Ladies, will you change your last name after marriage?

[wcbcruzer]

You suppose? LOL

The fact is that there are significant physical and gender-role differences between men and women and that is reflected in the social construct of our society and its institutions.

That has everything to do with last names and it is ignorant for women in the post-feminist era to pretend like women and men are equal.

Well said. Funny thing is, if the man says he'll relax home, clean the house, and raise the kids while the woman works to make money, most women won't stand for it.

I'm not against women's rights or even keeping maternal last names for that matter (see my first post). But it's the whole feminist attitude that just bugs me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gwen]

mcgillgrad - besides physical strength, do you think women are inferior to men? your answer will tell us everything we need to know about you in this thread.

 

[gwen]

i would hope that a modern woman isn't that hypocritical. but i agree with you, wcbcruzer, that there are women like that out there.

Well said. Funny thing is, if the man says he'll relax home, clean the house, and raise the kids while the woman works to make money, most women won't stand for it.

QUOTE]

 

[BigJuicyWart]

Well said. Funny thing is, if the man says he'll relax home, clean the house, and raise the kids while the woman works to make money, most women won't stand for it.

I'm not against women's rights or even keeping maternal last names for that matter (see my first post). But it's the whole feminist attitude that just bugs me.

I agree. This whole feminist "movement" has gotten so out of hand that it's unbelievable. Just a few things I noticed by glancing through the post.

Marriage is not a competition. Marriage is not about retaining individuality. Marriage is not about "I," but rather about "We." My wife is longer "Sally Smith" and I am no loner "Jim Jones", but WE are "Jim and Sally Jones." If you go into marriage with the attitude that you can still be yourself completely and succeed (feminist propaganda), I wish you the best of luck.

Second of all, just because a man requests his wife take his last name does not mean she will become his slave or property. This stupid feminist attitude needs to stop.

Thank God my wife feels the same way about all this that I do.

 

[gwen]

you know, women have worked very hard to prove that they can be moms and career-oriented also. that in itself is proof that marriage is about individuality and togetherness.

i don't know why a guy has to feel offended if a woman wants to retain her last name. its great that your wife took your last name...that's pretty traditional and still the norm IN THIS COUNTRY. no one said that marriage is not about coming together...but why do we have to follow your norm?

 

[dpmd]

Second of all, just because a man requests his wife take his last name does not mean she will become his slave or property.

I highlighted the important part. I think it is fine that you want the same names so that you feel like more of a unit. I she is happy with that name being yours, great. If you two decide together on creating a new name (some people do this), great. I she feels really attached to her name and you are ok with her requesting that you take hers (not saying you have to do it, just that you would be open to the discussion), great. What bothers some people is the though that someone whould demand a name change.

Also, some people can feel just as much like a team without having the same last name. Hell, you could say that to really let go of individuality and become a "WE" you should change your first names to match too.

 

[tncekm]

I can't believe this thread is still going on. Its ridiculous that some people are so offended by what is very simply no more than a tradition that has simply carried on through many millenia--a tradition that at this stage in our cultural development, as westerners, has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority of members of a legal union of any sort for most people.

This topic is not, at all, any different than the cultural traditions of wearing a ring on your "ring finger' of your left hand, or of wearing a ridiculously expensive and uber-fancy princess-like outfit as a wedding dress. These are traditions people simply enjoy and that have persisted throughout countless centuries. One might as well wear their wedding ring as a nose-ring, or decide to be married in the nude. In my estimation, those are equivalent statements to not accepting the traditional route of the woman taking the mans last name.

To most people, not just men, defying these traditions is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at creating a false-sense of individuality. And, in the case of refusing to take your husbands name, most people would view it as a lack of respect, regardless of purpose.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone should care what everyone else thinks. That's ridiculous, IMHO. And, I'm not saying that if a man and a woman decide to keep their respective last names, or do something else 'creative' with their last names after they become a "legal unit" that they are showing some sort of disrespect for one another, obviously that's not the case for most people.

