Have you spent time watching the market in the area you are wanting to stay in? You need to look at how many pharmacy schools are near there and how many pharmacy jobs are even posted for that area or within a distance you would be willing to travel to work. If the area is growing, there may be an increase in retail jobs, but likely this will only occur if the area is growing very rapidly and is not already covered with pharmacies. Next consider who those jobs are with, RiteAid has been closing stores, so there is already concern there that those pharmacies may not even exist in 4 years. The other chains have numerous posts on here from people who work with them and are very unfavorable (note that this is not people upset with pharmacy, but with the company that is putting excess tasks/expectations on the pharmacist). I would watch these jobs while you decide what to do, then you need to consider what you saw, as that will only be worse in 4 years. Another consideration is if you will be able to work in the area you desire as an intern while in school. This could help you to get an initial job if you can network with people in the area, but, if you are having to move away for school, you may find that getting a job in the area you desire is nearly impossible.
Looking to change my career to Pharmacy at 32
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Have you spent time watching the market in the area you are wanting to stay in? You need to look at how many pharmacy schools are near there and how many pharmacy jobs are even posted for that area or within a distance you would be willing to travel to work. If the area is growing, there may be an increase in retail jobs, but likely this will only occur if the area is growing very rapidly and is not already covered with pharmacies. Next consider who those jobs are with, RiteAid has been closing stores, so there is already concern there that those pharmacies may not even exist in 4 years. The other chains have numerous posts on here from people who work with them and are very unfavorable (note that this is not people upset with pharmacy, but with the company that is putting excess tasks/expectations on the pharmacist). I would watch these jobs while you decide what to do, then you need to consider what you saw, as that will only be worse in 4 years. Another consideration is if you will be able to work in the area you desire as an intern while in school. This could help you to get an initial job if you can network with people in the area, but, if you are having to move away for school, you may find that getting a job in the area you desire is nearly impossible.
I have started to look into the job market in my area, and I have some friends of friends that are pharmacists in the area. I have started to contact them regarding how the job market is in this area.
From what I have learned through reading through articles about the job market, the retail market expanded in the late 90s and 00s, but its condensing because of chains either being bought by others or the market has too many chain locations and is now downsizing. The number of PharmD schools has increased, and its starting to move the market into saturation. Most "full time" positions are 32 hours a week. Many PharmDs are juggling per diem work in some of the bigger cities.
Molecular Biology although much of my work with my degree work was Genetics and Biochemistry based.
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Depending on your location, with a doctorate/phd I would most likely pass on pharmacy. Because it is in STEM I would simply become a school teacher and start at 55-60K with summers off. Out of work by 3 PM and no weekends?!?!? VS corporate pharmacy.... Pick up tutoring during summer maybe and travel. 4 years sunk in RX plus tuition is questionable.
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That's a good suggestion. A teaching certificate isn't too hard to get, once one had a BS (if the OP doesn't already have a teaching certificate.) It's a much cheaper alternate.
I get what you are saying OP, that you can not continue in the field you are in, for your own mental health, but I would hesitate to take on the debt required for pharmacy school in your 30's (have you even paid off your previous college debt?) If you really have a passion for pharmacy, you can make it work, but definitely consider all the aspects mentioned her. Reality is vast majority of pharmacists work in retail, a significant minority work in hospital, and any other pharmacy jobs are almost non-existent without connections.
I live in the Western NY area, teaching in my area at the high school level is saturated because there are numerous teaching schools throughout the region. NY state requires a 2 year Master's in education and a set of certification hoops to jump through to teach. The alternative is to move to a different state that has less strict requirements. In fact many of my friends that went for their Master's in education actually have moved down south or the mid west. I am not sure I have the passion to teach in the high school level. At the college level, its community colleges or post-docs then tenure track university position based on grants.
I understand the advice though and its something that I actually consider every few weeks.
Thankfully, my undergraduate loans were only 20k because of scholarships. I have that paid off. I was stipend in graduate school, so no loans taken out for that. The biggest financial issue is I just haven't saved much since its been low income for many years.
Basically I accept retail if I earn a PharmD degree. I enjoyed it when I worked at a Pharmacy years ago but I need to see what its like now, working on getting a part time job in retail, as I need to see it again first hand for a few months before I can make a decision.
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Maybe rx is a better fit for rural NY state if there is no teaching jobs, I am in fly over middle US area so quite different. I assume rph employment will always be robust in rural NY? Why do people even live there (no offense)? High taxes, freezing cold.
Any passion at retail level is wiped out quickly with loan note, hours reduction, incompetent/lazy techs, rude/entitled customers, overbearing supervisor. All quite common in retail, probably less so in rural area though.
