Kingman Osteopathic Internship...warnings.

[thenewguy2222]

I have a friend who tried to transfer. That was unsuccessful, so they actually reapplied for residency all over again. They were willing, after two years of residency, to restart from scratch because they felt their education was so poor.

They did not get another residency position. They have had at least two job offers that I am aware of, but only at level 4 trauma centers (or unranked). They have been unsuccessful garnering offers of employment at level 1 or 2 trauma centers.

Is sounds like your "friend" is just a lousy resident. Are you sure this is reflective of the program in general?

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[thenewguy2222]

Is this the program in AZ?

If so, while I'm not in the know of DO EM programs, being a DO though, I do know it's a POS program. Word spread like wildfire.... steer clear.

It is easy to say that a program sucks, or a hospital, or a political party, or whatever. I hear patients make stupid generalized statements about things all the time. How about something specific and substantial, cause I heard once that there was this program in this one place that was really bad for one reason or another but don't take my word for it.

 

[ShyRem]

Is sounds like your "friend" is just a lousy resident. Are you sure this is reflective of the program in general?

Unless you are a current resident in the program, I would be careful about saying another resident sucked just because they wanted out and because they perceived their residency was not up to par. My friend has an informed opinion, an experienced opinion, and nowhere in there was anything about my friend's qualifications as a resident. My friend has never been on probation, and has progressed through the residency well.

newguy, sounds like you are gung-ho about Kingman. By all means, apply there and I hope you get in, but in your future endeavors as a resident and physician I would be wary of attacking others and name-calling. Such things can get you in some significant hot water.

I wish you all the best.

 

[LeemerDO]

Wow, I never expected this thread to be resurrected again. I'll refrain from any direct comment about Kingman at this time and allow others to chime in since apparently my experience along with those who also were present for the abuse that started this thread are all considered "old news." I would just advise those posters to realize that there is a reason for the animosity towards this program and that the integrity of said testimony is only as valued as what the reader deems it is worth. We post warnings for you to heed, but if you are compelled to call BS on us and still move forward, then no one is stopping you. I have no place to speak of how a program is four years later. I can have a pretty good idea on how it is if the same powers that be are still present, but each year is a different combination of residents who may or may not have better relations with their GME directors. I can positively tell you that I did not...and it's obvious.

Looking back, I consider what has all happened now a necessary step to endure in the grand scheme of things that have allowed myself to deviate from my intended path and set myself up for the career opportunities that I now have today. That old saying of "when one door closes, another opens" holds very true. I'm a lot happier and more comfortable in my current situation than I have been in the years since I left that place. It was rocky at first, but all things considered, it was for the best. This reflection of course by no means excuse the incorrigible behavior that was incurred.

So good luck to everyone who decides to go there.

As always, Caveat Emptor.

 

[thenewguy2222]

so, for all of you out there that may be confused as to why we are supposed to hate Kingman, lets recap

4 years ago LeemerDO applies for EM programs and doesn't get in. anywhere. so he takes an intern year at Kingman hoping to get a spot the next year. it must not have been too bad of a program in his mind at that point since that is were he gambled on making his dreams come true. but he can't get along with the internship director. word gets around and he isn't accepted. presumably he applied elsewhere, but he doesn't get a spot in EM anywhere else, either. again. so,now he is angry and bad mouths the program and doesn't want any body else to apply there.

maybe instead of feeling sorry for LeemerDO we should applaud Kingman EM for having enough sense to stay away from an applicant nobody else wanted either

ShyRem has a friend at Kingman. friend liked the program enough to rank it and matched there. but, after two years she doesn't feel like she is getting the education she expected. of course this is 100% the programs fault. she tries to change programs but amazingly, nobody else wants her either. somehow this is also the program's fault.

it sounds like Kingman EM should have stuck to there earlier policy of avoiding applicants like LeemerDO insted of giving Shyrem's friend a chance

And lastly Doctor4Life1769 heard from some program director somewhere that it is a POS program

Who in there right mind would not consider a program based on this garbage? It is nothing more then 3rd hand hearsay and whining. Anybody could say it about any program

I certainly hope this isn't the type of quality information you guys are basing clinical decisions from

 

[smq123]

Keep this thread to a discussion on the pros and cons of this particular program. If it continues turning into attacks on individual posters, the thread will be closed.