What I'm saying is that this is a ridiculous debate because by accepting your husbands last name you're not "admitting inferiority", or agreeing to become his servant, or even being original. You're just making a "statement" against an age old tradition and complicating your lives by being legal units with different last names to an end that nobody cares about, and is irrelevant in every day life, only to convince yourself that "you're not inferior" (which nobody said you were in the first place).

My fiancee has jokingly said that if I were a "bum" she'd make me take her last name, and I agree with the sentiment. But, in that case, I'd offer advice which she doesn't, and I'm sure none of you need: don't marry that kind of person. If you'd be embarrassed / reluctant to take your mans last name because he's a bum, don't marry him!

Having said all of that, I do believe that women often DO NOT get the respect they deserve in many aspects of life, and especially as professionals. Your energies would be much better served if they were focused on topics that aren't meaningless/harmless.

P.S. If the roles were reversed and historically men took their women's last names, I really don't think my position would change. Why would I care if I participated in mellenia of cultural development?

 

[shmrshines]

i would hope that a modern woman isn't that hypocritical. but i agree with you, wcbcruzer, that there are women like that out there.

Well said. Funny thing is, if the man says he'll relax home, clean the house, and raise the kids while the woman works to make money, most women won't stand for it.

QUOTE]

ha, I think we won't stand for it not out of hypocrasy(spelling) but out of not wanting to give up control of raising our kids the right way. Although I'm sure most of us trust our men to be sufficient supporters in raising our kids I'm not sure if we trust them enough to do the job exactly the way we would do it. i think it's difficult for many of us to give up the reigns when it comes to our children.

 

[tncekm]

If a woman can be the bread-winner like the man, why can the man not be the home-maker like the woman? If you've got an excuse for that, its hypocrisy no matter how you try to spin it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[shmrshines]

If a woman can be the bread-winner like the man, why can the man not be the home-maker like the woman? If you've got an excuse for that, its hypocrisy no matter how you try to spin it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just difficult.

 

[wcbcruzer]

ha, I think we won't stand for it not out of hypocrasy(spelling) but out of not wanting to give up control of raising our kids... i think it's difficult for many of us to give up the reigns when it comes to our children.

I agree with you. See, gender roles do exist.

 

[shmrshines]

I agree with you. See, gender roles do exist.

Oh, they absolutely exist! From the time we put that pink bootie on the baby girl and the blue on the baby boy we are shaping the role that the child will have in the world. Thank goodness,IMO, there's a such thing as original thought!

 

[Luxian]

This topic is not, at all, any different than the cultural traditions of wearing a ring on your "ring finger' of your left hand, or of wearing a ridiculously expensive and uber-fancy princess-like outfit as a wedding dress. These are traditions people simply enjoy and that have persisted throughout countless centuries.
...
To most people, not just men, defying these traditions is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at creating a false-sense of individuality. And, in the case of refusing to take your husbands name, most people would view it as a lack of respect, regardless of purpose.

Oh, well, I suppose I shouldn't add to the flames but here's a few things.
One, I probably won't take my boyfriend's last name if and when we get married. It's not that I don't love him or don't want to be associated with him, but I already have a very difficult to pronounce first name, and coupled with his difficult to pronounce last name I'd be stuck with people stumbling all over everything. I'm fine with any potential kids having his last name, but just for convenience sake, I'm keeping mine.

As for the other traditions you list, the engagement ring tradition is, oh, about 100 years old -- not countless centures. Since my parents divorced when I was 7 and I grew up with my mom, I really don't think I'll be having my father walk me down the aisle. I also don't think there's any reason why I should wear a white dress when I look terrible in white. I think something gorgeous and stately in some other color will do just as well.

Am I raging against the machine? Nope. Am I an angry feminist? Nah, I really don't think so. I just think that in this day and age, especially when I'll be paying for my own wedding, I want it to be how WE (the couple) want it and not how some wedding industry coordinator says 95% of WASP America does it. You say "these are traditions people simply enjoy" and insofar as they do, great! People should absolutely have the right to wear a big $2000 froofy white dress with all the trimmings. I just choose otherwise.

My 2 cents.

