Lincoln Memorial DeBusk (LMU-DCOM) Discussion Thread 2016-2017

[dt7538]

If your friends MCAT is a 488, they really need to study for it and retake it. The masters program is not a replacement for a poor MCAT score. Even though there are people in my class with low 20s (that were masters students) a lot of people did not get in with poor scores in that range even with the masters.
Its a much better investment to take a couple months to study MCAT, do well, then go to med school then to get a masters in anatomy or whatever else they offer here (pushing 30k tuition + more with living expenses). Make wise financial decisions. For most people the master's program is not a good choice, unless you have a decent MCAT and a poor UG GPA. the MCAT is not that bad of a test if you put the time into it. I was a non trad CS major, studied a few months and broke 90th%, DCOM only requires like 50%th, so he/she should be fine.

Don't waste 30k on the masters, it doesn't help people out really in med school, just adds to your student loan debt and the schools pockets.

Even if you get a 4.0 in _____ masters they wont take you with a 488, nor should they.

Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate it. So do you think he wouldn't be accepted to the masters with a 488 MCAT at all? Because I was thinking that he could apply, possibly get accepted, and then work on retaking his MCAT during the year. Then he could apply for the DO program.

And I'm surprised there were that many masters students that didn't get in. I thought this school had a high preference for them. Did they end up getting waitlisted?

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[dt7538]

100% agree on the retaking the MCAT even if they get into the Masters. The lowest MCAT I've seen accepted was low 20s on the old scale, and usually they're special circumstances. I'd have to disagree on the masters not being of any help though - Master students have a huge advantage over traditional 1st years in regards to time. I think the current Masters aren't allowed to take Histology anymore, but getting anatomy and neuro out of the way for Fall and Spring is big. Especially with getting neuro out of the way. It lets you spend the extra time on learning the pharm which very high yield for boards and essential for 2nd year Path. Yes - you are out a good amount of money, likely closer to $46k overall if you take the full loans - but if you use the free time during the Master year and during MS-1 to put into research, it'll be something that a lot of traditional MS-1s won't be able to do.

Thank you for your post also. My friend is in the military. Would this be considered a special circumstance? And I thought there would be some advantage to doing the MS program, like you said.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Thank you for your post also. My friend is in the military. Would this be considered a special circumstance? And I thought there would be some advantage to doing the MS program, like you said.

He would still likely have to retake the MCAT and pull it up into the low 20s at the minimum. Then he would have to completely kill his master year. Our school loves active/former military - but it won't make up completely for that low MCAT. It's difficult to study for the MCAT during your master year. Interviews for DCOM will likely be held for master students in January/February again like they were in the past, and if you don't have MCAT new scores in by then, your application gets tabled - not to mention it looks like you're very unprepared. He would not be able to afford to take the time to study for the MCAT while he's studying for anatomy during the Fall. Anatomy at DCOM is not a joke - it's a very rough class for a lot of 1st year medical students, but they do prepare you very well for the anatomy questions you expect to see on board exams. It doesn't seem feasible for your friend unless he can correct his MCAT before applying.

Edit: The guy I knew was former military with a low MCAT, but he was very much not defined by his MCAT score at all and faculty members saw that. Incredibly hard working and brilliant - that's why they likely overlooked his MCAT.

 

[trs88]

Thank you for your post also. My friend is in the military. Would this be considered a special circumstance? And I thought there would be some advantage to doing the MS program, like you said.

I also have to suggest that your friend retake the MCAT. It will open up a ton more doors than banking on one masters program taking them, and then hoping they gets accepted into med school from the program. The masters program is really stressful and I can't imagine have to take those classes, get good grades in them and then have to study for the mcat at the same time. Plus, what happens, if he gets in, does a nice job. Then doesn't get accepted to med school?

As I was typing this, FenderBenderEmergency beat me to it and their post is spot on.

 

[dt7538]

He would still likely have to retake the MCAT and pull it up into the low 20s at the minimum. Then he would have to completely kill his master year. Our school loves active/former military - but it won't make up completely for that low MCAT. It's difficult to study for the MCAT during your master year. Interviews for DCOM will likely be held for master students in January/February again like they were in the past, and if you don't have MCAT new scores in by then, your application gets tabled - not to mention it looks like you're very unprepared. He would not be able to afford to take the time to study for the MCAT while he's studying for anatomy during the Fall. Anatomy at DCOM is not a joke - it's a very rough class for a lot of 1st year medical students, but they do prepare you very well for the anatomy questions you expect to see on board exams. It doesn't seem feasible for your friend unless he can correct his MCAT before applying.

