liberty medical school <facepalm>

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2017 on will be interesting. I predict lots of people not matching.
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Silent Cool said:
Just read the thread.

Bottom line: DO schools are held to lower accreditation standards than MD schools, just as DO students are held to lower acceptance standards relative to MD students. DO schools accept a good chuck of people who probably should not be physicians. Liberty looks to be one of those schools. I do not endorse the new DO schools. They are non-profit in name but functionally for-profit. The AOA and COCA area responsible for this. It is all about the money. Please don't buy the ostepathic nonsense about "treating the whole patient." These schools exist to make money off students who would otherwise, in general, be unqualified for medical school.

Note that I'm a DO student.

Good luck. YMMV
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So are you including yourself in the "good chunk of people who should probably not be physicians" or "otherwise, in general... unqualified for medical school"?
 
FutureDO2016 said:
Don't forget VCOM is opening another branch campus in Auburn, Alabama opening 2015.

So basically this year there were 3 new schools in Indiana, North Carolina and Alabama and then Liberty in Virginia next year and then VCOM Auburn in 2015....AND most of the DO schools expanded their class sizes last year and this year....

Unless these schools start programs where students sign up and commit to primary care, I don't think opening new schools will solve the primary care problem.

http://iz3.me/InformzDataService/OnlineVersion/Public?mailingInstanceId=2573087&brandid=3535

http://www.auburnvillager.com/news/article_eefa4acc-f9f8-11e2-8098-0019bb30f31a.html
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I remember reading on the ACOM application thread last year that the VCOM Auburn campus was not going to open.

Also Touro-Middletown (~135 students) and OU-Dublin (50 students) are opening next fall.
 
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user3 said:
a combined match would help so much.
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While I love the idea of a combined match: how would that change anything? At all?

BTW: for the people suggesting there would be a lot of people not matching... I guess you are right in the strict sense of "matching". But if you mean "not finding a residency" you are way off base. There is still THOUSANDS more spots than there are american graduates. We just often find many FM/IM/Peds spots in middle-america to be beneath us. A mentality we need to change if we are going to let the politicians drive medical education and medicine itself. They don't recognize quality differences in training sites, and the quality difference in the physician put out by these sites. They just regonize the raw number of FP or IM or Peds docs put out.
 
DocEspana said:
While I love the idea of a combined match: how would that change anything? At all?

BTW: for the people suggesting there would be a lot of people not matching... I guess you are right in the strict sense of "matching". But if you mean "not finding a residency" you are way off base. There is still THOUSANDS more spots than there are american graduates. We just often find many FM/IM/Peds spots in middle-america to be beneath us. A mentality we need to change if we are going to let the politicians drive medical education and medicine itself. They don't recognize quality differences in training sites, and the quality difference in the physician put out by these sites. They just regonize the raw number of FP or IM or Peds docs put out.
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Well if these schools are opening and solely using underserved areas as their goal, why is it so wrong to have their students sign a contract saying they'll go into primary care in those areas?
 
NontradCA said:
Well if these schools are opening and solely using underserved areas as their goal, why is it so wrong to have their students sign a contract saying they'll go into primary care in those areas?
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I see nothing wrong with that aside from the logistics. You are committing the local programs to the same responsibility as the students. So long as the PDs are on board this is fine
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I see nothing wrong with that aside from the logistics. You are committing the local programs to the same responsibility as the students. So long as the PDs are on board this is fine
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Well, as DocE says a lot of those programs are unfilled as well so I don't think that'd be too much of an issue. The truth is no one wants to work in those areas, despite what they may state in their application or during interviews, which is why I think a contract would be warranted. I think it would just draw applicants who would be "less than stellar", which I don't see as a problem because those schools could take would be Carib students who would probably end up in one of these programs anyway.
 
NontradCA said:
Well, as DocE says a lot of those programs are unfilled as well so I don't think that'd be too much of an issue. The truth is no one wants to work in those areas, despite what they may state in their application or during interviews, which is why I think a contract would be warranted. I think it would just draw applicants who would be "less than stellar", which I don't see as a problem because those schools could take would be Carib students who would probably end up in one of these programs anyway.
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I agree. I'm just saying the agreement with the PDs would need to be established up front. You would also need to work with the match services to enforce it.
 
Let's be real, they are calling underserved their goal but they should have no requirement to restrict students to that any more than a preexisting school should have to do so. As long as pay in the city is remotely comparable to rural pay, physicians will flock to the city and as long as specialties pay considerably more than primary care physicians will fight for nonprimary residencies.
 
sb247 said:
Let's be real, they are calling underserved their goal but they should have no requirement to restrict students to that any more than a preexisting school should have to do so. As long as pay in the city is remotely comparable to rural pay, physicians will flock to the city and as long as specialties pay considerably more than primary care physicians will fight for nonprimary residencies.
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Generally speaking... the pay is nowhere near comperable. Rural physicians generally make A LOT more money than physicians in cities. Yet they still have issues recruiting. Its a mixture of 1) Except for the northeast, where the city physicians really get paid poorly, most areas still pay their city physicians enough that "more" money isnt enough of a bonus and 2) Rural hospitals expect A LOT more out of their physicians, duty wise, in general.
 