 

[Luxian]

ha, I think we won't stand for it not out of hypocrasy(spelling) but out of not wanting to give up control of raising our kids the right way. Although I'm sure most of us trust our men to be sufficient supporters in raising our kids I'm not sure if we trust them enough to do the job exactly the way we would do it. i think it's difficult for many of us to give up the reigns when it comes to our children.

It's definitely hard, especially when for the first few months at least, the mother really does play a larger role. My friend did manage an interesting transition. When she had her baby, she stayed home for the first four months. When she went back to work, her husband stayed home for a month using his paternity leave. This meant that both of them had experience dealing with the baby on their own and made both of them much more confident, capable, and trusting of each others methods.

Not everybody can manage that, of course, but giving the guy a chance can sometimes do wonders!

 

[tncekm]

Oh, well, I suppose I shouldn't add to the flames but here's a few things.
One, I probably won't take my boyfriend's last name if and when we get married. It's not that I don't love him or don't want to be associated with him, but I already have a very difficult to pronounce first name, and coupled with his difficult to pronounce last name I'd be stuck with people stumbling all over everything. I'm fine with any potential kids having his last name, but just for convenience sake, I'm keeping mine.

Practical reasons are a reasonable exception, IMHO. Although, I think for complete practicality you may want to consider hyphenating. JMO.

As for the other traditions you list, the engagement ring tradition is, oh, about 100 years old -- not countless centures.

I referenced wedding rings on the ring finger, and they've been a part of many western traditions since 332BC (starting with the greeks) and ancient Egyptian civilization long before that.

tradition Since my parents divorced when I was 7 and I grew up with my mom, I really don't think I'll be having my father walk me down the aisle. I also don't think there's any reason why I should wear a white dress when I look terrible in white. I think something gorgeous and stately in some other color will do just as well.

Unless you stayed close to your dad, I don't blame you. And I never said anything about "white" dresses, color has varied over time. Usually "considerably more fancy than normal" has not. Although, there are always a few of those people who decide to get married barefoot and in overalls in the middle of a swamp that is being put in danger by human expansion.

Am I raging against the machine? Nope. Am I an angry feminist? Nah, I really don't think so. I just think that in this day and age, especially when I'll be paying for my own wedding, I want it to be how WE (the couple) want it and not how some wedding industry coordinator says 95% of WASP America does it. You say "these are traditions people simply enjoy" and insofar as they do, great! People should absolutely have the right to wear a big $2000 froofy white dress with all the trimmings. I just choose otherwise.

My 2 cents.

You didn't say you were doing anything "crazy", so I definitely don't think you're "raging against the machine". Its very practical to have a last name that people can pronounce, especially if you're going into a profession where people will be throwing your name around quite a bit (like medicine). Your reasons for not taking his last name are valid, they're not "I'm an accomplished woman with my own identity, and I don't want to be referred to with my 'husbands' last name like he's my owner/caretaker."

 

[MaddieMay]

My last name is something very similar to "Dix" and I got teased enough in high school for it. I just can't be Dr. "Dix." I'm dying to take my fiance's name so I can be Dr. Moore.

 

[tncekm]

The best last name I've seen to date is "Fagot" (pronounced Fa joe). That's grounds for taking the ladies name, IMHO If anything, for the kids sake!

 

[Luxian]

Although, I think for complete practicality you may want to consider hyphenating. JMO.

Whoo-boy! That would mean a five syllable monstrosity with a five consonant cluster in the middle. No thank you!

 

[tncekm]

You'd have the luxury of picking and choosing which of those syllables you used for introductions and casual relationships. The practicality I speak of is largely legal.

E.g. If you're Mrs. Amy A. Smith-Putin, go by Mrs. Smith, or Putin, depending on which is practical. Legally, you're both. JM .02

 

[randomedstudent]

Well said. Funny thing is, if the man says he'll relax home, clean the house, and raise the kids while the woman works to make money, most women won't stand for it.

I'm not against women's rights or even keeping maternal last names for that matter (see my first post). But it's the whole feminist attitude that just bugs me.

