Lesser known high paying fields?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Yadster101

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
487
Reaction score
144
So I have a relative that is a pain medicine physician and he probably makes like $500k/yr. He's a really smart and hard working guy that has spent ~15+yrs building up his practice. I thought that getting a pain fellowship would be super competitive for this reason but it was surprising to learn that pain fellowships are not ultra competitive. I actually started considering doing anesthesia --> pain more because of this but I found his day to day pretty boring and there's no guarantee that reimbursement will be the same by the time I get there.

Normally when students talk about making bank they discuss fields like ortho, derm, GI, optho, etc. Are there other lesser known fields, that aren't super competitive to get into, which have such high pay?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Work more, make more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 19 users
So I have a relative that is a pain medicine physician and he probably makes like $500k/yr. He's a really smart and hard working guy that has spent ~15+yrs building up his practice. I thought that getting a pain fellowship would be super competitive for this reason but it was surprising to learn that pain fellowships are not ultra competitive. I actually started considering doing anesthesia --> pain more because of this but I found his day to day pretty boring and there's no guarantee that reimbursement will be the same by the time I get there.

Normally when students talk about making bank they discuss fields like ortho, derm, GI, optho, etc. Are there other lesser known fields, that aren't super competitive to get into, which have such high pay?

-Interventional Cardiology (make sure it's a two year fellowship)
-Most General Surgery Fellowships (2-3 years after general surgery)
 
Members don't see this ad :)
-Interventional Cardiology (make sure it's a two year fellowship)
-Most General Surgery Fellowships (2-3 years after general surgery)
Invasive cards makes a lot, for sure, but they also work a lot. 60-80 hour weeks are normal (N=1 interviewed). People doing family med or ER and moonlighting on the weekends seem to do quite well too. To add to the poster's list though, radiology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
ER Locums
ER Rural
Family Rural
Family PP with you hiring NPs/PAs
Radiology/Anesthesia in general
Maternal Fetal Medicine off of OB/GYN (not sure how competitive the fellowships are)
Psych Private Practice - cash only after years of building up a loyal client base
Pain Medicine
Oncology - I've seen some pretty high salaries
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
ER Locums
ER Rural
Family Rural
Family PP with you hiring NPs/PAs
Radiology/Anesthesia in general
Maternal Fetal Medicine off of OB/GYN (not sure how competitive the fellowships are)
Psych Private Practice - cash only after years of building up a loyal client base
Pain Medicine
Oncology - I've seen some pretty high salaries
Locums IM can go for mid 400s. I know the hospital in my area lost all it's crit docs so they were offering high 400s plus a generous sign on bonus for contracts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
OP (and all those interested), I would recommend that you read the "know your worth" thread in EM.

This covers a lot of negotiation and the business/billing of medicine, and shows you that compensation really depends on payment structure and how much leverage you have. Doctors bill for a considerable amount as they are the ones bringing in all the money for the hospital.

How much the doctor sees of that all depends on the amount billed, collected, payer mix, management, and contract terms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
If money is your only goal, you can make a killing in almost any specialty you can think of. Some exceptions might be pathology and ophthalmology. Even though you mentioned ophthalmology as high-paying, I hear that well is drying up. As for stuff like FM and IM, be ready to make some sacrifices in terms of location. In IM's case, be ready to work your butt off too because that's not easy money.
 
Focus more on payer mix. What type of (private) health insurance your patients have. For example, if 100% of your patients are all using Medicare or Medi-Cal (as in California state health insurance), then that's the lowest reimbursement rates. You could be working like twice as much as another colleague in the same specialty who has a much better payer mix than you do for the same income. That's why it's a bit unfair for a lot of pediatricians since many kids are on Medi-Cal (among other reasons).

Related to this, look at billing codes. I don't know that much about them, but it seems to me that an ideal situation is being able to do relatively small or short but well reimbursed procedures (e.g., as can happen in pain medicine, but many other specialties too like dermatology). If you can do a bunch of those easy, short, small, but well reimbursed procedures along with a good payer mix, then you can make a lot with a fairly good lifestyle.

Specialties with big procedures like cardiovascular surgery seem flashy and do pay a lot, but they can also involve a lot of emergent situations which can wreak havoc on your lifestyle (e.g., taking lots of call where you are going in the middle of the night to operate).
 
