Low GPA: chances into Carribbean Med School?

[Skip Intro]

... but that the warnings and negative SDN attitude are justified.

And, I would ask you why you are emotionally involved in any of it?

Perhaps what you put down doesn't communicate the position you think it does, if you think of yourself as not defensive of the school.

And, perhaps your own negative personal bias leads you to interpret my neutral position in a necessarily negative way, as you freely admit.

-Skip

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[GypsyHummus]

With a question like that and your GPA, You time would be better spent trying to find a pharmacy school that would take a chance on you.

I graduated with a degree in bio (2.78 gpa). I haven't taken the MCAT yet and my ECs are mainly various volunteer activities including hospital patient care. What's an ideal MCAT score to shoot for to get into mid tier Caribbean schools like St. Matthew's, AUA and the like?

 

[ill be a doc soon]

Do NOT go to the Carib. Do a post-bacc and study your ass off for the MCAT. See The Million Dollar Mistake for more info.

Million $ Mistake

This idiot got into a DO school but he decided to go to SGU. Thats his bloody fault. Its well known that even for the best caribbean grads, ortho is unrealistic. He claimed "SGU's match list was well hidden" so he wasnt sure how many people got ortho. I beg to disagree: SGU - Residency Appointment Directory. It shows that 1 person got ortho... in Canada.
Literally, SGU flaunts their residency placement list right when you go on their website. Its one of their selling points. This million $ mistake guy couldnt find it and make an informed decision?
Who actually chooses to go and live in a 3rd world country over being in the United States. Come on!

 

[GypsyHummus]

That is a massive graduating class. Taking into account that this list is after the 50% matriculation rate, makes my head spin

This idiot got into a DO school but he decided to go to SGU. Thats his bloody fault. Its well known that even for the best caribbean grads, ortho is unrealistic. He claimed "SGU's match list was well hidden" so he wasnt sure how many people got ortho. I beg to disagree: SGU - Residency Appointment Directory. It shows that 1 person got ortho... in Canada.
Literally, SGU flaunts their residency placement list right when you go on their website. Its one of their selling points. This million $ mistake guy couldnt find it and make an informed decision?
Who actually chooses to go and live in a 3rd world country over being in the United States. Come on!

 

[shouldigomd]

That is a massive graduating class. Taking into account that this list is after the 50% matriculation rate, makes my head spin

Your head is spinning on a number that is spread via speculation and rumor. Common trend is to blend attrition rates of all carib schools.

Here are some facts from my class at SGU for what its worth:
-The majority (15-20%) of people drop out in the 1st semester. It wasn't hard to identify many of these people (partiers, intellectual disability, poor work ethic, etc)
-In my class the attrition rate from start to match was around 30%
-What you see on match list is technically 2 classes as there are January / august semesters which eventually apply to the same match cycle.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

I know this has been said before but im still baffled by the fact that we are all OK with a 30% attrition rate.........with that percentage that means that if the august class is lets say 1000 students, 30% is 300 students! thats more than most US schools entering class in itself! idk that 30% just scares me just my $0.02

 

[shouldigomd]

I know this has been said before but im still baffled by the fact that we are all OK with a 30% attrition rate.........with that percentage that means that if the august class is lets say 1000 students, 30% is 300 students! thats more than most US schools entering class in itself! idk that 30% just scares me just my $0.02

As I mentioned previously the big chunk are eliminated right off the bat. Most people aren't spending 3 years and 100Ks of $$ and then being kicked. After basic sciences you wont be kicked unless you fail the boards. Pretty hard to do that imo. Reality hits fast. What would be much worse is if the attrition was lower but students were having trouble securing clinical spots, passing the boards, and matching. Having an MD without being able to do anything with it is a reality for many carib schools that we should be worried about. I completely agree that those are scams that we should be fearful for. The opportunity is not fair and even if you work hard / do well the odds are not in your favor.

30% attrition is what happens when you accept a bunch of "sub standard" students. You are inviting a bunch of people to a race when they haven't trained properly. SGU / Ross are giving an opportunity for people who may not have been able to do it right the first time around. The opportunity is fair. Average intelligence and good worth ethic and you will match... Nobody is being deceived or fooled.

If you really wanted to be a doctor and you were only given 1 opportunity (yes, that will cost you 28K a term) where if you worked hard you would have a good chance and the odds were 70% that you would make it ... would you?

That being said it is also common rumor that many US programs are very "cush" to their students. Giving them many opportunities when perhaps they should be kicked... doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Shinken]

I graduated with a degree in bio (2.78 gpa). I haven't taken the MCAT yet and my ECs are mainly various volunteer activities including hospital patient care. What's an ideal MCAT score to shoot for to get into mid tier Caribbean schools like St. Matthew's, AUA and the like?

My advice to you is to just do well on the MCAT. Caribbean schools have a holistic application process and a low MCAT will not necessarily preclude you from admission. If your application shows a strong desire to become a physician, those schools will likely admit you.

