Looking to change my career to Pharmacy at 32

[Tzero7]

I am in an unusual place in life career wise. I earned a PhD in Genetics but absolutely hate my career options. I don't want a career in active research anymore, to the point where I am pretty miserable. I have no interest in pursuing a tenure track academic position either. I started Post Doc position but hated and ended up leaving it.

So over the past months I have done my research on career, and felt that a career as a pharmacist fits both my skill set, interests and salary goals. I am interested in medicine, its underlying mechanisms and I am a bit of a people person. I almost pursued this path once before, prior to my PhD as well. At the time I did enjoy research more and not having to pay tuition was one factor that steered me to that degree. So its been an interest, just not something I ever acted open.

I have contacted a local PharmD program that has gone through my academics record and as long as I don't bomb the PCAT, I would have no issues getting accepted. From a financial stand point, I never took out loans for graduate school, so I believe I would be fine on being able to get student loans for a PharmD program and may even qualify for scholarships based on my advanced degree and undergrad/grad GPA. I do need to confirm this though, and will start making contacts in the coming weeks.

I do understand the 4 year commitment and living like a poor college student again as well as the added student loan debt at my age. I am in a place where that is ok, no one is dependent on my income.

I am looking for input on going back at an older age, since most pharmD students are in their early 20s. Do people often do this? Also part of me just feels like I wasted part of my life getting a PhD that I turned out hating. I almost quit the program towards the end but was convinced by my grad affairs committee, you are so close, finish the degree even if you aren't happy.

For sanity purposes and financial security for my future family, I do feel this is a decent venture to pursue

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rouelle]

I'm a PhD scientist who went back to pharmacy school and graduated at 36. Married/family, etc. PM me if I can be of any assistance.

 

[Tzero7]

I'm a PhD scientist who went back to pharmacy school and graduated at 36. Married/family, etc. PM me if I can be of any assistance.

Thanks, I sent you a message.

 

[animalsasleaders]

Many of the people in our class are in their late 20s, some are mid 30s and beyond.

 

[PharmtoCS]

For sanity purposes and financial security for my future family, I do feel this is a decent venture to pursue

The job market is saturated and getting worse each year as pharmacy schools continue to open with no end in sight. Most graduates end up in chain retail which is known for having abysmal work conditions. Would you really be satisfied by slaving away for CVS while seeing the tax man and Sallie Mae eat up most of your take-home pay?

here are other professions that offer better returns on investment, job prospects, and work-life balance, i.e. computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, etc. that pay well and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend another 4 years of your life in school.

 

[Momus]

Pharmacy sucks. I just turned 33 I wanna get out of the field 5 yrs ago. It's very boring, it's steady $3k/80 take home paycheck but meh... I would not want this job if I could start over.

 

[Tzero7]

I do read a great deal of conflicting reports about the job market and job saturation in pharmacy; the programs I have contacted obviously pitch its a growing field, while data I have read state the job market and outlook is average. I have seen forums on here and other state certain regions are over-saturated while others have decent to good opportunity.

I do understand the high cost associated with 4 year programs, based on my estimates of two local programs, I am looking at 80 - 110k in student loan debt but if salaries remain the same or increase, putting 30-40k the first few years in the working force will more cover those costs while still affording me 70k salary for life expenses. I can use my PhD to adjunct teach during pharmacy school at some community colleges at night, minimizing my living expenses during pharmacy school, possibly even reducing the loan amount I need to take out.

I really have no interest in accounting/finance and would like to at least loosely be able to use my current PhD.

 

[Tzero7]

Pharmacy sucks. I just turned 33 I wanna get out of the field 5 yrs ago. It's very boring, it's steady $3k/80 take home paycheck but meh... I would not want this job if I could start over.

I am curious as to why you are unhappy in the field and what you would rather go for. I am in the same boat with my current field, although in my case it is just making life miserable.

 

[Momus]

I am curious as to why you are unhappy in the field and what you would rather go for. I am in the same boat with my current field, although in my case it is just making life miserable.

Boredom

 

[sosoo]

Boredom is a terrible reason to take on a $140k loan, PLUS interest. i know a pharmacist who was bored at her low volume store and decided to work at another more busy store. she was overwhelmed n miserable and often stay several hours to work without pay.. boredom was regrettably her reason to become more miserable today.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You'll find a lot of people that hate their jobs. I don't mind my job. I work night shift at CVS. 7 on, 7 off. It's pretty low stress and I get a ton of time off. Max out my 401k, get the best health plan, and max HSA...still take home over $3000/2 weeks. I really can't think I can complain. Yet the guy that works the opposite of me during my week off hates it with a passion.

