is metrohealth medical center (at case western reserve) malignant?

[Doctor4Life1769]

Case this year no longer had AOA-affiliations with their IM program. In years past, I noticed there were always ~ 5-6 slots dedicated to the DO match, not this year. Seems like the new Chair abolished all that. Totally anti-DO, I don't know much about anti-FMG...

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[Dr Shocker]

Dr. Shocker
while I appreciate your sarcasm regarding my being stellar (I am in fact, stellar ) but I was not referring to myself. Also forgive the all caps, I was just trying to underscore that the 6 residents who applied to cardiology were in fact great, many of them I'm sure you interacted with personally and your careless dismissal of them (when you thought one of them was me) is merely a showcase of how the program treats it's own.

Once again, I am not a member of the IM residency at Metro, however I know many who are and am myself a Metro resident (in a different program, but who had to rotate in IM fairly extensively as a resident).
Take what you hear from me with a grain of salt, I have no grudge to settle with the program, I was personally treated quite well, and like I stated above there are perfectly great attendings at Metro (unfortunately for Dr. Shocker, I don't think any are in Cardiology, with the exception of one EP and one Interventionalist, the rest are pretty much a pain to deal with)

I suppose in my previous posts I left out that their pulm/cc department is actually quite STELLAR as well, with some big names and great phyisicans, but from what I understand that fellowship is beginning to become one of the "top tier" fellowships, however the pulm attendings are actually quite supportive and nurturing.

That the people who applied to cardiology all did the right things (research, letters, strong residents etc.) and not one of them couldn't land a fellowship spots (particularly at their home program) says something...

I don;t know how it was when you applied (maybe it was a weaker applicant year) but that's not how it is now

Jasper, I hope you know more about physical therapy, eye dentistry, or whatever you're doing now than you do about evaluating talent. I will not comment on the cardiology match from last year aside from saying that I think there are a few who would/will make good cardiologists should they choose to pursue it further. But my opinion matters not...

My motivation for commenting here is to help provide a more realistic portrayal of the IM and Cards programs so that potential applicants can make an informed decision when they construct a rank list. Here are the facts about Cardiology at Metro:

- 7 of the current 11 general cardiology fellows at Metro are from within the IM program. Many of the faculty trained here, as well. How is that not "taking care of our own?"

- Metro Cardiology faculty come from/have trained at: Harvard, Columbia, WashU, Brown, OSU, Michigan, MCV, Vanderbilt, Hopkins, MGH, Case, Duke, Brigham, to name a few.

- For super-fellowships, Metro Cardiology fellows have gone to/will go to: Duke, CCF, MGH, UCSD, and St. Vincent (Indy), Stanford.

- 100% board passing rate.

- Numerous faculty on editorial boards of major cardiology journals, including 3 editors of the leading EP journal, Heart Rhythm.

- Past AHA president, Ohio ACC Governor, multiple HRS Young Investigator Award winners/nominees, 1st prize winners at last 3 Ohio ACC research competitions, perennial winners at Metro research day, and numerous fellow and faculty publications in leading cardiology journals.

- And to top it all off, the Cardiology division at Metro is probably about the least malignant you'll find anywhere.


How 'bout them apples?

 

[TieFetish]

Hello Dr Shocker! Make your own thread about how much you want to make love to metro cardiology, don't hijack this one. But I guess it's a sign how you cannot defend the gross shortcomings of the medicine department anymore so instead you focus on cardiology.

 

[Dr Shocker]

Hello Dr Shocker! Make your own thread about how much you want to make love to metro cardiology, don't hijack this one. But I guess it's a sign how you cannot defend the gross shortcomings of the medicine department anymore so instead you focus on cardiology.

A useless post on multiple levels that exposes your lack of reading comprehension skills. The "medical student" asked a question about whether or not the IM program is malignant. Many of us feel strongly that it is our responsibility to get the truth out there, which is that Metro is far from malignant. In feeble attempts to blame the IM program for their own shortcomings, a few people have suggested that last year's cards match somehow supports this argument. I'm providing the other side of the argument (ie the real story from the grownups in the room) which is that, while it may not be a perfect training program, it's a damn good one and there are MANY more of us (ie 7 current fellows and many others in various specialties) who have happy stories to tell about MetroHealth.

