important study technique, repetition! The more times you see it the better you will remember.

When you get in, make sure you do these thing. First, find a study group that you click with and meet up every so often to get certain details down. Second, go to the learning specialist and speak to them every so often about how to study. Third, be efficient with your time because you will feel like you have no time at all (not exactly true its just that we are just inefficient in general with it). It is hard to prepare for medical school because nothing really gives you the proper pace of what to expect and how to adapt. For instance, I could condense one year of my masters into on semester and it would even match the pace I went at during 1st year.

So for now just enjoy your summer, cause you don't want to burn yourself out when you do enter first year.
This is all true too! I did my Master's in two semesters while working full-time, and found that "just" going to med school was at least as exhausting and time-consuming than that was. It's especially tough at the beginning, because you'll likely be playing around with different ways to become more efficient at studying, which is time-consuming until you nail down what works for you. The only thing I'd recommend doing ahead of time if you haven't yet is downloading and playing with Anki. I happened to learn it during grad school and it was immensely helpful for me for several reasons, but a lot of my classmates discovered it in the middle of M1 as people shared their Anki decks with the class. Even if you end up hating it and not using it, it's worth trying it now in case you do like it, because if you how to use it, you can actually make cards during lecture in place of taking notes and it's a huge time saver. If you're just learning it mid-semester, it's a little frustrating to try getting the hang of it while juggling classes and everything else.
 
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I asked this on the pre-med forum, but thought you all might be more helpful. I need to take an English class to fulfill that requirement for some schools. I was originally supposed to take it over the summer, but after a mix up I dropped the class and now it's full. I am starting a new job, continuing one research position, and starting a new research position all next week (when the class would start). We also just relocated and we're supposed to do work on the house we are now living in. Do you recommend taking the class during the fall when most, if not all, of my secondary applications would be complete? I would probably have to give up one bio class (I've fulfilled all the bio requirements at this point). I don't have a good feel for exactly how crazy this summer is going to get and I am wondering if I should leave some free time to write my applications. And based on what you all have said, it sounds like I won't necessarily be putting myself in a bad position if I don't take that many additional biology classes before medical school.
 
I asked this on the pre-med forum, but thought you all might be more helpful. I need to take an English class to fulfill that requirement for some schools. I was originally supposed to take it over the summer, but after a mix up I dropped the class and now it's full. I am starting a new job, continuing one research position, and starting a new research position all next week (when the class would start). We also just relocated and we're supposed to do work on the house we are now living in. Do you recommend taking the class during the fall when most, if not all, of my secondary applications would be complete? I would probably have to give up one bio class (I've fulfilled all the bio requirements at this point). I don't have a good feel for exactly how crazy this summer is going to get and I am wondering if I should leave some free time to write my applications. And based on what you all have said, it sounds like I won't necessarily be putting myself in a bad position if I don't take that many additional biology classes before medical school.
I would say getting the required course out of the way is your best bet, if you already have plenty of bio courses.
 
@Eccesignum - congrats on finishing MS1. You helped me a lot last summer with apps and more. Now one question, sometimes if I don't do well or study well, I have a tendency to say it's b.c I'm a non trad , I took my last science classes 3-4 years ago and mcat 2 years ago! Does being more recently graduated from ugrad help in terms of brain sharpness or studying or ...what suggestions advice do you have ? I know this thinking doesn't make much sense!
Take your excuses and toss them out the window.

UG didn't prep me for the pace of medical school. I think being used to UG actually hurts some people...they'd gotten used to an atmosphere where you can skip class whenever, cram the night before a test, and be fine. Those strats will wreck you in medical school. A lot of my younger classmates have also never before had to do serious time management, or had to delay some fun thing because there's work to do. On the other hand, non-trads tend to have more experience with time sacrifices, which helps.

Instead of "oh well", tell yourself "I can do better, let me figure out how".

Also a rising M2, non-traditional (ex-professional musician, science classes from CC, 33 yo, married, etc). Just wanted to chime in and second what Ecce said about the excuses of being a non-traditional, of older science courses, and so on: Definitely don't let those ideas weigh you down, because they WILL hold you back. Med school is quite difficult and will demand a lot of time and work, and it will leave you no room for excuses. I used to say the same things to myself, letting myself get a pass because "I don't have a strong science background", or "I'm a decade older than so many of my classmates", or "I don't have the stamina from coming straight from a difficult undergrad"... I'll admit to struggling with C's, giving it everything I thought I had and still coming up short of the grades I wanted (even though everyone told me C's were GREAT for me, the non-traditional). The cause of my less-than-desired grade? I was holding myself back with a thought process that permitted me to do less than I was capable of. The last two months of MS1 consisted of the Renal/Endocrine system, which I found to be the most difficult portion of medical school so far (more difficult than Cardio/Pulm for me). I dug deep, threw out my excuses, tried harder, tried studying differently, and finished with a solid B.

Mindset is incredibly powerful. Feed yourself with a thought process that drives you forward, not one that holds you back.

