KCUMB Class of 2018

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chizledfrmstone said:
Medical school will always find a way to fill up your day.

When you're on 3rd year IM you might be expected to be in the hospital for 12 hours and then study.
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Yah, I guess in either case medical school is always awful.
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Drrrrrr. Celty said:
Yah, I guess in either case medical school is always awful.
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Eh, Third year is very time consuming, but I'm loving it so far. It's the first time I've actually felt like I was really helping treat patients. Some days are rough, but I'll take the worst day of third year over any day of second year by far. And yes, I've had a few 14 hour days, they're still better than Robbins and Boards.
 
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Stagg737 said:
Eh, Third year is very time consuming, but I'm loving it so far. It's the first time I've actually felt like I was really helping treat patients. Some days are rough, but I'll take the worst day of third year over any day of second year by far. And yes, I've had a few 14 hour days, they're still better than Robbins and Boards.
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I imagine my feet will hurt and my brain will probably be a daze after 8 hours lol.
 
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Stagg737 said:
Eh, Third year is very time consuming, but I'm loving it so far. It's the first time I've actually felt like I was really helping treat patients. Some days are rough, but I'll take the worst day of third year over any day of second year by far. And yes, I've had a few 14 hour days, they're still better than Robbins and Boards.
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This

15.5 hour day in OB. SO MUCH Better than 1st or 2nd year. I didn't even care I had to be back at the hospital at 6am and it was 1am when I left.


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Eremba said:
This

15.5 hour day in OB. SO MUCH Better than 1st or 2nd year. I didn't even care I had to be back at the hospital at 6am and it was 1am when I left.


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To each his own. That sounds awful
 
Stagg737 said:
Sounds pretty bad, but still better than reading a chapter of Robbins. Plus if you hate a rotation it ends in a few weeks. Robbins is like a bad rash that won't go away and comes back every 2-3 weeks.
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Maybe I'm a geek but I'd take the Robbins chapter over dat. Probably a good thing I got a path elective scheduled ha.
 
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WillieTrill said:
Maybe I'm a geek but I'd take the Robbins chapter over dat. Probably a good thing I got a path elective scheduled ha.
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How do you establish a schedule? Electives are hosted at your rotation site or away?
 
WillieTrill said:
To each his own. That sounds awful
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Didn't say it was awesome....just better than the classroom will ever be. Actually being with patients doing things is much more of a satisfying day. :)


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WillieTrill said:
Maybe I'm a geek but I'd take the Robbins chapter over dat. Probably a good thing I got a path elective scheduled ha.
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Don't get me wrong, I actually liked reading a lot of Robbins too. I'm just glad I don't have to spend hours trying to figure out which genes go with which disease and remembering molecular minutiae anymore. I'd much rather spend my time seeing patients and learning clinically relevant stuff than which arm of which chromosome is mutated in some disease the pathologist has seen twice in their career.
 
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Anyone got any reviews or views on the Warren Ohio, Richmond Indiana, and the Joplin sites?
 
DoctorDoomsday said:
Could someone explain why you want to be with residents?
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Typically being with residents is seen as better because you get a better feeling of what residency will be like and understand the daily flow of what you're supposed to be doing which includes things like how to present patients to groups and attendings, how to work-up a patient, how to properly write notes, as well as the general administrative procedures. Basically, it makes the learning curve smaller when you start residency and you'll be able to jump right into things faster and not be as much of a pain to the attendings and other residents when you start.

Personally, I think that's a little oversimplified and there are certainly advantages to being with a preceptor. For example, if you don't want to work in a hospital, especially an academic one, or want to having a private practice in a field like FM, then you're better off getting one on one/more personalized interactions with a preceptor. I'm with preceptors who rotated at hospitals with residents, all of them said they felt we were better off with preceptors and that the learning curve isn't an issue. I'd guess that some rotations, like IM, you'd definitely want to be with residents and it would be a disadvantage to your education not to rotate with residents.

Keep in mind, this is all just stuff I've heard from upperclassmen, residents, and physicians, so take it for what it's worth. I'm glad I'm with preceptors for third year, as I feel like the ones I've had do a far better job preparing me for shelves than rotating with residents who look at me as more of a hassle in their lives than someone to help. However, I'm definitely planning on doing most of my electives and especially my audition rotations at programs with residents so I don't miss out on anything and know what to expect in residency.
 
Biggest thing is the fact that residency programs have a formalized curriculum with competencies for teaching within the program through didactics, noon report, morning conference or grand rounds. Additionally, when third/fourth years are within that program, residents will also have a duty to teach. Yes, you will probably lose some direct attention by having a preceptor but on the flip side you can gain letters from program directors or department chairs as supposed to just a preceptor which in the area of academics, is probably seen with higher respect.

From what I've heard as well is that there's a little more lax with scheduling in a preceptor based clerkship whereas when you follow a residency team your schedule is essentially the same as a house officer.