Edit: The guy I knew was former military with a low MCAT, but he was very much not defined by his MCAT score at all and faculty members saw that. Incredibly hard working and brilliant - that's why they likely overlooked his MCAT.

I will tell him, thank you. He was set on getting into a post-bacc or master's program this year, and then going to medical school then following year. Now it looks like he will have to take two years off out of undergrad, which he was afraid of doing in the first place.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

I will tell him, thank you. He was set on getting into a post-bacc or master's program this year, and then going to medical school then following year. Now it looks like he will have to take two years off out of undergrad, which he was afraid of doing in the first place.

From someone that was 4 years out of undergrad before I applied to the Masters, it's not something I would rush. The Masters is not a guarantee and it's unfortunate, but a lot of Master students do the program without being fully prepared for what it means. Doing the Masters and not being accepted is a waste of money. Doing the Masters and doing poorly essentially ruins any chance of ever getting into medical school. My stats when I applied for the Masters was a 3.1 cGPA, 2.9 sGPA with a 25 MCAT and I had enough on my CV overall to know that I was a strong candidate to be accepted from the Masters if I did well. Masters/dedicated post-bacs are gambles because adcoms will look at you and expect that you've turned a new leaf or have changed something about your life so that you can succeed. I'd like to say that since your friend is former military, he'll have the discipline to redo his MCAT with a little bit of study and after that if he does significantly better, he should just straight apply for DCOM. If in the circumstance that he doesn't get accepted or if he gets waitlisted, then the Masters would be a good option so that he can prove in person what he is capable of.

 

[student65748]

Do you have to get a 4.0 in the masters program to get in to DCOM, assuming decent MCAT score and all other ducks being in a row? I missed an A in Neuro by 1 point, but otherwise all A's in the masters program. Not sure whether I should be kicking myself or patting myself on the back for that performance.

 

[Jon Snow DO]

Do you have to get a 4.0 in the masters program to get in to DCOM, assuming decent MCAT score and all other ducks being in a row? I missed an A in Neuro by 1 point, but otherwise all A's in the masters program. Not sure whether I should be kicking myself or patting myself on the back for that performance.

A higher 3.X is what I have been told they are at least looking for. Have you talked to Janette to see how you are looking? I'm sure you will be fine.

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[Blunt Dissection]

Do you have to get a 4.0 in the masters program to get in to DCOM, assuming decent MCAT score and all other ducks being in a row? I missed an A in Neuro by 1 point, but otherwise all A's in the masters program. Not sure whether I should be kicking myself or patting myself on the back for that performance.

4.0 definitely not required. If you did that well, you should be fine. I've only known of one that did very well and didn't make it off the waitlist, but that's likely because they were very shy and it had something to do with their interview.

 

[CNM2017]

Does anyone know how many candidates are on the waitlist? Any movement?

 

[Spectreman]

Does anyone know how many candidates are on the waitlist? Any movement?

I know one guy who got off the waitlist before the last neuro exam, haven't heard anything since classes ended, should be soon.

 

[Spectreman]

Do you have to get a 4.0 in the masters program to get in to DCOM, assuming decent MCAT score and all other ducks being in a row? I missed an A in Neuro by 1 point, but otherwise all A's in the masters program. Not sure whether I should be kicking myself or patting myself on the back for that performance.

How are your other stats? Did you hit at least 490's on your MCAT? I know a student with good stats and decent grades in the masters who didn't get in. He thinks it was his interview, but I think he got kind of "chewed out" for skipping some classes and turning in work late for some of the masters classes. You really have to be on top of things all year long.

 

[student65748]

How are your other stats? Did you hit at least 490's on your MCAT? I know a student with good stats and decent grades in the masters who didn't get in. He thinks it was his interview, but I think he got kind of "chewed out" for skipping some classes and turning in work late for some of the masters classes. You really have to be on top of things all year long.