 

[Jbrl]

What other options have you considered? Maybe some of your other options such as direct industry work would be better, before taking the dive into more schooling. Not sure what kind of school you got your degree from and what kind of work/research experience you have but it's worth consideration as you have subject matter expertise.

 

[738177]

I am in an unusual place in life career wise. I earned a PhD in Genetics but absolutely hate my career options. I don't want a career in active research anymore, to the point where I am pretty miserable. I have no interest in pursuing a tenure track academic position either. I started Post Doc position but hated and ended up leaving it.

So over the past months I have done my research on career, and felt that a career as a pharmacist fits both my skill set, interests and salary goals. I am interested in medicine, its underlying mechanisms and I am a bit of a people person. I almost pursued this path once before, prior to my PhD as well. At the time I did enjoy research more and not having to pay tuition was one factor that steered me to that degree. So its been an interest, just not something I ever acted open.

For sanity purposes and financial security for my future family, I do feel this is a decent venture to pursue

Have you considered PA or NP?

 

[steveysmith54]

I am interested in medicine, its underlying mechanisms and I am a bit of a people person.

Those are not the right reasons to go into pharmacy. Do you have any experience in any pharmacy setting, even shadowing? About half of our jobs are in chain pharmacies that have high level of stress, high turnover, and low job satisfaction. You may have to float from store to store when you are in your 40's, 50's, etc... You can go the clinical route, but that involves an additional post graduate residency with matching rates that are about 20 percent nationwide (not positive about that number, so don't quote me).

Your age is not a factor, I've had classmates much older... it's matter of understanding if the profession for you and understanding the role of a pharmacist. As far as job availability, it varies geographically. I'd check BLS, pharmacist manpower, HRSA stats and other credible articles

 

[spacecowgirl]

What about one of the burgeoning pharmacogenomic companies? I heard a PhD medical liaison speak and it was really interesting.

 

[Lnsean]

I am in an unusual place in life career wise. I earned a PhD in Genetics but absolutely hate my career options. I don't want a career in active research anymore, to the point where I am pretty miserable. I have no interest in pursuing a tenure track academic position either. I started Post Doc position but hated and ended up leaving it.

So over the past months I have done my research on career, and felt that a career as a pharmacist fits both my skill set, interests and salary goals. I am interested in medicine, its underlying mechanisms and I am a bit of a people person. I almost pursued this path once before, prior to my PhD as well. At the time I did enjoy research more and not having to pay tuition was one factor that steered me to that degree. So its been an interest, just not something I ever acted open.

I have contacted a local PharmD program that has gone through my academics record and as long as I don't bomb the PCAT, I would have no issues getting accepted. From a financial stand point, I never took out loans for graduate school, so I believe I would be fine on being able to get student loans for a PharmD program and may even qualify for scholarships based on my advanced degree and undergrad/grad GPA. I do need to confirm this though, and will start making contacts in the coming weeks.

I do understand the 4 year commitment and living like a poor college student again as well as the added student loan debt at my age. I am in a place where that is ok, no one is dependent on my income.

I am looking for input on going back at an older age, since most pharmD students are in their early 20s. Do people often do this? Also part of me just feels like I wasted part of my life getting a PhD that I turned out hating. I almost quit the program towards the end but was convinced by my grad affairs committee, you are so close, finish the degree even if you aren't happy.

For sanity purposes and financial security for my future family, I do feel this is a decent venture to pursue

Meh. Don't do it for the money. What do you enjoy doing then...or what area interests you? It seems like you're just going into pharmacy because you hate your current situation. Guess what, four years from now or whenever you graduate with your PharmD, you going to hate that position too. If financial security is what you're after...I don't see pharmacy offering that. Outlook is scary to be honest. There are jobs...but they are getting harder and harder to come by. No one is reigning in all the new schools and new graduates. If you worked in pharmacy before and enjoy pharmacy (like you mentioned briefly), then by all means do it. I would never discourage anyone from realizing their dreams. I feel, though, you're going towards pharmacy for the wrong reasons.

 

[trailerpark]

I'm looking forward to paying off my loans and only working 32 hours max to get my full time benefits.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[rph3664]

Before you do anything else, get a job in a pharmacy, even if it's just one shift a week. Any pharmacy will do - hospital, retail, long-term care (they service nursing homes), etc. You need to know if the career is for you before investing all that time and money.

 

[El Trombopag]

I was in your general demographic, age, when I transitioned from infectious disease/micro research around 2006.