As far as residency placement, apply broadly and you will succeed. In my program, we receive a lot of Caribbean grad applications and we carefully go over each to discern the applicant's motivation. We've known many Caribbean grads that go on to become excellent physicians, and we don't want to miss any! Even with a board failure, if the rest of your application is strong, we'll consider you. After all, once you're a physician nobody cares about your MCAT or USMLE scores.

 

[Skip Intro]

My advice to you is to just do well on the MCAT. Caribbean schools have a holistic application process and a low MCAT will not necessarily preclude you from admission. If your application shows a strong desire to become a physician, those schools will likely admit you.

As far as residency placement, apply broadly and you will succeed. In my program, we receive a lot of Caribbean grad applications and we carefully go over each to discern the applicant's motivation. We've known many Caribbean grads that go on to become excellent physicians, and we don't want to miss any! Even with a board failure, if the rest of your application is strong, we'll consider you. After all, once you're a physician nobody cares about your MCAT or USMLE scores.

No one has said this on this sub-forum. Anywhere.

Shinken has lost it and is in the middle of a tantrum right now. Best ignored.

-Skip

 

[It's_A_Service_Wolf]

I know this has been said before but im still baffled by the fact that we are all OK with a 30% attrition rate.........with that percentage that means that if the august class is lets say 1000 students, 30% is 300 students! thats more than most US schools entering class in itself! idk that 30% just scares me just my $0.02

What were the stats like at your undergrad? There seems to be this expectation here that "being brave enough" to attempt medical school should be sufficient to BECOME a doctor. It's not. It's work and it's risk - just like everything else.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

What were the stats like at your undergrad? There seems to be this expectation here that "being brave enough" to attempt medical school should be sufficient to BECOME a doctor. It's not. It's work and it's risk - just like everything else.

3.2 ugrad gpa, 3.8 grad gpa, 505 MCAT......I worked part time and then full time during the whole process plus did several other volunteer activities..........satisfied?

 

[Shinken]

So, Skip, you're saying that someone with low scores should not apply broadly? That's terrible advice. My advice to anyone with a less than stellar record would be to apply broadly and not limit himself to a few select spots. This is simply common sense.

 

[Skip Intro]

So, Skip, you're saying that someone with low scores should not apply broadly? That's terrible advice. My advice to anyone with a less than stellar record would be to apply broadly and not limit himself to a few select spots. This is simply common sense.

Show me specifically anywhere I said that. (Hint: you can't.) Then I will respond accordingly.

There is, however, no guarantee of success as you disingenuously intimate in your temper-tantrum. Everyone should know that going in. Even U.S. matriculants.

NOT A DOCTOR, JUST AN M.D.

-Skip

 

[Solenzis]

Hey skip,
I want to study orthopedic surgery. Will I get a residency studying at a Caribbean med school?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hey skip,
I want to study orthopedic surgery. Will I get a residency studying at a Caribbean med school?

Although I expect this is a troll question, in case not, the answer is:

No. You will not get an ortho position if you go to the carib. It does not matter how well you do.

 

[Skip Intro]

Hey skip,
I want to study orthopedic surgery. Will I get a residency studying at a Caribbean med school?

Number of graduates from SGU who matched in Orthopedic surgery since 2001: 29 (1.70/year)

Residency Appointments | St. George's University​

Number of graduates from Ross who matched in Orthopedic surgery since 2005: 19 (1.46/year)

Medical School Residency Appointments | Ross University School of Medicine​

Number of graduates from AUC who matched in Orthopedic surgery since 2014: 1 (0.25/year)

AUC - American University of the Caribbean School of Medicine​

Those are the numerators. The denominators are in the thousands. Your chance of securing such a residency, just based on the numbers, is exceedingly small.

What does that specifically mean for you? I have no idea. Neither does anyone else.

-Skip

 

[Miamiguy21]

I don't know about anyone else nor do I wish to draw the wrath of the almighty Goro and his Caribbean Hate but at the end of the day, the attrition rate even if at 30% should not be a deterrent for anybody applying to a Big 3 School. If you're okay with being a Physician in the fields where a majority of Caribbean Grads get residencies then go for it. If you're starting school worried about the people who fail then you're already done for. These schools pump out hundreds of Residents each year so the focus should be on being one of those. I too have heard for years that the death of the Caribbean Schools is coming but for some reason, it went from 2012 to 2016 and now 2020 so I guess they're getting the 2024 pitchforks ready. Bottom line is if you want to be a MD, go to the Caribbean and do your best because I have personally seen those with your GPA and lower given a chance at Ross and SGU and now they're happy successful MD's with that degree hanging on their office wall. I too am on that Road to Residency and WHEN I do make it I hope to see you there too.

 

[aformerstudent]

I've said it before and some people don't listen. The only school in the Caribbean that anybody should apply to if they are a reasonably good student and know what they are up against is SGU. You have a better chance of succeeding at SGU than you would at any other school.