UG GPA was somewhere around 3.0, but did a post-bac and got 4.0, and last three years of UG + grad work has been successful. Got a 506 MCAT. Worked several years in healthcare. Published clinical trial medical research paper. Some volunteer work of various kinds here and there. 6 LORs including 1 DCOM faculty and 2 LMU profs. Didn't have problems like skipping classes and turning work in late--I took this year seriously because I am very motivated to get in to this school and become a DO.

Can interviews be that big of a deal breaker?

I appreciate you and everyone who's weighed in on this. Thank you.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

UG GPA was somewhere around 3.0, but did a post-bac and got 4.0, and last three years of UG + grad work has been successful. Got a 506 MCAT. Worked several years in healthcare. Published clinical trial medical research paper. Some volunteer work of various kinds here and there. 6 LORs including 1 DCOM faculty and 2 LMU profs. Didn't have problems like skipping classes and turning work in late--I took this year seriously because I am very motivated to get in to this school and become a DO.

Can interviews be that big of a deal breaker?

I appreciate you and everyone who's weighed in on this. Thank you.

100% yes. There was once a student that thought it'd be funny to joke about wanting to be a surgeon because he basically had control of someone's life during his interview. Needless to say, none of his other application stuff mattered. I hate to say it, but there are a number of DCOM students dismissed each year for professionalism issues. I'm glad our SPC does a good job of vetting them - last thing any of us want is for students to go on rotation and have the attendings/residents think we're nitwits because we come from DCOM.

 

[Spectreman]

UG GPA was somewhere around 3.0, but did a post-bac and got 4.0, and last three years of UG + grad work has been successful. Got a 506 MCAT. Worked several years in healthcare. Published clinical trial medical research paper. Some volunteer work of various kinds here and there. 6 LORs including 1 DCOM faculty and 2 LMU profs. Didn't have problems like skipping classes and turning work in late--I took this year seriously because I am very motivated to get in to this school and become a DO.

Can interviews be that big of a deal breaker?

I appreciate you and everyone who's weighed in on this. Thank you.

Dang, your stats sound really solid. The guy I know who got rejected out of the masters thinks his interview went poorly because he said his dad's a doctor. That doesn't seem like a reason to be rejected, especially performing well in the masters program. I'd take heart if I were you, I think you'll get in.

 

[podsquad24]

I'm in the same boat as some of the other master's candidates where I'm worried about getting in. My undergrad gpa is above 3.2 for both science and cumulative, master's GPA is around 3.7, have lots of clinical experience, shadowing, limited research, and good LORs. But my mcat is what I believe is holding me back (495). I've been told my mcat is okay by Janette but still worried

 

[bethygean]

I think the interview really does matter. I was accepted back in October with a 3.77 sGPA/cGPA and a 493 MCAT. I was so nervous in my interview but felt I was genuine too. They definitely look beyond just the stats.
P.S. I also think that your personal statement is so important, too!


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[CNM2017]

I know one guy who got off the waitlist before the last neuro exam, haven't heard anything since classes ended, should be soon.

What neuro exam are you referencing? Thanks for your response!

 

[student65748]

What neuro exam are you referencing? Thanks for your response!

I'm guessing the reference was to the final exam in the DCOM MedNeuro course that the medical and master's students took on 5/19.

 

[CNM2017]

I'm guessing the reference was to the final exam in the DCOM MedNeuro course that the medical and master's students took on 5/19.

Ah, had no idea - thanks!

 

[RandyKismyhero]

Ah, had no idea - thanks!

The masters students were told we wouldn't be reconsidered for acceptance until after Neuro grades were in, that's why everyone is using the test as a frame of reference. The committee met the week of the test for regular applicants, but they haven't met since then (or if they have they haven't sent out any acceptances) so we've all been in limbo for the past 2+ weeks.

 

[ksullzzz]

I am a masters student and I was accepted yesterday afternoon, as was another student. Good luck to you all!

 

[RandyKismyhero]

I am a masters student and I was accepted yesterday afternoon, as was another student. Good luck to you all!

Just wondering, did they notify you by phone or email?

 

[Jon Snow DO]

I am a masters student and I was accepted yesterday afternoon, as was another student. Good luck to you all!

Congrats!