Hospital vs retail - Before and during pharmacy school I could have seen myself in retail...I had waited tables a lot in my younger years, had a good work ethic. After a few retail rotations it became clear it wouldn't work for me in the long run. I hadn't set foot in a retail pharmacy prior to starting pharmacy school, but wish I had. I lucked out and got hired at a rural-ish hospital right after graduation ...but at the time I would have HAD to have taken anything.

General advice, complementing previous posts, is to get a sniff of retail pharmacy...pharmacy assistant licenses are pretty easy to get, will make it easier to volunteer at least. Retail is the bulk of available jobs, critical to make sure you have some fair expectations. Also, being able to answer that predictable "Why pharmacy?" question during interviews is only convincing if you have some idea, experience, anecdotes about real world pharmacy.

I was hired straight out of school for the most part because I was older, had work experience...that will definitely be a boon for you as well going forward.

Caveat emptor. It can work out great - I like my little niche. But it's a big gamble with a hefty price tag if you end up hating your job.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[mentos]

Don't do it! I did it in my mid 20s and would have stayed in my cushy 50k low-stress office job if I could. You will be bored and miserable, most likely at CVS (if you're lucky) with 6-figure debt and a family to support. There is no financial security in pharmacy anymore. If you asked this question 10+ years ago I'd say yes, but now hell no.

Just read this thread How bad is the job market in your area? to see how bad it is out there. In 4 years, forget about it.

 

[Tzero7]

I appreciate all the advice/feedback, I didn't think I would get so much in just a day. Also I like that many are being critical of my potential decision, as it is making me consider elements of this I hadn't previously.

A few quick things, I did work in a locally owned pharmacy for a year while in undergrad as it was one potential option for me at that time and I wanted to see what it was like. Granted the location wasn't that busy, it seemed overall the pharmacists enjoyed their job at times and hated it at other times.

Because of the specialized nature of my PhD, it puts me in a really tough spot job market for non-post doc positions. I am either overqualified and dismissed for most applied/industry jobs or I don't have enough experience with XYZ to get some applied positions. I had one company that had a position I think I would have really enjoyed tell me I would do fine at the position, but the supervisors don't like the idea of someone with a more advanced degree then them working under them. At least they were honest. It is a fine line that I seem to be on the wrong side of. So as a result, at least to stay in my current area I am stuck either going to another low paying post-doc (I'll be miserable again) OR doing what I am doing now and working an unrelated part time job and adjunct teaching while I continue to comb the job market. You can see the concerns about my future on this current path. It also isn't because I am a "bad PhD", despite the lack of passion, I was moderately successful in my graduate career with publications. Even if I don't have the passion for something, if its my job, I'll make sure its well done whether I am happy or miserable doing it.

I do agree with those saying I should look into working in a Pharmacy again over the next few months. That is something I can look into. I am in a phase where I can't really do anything in terms of applying to schools, so I have a lot of time to investigate this further.

Regarding the stress, I don't know how it compares to a Post-Doc position. You have to get results, you essentially are on your own if an experiment isn't working, the PI becomes intolerable after a few months if you don't have a story that can be published. I was working 70 hours a week towards the end, trying to a set of experiments to tell a research story. This was all for 40k. These positions aren't all that different, I certainly determined this wasn't for me.

Some paint a picture of a job market that is disconcerting. From what I have been reading, it does appear to be saturated in certain regions. I also am not too sure how that projects 4-5 years from now. I have read favorable outlooks on the field and not so favorable outlooks.

 

[wucool33]

I do understand the high cost associated with 4 year programs, based on my estimates of two local programs, I am looking at 80 - 110k in student loan debt but if salaries remain the same or increase, putting 30-40k the first few years in the working force will more cover those costs while still affording me 70k salary for life expenses. I can use my PhD to adjunct teach during pharmacy school at some community colleges at night, minimizing my living expenses during pharmacy school, possibly even reducing the loan amount I need to take out.

Your numbers are way off. If you put 40k toward your loans, then you would have about 30-40k for "life expenses". That's if you even get full time after graduation.

PHD job is not glamorous. My dad told me to never follow in his footsteps and become one. The pressure to publish and applying for grants is too much, especially now with funding being cut. The job security is not great if you can't get those grants, so it's really not that different from pharmacy. You are basically walking away from one unstable situation to another with more problems. Only do pharmacy if you really love it and can't see yourself doing anything else (this is extremely rare).

 

[mentos]

I appreciate all the advice/feedback, I didn't think I would get so much in just a day. Also I like that many are being critical of my potential decision, as it is making me consider elements of this I hadn't previously.