 

[LeemerDO]

so, for all of you out there that may be confused as to why we are supposed to hate Kingman, lets recap

4 years ago LeemerDO applies for EM programs and doesn't get in. anywhere. so he takes an intern year at Kingman hoping to get a spot the next year. it must not have been too bad of a program in his mind at that point since that is were he gambled on making his dreams come true. but he can't get along with the internship director. word gets around and he isn't accepted. presumably he applied elsewhere, but he doesn't get a spot in EM anywhere else, either. again. so,now he is angry and bad mouths the program and doesn't want any body else to apply there.

maybe instead of feeling sorry for LeemerDO we should applaud Kingman EM for having enough sense to stay away from an applicant nobody else wanted either

ShyRem has a friend at Kingman. friend liked the program enough to rank it and matched there. but, after two years she doesn't feel like she is getting the education she expected. of course this is 100% the programs fault. she tries to change programs but amazingly, nobody else wants her either. somehow this is also the program's fault.

it sounds like Kingman EM should have stuck to there earlier policy of avoiding applicants like LeemerDO insted of giving Shyrem's friend a chance

And lastly Doctor4Life1769 heard from some program director somewhere that it is a POS program

Who in there right mind would not consider a program based on this garbage? It is nothing more then 3rd hand hearsay and whining. Anybody could say it about any program

I certainly hope this isn't the type of quality information you guys are basing clinical decisions from

Hm...sounds like you're starting there in a few days, huh? You're quite the booster for them. I wouldn't see any other reason why, especially if you've never been there nor worked there. Or are you trolling? If you are, just say so.

Your naive and erroneous statements are to say the least, laughable. Better in mind, this is not my thread. I did not begin it, but it is perpetuated as long as it holds interest to people such as yourself.

So if you are going there, then enjoy your time in Kingman and I truly hope you make the best of it. Some of the greatest friends I have ever met were while I was in Kingman. Granted, we all hated the program in kind, but we also found other areas of common ground.

One of these days, you too will eventually come to terms with certain changes that occur in your life that when you look back, you still regret that they had to happen, and in some dark, sick, and twisted logic, kind of happy that they did.

In the mean time, on behalf of the former interns who suffered there and left for greener pastures, or otherwise are no longer there in a matter of days whose experience there you insist on mocking, well...stick it. We really don't care anymore.

 

[LeemerDO]

Keep this thread to a discussion on the pros and cons of this particular program. If it continues turning into attacks on individual posters, the thread will be closed.

May I suggest an alternative and just ban thenewguy2222 just like RaDOactive was earlier in the thread? It seems like he was created just for this thread alone. Don't see too many other posts elsewhere.

 

[thenewguy2222]

Keep this thread to a discussion on the pros and cons of this particular program. If it continues turning into attacks on individual posters, the thread will be closed.

This is exactly what I find so frustrating about this thread. Other than the comments by Bandito1212 there is almost no objective information about the em program in kingman. Instead we have a lot of unfair or inaccurate information by posters who really know nothing about the program or have a vendetta because there feelings were hurt.

for those of us who are approaching the end of med school and trying to make informed decisions about residencies that type of stuff is not helpful. i think it is in very poor taste and irresponsible

no, i'm not a resident at Kingman. I haven't even rotated there. but I am from the Phoenix area, and was treated there as a patient after getting hurt at the Grand canyon. I was treated by a resident there. I am a med student in CA. I know alumni from this program, one of which works at a level 1 in phoenix and i think very highly of him

I don't know LeemerDO and for all i know you may be a good doc in whatever else you ended up doing, but i take issue with you attacking a program in a public forum simply out of spite. i think you want people to believe you were a resident there and that leaving was your choice and that the program is a bad program simply because it didn't take you and i don't believe it

Shyrem - don't you think it is at least possible, however remotely, that your friends lack of success or happiness (or whatever) may not be entirely the program's fault? don't you think it is possible she may have some responsibility for that as well?

i have not attacked the schools you went to, the residencies you are in or you personally-i just think the program deserves a fair assesment based on objective data

 

[dragonfly99]

I don't know dude...any time multiple interns in a year leave/hate some place, there is usually a problem that isn't just with the intern(s) or residents. But 4 years is a fairly long time in residency-land. Maybe the GME folks have cleaned up their act.