While it may be your "1st Amendment Right" to go on some internet forum and take shots at the PD, assistant PD, etc. that does not make it the right thing to do. On the food chain, I would place you guys somewhere in between the amoeba and a used car salesman. Pathetic.

 

[WSUreds]

Jasper, I hope you know more about physical therapy, eye dentistry, or whatever you're doing now than you do about evaluating talent. I will not comment on the cardiology match from last year aside from saying that I think there are a few who would/will make good cardiologists should they choose to pursue it further. But my opinion matters not...

My motivation for commenting here is to help provide a more realistic portrayal of the IM and Cards programs so that potential applicants can make an informed decision when they construct a rank list. Here are the facts about Cardiology at Metro:

- 7 of the current 11 general cardiology fellows at Metro are from within the IM program. Many of the faculty trained here, as well. How is that not "taking care of our own?"

- Metro Cardiology faculty come from/have trained at: Harvard, Columbia, WashU, Brown, OSU, Michigan, MCV, Vanderbilt, Hopkins, MGH, Case, Duke, Brigham, to name a few.

- For super-fellowships, Metro Cardiology fellows have gone to/will go to: Duke, CCF, MGH, UCSD, and St. Vincent (Indy), Stanford.

- 100% board passing rate.

- Numerous faculty on editorial boards of major cardiology journals, including 3 editors of the leading EP journal, Heart Rhythm.

- Past AHA president, Ohio ACC Governor, multiple HRS Young Investigator Award winners/nominees, 1st prize winners at last 3 Ohio ACC research competitions, perennial winners at Metro research day, and numerous fellow and faculty publications in leading cardiology journals.

- And to top it all off, the Cardiology division at Metro is probably about the least malignant you'll find anywhere.


How 'bout them apples?

So Metro is clearly the best cards fellowship in the state??? Right, ha. It is #3 (ie last) in it's own city.

 

[jasper12]

TieFetish (awesome name btw), in all fairness to Shocker he was providing a counterargument to what I had said previously and is only coming to defend his program, which is perfectly acceptable and respectable. For this thread to actually be of any value to anyone, both views should be heard.

I agree with you Shocker that the ones from last year would make good cardiologists, and from what I understand these same people were very disrespected during their interviews at metro: a la one attending who had his feet up the whole time.

I never said the cards program at metro was malignant (at least no more than other cardiology programs, and they may have taken their own in the past, but that certainly was not the case last year). Nor was I disputing that many of the fellows and attendings are well accomplished. And I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong shocker) that the metro EP program is stronger than either CCF or UH. So don't get your panties in a bunch.
Many of the cardiologists are difficult to deal with except for the 2 I previously mentioned, but I don't think that is unique to metro, just to cardiology

But this should not be a thread about metro cardiology, this should be one about metro IM.

I have also heard that the new chair asked the director of GI to step down, the reason I believe is because the director (who is a wonderful physician and mentor) didn't want to bow to pressure from the chair to admit GI fellows from the chairman's lab at BU, many of whom have spent more time in the lab than on the floors.

Regarding some of the associate PDs, some of what was said was true but there are definitely a couple of associate PDs that are great leaders and really push for change, unfortunately for them, with the current leadership it's like pushing against a lead wall...with spikes

Not sure whether Dr. McFarlane is super resistant to change either, seemed very open to change the few times I went to those kinds of conferences. However he is VERY old fashioned, a great clinician for sure...but does not utilize current diagnostic applications (especially imaging) and is not very up to date about modern procedures (see my VP shunt comment). Also from what I understand his reluctance to call on people applying for fellowship is quite troublesome as many people really expect that kind of phone call.

Bottom line, the leadership was appropriate a while ago, and now needs to be changed, there are 2-3 associate PD who would make terrific PD.