According to the RadOnc forum, the specialty is anything but high paying these days. From what those guys are saying, going into that field is a good way to waste 5 years of residency time and a stellar step score just to end up making what a 7 on/7 off hospitalist makes while having a tiny fraction of the geographical flexibility of said hospitalist. Also, their governing society is in rabid pursuit of massive residency expansion despite the already ruinous job market. No thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
radiation oncology.

Good pay for relatively low hours and almost no emergencies.

It's a secret field that very few people know or think about.
There does seem to be a lot of doom and gloom on the radonc forum regarding the job market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Female pelvic medicine and reconstructive surgery...kind of secret, fairly competitive, but very high reimbursement and only about 40 new surgeons enter the field each year
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Female pelvic medicine and reconstructive surgery...kind of secret, fairly competitive, but very high reimbursement and only about 40 new surgeons enter the field each year
I hear there is a lot of volume coming out of Saudi Arabia
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
There does seem to be a lot of doom and gloom on the radonc forum regarding the job market.

n= a few residents, but several Rad Onc residents are getting offers for 500k+ and have secured sweet jobs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
This thread just illustrates why you should go into something you're passionate about instead of for money... Professional markets are too labile.

Sent from my XT1585 using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
In terms of lesser known/not competitive stuff there is definitely some aspect for the less people wanna do it the higher it pays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
In terms of lesser known/not competitive stuff there is definitely some aspect for the less people wanna do it the higher it pays.
Also the number of residencies slots available and necessity of services provided of practitioners contributes.
 
n= a few residents, but several Rad Onc residents are getting offers for 500k+ and have secured sweet jobs.

That has not been my experience talking to residents I know doing rad onc. Good luck getting a job in a desirable area. Hell, people I know we're lucky if they could find something somewhere in a state they wanted to live in. Also, I'm not talking about living in or close to LA/NYC/Chicago/SF--even in less desirable areas the market can be rough
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Is it worth going into a high paying field if it takes 7 years of residency? Radiology for example?

Wouldn't your debt be so high by that point that it doesn't matter?
 
Is it worth going into a high paying field if it takes 7 years of residency? Radiology for example?

Wouldn't your debt be so high by that point that it doesn't matter?

Radiology is usually 5+1 year of fellowship, so 6 total.

Over your career, a radiologist's lifetime earnings will surpass a pediatrician. Under several of the income based repayment plans, interest that can accrue is capped to varying degrees, so it's not *as bad*
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Radiology is usually 5+1 year of fellowship, so 6 total.

Over your career, a radiologist's lifetime earnings will surpass a pediatrician. Under several of the income based repayment plans, interest that can accrue is capped to varying degrees, so it's not *as bad*
Is it really rare or dumb to do 2 fellowships? Or just useless at that point since you wouldn't want to split your time once complete?
 
Is it really rare or dumb to do 2 fellowships? Or just useless at that point since you wouldn't want to split your time once complete?

I'm not saying that those people do not exist, but I've never met one. Radiology is not like path where it is not uncommon to find people who did two fellowships.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Does anyone have an opinion on how accurate Washington University's resource is on this type of stuff? It does list median salary.

Home
 
radiation oncology.

Good pay for relatively low hours and almost no emergencies.

It's a secret field that very few people know or think about.

On a downward trend salary-wise (like rest of medicine, it seems like) but still good compared to some other non-procedural fields.

According to the RadOnc forum, the specialty is anything but high paying these days. From what those guys are saying, going into that field is a good way to waste 5 years of residency time and a stellar step score just to end up making what a 7 on/7 off hospitalist makes while having a tiny fraction of the geographical flexibility of said hospitalist. Also, their governing society is in rabid pursuit of massive residency expansion despite the already ruinous job market. No thanks.

Pay has likely diminished due to decreasing reimbursements, burgeoning over supply as well as formation of multiple new "fellowships" which are generally not overtly educational, but a way to stay in a competitive/semi-competitive locale (aka desireable place to live) while attempting to wait out the job market one more year. There are certain fellowship types which are well-entrenched and respectable to pursue (focused exposure to a new technology or procedure base, significant exposure to pediatrics, etc), but most of them are fellowships in things most, if not all, of us do more than a fair share of in residency. At least one fellowship (in NYC) seems silly to even offer, IMO, as I imagine even a competent 2nd (out of 4) year resident in Rad Onc would be more than capable of providing the services deemed necessary. More residents with same or lower # of jobs = More folks willing to do fellowships to try to get an edge = Vicious cycle = Walking towards the road of radiology and pathology.