By the way, being treated as a patient somewhere is a lot different than being a trainee somewhere. There are hospitals where I'd like to go as a patient but where I didn't/wouldn't want to train.

 

[LeemerDO]

This is exactly what I find so frustrating about this thread. Other than the comments by Bandito1212 there is almost no objective information about the em program in kingman. Instead we have a lot of unfair or inaccurate information by posters who really know nothing about the program or have a vendetta because there feelings were hurt.

for those of us who are approaching the end of med school and trying to make informed decisions about residencies that type of stuff is not helpful. i think it is in very poor taste and irresponsible

no, i'm not a resident at Kingman. I haven't even rotated there. but I am from the Phoenix area, and was treated there as a patient after getting hurt at the Grand canyon. I was treated by a resident there. I am a med student in CA. I know alumni from this program, one of which works at a level 1 in phoenix and i think very highly of him

I don't know LeemerDO and for all i know you may be a good doc in whatever else you ended up doing, but i take issue with you attacking a program in a public forum simply out of spite. i think you want people to believe you were a resident there and that leaving was your choice and that the program is a bad program simply because it didn't take you and i don't believe it

Shyrem - don't you think it is at least possible, however remotely, that your friends lack of success or happiness (or whatever) may not be entirely the program's fault? don't you think it is possible she may have some responsibility for that as well?

i have not attacked the schools you went to, the residencies you are in or you personally-i just think the program deserves a fair assesment based on objective data

So you want objective data on a program...yet you come to a thread titled "Kingman Osteopathic Internship Warnings." Sorry to disappoint you, but you will find no objective data here. If you want that, go to the AOA website. I'm sure they have perfectly polished and buffed "data" for you to appreciate. This is a forum thread with (surprise!) an opposing viewpoint.

You acknowledge that you have never been a resident at Kingman, nor have you even rotated there as a student, that your only connection to there is that you were treated there as a patient (emphasize AS A PATIENT). However on the same token, you wish to dismiss and castigate those who have actually worked there as residents, or know personal friends who have.

You say you know alumni from Kingman and hold them in high regard which is fine. I would never say they were any less of a doctor because they went there. However along the same token you despise and marginalize what you call "third hand hearsay."

And yes, I was a resident there (intern/resident...semantics). I don't have to "think" that I was and I certainly have the certificate to prove it, and unless you were actually there when it happened, how would you know definitively that I left of my own regard versus them not taking me? Awfully presumptuous of you.

So again, having not worked there, nor rotated there, yet were only there...as a patient, and know others who have been there as a resident (clear definition of the hearsay that you want to avoid), and in the pursuit of seeking objective data...here on a forum thread, I now ask you, what basis do you make your argument that Kingman is any better a program?

Just engaging in a little Socratic dialectic here.

 

[thenewguy2222]

So you want objective data on a program...yet you come to a thread titled "Kingman Osteopathic Internship Warnings." Sorry to disappoint you, but you will find no objective data here."

you're absolutely right. Lets start a thread about kinman emergency medicine and close this one since it is about an internship program which evidently hasn't existed for years

"You acknowledge that you have never been a resident at Kingman, nor have you even rotated there as a student, that your only connection to there is that you were treated there as a patient (emphasize AS A PATIENT). However on the same token, you wish to dismiss and castigate those who have actually worked there as residents..."

"You say you know alumni from Kingman and hold them in high regard which is fine. I would never say they were any less of a doctor because they went there. However along the same token you despise and marginalize what you call "third hand hearsay."

And yes, I was a resident there (intern/resident...semantics)."

it is not semantics and it is important. once again you have deliberately misrepresented the facts. while it is common in many programs to refer to anyone that is a first year as an intern and a resident afterwards, that is not the case here. it is clear you were a "traditional rotating intern" not a resident, and not affiliated with any residency. do you also consider yourself to have pretty much been a derm resident? fp? surgery? am i pretty much a vet or optomotrist because my school offers those programs and i associate with those people? i went to space camp as a kid, does that mean i'm pretty much an astronaut?