Well, I can't speak for most women, but I for one would whole-heartedly support my husband if he wanted to be a stay at home dad. I REALLY hate to cook and clean and can only tolerate kids in relatively small doses (could never be home with them all day so I would be working either way). It would be so nice to come home to a clean house and a home cooked meal!

 

[SwimSwam]

I kept my maiden name when I got married. Many people still try to address me as "Mrs. Husband's Name" - including my in-laws.

 

[wcbcruzer]

It would be so nice to come home to a clean house and a home cooked meal!

Yeah I know...

 

[drelizabeth292]

I like my last name and I think since I was the one that put all the hard work to get into medical school that I should be the one that hears Dr. "my last name" for the rest of my life and not my husbands.

 

[McGillGrad]

I like my last name and I think since I was the one that put all the hard work to get into medical school that I should be the one that hears Dr. "my last name" for the rest of my life and not my husbands.

We'll see what you have to say about that when you actually find a guy to marry.

 

[Squiddie]

I think the only reason I would change my last name when I get married is if my husband's name is easier to pronounce than mine (which is consistently butchered).

 

[Goran]

I'm not a fan of hyphenations. Lately, I've seen a lot of women do this instead: Amy Smith Putin. My question is if I'm Dr. Smith and I choose to become Mrs. Smith Putin, do I have to change the name of my medical license as well?

 

[McGillGrad]

I'm not a fan of hyphenations. Lately, I've seen a lot of women do this instead: Amy Smith Putin. My question is if I'm Dr. Smith and I choose to become Mrs. Smith Putin, do I have to change the name of my medical license as well?

I would imagine so, because it is substantially different.

Where does it end? Will your daughter hyphenate her name, too?

We've only had consistent last names for the past few hundred years out of thousands years of civilization. Something to think about.

 

[Goran]

I would imagine so, because it is substantially different.

Where does it end? Will your daughter hyphenate her name, too?

We've only had consistent last names for the past few hundred years out of thousands years of civilization. Something to think about.

I think you misunderstood my post. I DON'T want to hyphenate. I simply want to keep my last name professionally. My kids would have my future husband's last name.

Does anyone know the answer to the above question?

 

[Dorise04]

I agree. This whole feminist "movement" has gotten so out of hand that it's unbelievable. Just a few things I noticed by glancing through the post.

Marriage is not a competition. Marriage is not about retaining individuality. Marriage is not about "I," but rather about "We." My wife is longer "Sally Smith" and I am no loner "Jim Jones", but WE are "Jim and Sally Jones." If you go into marriage with the attitude that you can still be yourself completely and succeed (feminist propaganda), I wish you the best of luck.

Second of all, just because a man requests his wife take his last name does not mean she will become his slave or property. This stupid feminist attitude needs to stop.

Thank God my wife feels the same way about all this that I do.

I totally agree!

 

[drelizabeth292]

We'll see what you have to say about that when you actually find a guy to marry.

i live with my boyfriend right now and we are going to get married after im done applying for medical schools this year. it was a money concern actually since we want a month long honeymoon (europe or tahiti not sure yet) and there was no way to afford the application process and the honeymoon this year. he knows my plan about keeping my last name and he is completely fine with it. thanks.

 

[drelizabeth292]

I think the only reason I would change my last name when I get married is if my husband's name is easier to pronounce than mine (which is consistently butchered).

good call!

 

[McGillGrad]

i live with my boyfriend right now and we are going to get married after im done applying for medical schools this year. it was a money concern actually since we want a month long honeymoon (europe or tahiti not sure yet) and there was no way to afford the application process and the honeymoon this year. he knows my plan about keeping my last name and he is completely fine with it. thanks.

Poor guy. He must have no self-confidence or doesn't care how emasculated he will look to everyone around him. That's what is going to happen no matter what you think because that's society and it takes generations for social mores to change.

 

[Squiddie]

Poor guy. He must have no self-confidence or doesn't care how emasculated he will look to everyone around him. That's what is going to happen no matter what you think because that's society and it takes generations for social mores to change.

