Low COMLEX, AOA general surgery still possible?

[Brahventus]

480 Comlex score but want to do GS. Would auditioning make it still possible?

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[Mad Jack]

AOA GS basically doesn't exist anymore. All programs will be ACGME by the time you're matching. In other words, your odds are pretty long.

 

[Brahventus]

AOA GS basically doesn't exist anymore. All programs will be ACGME by the time you're matching. In other words, your odds are pretty long.

k this is why i dont post on SDN anymore...back to meddit

 

[Mad Jack]

k this is why i dont post on SDN anymore...back to meddit

Well, if you want an exact number, 27% of students with your COMLEX matched in the NRMP match. So around 1 in 4.

 

[Brahventus]

Well, if you want an exact number, 27% of students with your COMLEX matched in the NRMP match. So around 1 in 4.

Will all GS AOA programs really fully convert to ACGME by 2018?

 

[Mad Jack]

Will all GS AOA programs really fully convert to ACGME by 2018?

All of them have to have applied as of this year. 5 have achieved ACGME initial accreditation, the remainder are on pre-accred or continuing pre-accred. Per the rules of the merger, any that don't achieve full accreditation by 2020 will lose accreditation, be shut down, and all years up until that point invested by residents will be forfeit. So the question is, if there are programs that do not yet have ACGME accreditation in 2018, a full three years into the merger (surgery programs all had to apply by 2016's match), do you want to roll the dice going to such a program? Because chances are, most, if not all of them, will be ACGME accredited, and the remainder will be weak programs that are struggling to meet standard.

 

[Mad Jack]

Oh, and if you ever want to run a report of who's applied, who hasn't, who has gotten initial accred, etc, here's the link: https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/Report/18

 

[ACSurgeon]

All of them have to have applied as of this year. 5 have achieved ACGME initial accreditation, the remainder are on pre-accred or continuing pre-accred. Per the rules of the merger, any that don't achieve full accreditation by 2020 will lose accreditation, be shut down, and all years up until that point invested by residents will be forfeit. So the question is, if there are programs that do not yet have ACGME accreditation in 2018, a full three years into the merger (surgery programs all had to apply by 2016's match), do you want to roll the dice going to such a program? Because chances are, most, if not all of them, will be ACGME accredited, and the remainder will be weak programs that are struggling to meet standard.

Devils advocate: surgery has a 20% attrition rate, so completing 1-3 years of residency isn't a dead end situation(spots open up every year). Not ideal by any means but if the OP really wants to be a surgeon, he/she should apply and try to get in the best program possible but accept that could mean an "at risk program" with such low step score.

 

[Mad Jack]

Devils advocate: surgery has a 20% attrition rate, so completing 1-3 years of residency isn't a dead end situation(spots open up every year). Not ideal by any means but if the OP really wants to be a surgeon, he/she should apply and try to get in the best program possible but accept that could mean an "at risk program" with such low step score.

Three years of training from a program too weak to survive accreditation aren't exactly going to be looked highly upon. Better off trying to get into a strong prelim ACGME program, though even those have a reputation for being a road to nowhere for a reason.

 

[NontradCA]

@Mad Jack
You're a med student, never been through the match, no offense. Can a surgeon comment on the OPs chances at all?

 

[Mad Jack]

@Mad Jack
You're a med student, never been through the match, no offense. Can a surgeon comment on the OPs chances at all?

I was providing facts. AOA general surgery essentially isn't a thing moving forward. Anyone who has matched AOA general surg in the past is in a different world than post-merger, so you're essentially asking for experience in a thing in which almost no one has any experience yet. No one knows what the future is going to be like, but since everything is going to be NRMP, we can assume it will look closer to the current NRMP match for DOs than the AOA match. Here's the stats on that:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

 

[sunealoneal]

Sorry for reviving this thread, but I see no indication that the majority of the 55 AOA GS programs going through ACGME accreditation will be exclusively using NRMP match rather than the AOA match in 2018.

Asking about, and strategically targeting these programs with a ~450 COMLEX score makes a lot of sense to me. Am I missing something @Mad Jack ?