 

[CNM2017]

I am a masters student and I was accepted yesterday afternoon, as was another student. Good luck to you all!

Congrats!

 

[shooting_star866]

Hey guys, so I was also a masters student and got off the waitlist Tuesday morning! I got both a call and an email! Goodluck to everyone on the waitlist, stay positive and have hope!! ❤️

 

[drianmachine9000]

Hey guys, so I was also a masters student and got off the waitlist Tuesday morning! I got both a call and an email! Goodluck to everyone on the waitlist, stay positive and have hope!! ❤️

CONGRATS! See you soon!!

 

[student65748]

Congratulations to those who just got pulled. Would you all mind sharing your stats? AS or BP? Applied last year or no? Thanks!

 

[CNM2017]

Hey guys, so I was also a masters student and got off the waitlist Tuesday morning! I got both a call and an email! Goodluck to everyone on the waitlist, stay positive and have hope!! ❤️

Congratulations! What time of the day did you receive a phone call? Did you receive the phone call and then a subsequent email or vice versa?

 

[shooting_star866]

Congratulations! What time of the day did you receive a phone call? Did you receive the phone call and then a subsequent email or vice versa?

Thank you!! I got the call and email around the same time a few mins apart around 11am on Tuesday!

 

[imax2011]

Janette is out until 15th I was told and no wait list move until then. Yet people are getting accepted from the wait list. Super confused about how this process works...

 

[Janey Smith]

Janette is out until 15th I was told and no wait list move until then. Yet people are getting accepted from the wait list. Super confused about how this process works...

If you figure it out-please share because I think it's the most frustrating process I've ever seen.

 

[Janey Smith]

For those of you that have been in the Masters Program: Would you recommend it? If someone entered in Fall 2017, would they be able to apply and interview for Medical School for Fall 2018 or do they have to wait a year? Any information you can give would be most helpful. Seriously considering the Post Bacc program, but I have many questions. Thanks!

 

[student65748]

For those of you that have been in the Masters Program: Would you recommend it? If someone entered in Fall 2017, would they be able to apply and interview for Medical School for Fall 2018 or do they have to wait a year? Any information you can give would be most helpful. Seriously considering the Post Bacc program, but I have many questions. Thanks!

You wouldn't have to wait a year as long as you meet the DCOM prereqs. The Masters program seems to be most effective for people who applied to DCOM the previous year and didn't get in (usually for low UG GPA), applied again the summer before they started the masters program, then got mostly A's in the masters program. It's a good program and gives you the chance to test your chops in med school classes and rub elbows with DCOM professors. I never interacted with anyone who did the post bacc program, though, so not sure how that works.

Beyond that I don't know if I could give you a recommendation without knowing more about your particular situation.

 

[shooting_star866]

For those of you that have been in the Masters Program: Would you recommend it? If someone entered in Fall 2017, would they be able to apply and interview for Medical School for Fall 2018 or do they have to wait a year? Any information you can give would be most helpful. Seriously considering the Post Bacc program, but I have many questions. Thanks!

So I was actually in the post bacc last year for a semester, then I transitioned into the masters my second semester and then this year I finished my masters in December and graduated! I didn't get a chance to take neuro but overall I loved the program and I am excited to start medical school in DCOM this fall!! If you all have any questions feel free to private message me and I can answer them for you! Also Janette was out of town until this Monday and then she went on vacation starting this Wednesday and will be out until June 15th! So I think that's what she was trying to say when she said no movement until she gets back! If that makes sense!

 

[podsquad24]

So I was actually in the post bacc last year for a semester, then I transitioned into the masters my second semester and then this year I finished my masters in December and graduated! I didn't get a chance to take neuro but overall I loved the program and I am excited to start medical school in DCOM this fall!! If you all have any questions feel free to private message me and I can answer them for you! Also Janette was out of town until this Monday and then she went on vacation starting this Wednesday and will be out until June 15th! So I think that's what she was trying to say when she said no movement until she gets back! If that makes sense!

Do you mind sharing your stats? AS or BP?

 

[shooting_star866]

.

 

[clamsauce]

for the person asking whether or not to do masters. if to fix a bad UG gpa and you have a 500+ MCAT. yeah sure do it i guess. if you have a not so hot UG and MCAT. do good on mcat first. adcoms seem to love mcats and its cheaper to bring up than GPA and retake your bads at a community college or state school (its soo much cheaper).