Or maybe he is, as drelizabeth said, completely fine with it. I know a lot of guys who, regardless of their political views, don't really care on the name change front. It may not be that the movement as a whole is taking on, but there's a lot more apathy about it.

When questioned, some guys I know asked "why wouldn't she take my name?" and then when I simply said that their hypothetical wives simply didn't want to, they shrugged it off with something to the effect of "it's her decision".

As for the woman who wanted to become Mrs Smith Putin (no hyphenation), there was a family in my high school whose mom did that and she actually passed on the non-hyphenated name to her children. It was a little confusing at first, they would list the kids as Jane S Putin (thinking Smith was a middle name) or Jane Smith-Putin, but eventually, they caught on*.

*not the real names, obviously, I just kept the name you used as an example.

 

[spooge]

Just happened on this thread about last names. First, I did not want my wife to change her name. It is a pain in the butt and archaic. How many guys are going to change their name?

Also, as far as this goes

"Poor guy. He must have no self-confidence or doesn't care how emasculated he will look to everyone around him. That's what is going to happen no matter what you think because that's society and it takes generations for social mores to change."

I survied OCS, SERE, API, Primary, Secondary and Advanced Flight Training and flew for the United States Navy. I have driven more fixed-wing aircraft off-of and on-to aircraft carriers than you can imagine. I have no problem with my wife not changing her last name, and I sure as hell do not feel emasculated or have problems with self confidence. And if one feels lucky and wants to call me out on it I am more than happy to make the appropriate response.

 

[drelizabeth292]

thanks for the support spooge and squiddie!

 

[McGillGrad]

Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that you look like less of a man because your wife doesn't respect you enough to maintain tradition that is institutionalized in every aspect of our culture. That just seems very selfish of her and passive of you to allow.

I didn't create the system, but this is instituional, not just cultural. That's why it is such a bureacratic headache to have her keep her father's last name instead of taking yours.

Denial is a powerful thing, flyboy. BTW- my father was a paratrooper and we all know what the Airforce thinks of you navy boys...

I survied OCS, SERE, API, Primary, Secondary and Advanced Flight Training and flew for the United States Navy. I have driven more fixed-wing aircraft off-of and on-to aircraft carriers than you can imagine. I have no problem with my wife not changing her last name, and I sure as hell do not feel emasculated or have problems with self confidence. And if one feels lucky and wants to call me out on it I am more than happy to make the appropriate response.

 

[spooge]

My wife has her mother's part of her mother's last name and her mother has her mother's part of her mother's last name...its a Native American thing...does that qualify for the 1000's of years of tradition and institution you are whining about. You are starting to sound insecure about yourself, why would a name do that?

Remember that assuming makes and ass out of you, and this time, not out of me.


Quote:
Denial is a powerful thing, flyboy. BTW- my father was a paratrooper and we all know what the Airforce thinks of you navy boys...

Yeah, they think to themselves why didn't I join a real branch of the armed services and try to fly the plane instead of driving a desk or jumping out of the plane...ask your dad about that hardcore bicycle test

 

[McGillGrad]

Sure it's a native american thing. That's why you waited to post that info now, instead of mentioning it before. I call BS on your little lie. It's okay, though. You gotta lie sometimes to make yourself feel better.

Yeah, those paratroopers are pansies...haha... you can lie to yourself all you want. It doesn't change the truth. Now go run home to your wife and try on the new skirt she just bought you.

My wife has her mother's part of her mother's last name and her mother has her mother's part of her mother's last name...its a Native American thing...does that qualify for the 1000's of years of tradition and institution you are whining about. You are starting to sound insecure about yourself, why would a name do that?

Remember that assuming makes and ass out of you, and this time, not out of me.


Quote:
Denial is a powerful thing, flyboy. BTW- my father was a paratrooper and we all know what the Airforce thinks of you navy boys...

Yeah, they think to themselves why didn't I join a real branch of the armed services and try to fly the plane instead of driving a desk or jumping out of the plane...ask your dad about that hardcore bicycle test

 

[Squiddie]

Talking to my mother, who did a lot of work with our family tree a few years back, revealed a fun fact in my family:

Somewhere in the late 19th century, a man in my family actually took his *wife's* last name. How's that for progressive? And this was a man who was a fairly decorated soldier in the Spanish-American war. I doubt he felt emasculated.