A few quick things, I did work in a locally owned pharmacy for a year while in undergrad as it was one potential option for me at that time and I wanted to see what it was like. Granted the location wasn't that busy, it seemed overall the pharmacists enjoyed their job at times and hated it at other times.

Because of the specialized nature of my PhD, it puts me in a really tough spot job market for non-post doc positions. I am either overqualified and dismissed for most applied/industry jobs or I don't have enough experience with XYZ to get some applied positions. I had one company that had a position I think I would have really enjoyed tell me I would do fine at the position, but the supervisors don't like the idea of someone with a more advanced degree then them working under them. At least they were honest. It is a fine line that I seem to be on the wrong side of. So as a result, at least to stay in my current area I am stuck either going to another low paying post-doc (I'll be miserable again) OR doing what I am doing now and working an unrelated part time job and adjunct teaching while I continue to comb the job market. You can see the concerns about my future on this current path. It also isn't because I am a "bad PhD", despite the lack of passion, I was moderately successful in my graduate career with publications. Even if I don't have the passion for something, if its my job, I'll make sure its well done whether I am happy or miserable doing it.

I do agree with those saying I should look into working in a Pharmacy again over the next few months. That is something I can look into. I am in a phase where I can't really do anything in terms of applying to schools, so I have a lot of time to investigate this further.

Regarding the stress, I don't know how it compares to a Post-Doc position. You have to get results, you essentially are on your own if an experiment isn't working, the PI becomes intolerable after a few months if you don't have a story that can be published. I was working 70 hours a week towards the end, trying to a set of experiments to tell a research story. This was all for 40k. These positions aren't all that different, I certainly determined this wasn't for me.

Some paint a picture of a job market that is disconcerting. From what I have been reading, it does appear to be saturated in certain regions. I also am not too sure how that projects 4-5 years from now. I have read favorable outlooks on the field and not so favorable outlooks.

Tldr. You mean you don't even work in a pharmacy right now? I'm not trying to be rude but how can anyone think of dedicating 4 prime years of their life, taking out a mortgage worth of student loans, losing opportunity cost, etc to a dying profession without even knowing what it's like to work in it?

Whatever experience you had at your independent years ago is irrelevant now. Hell, CVS/Wags wasn't so bad until a few years ago. They cut hours and add more responsibility every year.

Whatever you read that gave you a favorable outlook on the job market is wrong or a straight up lie. It's saturated EVERYWHERE and it will only get worse. If you're lucky enough to get a full time position, it will most likely be 30 hours/week not 40. This was posted literally 10 minutes ago Graduated last year and still can't find full time positions :( and this was posted like 5 years ago My story as an Unemployed Pharmacist with Residency, experience, solid network

If you're young and single and want to move to BFE, that's fine. But are you really going to move your entire family to rural Louisiana for work? If your spouse is okay with that then that's cool I guess.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Don't count on scholarships - many schools, mine included, do not give scholarships (or small ones at best) to those with degrees - so count on paying full tuition (plus living costs)

 

[Tzero7]

Your numbers are way off. If you put 40k toward your loans, then you would have about 30-40k for "life expenses". That's if you even get full time after graduation.

PHD job is not glamorous. My dad told me to never follow in his footsteps and become one. The pressure to publish and applying for grants is too much, especially now with funding being cut. The job security is not great if you can't get those grants, so it's really not that different from pharmacy. You are basically walking away from one unstable situation to another with more problems. Only do pharmacy if you really love it and can't see yourself doing anything else (this is extremely rare).

That was a typo, I meant 50k but still a little off of your numbers.

The job market it pretty tough right now for PhDs in any type of biology, funding is drying up so there are less academic opportunities. Going the applied/industry route is also tough as most positions are looking for a very narrow/specific skill set. If you don't have it, you don't even have a chance at the position.

Post-doc positions are high stress, high demand hour wise and are paying no much more that 40-45k. When your project isn't working, its hell.

As I mentioned, I almost went to pharmacy school years ago, but at that time I like lab/bench work and fully stipend PhD programs were quite appealing at that time. I do recognize that any career is going to have its problems, you need passion to carry your through it. Right now I don't have it for my field. I did really enjoy working in a pharmacy back in undergraduate but I recognize that its a much different animal than 10 years ago.

 

[gwarm01]

Which region of the country do you live in? The job market varies greatly depending on where you are, and certain areas are just abysmal right now. No one can predict the future, but there aren't many indicators that things are going to get better.