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Stagg737 said:
Typically being with residents is seen as better because you get a better feeling of what residency will be like and understand the daily flow of what you're supposed to be doing which includes things like how to present patients to groups and attendings, how to work-up a patient, how to properly write notes, as well as the general administrative procedures. Basically, it makes the learning curve smaller when you start residency and you'll be able to jump right into things faster and not be as much of a pain to the attendings and other residents when you start.

Personally, I think that's a little oversimplified and there are certainly advantages to being with a preceptor. For example, if you don't want to work in a hospital, especially an academic one, or want to having a private practice in a field like FM, then you're better off getting one on one/more personalized interactions with a preceptor. I'm with preceptors who rotated at hospitals with residents, all of them said they felt we were better off with preceptors and that the learning curve isn't an issue. I'd guess that some rotations, like IM, you'd definitely want to be with residents and it would be a disadvantage to your education not to rotate with residents.

Keep in mind, this is all just stuff I've heard from upperclassmen, residents, and physicians, so take it for what it's worth. I'm glad I'm with preceptors for third year, as I feel like the ones I've had do a far better job preparing me for shelves than rotating with residents who look at me as more of a hassle in their lives than someone to help. However, I'm definitely planning on doing most of my electives and especially my audition rotations at programs with residents so I don't miss out on anything and know what to expect in residency.
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Thanks! I've been with both preceptors and residents and by far had the better experience with just a preceptor. You get to do more and I fet like I learned so much more. With residents I felt like I barely had one on one time with the attending. And that I was redundant. I felt like the residents did everything that I got to do with just a preceptor. And I was in the way more. Lol

It's still early days and I've quite a few rotations left. Just curious about others experiences.
 
AlteredScale said:
Biggest thing is the fact that residency programs have a formalized curriculum with competencies for teaching within the program through didactics, noon report, morning conference or grand rounds. Additionally, when third/fourth years are within that program, residents will also have a duty to teach. Yes, you will probably lose some direct attention by having a preceptor but on the flip side you can gain letters from program directors or department chairs as supposed to just a preceptor which in the area of academics, is probably seen with higher respect.

From what I've heard as well is that there's a little more lax with scheduling in a preceptor based clerkship whereas when you follow a residency team your schedule is essentially the same as a house officer.
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Adding a few things to this, things will vary from program to program and from preceptor to preceptor. The bolded are things that should happen at residency programs with M3s and M4s there. I think you'd get that at most programs with students rotating there, but friends at MD schools have said that they basically got crapped on and were used as free clerical work on rotations. Residents were malignant and didn't teach them anything, and they just basically shadowed a team and tagged along like pre-meds. Same thing could happen if you got a crappy preceptor though.

The LOR point is something I forgot. Some preceptors will be well known (at least in the geographic region) and their letters will carry a lot of weight. I'm sure there's certain academic programs whose name would carry a lot more weight when it's on an LOR. Unfortunately, none of those locations are core sites for KCU, so to get an LOR from an institution that would actually carry weight you'd have to use an elective rotation for that anyway. Once again, it really depends on where you want to end up and what that specific program values.

DoctorDoomsday said:
Thanks! I've been with both preceptors and residents and by far had the better experience with just a preceptor. You get to do more and I fet like I learned so much more. With residents I felt like I barely had one on one time with the attending. And that I was redundant. I felt like the residents did everything that I got to do with just a preceptor. And I was in the way more. Lol

It's still early days and I've quite a few rotations left. Just curious about others experiences.
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Yea, the bolded is why I'm glad I'm with preceptors for most of 3rd year. The one I'm just finishing with didn't have residents, but he treats us like residents. We did all initial patient histories, wrote progress notes, did rounds with him and presented our patients, had didactics with one of his colleagues twice a week, and basically were treated like interns. Only thing we didn't do was grand rounds or competencies. Plus there were only a few of us, so we still got all of the attending's attention in terms of teaching. It was a pretty ideal rotation and I'm going to miss it a lot. I also like not having to sit on the sideline and feel like I was in the way, that's probably my only real knock against rotating with residents though.
 
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Stagg737 said:
Adding a few things to this, things will vary from program to program and from preceptor to preceptor. The bolded are things that should happen at residency programs with M3s and M4s there. I think you'd get that at most programs with students rotating there, but friends at MD schools have said that they basically got crapped on and were used as free clerical work on rotations. Residents were malignant and didn't teach them anything, and they just basically shadowed a team and tagged along like pre-meds. Same thing could happen if you got a crappy preceptor though.

The LOR point is something I forgot. Some preceptors will be well known (at least in the geographic region) and their letters will carry a lot of weight. I'm sure there's certain academic programs whose name would carry a lot more weight when it's on an LOR. Unfortunately, none of those locations are core sites for KCU, so to get an LOR from an institution that would actually carry weight you'd have to use an elective rotation for that anyway. Once again, it really depends on where you want to end up and what that specific program values.