DO schools are popping up like McD's. Its bringing the whole profession down.
 
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http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm#pre-accredited-programs

It looks like the only new MD school planned at this point is Western Michigan University SOM (first class starts next fall).

I would be shocked if any of these "applicant" schools saw the light of day--

California Northstate University College of Medicine (CA) (for profit)
College of Henricopolis School of Medicine (VA) (med schools galore in VA)
King School of Medicine and Health Science Center (VA) (med schools galore in VA)
 
for profit schools are okayed by the LCME as of this year, after a TON of debate. Debate that is still ongoing to attempt to reverse the decision.
 
NontradCA said:
2017 on will be interesting. I predict lots of people not matching.
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Most students not matching are going to come from these joke schools like Liberty U. Newer DO schools are already at the margins. All these additional schools do is push the margins further away. DOs are going to be fighting for those malignant, **** IM/FM programs in rural areas that IMGs used to covet.
 
notbobtrustme said:
Most students not matching are going to come from these joke schools like Liberty U. Newer DO schools are already at the margins. All these additional schools do is push the margins further away. DOs are going to be fighting for those malignant, **** IM/FM programs in rural areas that IMGs used to covet.
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Which other schools are joke schools? Cuz everything I've read about the three new schools for 2013-2014 is that they are hitting the ground running. Especially Marian.
 
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No, it's not a huge problem, it just doesn't sit well with me. I didn't go in to an explanation because my sentiments echo the others in this thread, but a) I wish we would stop opening new schools without a concomitant increase in GME positions available, b) the funding by tobacco companies is sketchy on many different levels, and c) while I would like to see more religious institutions throw their resources behind healthcare, Liberty is associated with extreme versions of many of the attitudes that make people want to avoid Christianity (though nobody really has any idea how this will impact the education they provide or the candidates they train).

Obviously, they have every right to do this, and I guess in the end we do need to train a lot of doctors. But personally, it makes me uneasy, and that's something I can live with. Guess we'll see how this all plays out...
 
JediZero said:
No, it's not a huge problem, it just doesn't sit well with me. I didn't go in to an explanation because my sentiments echo the others in this thread, but a) I wish we would stop opening new schools without a concomitant increase in GME positions available, b) the funding by tobacco companies is sketchy on many different levels, and c) while I would like to see more religious institutions throw their resources behind healthcare, Liberty is associated with extreme versions of many of the attitudes that make people want to avoid Christianity (though nobody really has any idea how this will impact the education they provide or the candidates they train).

Obviously, they have every right to do this, and I guess in the end we do need to train a lot of doctors. But personally, it makes me uneasy, and that's something I can live with. Guess we'll see how this all plays out...
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It is not funded/supported by tobacco companies. If you read earlier on in this thread you will understand.
 
pattr said:
It is not funded/supported by tobacco companies. If you read earlier on in this thread you will understand.
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Ah. Didn't feel up to wading through ten pages, only read the first couple, so correct me if my view was dispelled. I guess my understand was that it was getting money from a state fund from taxes on Tobacco companies? I don't know, still kind of an indirect way that Big Tobacco could point and say, 'see, the sale of our products supports medical education' and score some PR points.
 
JediZero said:
Ah. Didn't feel up to wading through ten pages, only read the first couple, so correct me if my view was dispelled. I guess my understand was that it was getting money from a state fund from taxes on Tobacco companies? I don't know, still kind of an indirect way that Big Tobacco could point and say, 'see, the sale of our products supports medical education' and score some PR points.
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It's funded from the legal settlement when the govt has a court case saying "your cigarretes cause cancer and that's costing us money, so pay up"
 
sb247 said:
It's funded from the legal settlement when the govt has a court case saying "your cigarretes cause cancer and that's costing us money, so pay up"
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Haha, fair enough. In that case, quibble rescinded. ;)
 
can't wait till they start opening online medical schools.
 
JeetKuneDo said:
I'd rather this school not open. To me the biggest issue is the lack of quality AOA residencies. I feel that there is no more need for new schools to open up for at least 10 years. What will be the quality of rotations that this school will be able to offer if they open? Probably not very good.
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That is not your decision, the AOA just wants to keep opening schools. DO schools have become an alternative route to those who did not get into MD programs and those who do not wish to go overseas for medical education.
 
Seth Joo said:
That is not your decision, the AOA just wants to keep opening schools. DO schools have become an alternative route to those who did not get into MD programs and those who do not wish to go overseas for medical education.
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It's been that way for a very long time. Stop saying that the sky is falling; it isn't.
 