I noticed they have different tiers but the reality is that SGU has the best track record and the most resources of any of those schools and stands alone. Everyone else is in the next tier because as long as you get the MD from any of those schools, it really doesn't matter where you went. If you go to a school that lacks the same accreditation's of the more established five or six schools, than you are an idiot.

Caribbean route is still a crapshoot. I've been there recently so I know better than anyone here what is going on over there and how that game works. You can't knock the Caribbean without having been on one of those islands and experiencing that for yourself; you just wouldn't understand how those schools operate.

Just like they require you to go through exit counseling, there should be a mandatory counseling program by the USDOE regarding the pros and cons of the Caribbean route for anyone planning to go down that route BEFORE they sign up. That should open a lot of eyes before investing that type of money for a less than 50% chance of succeeding.

I know people who were straight A undergrad students who got tripped up in the Caribbean. I also know people who were on academic probation during their undergrad years who ended up passing basic sciences and getting 230+ on STEP 1. I also know people who failed STEP 2 and I also know people who graduated SGU and ROSS who make 400K or more and are well respected in their fields.

Success in the Caribbean does not come from hard work, just believe me when I tell you that. Success in the Caribbean comes from endurance and adaptability. You can work hard and still fail.

 

[Skip Intro]

I've said it before and some people don't listen. {sic}

-Skip

 

[aformerstudent]

-Skip

Slow day in the OR?

 

[ill be a doc soon]

Slow day in the OR?

Not you again

 

[aformerstudent]

Yup, I'm back. Good to see you... oh wait.

 

[Skip Intro]

Slow day in the OR?

-Skip

 

[Psychstudent!721]

I graduated with a degree in bio (2.78 gpa). I haven't taken the MCAT yet and my ECs are mainly various volunteer activities including hospital patient care. What's an ideal MCAT score to shoot for to get into mid tier Caribbean schools like St. Matthew's, AUA and the like?

I’m ALMOST in the same bot as you, I graduated a psych major with a 3.1cummgpa and a 3.2 in my major, and only ever taken 2 bio courses years ago and did poorly. I realized after I was accepted to a masters program psych wasn’t for me. Luckily, I decided before I started the program. I sat down with my pre-med advisor and he was very nice but also frank with me and said “I’m gonna be honest, you’re not absolutely out of the running with a 3.1. Most schools won’t look at a candidate with less than a 3.0, so you’ve beaten that. However you’re still not competitive, not bad, but not competitive. Do your pre reqs, knock them out of the park all As and B+, then do a masters program, show you can do the work. Do wel on your MCAT. And then maybe you have a shot. As of right now with a 3.1 and assuming you follow the curve of most science majors and do a 3.3 and average on the MCAT you’re looking as DO and carribian schools. DO doctors do everything an MD does but focuses more on the body healing itself, and carribian schools ARE NOT BAD contrary to what is said. You just have to find a school with a good American reputation. Such as Ross. The point is, do your pre reqs, then talk to me. If we’re looking at As on these classes in janurary, we might be in the running for a MD program in the states. Give the admissions a reason to want to know why your gpa was so low”

So OP youre not “**** out of luck” yet. Do a post-bacc. Retake classes you got a C or below in, then consider what is called a “Specilized masters program” these programs are designed for students like you and I, who for one reason or another had a low gpa but CAN do the work. Often these courses are 1 year and are taught along side with first year med students. This is to see how you stack up. Many SMP programs gurantee a interview with the med school their affiliated with if you do outstanding meaning 3.6 and above. But keep in mind it’s JUST AN INTERVIEW. My reasoning, and this is not an excuse, but simply a reason for my meh GPA is second part of freshman year my grandmother suffered numerous strokes, which eventually turned into a serious brain bleed and then she developed dementia. It was a constant Staten of dysfunction in my home for about a full year, my grades heavily suffered. Following her death my grandfather had numerous falls and hospital stays and developed lung cancer. So between sophomore and junior year it was like waiting by my phone to see if I was gonna be called to the hospital again. My mother fell into a deep depression following my grandmothers pssing and that greatly affected me. It took me 5-6 years to complete college because I transferred to try to “wake up” from the nightmare. The end of my junior to my senior year I went HARD all As and Bs. Brought my GPA up from a 2.8/9 to a 3.1. That strong upward trend will look good.

Don’t excuse your grades, but own them and explain why you CAN do better. And even use any unfortunate events to your advantage. Med schools want students who are well rounded and would make GOOD doctors, not just doctors who can recite a text book. Someone who understands the toll the death of a close loved on, or mental illness can take on a whole family and relate to the people as people and not JUST patients make the best doctors. Just show that you CAN ask the work and take it from there. Otherwise you might aswell just do any job you can get. You and I have an uphill battle BUT IT CAN BE DONE. There are ways!