Just dont do it with a poor MCAT I know several that didnt (and a couple that did) get in with 495ish mcats. But if dishing out 30-40k, make sure you know you can get in.

There are also state school post baccs that cost less than LMU. even if not gunning for that said school, having a masters from LMU really doesnt mean much more to LMU than if from somewhere else like university of YourState.

Its just another paper on the wall that doesnt mean much once your in medical school and gives you a slight edge in anatomy I guess (unless you party your free time away lmao)

And if you have bad social skills and want to go to LMU die-hardly then go somewhere else for masters so you only have to hide your selfness for the 30 minute interview lol

 

[Spectreman]

for the person asking whether or not to do masters. if to fix a bad UG gpa and you have a 500+ MCAT. yeah sure do it i guess. if you have a not so hot UG and MCAT. do good on mcat first. adcoms seem to love mcats and its cheaper to bring up than GPA and retake your bads at a community college or state school (its soo much cheaper).

Just dont do it with a poor MCAT I know several that didnt (and a couple that did) get in with 495ish mcats. But if dishing out 30-40k, make sure you know you can get in.

There are also state school post baccs that cost less than LMU. even if not gunning for that said school, having a masters from LMU really doesnt mean much more to LMU than if from somewhere else like university of YourState.

Its just another paper on the wall that doesnt mean much once your in medical school and gives you a slight edge in anatomy I guess (unless you party your free time away lmao)

And if you have bad social skills and want to go to LMU die-hardly then go somewhere else for masters so you only have to hide your selfness for the 30 minute interview lol

Agreed, you need some kind of upward trend before considering the masters and at least a 495 MCAT. If you still aren't getting in, consider the masters. Candidly, it's a cash-grab for schools so you'll almost certainly get accepted. LMU takes the masters seriously, which is great, but you really need to ask yourself "am I right on the edge of getting accepted?" If not, spend a year somewhere cheaper and DO REALLY WELL.

 

[student65748]

There are also state school post baccs that cost less than LMU. even if not gunning for that said school, having a masters from LMU really doesnt mean much more to LMU than if from somewhere else like university of YourState.

Not sure if I agree with this part. Each DCOM class is made up of at least 20% LMU masters students, and that's probably being conservative. This would mean about half those in each DCOM class with masters degrees come out of the LMU program. That tells me the masters program has some weight at DCOM compared to other masters programs.

 

[bethygean]

Accepted students: have you guys received information about supplies/book list, orientation info, etc? I'm asking for a comparison to another school as they haven't released that info yet and wondering if it's normal to have to wait this long


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[dt7538]

Accepted students: have you guys received information about supplies/book list, orientation info, etc? I'm asking for a comparison to another school as they haven't released that info yet and wondering if it's normal to have to wait this long


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I have not! Has anyone else?

 

[clamsauce]

dont flip out they will have it in time for school


enjoy your summer

also wouldnt splurge on books. as you see on facebook pages half of the books people post are "unused and still in wrapping"

So why waste cash on stuff you dont use unless you have rich parents who pay for everything

 

[bethygean]

dont flip out they will have it in time for school


enjoy your summer

also wouldnt splurge on books. as you see on facebook pages half of the books people post are "unused and still in wrapping"

So why waste cash on stuff you dont use unless you have rich parents who pay for everything

Ya definitely don't have rich parents who pay for things...I wouldn't ask them even if they were. It also helps to pay for things over time and not all at once...gotta pay them bills


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[Blunt Dissection]

Ya definitely don't have rich parents who pay for things...I wouldn't ask them even if they were. It also helps to pay for things over time and not all at once...gotta pay them bills


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The schedule/booklist are all delayed likely because we're having a fairly significant turnover in faculty so administration is likely trying to see how to best sort things around. Personally the only books that I myself have personally used throughout OMS-1 has been Gray's Anatomy Review + BRS for practice questions, the Neuroanatomy atlas, the Physio book by Costanzo, and First Aid. Reading takes a significant chunk of time and educational research studies have shown that you remember only about 10-15% of what you end up reading, so asides from being for quick reference, I personally don't think the textbooks are worth the time or money.