There does seem to be a lot of doom and gloom on the radonc forum regarding the job market.

Most residencies responded to a paper from a few years ago saying there was going to be a shortage of Rad Oncs, and therefore more needed to be trained. However, it was found (a few years later) that the paper made some pretty strong assumptions, most of which were unintentionally untrue or obviously going in the opposite direction. Despite this, residencies are expanding (and starting) at an alarming rate, and there is apparently nobody who wants to take the role of 'Limit the output of Rad Oncs for reasons of the job market'. The way they want to force people into the rural areas (once again, it's always a maldistribution rather than true shortage) is by cutting pay (cause 20 people interviewing for 1 or 2 jobs in a geographic local will race to the bottom) in reasonable areas, and the expansion of non-educational 'fellowships'. As private practices dry up and more and more places become 'satellites' to the big health system in each town (along with unequal reimbursement for hospital-based vs free-standing facilities)

There seems to be a push to decrease the number of treatments of radiation (aka fractions) to give when you are treating a site(also known as hypofractionation, popular in breast and, more recently, prostate and metastatic palliation nowadays) or to eliminate Rad Onc from treating certain sites/diseases at all. To maintain the same number of treatments over time (which is how Rad Onc gets paid in the FFS system) folks are seeing more patients, or taking pay cuts. In addition, reimbursement for things continues to shift down.

It's not all doom and gloom, obviously, and at least we don't have to deal with any issues of midlevel takeover (although instead of hiring 2 doctors, you may have 1MD and 1PA now), but these are the issues that are coming into play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
According to the RadOnc forum, the specialty is anything but high paying these days. From what those guys are saying, going into that field is a good way to waste 5 years of residency time and a stellar step score just to end up making what a 7 on/7 off hospitalist makes while having a tiny fraction of the geographical flexibility of said hospitalist. Also, their governing society is in rabid pursuit of massive residency expansion despite the already ruinous job market. No thanks.

Worked with rad onc in big city. Can confirm this is all true and scared me from it before med school even began.
 
Locums. My buddy once made $15,000 in a single shift. Granted it was a last minute deal on a holiday but I routinely made $4,000-5,000 a shift myself back in residency for last minute call ins. Credential yourself out to a large geographical area and just negotiate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Psych. I know some one who works 80 hour weeks & makes over 700k.

We had one give a lecture with similar numbers. Crazy.

Can confirm, both of my psych attendings made over 500k. I'm fairly confident one of them was making 7 figures. Only other physician I've personally known who may have made more was a spine surgeon that did a ton of IMEs on top of surgeries.

Which brings up IMEs (Independent Medical Exams) now that I think of it. Insurance companies in the state I was in would pay $900 per 15 minute appointment to perform medical exams on people receiving worker's comp. They were to determine whether the patient could go back to work or not and what limitations they would have if they went back to work (lift less than 25 pounds, no duties where they lift their hands above their head, can't be standing for more than x minutes, etc). The crazy thing about them is that even if the patient no-shows, the insurance company still pays for the appointment. He'd do about 30/day 3 days a week and do surgery the other 2 days. So he'd bring in almost 250k for the practice each month, and from what I understood from his staff he'd keep most of it. That's without counting any surgeries he did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Pay has likely diminished due to decreasing reimbursements, burgeoning over supply as well as formation of multiple new "fellowships" which are generally not overtly educational, but a way to stay in a competitive/semi-competitive locale (aka desireable place to live) while attempting to wait out the job market one more year. There are certain fellowship types which are well-entrenched and respectable to pursue (focused exposure to a new technology or procedure base, significant exposure to pediatrics, etc), but most of them are fellowships in things most, if not all, of us do more than a fair share of in residency. At least one fellowship (in NYC) seems silly to even offer, IMO, as I imagine even a competent 2nd (out of 4) year resident in Rad Onc would be more than capable of providing the services deemed necessary. More residents with same or lower # of jobs = More folks willing to do fellowships to try to get an edge = Vicious cycle = Walking towards the road of radiology and pathology.

As far as Radiology goes, the push towards sub specialization started well before the jobs rut and for good reason. Radiology is far too broad in scope to have mastered in 4 years (and really 3 given the new CORE exam and how easy most 4th years are).