"I don't have to "think" that I was and I certainly have the certificate to prove it"

perfect. block out your name and post the cert so we can see if it says rotating intern or emergency medicine residency

"unless you were actually there when it happened, how would you know definitively that I left of my own regard versus them not taking me? Awfully presumptuous of you"

it is not presumptuous, it is clear from the thread. and it does matter. ask any employer if it matters to them whether or not an applicant quit their previous job or was fired

"So again, having not worked there, nor rotated there, yet were only there...as a patient, and know others who have been there as a resident (clear definition of the hearsay that you want to avoid), and in the pursuit of seeking objective data...here on a forum thread, I now ask you, what basis do you make your argument that Kingman is any better a program?"

i'm not saying it is better. what i am saying is that you have trashed a program in a public forum and your motivation for doing so should be made clear so we can make a informed decision about the merit of your accusations

 

[thenewguy2222]

I don't know dude...any time multiple interns in a year leave/hate some place, there is usually a problem that isn't just with the intern(s) or residents. But 4 years is a fairly long time in residency-land. Maybe the GME folks have cleaned up their act.

By the way, being treated as a patient somewhere is a lot different than being a trainee somewhere. There are hospitals where I'd like to go as a patient but where I didn't/wouldn't want to train.

you are probably right. i'll let it go and move on.

 

[LeemerDO]

i'm not saying it is better. what i am saying is that you have trashed a program in a public forum and your motivation for doing so should be made clear so we can make a informed decision about the merit of your accusations

It's a public forum, one that I found intriguing when it was first created as it hit close to home. And because it is a public forum, I am entitled to say what I feel needs to be said. Whether or not it's read, or if someone agrees with it or not is up to the reader alone. You could have easily ignored it and dismiss it as BS, but instead, you insist on acting like a troll, creating an account on sdn, specifically for this thread (so far that I have seen), directly berating other users in the process just because they do not agree with you.

And again, this was four years ago (3.5 if you really want to be specific). I have no clue at this point whether or not it has changed for better or for worse, if the current residents there are happy or sad, whether the GME leadership changed structurally and/or behaviorally, or if the same abuses still occur from the same people there.
I would hope positive changes occurred there in the interim, but frankly, I don't care. As of today, there is absolutely no one there that I know in that residency. It really doesn't matter to me now. This thread will always be here. A new "generation" can chime in if they want to. What they don't need is a self appointed, self aggrandizing hall monitor who thinks he knows what's going on.

I hope you keep your promise and move on. I will do the same.

Word of advice- It's not a wise thing to insult moderators or their friends as your opening debut to SDN. Your time would be better spent making friends than adversaries in the beginning.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Learningstill]

This hospital has essentially been the only business in town. They have for right now an absolute monopoly in regards to healthcare needs of the community. With it comes a sense of arrogance and a "don't f u ck with me attitude!" Especially since it's been there for quite some time, it gradually settles into this "Old boy's club" way of operating a hospital.
That will soon change. They have a new hospital opening up across town, Hualapai Mountain Medical Center generally of equal distance for accepting emergencies. I truly hope it bites a big fat chunk into their bottom line. I also hope that a good fraction of their staff leaves for the new hospital as well. Hell, I heard they already issued blanket threats that if any one does leave for the new hospital, then don't bother coming back to KRMC. Now if you're already pissed at your current employer and looking to change anyways, what's that gonna do to stop you from leaving anyways?

This hospital is in need of some serious reform from the top down, but that's most likely not going to happen anytime soon, so therefore, I hope this other hospital makes their lives a living hell and exacerbates their failure. Then hopefully, they can hit the reset button, hire better management, and kick the old regime $hit bags to the curb.

I still wish the best for my friends who are still there, and that they escape the holds of that place very soon.

KRMC has now bought Hualapai Mnt Med Ctr. It is building wise done... but it has never opened... Locally, we were told it would open Jan 2014, but that time has went by without anything being done.

 

[rosis]

anyone have any recent thoughts on the FM program here? would be gladly appreciated!