But then again the paychecks are good. haha
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You make good points so don't take this the wrong way, but are you implying that you are considering pharmacy out of passion or rather for the paycheck?
Cause passion purely for the paycheck is going to get old really fast in an over saturated field.
I was able to get a past time job at walgreens starting next week. This should give me some experience now with how retail has changed since I last did this almost 10 years ago.
Searching the job market forecast both locally and nationally has me a little bit concerned as it appears more negative than positive. Even if the passion is there, could be seriously undermined if I struggle to find a 30 hour a week position with 100k student loans as it appears that is where I would be sitting for 4 years and some extra cash for living expenses during that stretch. Interestingly, one of the two pharmacy schools in my area has said if I do well on the PCAT, I would be eligible for a scholarship with my PhD background and they also would be interested in pairing me with a professor who is in active research in the department as well.
Searching the job market forecast both locally and nationally has me a little bit concerned as it appears more negative than positive. Even if the passion is there, could be seriously undermined if I struggle to find a 30 hour a week position with 100k student loans as it appears that is where I would be sitting for 4 years and some extra cash for living expenses during that stretch. Interestingly, one of the two pharmacy schools in my area has said if I do well on the PCAT, I would be eligible for a scholarship with my PhD background and they also would be interested in pairing me with a professor who is in active research in the department as well.
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Having done both (but the PhD stuff second), I found the most stressful part of the laboratory work for my graduate program to be a vacation compared to a normal day at 35th and Dunlap in AZ; that does not even get into what a bad day, and it was not anywhere near my worst day (whacked on the head with a nickel plated Saturday Night Special). If you find the laboratory to be high pressure, that really is not in the same league as what some of the members on this forum face on a day to day basis.
Have you considered an associated kind of job, like Community College instructor or federal scientist? It's a fairly chill set of jobs, if boring and repetitive.
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Did you want to stay in Western NY? Remember, Binghamton and Stony Brook will be graduating their students while you're in school and there was even a rumor about CUNY opening a pharmacy school. About 10 years ago, NY only had Albany, Buffalo, LIU, and St John's. After Binghamton, there will be 9 schools. So consider that. Unless you really don't mind moving anywhere, then I would go with the cheapest tuition. My advice would be to find a job at a retail pharmacy first and work there for the next year.
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Being that you're older, you'd be looking at taking the retail route. Doing a residency would not make any much sense but hey, it's all up to you. Do yourself a favor and take a trip to your local Walmart on the urban side of town and hang out by the pharmacy for a while. It'll look something like this...
Mandatory Counseling Questions
Not that you called for a referendum here but my vote -hands down- goes to PA. Given that you have a PhD in genetics, you're likely an independent learner. You can work through a list of objectives, a syllabus, show up for exams and do just fine. Let me tell you. You are going to be so bored with pharmacy professors reading PowerPoint slides to you or worse, at you. That's if the school has not incorporated the "active learning" and you'll have to discuss everything and everything will take forever. You'll have to wait for 130 students to go to the restroom in between periods.
If you end up in retail, I can tell you that you're likely going to struggle with adjusting to having to interact with technicians and clerks. Run now! Take the PA route! In and out! 24 months! You can't go wrong. Take a look at this Yale's online physician assistant program. It looks super cool.
Physician Assistant Field | Yale School of Medicine
They'll take you in a heart beat. They will probably get a lot of people applying because now they have kids (classic) and this fits perfectly. Instead, this program likely fits your independent learning style. It's a smaller and more manageable class size.
Take a look at USNews best jobs - (reported job satisfaction)
Pharmacist #49
Pharmacist Ranks Among Best Jobs of 2017
PA #3
Physician Assistant Ranks Among Best Jobs of 2017
It's not even about the money. Just saying...
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Great post. The benefit of completing a relatively abbreviated program like PA school in 24-27 months vs. completing 4 years of pharmacy school and possibly 2 years of residency cannot be overstated, especially as it pertains to a somewhat older student. It's funny that you suggested Yale's online PA program, because I actually seriously considered applying to it. Too bad they're not accepting applications from GA residents (yet). It's almost worth applying for a driver's license in another state just for the opportunity to apply before they open it up to applicants in more states. OP -- you at least owe it yourself to consider PA school. If I had applied to and matriculated at PA school last fall instead of pharmacy school, I would now be halfway done with school, period.
Beside the job market issues, think about it like this: do you really want to finish your first year of pharmacy school and say "great, only 3 more years to go... IF I'm content with doing retail. If I want to do hospital pharmacy, then it's going to be at least 4 more years, and that last year is going to involve working 60+ hour weeks." Do yourself a favor and not start pharmacy school before you find yourself dropping out after the first year, only to end up making the right choice after you've already wasted that much time and money.