Side note - I would also buy Complete Anatomy over getting an Anatomy Atlas. It's so much faster to just type in and search for the structure and to be able to see it in 3D vs trying to figure out the orientation on a Netter slide or something. If you really want a book Atlas, SOMA gives a Thieme atlas with your membership, or a lot of 2nd years will sell them to you still in shrink wrap.

 

[dt7538]

Just an update from previous posts - my friend with the 488 MCAT was rejected the masters program here. He was, however, invited to apply to the post-bacc program. Anyone have any information on this? Is this a generic response or are only a few selected?

 

[bethygean]

The schedule/booklist are all delayed likely because we're having a fairly significant turnover in faculty so administration is likely trying to see how to best sort things around. Personally the only books that I myself have personally used throughout OMS-1 has been Gray's Anatomy Review + BRS for practice questions, the Neuroanatomy atlas, the Physio book by Costanzo, and First Aid. Reading takes a significant chunk of time and educational research studies have shown that you remember only about 10-15% of what you end up reading, so asides from being for quick reference, I personally don't think the textbooks are worth the time or money.

Side note - I would also buy Complete Anatomy over getting an Anatomy Atlas. It's so much faster to just type in and search for the structure and to be able to see it in 3D vs trying to figure out the orientation on a Netter slide or something. If you really want a book Atlas, SOMA gives a Thieme atlas with your membership, or a lot of 2nd years will sell them to you still in shrink wrap.

Thanks so much!


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[clamsauce]

yeah im with the complete anatomy thing too, never used it until second year (sadly) but it was helpful to go back over anatomy as we went thru systems with it. Just dont get a netters atlas, thieme is way better and has charts in it that are easier to memorize.


10-15% of what you read ha ha. Thats only if you use text at face value and not what it is meant to be.... a medium between the authors mental visual representation of whatever he or she is talking about and your mind. Words are all but a telegraph of the information to be shared, nothing more. Nobody remembers the telegraphic medium via which it is sent.

I am surprised at how for a medical school people do not know how to retain information long term, which maybe you dont have that problem but 10-15% sounds more of an accurate figure for a novel, not an informational text. If somebody only remembers that much of what they read, in the words of dr leo "you are doing it wrong"

 

[Blunt Dissection]

yeah im with the complete anatomy thing too, never used it until second year (sadly) but it was helpful to go back over anatomy as we went thru systems with it. Just dont get a netters atlas, thieme is way better and has charts in it that are easier to memorize.


10-15% of what you read ha ha. Thats only if you use text at face value and not what it is meant to be.... a medium between the authors mental visual representation of whatever he or she is talking about and your mind. Words are all but a telegraph of the information to be shared, nothing more. Nobody remembers the telegraphic medium via which it is sent.

I am surprised at how for a medical school people do not know how to retain information long term, which maybe you dont have that problem but 10-15% sounds more of an accurate figure for a novel, not an informational text. If somebody only remembers that much of what they read, in the words of dr leo "you are doing it wrong"

Like any research, there are variables I'm sure. At least for me, reading is good for big picture understanding, but in helping with recall of details, it's not so great. The commitment to memory of the details come from things like practice questions, flashcards, lab time etc. The lectures are more or less what is covered in the book chapters anyways and I had no additional benefit from reading a book chapter than I did from watching the lectures.

 

[clamsauce]

Like any research, there are variables I'm sure. At least for me, reading is good for big picture understanding, but in helping with recall of details, it's not so great. The commitment to memory of the details come from things like practice questions, flashcards, lab time etc. The lectures are more or less what is covered in the book chapters anyways and I had no additional benefit from reading a book chapter than I did from watching the lectures.

Oh I agree with that. I used first aid and charts and the usual sketchy stuff. Just go down charts and made mental representations and mental repositories of everything. Same with lectures. Blocks of text are pain, hence why text books are blehhh. I'll find out in 4 weeks if it worked or not lmao but it did for everything else I've done in the past so. Only practice qs I did was uworld. If you can recite stuff from memory a mcq should be a walk in the park. Even if it's a page long and worded terribly.

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Mcq confuse some people. Never understood why. Maybe in opp but for everything else it's just a lame scenario + information. Scenerio doesn't even matter lol