Also, Ecce: CONGRATS!!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!! WE MADE IS AND ARE M2's!!!!!!!!! :highfive:
 
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Do you have any advice for non-traditional students regarding filling out the Activities section of AMCAS?
 
Also a rising M2, non-traditional (ex-professional musician, science classes from CC, 33 yo, married, etc). Just wanted to chime in and second what Ecce said about the excuses of being a non-traditional, of older science courses, and so on: Definitely don't let those ideas weigh you down, because they WILL hold you back. Med school is quite difficult and will demand a lot of time and work, and it will leave you no room for excuses. I used to say the same things to myself, letting myself get a pass because "I don't have a strong science background", or "I'm a decade older than so many of my classmates", or "I don't have the stamina from coming straight from a difficult undergrad"... I'll admit to struggling with C's, giving it everything I thought I had and still coming up short of the grades I wanted (even though everyone told me C's were GREAT for me, the non-traditional). The cause of my less-than-desired grade? I was holding myself back with a thought process that permitted me to do less than I was capable of. The last two months of MS1 consisted of the Renal/Endocrine system, which I found to be the most difficult portion of medical school so far (more difficult than Cardio/Pulm for me). I dug deep, threw out my excuses, tried harder, tried studying differently, and finished with a solid B.

Mindset is incredibly powerful. Feed yourself with a thought process that drives you forward, not one that holds you back.

Also, Ecce: CONGRATS!!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!! WE MADE IS AND ARE M2's!!!!!!!!! :highfive:

Yessss keep going strong! :highfive:
 
Do you have any advice for non-traditional students regarding filling out the Activities section of AMCAS?

The activities section is where non-trads can really shine. People tend to fill these out like it's a resume -- they list a bunch of job duties and that's it. Treat your ECs as a section just as valuable as the PS, as a place to weave parts of your story together into a cohesive story of you.

For mine, I spent 1-2 sentences on the duties aspect, then spent the rest talking about what I learned from it (especially in context of how it will make me a better physician). This doesn't have to be heavy-handed. It's a matter of stopping to think about what kind of qualities you have that you want to showcase as valuable, and using your ECs to tell a story of how you became you.

If you'd like to see examples of mine, PM me.
 
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Hi @Eccesignum

As others have already stated, this thread and this forum is a godsend!!

I'm a working engineer with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering in 2013.
Currently standing at the ledge and looking over the edge, about to make the jump down the rabbit hole we call the Medical School application process!!

I'm so overwhelmed, so many options, so many paths to take...

Would love some advice from all you non-trads.

I have a low uGrad GPA (no excuse)... 2.9 cGPA, haven't calculated sGPA.
I already know it's going to be an uphill battle from here, I know the stats.
Even formal Post-Bacc programs are going to be a reach for me. Eh, oh well, moving on.
I just want to know what I can do to increase my chances and if there are other success stories with a similar backstory to mine.

1) Should I retake all my pre-reqs?
2) I live in California, so I'm considering UCLA Extension Pre-Medical Certificate, yay or nay?
3) How about doing all my pre-req's at a CC since I'm also working a full time job?
3) What kinds of EC should I start? I already am a volunteer tutor for homeless children, but I'm thinking I should drop that to open up more time for clinical EC.
4) Any other advice?
5) Finally, sorry about all these questions lol
I'm excited that I'm finally ignoring the naysayers and pursuing my dream
 
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Hi @Eccesignum

As others have already stated, this thread and this forum is a godsend!!

I'm a working engineer with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering in 2013.
Currently standing at the ledge and looking over the edge, about to make the jump down the rabbit hole we call the Medical School application process!!

I'm so overwhelmed, so many options, so many paths to take...

Would love some advice from all you non-trads.

I have a low uGrad GPA (no excuse)... 2.9 cGPA, haven't calculated sGPA.
I already know it's going to be an uphill battle from here, I know the stats.
Even formal Post-Bacc programs are going to be a reach for me. Eh, oh well, moving on.
I just want to know what I can do to increase my chances and if there are other success stories with a similar backstory to mine.

1) Should I retake all my pre-reqs?
2) I live in California, so I'm considering UCLA Extension Pre-Medical Certificate, yay or nay?
3) How about doing all my pre-req's at a CC since I'm also working a full time job?
3) What kinds of EC should I start? I already am a volunteer tutor for homeless children, but I'm thinking I should drop that to open up more time for clinical EC.
4) Any other advice?
5) Finally, sorry about all these questions lol
I'm excited that I'm finally ignoring the naysayers and pursuing my dream


This would probably be best suited as it's own thread.
 
Woops sorry. Will start a new thread.
Wasn't sure if my questions warranted a new thread.
There were so many similar ones...

sometimes its a grey area. since you've got lots of questions related to your specific circumstances, that's usually better as its own thread. also don't forget there might be other existing threads on your topics. CCs comes up a lot as well as various extension programs.
 
what are the top 5 things you all would suggest to make the transition to med school easier? like stuff to do before starting or in the first couple weeks?
 
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