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Like Amicable Angora said, enduring pharmacy and worse - retail- just for the paycheck, will get old very fast. Do the math and calculate the added return on investment of attending pharmacy school for 4 years vs. PA school for 2 years (+/- a few months). You will see that the additional $25k-35K that you could make as a retail pharmacist are just not worth the trouble. If you REALLY wanted to, you could attend PA school for 2 years and then do a PA residency for 1 or 2. Fun! Seriously!
Here's another good one for you. You will have much better chances at getting a good portion of your loans forgiven whether through PSLF (Public Service Loan Forgiveness) or IBR after 10 years (?) - *I don't qualify for that benefit. Thus, I am not well informed and may be misquoting the number of years.
Right now I am looking through my company's website for places where I wouldn't MIND living. You don't want to be in that position. You want to have options.
Our day to day is mind numbing. You're lucky to get an intern walk through your doors. Did I mention we aren't health care providers? We aren't perceived as such either. Schools of Pharmacy will tell you otherwise but truth is you will have some appreciation at hospitals. You'll need a residency for those jobs at this point. Outside of that, as a retail pharmacist, you'll be dealing with clinics and prescriber's agents. You will rarely speak to a physician. They're too busy for that even though you're trying to save their @$$. NPs & PAs, on the other hand, are very thankful we put ourselves through this torture day in and day out and show up for work.
Again, PA all the way..
Best,
Apotheker2015
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For me personally, I liked that aspect about pharmacy... I cringe when I see practicing RPh's/professors illustrate pharmacy for what it's not. We need to just stick to our roots - be a reliable reservoir of drug information, whether it be DI or commercial information. There are already too many unicorn healthcare 'professionals' competing with MD's/DO's. We have a presence in healthcare, but it is passive; I'm okay with that, and will not pretend otherwise.
It depends on location, but generally, retail pharmacists only make $25-$30k more than PAs if you're talking about primary care PAs (and even then, PAs/NPs tend to get more PTO than retail pharmacists and usually have the potential to earn a bonus check depending on how many patients they see or how much revenue they produce). Also, specialty PAs tend to earn much more than primary care PAs.
Your suggestion to the OP to do a PA residency is a good one. Many employers will start off a PA at a salary that one who has been working at that practice for 5 years would earn. So by doing a 1-year residency, they actually receive a financial benefit, unlike pharmacists, who actually earn lower salaries in most cases after completing a residency.
OP, if you are still following this thread, pay attention to the text I bolded in @smercer's post. When I started pharmacy school a year ago, sites like Indeed.com had plenty of jobs posted by hospitals and basically every retail chain (CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Kmart, Bi-Lo/Winn-Dixie, Publix, independents). By the time I had finished my first semester, a search for pharmacist jobs on the same websites turned up literally either zero jobs, or a single CVS part-time job and a hospital job that required either two years of experience or completion of a residency. For the last 6 months, a search for pharmacist jobs on any website yielded basically the same results, and even today, performing the same online search only brings up one or two jobs. A couple weeks ago, Walmart fired a bunch of pharmacists throughout the southeast, and around the same time, they posted a PT job for a pharmacist in my area. The job ad was taken down in less than 3 days.
So in light of what smercer says in his/her post above, what conclusion does that lead you to? If there are basically zero job postings right now, then in 3 more years (the amount of time it would've taken me personally to finish pharmacy school), how many are there likely to be? If I were to graduate into the same local job market and not have a position lined-up because I had worked as an intern, then I would either be facing moving or not having a job. Just like smercer says, you should do a basic search for pharmacist jobs in your area and see how many are posted now, as well as over the next 6 months. If things are only likely to get even worse over the next 4 years (although it's hard to imagine getting worse than "zero jobs"), then you need to ask yourself if you'd be willing to risk pursuing a career, only to end up graduating in that kind of job market.
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Since when do PA's make 30K less? I thought most PA start at 110-120 easy even in primary care?! Specialty starting 150 I heard (surg,derm) but not sure.
The only fields that PAs tend to make ~$30k less in are certain primary care specialties, such as pediatrics. Otherwise, six figures is basically the norm, especially for PA's who work in specialties like surgery and derm (as you mentioned). In my medium-sized city in the southeast, I know that surgical PAs who have completed residencies make $150-$160k to start. I will actually be shadowing a surgical PA who is fairly boastful, and he told me how much he makes (less than 2 yrs of experience!).
One thing I have noticed is that employers actually place a high degree of value on completing a residency as a PA to the extent that they are treated commensurately in terms of salary and benefits, whereas residency completion has basically become an entry-level requirement for hospital pharmacist jobs.
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I will just leave this here 'Registered Nurse' search results | Transparent California