Seeing a MSK radiologist read MSK exams vs a general radiologist can be an eye opener, especially if the general radiologist is an old timer who hasn't kept up to date.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Is it worth going into a high paying field if it takes 7 years of residency? Radiology for example?

Wouldn't your debt be so high by that point that it doesn't matter?

The only residency that I know of that's 7 years is neurosurg; they do a 1 or 2 year fellowship if they want to subspecialize. "Worth it" is all very relative: average neurosurgeon (this figure may be for private practice) after residency is ~700k. You could pay off your loans in like 2 years if you're aggressive about it. There are also repayment options (which may not exist by the time we graduate residency) that allow for loan forgiveness if you work in a non-profit (most (public) hospitals are) for 10 years. 7 year residency + 1 year fellowship + 2 years in a public hospital = probably like 50%+ of your loans forgiven? Sounds really damn good, especially if you want to do neurosurg.


Is it really rare or dumb to do 2 fellowships? Or just useless at that point since you wouldn't want to split your time once complete?

It's definitely rare to do 2 fellowships. Whether it's dumb depends on what your fellowships are and what you do with them. With an example in neurosurg (sorry, it's what I know): a fellowship in endovascular neurosurgery and in cerebrovascular and skull base surgery. That way the neurosurgeon can clip and coil, in a field increasingly populated by interventional neurologists, and do other minimally invasive treatment options.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The only residency that I know of that's 7 years is neurosurg; they do a 1 or 2 year fellowship if they want to subspecialize. "worth it" is all very relative: average neurosurgeon (this figure may be for private practice) after residency is ~700k. You could pay off your loans in like 2 years if you're aggressive about it. There are also repayment options (which may not exist by the time we graduate residency) allow for loan forgiveness if you work in a non-profit (most (public) hospitals are) for 10 years. 7 year residency + 1 year fellowship + 2 years in a hospital = probably like 50%+ of your loans forgiven? Sounds really damn good, especially if you want to do neurosurg.




It's definitely rare to do 2 fellowships. Whether it's dumb depends on what your fellowships are and what you do with them. With an example in neurosurg (sorry, it's what I know): a fellowship in endovascular neurosurgery and in cerebrovascular and skull base surgery. That way the neurosurgeon can clip and coil, in a field increasingly populated by interventional neurologists, and do other minimally invasive treatment options.
Can fellowships still be done during research years?
 
Do some of you guys actually ask your attendings how much they make? Honestly curious. I'm tempted, just don't want to come off as a dingus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Do some of you guys actually ask your attendings how much they make? Honestly curious. I'm tempted, just don't want to come off as a dingus.
Ways to find out salary:
1. Look it up online at public institutions (you can look up any state employee)
2. Ask residents, they'll often tell you what they know and tend not to care
3. Ask faculty how much "doctors in their field earn on average" (they'll likely base this off of what they make as well as their colleagues)
4. Some faculty will drop it into conversation (I knew a neuro guy who dropped that he makes only 750k a year because he takes so much vacation)
5. If you're really close to a faculty or attending you could ask them point blank, but that's generally more risky than #1-4.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I recommend asking each attending you work with on every rotation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
If money is your only goal, you can make a killing in almost any specialty you can think of. Some exceptions might be pathology and ophthalmology. Even though you mentioned ophthalmology as high-paying, I hear that well is drying up. As for stuff like FM and IM, be ready to make some sacrifices in terms of location. In IM's case, be ready to work your butt off too because that's not easy money.
It's only a sacrifice in location if you don't like being innawoods
 
Do some of you guys actually ask your attendings how much they make? Honestly curious. I'm tempted, just don't want to come off as a dingus.

I ask general questions. What's a typical salary in X field? What's the reimbursement for your typical patient? From private insurances vs. Medicare/caid? What's the take home look like in private practice vs. employment? etc. Half the time my attendings have either given me enough info that you can get a decent idea of what they're making, give me a range (I make over X) or straight up told me. You can definitely get a decent idea by asking the right questions (which is not how much do you make?) so you don't come off as the dingus...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I've had attending tell me directly. Some to brag, and others to educate. I had no idea rural ER can pay 900k.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I've had attending tell me directly. Some to brag, and others to educate. I had no idea rural ER can pay 900k.

That seems insane, 500k for midwest ER seems high but attainable. For 900, how many hours? nights? locums?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Those answers make sense. Was curious how so many people knew their attending's salaries, but I could see it coming out like that.
 
Top