And I'm going to have to side with spooge, being future Navy. The Chair Force spends more time flying their paper airplanes.

I didn't create the system, but this is instituional, not just cultural. That's why it is such a bureacratic headache to have her keep her father's last name instead of taking yours.

Have you been to the Social Security Office? I went to get my card replaced about two years back, and a woman who had just gotten married and needed to change the name on her card was there three hours longer than I was. I don't know about you, but that sounds like bureaucratic headache to me.

 

[dpmd]

There has been absolutely no downside to having kept my last name when I got married. No one I know looks down on my husband for "allowing" it, and he is confident enough not to give a rat's ass what anyone else thinks. I didn't have to change my name on such official documents as my passport, social security card. There is no discrepancy in my education history or my army personnel file because of a name change. No one has ever not believed we were not married, and he had no trouble getting info on me when I was in the hospital. Some folks call me by his last name every once in a while (mostly telemarketers, and some distant relatives) and I don't care. If it will make a difference I correct them, but otherwise I let it slide. I think it is sad that some people want to be so judgmental about this stuff.

 

[pianola]

Not changing my last name. My mom didn't. Why should I? The idea that it's emasculating to not have a woman take the man's last name has got to be positively ancient. I don't know ANYONE who believes that.

I had a friend who named the son with the father's last name and the daughter with the mother's last name.

 

[TheBee]

Have you been to the Social Security Office? I went to get my card replaced about two years back, and a woman who had just gotten married and needed to change the name on her card was there three hours longer than I was. I don't know about you, but that sounds like bureaucratic headache to me.

I got married recently and decided to take my husband's name. It only took me about 10 minutes, waiting and all, at the social security office. You can download the necessary forms ahead of time, and it really speeds things up. It actually took me longer to find my birth certificate!

 

[Squiddie]

I got married recently and decided to take my husband's name. It only took me about 10 minutes, waiting and all, at the social security office. You can download the necessary forms ahead of time, and it really speeds things up. It actually took me longer to find my birth certificate!

Lucky you. My local office is the epitome of bureaucratic headaches . There were 5 people in front of me and I waited an hour simply to get my card replaced (with all pre-printed forms in hand).

But the point I was trying to make is that you wouldn't have to change the card at all if you didn't change your name, therefore eliminating a need to go to the Social Security Office at all.

 

[Chinorean]

Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that you look like less of a caveman because your wife doesn't blindly maintain a tradition that is institutionalized in every aspect of our culture.

Fixed.

 

[McGillGrad]

Fixed.

The only thing that is "fixed" is him, b/c he has been castrated.

 

[Luxian]

The only thing that is "fixed" is him, b/c he has been castrated.

Hmm. You certainly have some funny ways of judging what makes a man. Personally, I judge men on their behavior, their intelligence, their integrity, their judgement, their strengths -- not so much on whether some lady they like bothered to show up at the social security office a few days after they got married.

Guess I'm just old-fashioned that way.

 

[McGillGrad]

Hmm. You certainly have some funny ways of judging what makes a man. Personally, I judge men on their behavior, their intelligence, their integrity, their judgement, their strengths -- not so much on whether some lady they like bothered to show up at the social security office a few days after they got married.

Guess I'm just old-fashioned that way.

Your point of view is irrelevant for many reasons, including your sex, your support of keeping your last name and your idealistic notions that do not jive with the real world.

If you were a man, who was objective about the issue then your opinion would be valid.

 

[pseudoknot]

If you were a man, who agreed with me, then your opinion would be valid.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Chinorean]

Your point of view is irrelevant for many reasons, including your sex, your support of keeping your last name and your idealistic notions that do not jive with my pea-sized dinosaur brain.

Gosh stop with the typos.

 

[McGillGrad]

Just like a woman with no self-esteem, always trying to fix things in others when she really wishes she could fix what's ailing her deep inside.