Yea, the bolded is why I'm glad I'm with preceptors for most of 3rd year. The one I'm just finishing with didn't have residents, but he treats us like residents. We did all initial patient histories, wrote progress notes, did rounds with him and presented our patients, had didactics with one of his colleagues twice a week, and basically were treated like interns. Only thing we didn't do was grand rounds or competencies. Plus there were only a few of us, so we still got all of the attending's attention in terms of teaching. It was a pretty ideal rotation and I'm going to miss it a lot. I also like not having to sit on the sideline and feel like I was in the way, that's probably my only real knock against rotating with residents though.
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I've def heard that from other students where residents are there and it's unfortunate because then not only are you not learning but you are also essentially unable to really understand how a resident team works (and how you should function as an intern) when they push you aside like that.

In terms of the LOR, at the end of the day I think every eventually gathers one because of the open window in fourth year right?


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Do we just continue to feel more and more stupid as time goes by?
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
Do we just continue to feel more and more stupid as time goes by?
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After 2nd year you will meet some exceptionally brilliant physicians that make you feel extremely stupid. You will also meet some that are really dumb and make you value your education.

MD or DO doesn't matter. You decide how good of a doctor you want to be.
 
lemontartes said:
I'm not studying everyday either. Hope I'm not doing something wrong...
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As long as you're passing your shelfs it should be fine. I just feel like I need to at least be doing Qbank Qs each day to keep up...
 
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BigGAC1 said:
Wow... Bold choices. You must be smarter than me.
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Haha. Highly doubt it.

I should say...I don't consider listening to a MedEd video a night studying.

I get pimped basically all day at the hospital. Some days that's plenty of "studying" for me.


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Eremba said:
Haha. Highly doubt it.

I should say...I don't consider listening to a MedEd video a night studying.

I get pimped basically all day at the hospital. Some days that's plenty of "studying" for me.


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Yup, get pimped a bunch, read a few cases from Case Files or do some Q bank questions during downtime each day and I feel pretty good. I don't study every night, but just make it a goal to get through whatever resource book I'm using twice if possible (obviously won't be the case for IM, but 1400 questions makes that unnecessary imo). I also learn much better when I'm actually doing something instead of just reading about it, so things are coming a lot easier than they did last year.
 
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Eremba said:
Haha. Highly doubt it.

I should say...I don't consider listening to a MedEd video a night studying.

I get pimped basically all day at the hospital. Some days that's plenty of "studying" for me.


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Pimped huh? Is it pretty bad?


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has anyone thought about their 4th year schedule at all...?
 
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I'm in Ohio. Can PM I don't check this area much.
 
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anyone take peds? 2 weeks enough to honor this exam? Was pretty lazy at the start and then got sick :(
 
apr27 said:
anyone take peds? 2 weeks enough to honor this exam? Was pretty lazy at the start and then got sick :(
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It was my 1st shelf, looking back I'd say I studied an average amount. Missed honors by 1 question... Still a little bitter about it. Its probly doable in 2 wks if you bust it on UW/Kaplan/OME.
 
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How many days did you guys was needed to study OMM for the COMLEX?
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
How many days did you guys was needed to study OMM for the COMLEX?
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Most people I talked to studied for USMLE and took it, then took COMLEX a week later and used that week to study OMM and review. If you're strictly dedicating days to OMM, I don't think you need more than 3 or 4. Know your viscerosomatics, Chapman's points (yes, Chapman's points), and then have a basic understanding of the various techniques (which are active vs. passive, what each technique is supposed to do, etc.).
 
Stagg737 said:
Most people I talked to studied for USMLE and took it, then took COMLEX a week later and used that week to study OMM and review. If you're strictly dedicating days to OMM, I don't think you need more than 3 or 4. Know your viscerosomatics, Chapman's points (yes, Chapman's points), and then have a basic understanding of the various techniques (which are active vs. passive, what each technique is supposed to do, etc.).
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How many questions asked things like technique X for this body part required activation of X muscle tho?
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
How many questions asked things like technique X for this body part required activation of X muscle tho?
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Not a ton, but I did have 3 or 4 like that (out of 400). Most of mine were fairly specific questions on spinal treatments or "what is the mechanism of the treatment being described" or "which of the following is true about the treatment described?". There was a fair amount of OMM on COMLEX, so you definitely shouldn't punt it.
 
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Stagg737 said:
Not a ton, but I did have 3 or 4 like that (out of 400). Most of mine were fairly specific questions on spinal treatments or "what is the mechanism of the treatment being described" or "which of the following is true about the treatment described?". There was a fair amount of OMM on COMLEX, so you definitely shouldn't punt it.
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Was the green book enough for this?
 
Stagg737 said:
Most people I talked to studied for USMLE and took it, then took COMLEX a week later and used that week to study OMM and review. If you're strictly dedicating days to OMM, I don't think you need more than 3 or 4. Know your viscerosomatics, Chapman's points (yes, Chapman's points), and then have a basic understanding of the various techniques (which are active vs. passive, what each technique is supposed to do, etc.).
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can't stress viscerosomatics enough. I think that was like >50% of my OMM questions.
 
HotLunch96 said:
can't stress viscerosomatics enough. I think that was like >50% of my OMM questions.
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What do you think of the pharm on the boards? I'm pretty terrible at pharm and have almost entirely forgotten 90% of it by now.
 
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