 

[Baalzeebub]

I HIGHLY advise becoming a pharmacy tech for CVS or Walgreens before comitting. The earliiest youll start school is what, 2018? That gives you a year of being 'in the trenches.' It requires no experience. You could literally start immediately. In most states yo'll eventually have to become a certified tech but you can still work while you are getting certified. Being a tech will show you exactly what it's like to be a pharmacist, you literally work side-by-side.

As far as the job market, the big chains opened up a ton of new pharmacies in the late 90's-2000's in order to monopolize the competition. Now that there are basically only 2 pharmacies, they are cutting back big time. If you don't believe me, look at the # of walgreens/CVS per year over the last 30 years.

A secondary effect of this expansion was a shortage of pharmacists. Another factor in the shortage was the change from a bachelor's to PharmD around 2000. This shortage caused salaries to skyrocket. However, many, many new pharmacy schools opened in the last few years because the salary was so good. So, we've gone from massive shortage to massive surplus, with a larger surplus each passing year. Now there are many graduating who cannot find jibs. Of course there will always be some jobs, but it's going to be a struggle to find one. Also I can almost guarantee you won't be intellectually satisfied given you have a phD in genomics. Best of luck.

 

[Pharm Admin]

Have you considered becoming a FACMG. It is an extremely lucrative career and you get to write your own ticket.

What about genetic counseling or clinical genomics. We are launching two new programs in genetic counseling and genomic data analytics/clinical genomics and they may also be worth considering. We might also have a 1 year targeted program on clinical genomics for PhDs. The idea for the clinical genomics program is to prepare students who can work in industry and clinical labs helping with variant interpretation. Requires a strong understanding of genetics, medical genetics, literature evaluation/analysis, genomic databases, exome-seq. With your background this could be an interesting field - Program Overview.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Have you considered becoming a FACMG. It is an extremely lucrative career and you get to write your own ticket.

What about genetic counseling or clinical genomics. We are launching two new programs in genetic counseling and genomic data analytics/clinical genomics and they may also be worth considering. We might also have a 1 year targeted program on clinical genomics for PhDs. The idea for the clinical genomics program is to prepare students who can work in industry and clinical labs helping with variant interpretation. Requires a strong understanding of genetics, medical genetics, literature evaluation/analysis, genomic databases, exome-seq. With your background this could be an interesting field - Program Overview.

and there are like 3 RPh's nationwide who have this job.

plus - this is your first message on teh board? things that make you go hmmm

 

[Pharm Admin]

and there are like 3 RPh's nationwide who have this job.

plus - this is your first message on teh board? things that make you go hmmm

There may just be 2 RPh's nationwide who have that job but 1800 PhDs in Genetics who have that job. I am just trying to suggest an alternative program than pharmacy for somebody with already a PhD degree.

 

[raydawg82]

I am 35 years old and going to start a 4 year program to obtain a Pharm D. I like you am debt free and worked in the industry. I say do it I hated working in the pharmaceutical industry without getting the pharmaceutical pay. I will make four times more money in four years....... That is enough motivation for me.

 

[mentos]

I am 35 years old and going to start a 4 year program to obtain a Pharm D. I like you am debt free and worked in the industry. I say do it I hated working in the pharmaceutical industry without getting the pharmaceutical pay. I will make four times more money in four years....... That is enough motivation for me.

I wish you well but you gotta be real too. You will have to be lucky to make that in 4 years. There are many unemployed pharmDs right now and it's been that way for years. As I said before, the average new grad gets 30 hours not 40. For all we know, Amazon could cripple CVS/Wags in 4 years.

 

[steveysmith54]

That was a typo, I meant 50k but still a little off of your numbers.

The job market it pretty tough right now for PhDs in any type of biology, funding is drying up so there are less academic opportunities. Going the applied/industry route is also tough as most positions are looking for a very narrow/specific skill set. If you don't have it, you don't even have a chance at the position.

Post-doc positions are high stress, high demand hour wise and are paying no much more that 40-45k. When your project isn't working, its hell.

As I mentioned, I almost went to pharmacy school years ago, but at that time I like lab/bench work and fully stipend PhD programs were quite appealing at that time. I do recognize that any career is going to have its problems, you need passion to carry your through it. Right now I don't have it for my field. I did really enjoy working in a pharmacy back in undergraduate but I recognize that its a much different animal than 10 years ago.

Have you thought about a career in teaching at a community college. My neighbor is a PhD and is a full time faculty at a community college, makes over 150K (we are in CA so salaries are higher compared to other part of the country). He teaches intro to bio, anatomy, physio. Around 4 classes a semester. Don't get me wrong, teaching is not easy. But, the salary that he gets and the overall job satisfaction is higher compared to most RPh that I talk to.