DrHealthpro said:
I have worked at a Catholic school and a Christian Fundamentalist school, and both view Evolution (cut the macro evolution crap) from ends of the spectrum. And .... being an insider, I was also pressured--at the Fundy school--not to talk to students about evolution . .. so what happens is that the school evolves into a group of manipulated faculty run by a fundamentalist Dean who has been given marching orders by the other fundamentalists who have the money.

Don't support ignorance and manipulation! Go to a school with academic freedom!
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So how do you know we evolved from monkeys? I actually like the fact there is a DO school that is not controlled by bunch of leftist nutters. Academia is dominated by leftist nutters.
 
Seth Joo said:
So how do you know we evolved from monkeys? I actually like the fact there is a DO school that is not controlled by bunch of leftist nutters. Academia is dominated by leftist nutters.
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Must. Not. Feed. Troll.

If you think the theory of evolution includes "humans evolving from monkeys" then you are EXTREMELY misinformed
 
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touchpause13 said:
Must. Not. Feed. Troll.

If you think the theory of evolution includes "humans evolving from monkeys" then you are EXTREMELY misinformed
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I have to admit with the millions of books written on it, with the thousands of classes taught on it, and the integral application that is borderline undisputed I find it hilarious that people like this exist.
I'm happy that we leftist nuts dominate medical education. I mean let's be frank here, having a doctor who actually cares about his community and actually understands human behavior and function is a better combo than a doctor who holds fast to bull**** views of the world that defend his indefensible actions and thus his tiny vapid mess of an ego.
 
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touchpause13 said:
Must. Not. Feed. Troll.

If you think the theory of evolution includes "humans evolving from monkeys" then you are EXTREMELY misinformed
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There are way too many leftists in academia, the fact that you are putting down Liberty University shows your bias. It amazes me how universities and colleges brazenly disregard the Constitution and often the Civil Rights of Students and Faculty.
 
Seth Joo said:
There are way too many leftists in academia, the fact that you are putting down Liberty University shows your bias. It amazes me how universities and colleges brazenly disregard the Constitution and often the Civil Rights of Students and Faculty.
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As someone who leans right, I agree with you. Though the whole evolution thing is a bad example. It's a scientific fact, and I wish conservatives would stop making it an issue. Then again, I suppose people have a right to disagree with evolution and still get an education.
 
Seth Joo said:
There are way too many leftists in academia, the fact that you are putting down Liberty University shows your bias. It amazes me how universities and colleges brazenly disregard the Constitution and often the Civil Rights of Students and Faculty.
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Painted quite a broad stroke, especially with the last statement there didn't you?

And I think the real root of the problem is that new DO schools are popping up like zits on a teenage boy. Regardless of the institution's religion, I would prefer if DO schools had to open up, that they would open up in more reputable schools. I don't think anyone here would mind at all if there were plans for a Notre Dame College of Osteopathic Medicine.
 
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First time member here as well, this seems like a great and very fun! I hope to help you guys out if you have any questions that I CAN answer!
 
Seth Joo said:
There are way too many leftists in academia, the fact that you are putting down Liberty University shows your bias. It amazes me how universities and colleges brazenly disregard the Constitution and often the Civil Rights of Students and Faculty.
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Because very few people with integrity and intelligence lean to the right. They tend to go with what is statistical and fact based, not what is convenient and lines up with their pre-existing views of the world.
 
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NurWollen said:
As someone who leans right, I agree with you. Though the whole evolution thing is a bad example. It's a scientific fact, and I wish conservatives would stop making it an issue. Then again, I suppose people have a right to disagree with evolution and still get an education.
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As I mentioned before many conservatives agree to believe in things that are convenient to their own existing views. If you peel layer away, you harm the integrity of the stem.
 
serenade said:
As I mentioned before many conservatives agree to believe in things that are convenient to their own existing views. If you peel layer away, you harm the integrity of the stem.
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What bugs me is that people treat a political wing like a belief system. You have to buy the whole package or you're branded a heretic. Why can't someone be a an evolutionist who attends church weekly, studies and practices science, who supports the right to bear arms, opposes abortion, supports the DREAM act and is against the death penalty?
 
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Seth Joo said:
That is not your decision, the AOA just wants to keep opening schools. DO schools have become an alternative route to those who did not get into MD programs and those who do not wish to go overseas for medical education.
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That's what DO schools have always been.
 
NurWollen said:
What bugs me is that people treat a political wing like a belief system. You have to buy the whole package or you're branded a heretic. Why can't someone be a an evolutionist who attends church weekly, studies and practices science, who supports the right to bear arms, opposes abortion, supports the DREAM act and is against the death penalty?
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Because especially with conservatives there is a suppression of moderates and liberal members. That being said you're pretty much a conservative liberal than a moderate republican.
 
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