'Instructor' search results | Transparent California

 

[Seriously Serious]

There are a lot of unhappy pharmacists / pharmacy students / randoms (*cough* PAtoPharm *cough*) that make these forum discussions toxic with their retail experiences and different job market "predictions". Having your PhD puts you at a great career trajectory in the pharmacy world. I would aim for PGY-1/2 or industry jobs -- there are a spectrum of different opportunities for you. I personally know a PhD/PharmD who is a director of pharmacy at a large hospital. If you are in it for the retail salary with a PhD, I'd say its not worth it. If you were someone with only two years undergrad, maybe.

 

[Tzero7]

Genetics/Molecular biology is quite different than a PhD in Genomics. The genetic counselor is actually another path I have been researching, it does requite a specific master's degree and the median salary is 70k and is expected to grow. It would be less of a time schooling commitment but offer a substantially reduced salary.

In my region, even at non-research colleges, teaching positions have low availability and generally do not pay a lot. Worse, these are often non-tenure track positions.

I have not considered a FACMG and actually I didn't know this career field existed; I certainly will have to research it this weekend in my free time. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I am in an unusual place in life career wise. I earned a PhD in Genetics but absolutely hate my career options. I don't want a career in active research anymore, to the point where I am pretty miserable. I have no interest in pursuing a tenure track academic position either. I started Post Doc position but hated and ended up leaving it.

So over the past months I have done my research on career, and felt that a career as a pharmacist fits both my skill set, interests and salary goals. I am interested in medicine, its underlying mechanisms and I am a bit of a people person. I almost pursued this path once before, prior to my PhD as well. At the time I did enjoy research more and not having to pay tuition was one factor that steered me to that degree. So its been an interest, just not something I ever acted open.

I have contacted a local PharmD program that has gone through my academics record and as long as I don't bomb the PCAT, I would have no issues getting accepted. From a financial stand point, I never took out loans for graduate school, so I believe I would be fine on being able to get student loans for a PharmD program and may even qualify for scholarships based on my advanced degree and undergrad/grad GPA. I do need to confirm this though, and will start making contacts in the coming weeks.

I do understand the 4 year commitment and living like a poor college student again as well as the added student loan debt at my age. I am in a place where that is ok, no one is dependent on my income.

I am looking for input on going back at an older age, since most pharmD students are in their early 20s. Do people often do this? Also part of me just feels like I wasted part of my life getting a PhD that I turned out hating. I almost quit the program towards the end but was convinced by my grad affairs committee, you are so close, finish the degree even if you aren't happy.

For sanity purposes and financial security for my future family, I do feel this is a decent venture to pursue

Beware, securing scholarships of any substantial amount is difficult.

 

[ark8012]

Have you thought about a career in teaching at a community college. My neighbor is a PhD and is a full time faculty at a community college, makes over 150K (we are in CA so salaries are higher compared to other part of the country). He teaches intro to bio, anatomy, physio. Around 4 classes a semester. Don't get me wrong, teaching is not easy. But, the salary that he gets and the overall job satisfaction is higher compared to most RPh that I talk to.

'Instructor' search results | Transparent California

I think this is one of the exceptional case. A lot of teaching professors make less than half of it, especially in bio field.

 

[ark8012]

I would like to say a lot of comments on this thread is true, but also not true for OP.
I also have a Ph.D., and worked as a post-doc before I became a pharmacist. I entered a pharmacy school when I was 32.
Most post-docs work non-scheduled, which means post-doc can get time-off as much as they want as long as they produce data. In other words, there is no time off if post-docs cannot produce data. Overtime payment, NO. there are no over time for post-docs.
The average salary as a fresh post-doc (less than 5 years experience as post-docs) is around 3.5k-4k. Not a joke. Oh.. no 401k neither.

Now, I have a year experience as a pharmacist, and I never regret. Yes, working as pharmacist is stressful, but in my opinion, less than as a post-doc. Plus, my paycheck is more than 3 times compare to the paycheck I used to get as a post-doc. For job market, I think it is still better than other jobs including post-doc market if you are flexible for a location. There are a few cities that really saturated for pharmacist, but still many opening at other cities with good school system (for kids as a father), not need to be rural area. There are not many jobs that can make 100k - 120k.

For OP, I like to suggest you to consider 3 years program as well. Those school are usually more expensive for tuition per year, but it is only for 3 years, so it will be about the same compared to 4 years program. Also you can make more than 100k one year earlier. 3 years program might not be a ideal for most people, but considering your age and family, it is worth to consider.

 

[waiter]

Why do this to yourself? I wish I had done PHD and earn less money but better quality of life and work with intelligent peers.

 

[steveysmith54]

I think this is one of the exceptional case. A lot of teaching professors make less than half of it, especially in bio field.

I thought so too. But if you look at the link that I provided, transparent california, it shows you how much profs from community college are paid. I have heard that tenured full time positions are very hard to find, but the earning potential is there.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Jobs aren't supposed to be fun, that is why people have to be paid to do them. My general advice for anyone who is unhappy in their career, is to find outside interests to liven up their days. I can't imagine chucking all that money, time, and energy you've already put into a career, just to start at the bottom of another career. Seriously, just do your job and find some great hobbies to take up your free time (which you obviously have way to much of, or you wouldn't be considering changing careers.)

As for going into pharmacy specifically, first I would put in some significant time (like 6 - 8 months) working in a pharmacy (even if only part-time.) This will be hard to do, since no one will want to hire and train a cashier/runner/pharmacy tech who has a PH.D. You will really have to sell yourself in job interviews, about how you are planning to attend pharmacy school. The grass is always greener on the other side, and you will probably find (like most people do), that the job of a pharmacist is not the job you thought it would be. Ideally in retail, since that is where the majority of pharmacists find employment, but if you can land a tech job in hospital, then that is cool too.

The next thing to consider is where you want to live, geographically. Big cities, especially coastal big cities, and triply especially for eastern US coastal cities, are very glutted with pharmacists. 99% of the time, people who want to work as a pharmacist can get a job....the problem is that there are many pharmacists who do not want to move to where an available job is. (and in fairness, and if you are in a glutted state, ie New York, PA, etc., then it is a lot of work to find another state where the job situation is better, get licensed in that state, and move to that state--since most employers aren't going to hire you if you aren't already licensed and living in the area ready to start work.) Now I'm guessing since you are doing research, that you are probably in a big city. Would you be willing to move to a rural hospital (which is not a city of 100,000 as I've seen some posters call "rural"), or take a chain job in crime-ridden part of town? Many pharmacists 1st jobs are less than ideal, it's only by gaining experience working the less than ideal jobs, that they can successfully apply for a more ideal job.

Next, really consider the financial impact. Like someone pointed out, your math is off if you think you can make $120,000/yr, put $40,000 towards loans and have $80,000 left to live off of. You are single and dependentless, and presumably don't have a house, so you are going to be paying high taxes. And your salary will vary widely depending on if you work hospital or retail, and if you are living in a glutted area. IE, if you are in a pharmacist glutted area, you are probably more likely to be making $105,000 in retail and $85,000 in hospital (unless you are in CA, that's like a completely different country.) If you are are in a rural area, then $90,000 hospital and $115,000 retail is more likely.) Figure a good $30,000 in tax, so you are left with $55,000 or $75,000 depending on your job. Are you really going to put $40,000 in loans, and live on $15,000 or $35,000? I'm guessing you won't (although people do, do that, so you could.) Now in a rural area, COL will be considerably lower, so you will be able to live pretty comfortably on $55,000 or $75,000. Unless, you want to drive/fly to the big city every other weekend.....that will eat up your money fast.

Next, I'm guessing you have stable Monday - Friday hours working research. Know that going into pharmacy, you will be working all shifts, weekends, holidays. That may not matter to you, but it does to a lot of people. Regardless of how much experience you get, you will most likely be working shifts, weekends, holidays. Even if you go into management, at least until you reach a high level of management in retail, or are able to get DOP in a large hospital.

Only you can decide what is right for you. But seriously, for most people, the right thing would be to enjoy the fruits of your hard labor getting your Ph.D and research job, and spend your money and free time on a hobby or passion that you are really excited about.

 

[Tzero7]

Thanks for the latest replies.

Regarding my current job situation, it can't go on, nor do I want it to long term. I am working a part time job 20 hours a week that I don't even need a college degree for. When I decided I would be quitting my post doc position, a family member was able to get me a part time job that pays 15 dollars an hour with the company she works for. This literally was to just make sure I had some income.

I also am teaching a night class at a community college. I get paid 3,000 to teach a 3 credit course, I can teach adjunct here, but it doesn't pay much and there is no future at this community college other than 5-6 credits a semester and 3 credits during the summer.

Basically these are both short-term working options, that just allow me to get by. I have spent my free time each day looking at other fields, degree requirements, etc. Thankfully my bills are low and I am not supporting a family.

Ark did an excellent job explaining the post doc experience. Its not just a matter of I don't like it but I can mask my unhappiness with hobbies and other interests when I am not there. The money was awful, completely not worth the stress. It was making me miserable 24/7, I was losing sleep every night over it, etc. I had two projects, one was working fine and the other one I could not produce any data despite an insane amount of time and effort. The PI said my funding in his lab will be based on getting that project to work. At first he was helpful, but then it turned into I don't want to talk to you until you have something. Couple that with my passion not being in research, it got to a point where I finally decided its time to quit and move on. Technically, yes I could work when I wanted to, but it basically was expected I needed to be there all the time since I didn't have a story that could be published yet. I researched a lot of different ways to attack the issues with this project, I spent a decent amount of lab resources on experiments that failed. I think I would have gotten fired in a month or two, so I left on my own terms. I won't even put the experience on my resume, since the PI will tell whoever contacts him I was a waste. I even made sure everything I did was documented thoroughly in my lab notebooks, all samples were labelled/organized, to at least be respectful about leaving.

Why Pharmacy? I worked it in the past, I enjoyed pharmacy and pharmacology based classes I took in undergrad and grad school.

Job market? The more I read about it, the more it sounds like increased pharmD schools the past 10 years are pushing the market to saturation. Its a concern, I am not ignoring the people who are pointing this out. I am pretty concerned about going to a 3 or 4 year program and not being able to get a job.

All of why I still am in the considering phase, I haven't made up a decision and all things considered, I need to work part time in a pharmacy next and continue to look into the job market issue. So I won't be making a decision anytime soon. Everyone has been very helpful thus far, honestly I am very happy I found this forum and made my original post.

 

[Tzero7]

I am in a mid sized city. I would like to stay here as my immediate family, friends and girlfriend are all here. If I had to move to launch a career in something I would enjoy or would pave the way to a secure financial future, I would move to pursue it. I certainly am driven to be successful, that isn't the issue. Its figuring out where to direct that energy and focus.

Job opportunities for my degree in this area are not good.

Teaching is limited to adjunct with low pay at community colleges. Universities in the area are tenure track, research based positions. I don't want to go down that road even if I was offered a position, I don't have the passion to fight for grant funding and be successful, especially in a climate where funding has been cut or is in a downward trend. These positions you get 4-5 years to amass a good publication history and 1-2 grants. If you can't get funding, you are out after that period. Then you start over somewhere else. If funding is poor overall, it doesn't matter. Also, to get these positions, you need 2-3 successful post-docs. That is 4-7 years of stress doing something I don't want to do, to reach a position that can grow and have a salary of 60k or higher.

Post-docs are few and far between and after what I just went through, I wouldn't take one if it was offered to me.

Industry/private companies in my area are not common and there has been a recent national flood of academic people in my field switching to private industry. I have applied for a dozen or so jobs in the past 2-3 months. The ones I did get interviews for, I was told I am overqualified for the position or they want someone who has experience with experiment X, Y and Z. They are looking for a very specific skill set, and won't hire me unless I have it.

 

[MrBonita]

I will be honest. If you put in the hard work, get good grades and be active in the field of pharmacy, the pharmacy opportunity door will be open for so many pharmacy fields. You can do inpatient, outpatient, mail order, clinical, informatics, the list is endless. But like everyone is saying the field is way more competitive now. Do not just get in and get by with average grades and no extracurricular activities. There are plenty of degree mill pharmacy schools who just take money and do not help you advance as a pharmacist. So make sure you attend the best pharmacy school in your state as well.

List of possible jobs with a pharm.D below.
Career Option Profiles

 

[PharmtoCS]

Your real career options with a PharmD:

 

[Charcoales]

32 hours per week and full benefits, can't complain, plenty of time for hobbies and family it's pretty sweet gig to be honest.

 

[Amicable Angora]

You also need to try to consider how the job market will be 4 years from now when you graduate. Will probably be pretty ugly.

 

[Tzero7]

You also need to try to consider how the job market will be 4 years from now when you graduate. Will probably be pretty ugly.

That is one of the two things really keeping me on the fence, there are a decent amount of articles from credible sources predicting saturation and serious employment opportunities in 4 years.

 

[Amicable Angora]

That is one of the two things really keeping me on the fence, there are a decent amount of articles from credible sources predicting saturation and serious employment opportunities in 4 years.

Do you have to take a lot of prerequisites or are you basically good to apply now?

 

[Tzero7]

Do you have to take a lot of prerequisites or are you basically good to apply now?

In my area, there are 2 pharmD schools. One I have all the prerequisite courses and the other I am missing 2 classes but they told me they would take my advanced degree into consideration and either potentially waive the requirement or conditional accept, where I would have to take these two courses the summer before the program started. I am only missing Anatomy and Anatomy lab for this program.