Sincerely,
Jasper MD, Eye Dentistry and PMR: For all your ocular physical therapy needs

 

[Dr Shocker]

So Metro is clearly the best cards fellowship in the state??? Right, ha. It is #3 (ie last) in it's own city.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying, thank you for adding your valuable insight...except that it's #1 in the universe. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[jdh71]

 

[TieFetish]

1. Tie Fetish
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tie Fetish#


A tie fetish is a fetish for seeing people, normally boys, wearing ties. It stems from the often overly casual look many teenage boys have adopted. They don't understand girls like to see them dressed up nice every once and a while. The object in question, accordingly, is not the tie itself, but the fact that the boy is done up nice in the first place. Dress clothes are reeeealy fun to un-dress.
Some girl: "Why do you still go to church? I though you were an atheist."

Figure.10: "I am, but I have a huge tie fetish."
fetish ties school uniform kinky sexy
by Figure.10 May 18, 2009 share this


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tie Fetish

 

[wooster201106]

jdh71, once again, hats off to you for knowing how to throw down the exclamation point on a thread. Nice. BTW, am I hallucinating or have you been changing your avatar back and forth?

Wooster, the furor and detail with which you've replied hints of someone who cares a little too much about this to be a medical student...in fact, I'm seriously questioning whether you're actually one of the residents posing as a student. Here's an easy way to put this to rest: PM me your email address or phone number and I'd be more than happy to chat with you to go over the strengths and weakness of the IM program at Metro.

Furor? Really? That's a bit much don't you think? Personally, I don't think my last post was tinged with anywhere near the emotion that yours have been. I certainly understand why you might be suspicious that I'm one of the disgruntled residents at Metro but you're more off the mark than you could ever know. I'll probably never be able to truly convince you of that so I won't bother trying. Suffice it to say I am not emotionally (or in any other way) vested in the outcome of this at all. Like I said I know little to nothing about Metro. I think what hit a nerve was when one of the posters mentioned that a resident was terminated then offered their spot back and other residents were having their positions threatened as well over apparently trivial matters.

As someone who has been introduced to the world of petty politics in medicine earlier than they would have liked, I can understand why some residents would be miffed that the program was treating their residents that way, if in fact they are. I have learned from my ordeal but I've also become quite obsessed with resident disciplinary matters enough to appreciate how arbitrary the process can be in the hands of a callous individual. A quick stroll around the SDN forums is a great introduction into the world of punitive measures taken against residents. Sometimes, I wish I had never stumbled on SDN because now I know more than I would have ever wanted. I do believe that in the case of most terminated residents the program probably had justification but, for those who were cut down due to their inability to successfully navigate the residency minefield and not their clinical competence or medical knowledge, I have the utmost sympathy. From your posts, I'm guessing you probably cannot relate or have ever put yourself in their shoes.

You still have not addressed those specific claims. How do you explain the program terminating then rehiring the same resident? On the one hand, I want to commend the program for realizing they may have been mistaken and taking a different approach. On the other, I wonder how a program could be so careless to begin with.

I think the biggest weakness is the inability to screen out people who refer to themselves as stellar...in capital letters

That's tantamount to someone saying their biggest weakness is they care too much or work too hard. In other words, you don't truly believe there are weaknesses or wouldn't be willing to admit to them. Either way, it won't serve a program well to have those who turn a blind eye to the real problems they may be facing.

In feeble attempts to blame the IM program for their own shortcomings, a few people have suggested that last year's cards match somehow supports this argument.

Having a failure rate of 100% in a fellowship match in ANY year for a program with an in-house fellowhip in that particular specialty should be of grave concern both to potential residents and the program alike, especially when some of them were apparently AMGs. Placing the blame entirely on the residents to me is just inexcusable. You cannot possibly expect us to buy that there wasn't a single resident good enough at least for the cards fellowship at Metro. If that truly was the case then the program at Metro has to shoulder some of the blame. That's just something I don't understand. I'm sure Metro would celebrate and boast the success of its residents as theirs as well but you think it is acceptable to completely divest themselves of their residents' failures. Their failures are Metro's failures. And 0/6 is a catastrophic failure by any standard. You can play the blame game but it won't be long before you realize how counterproductive that is. Simply put, Metro needs its residents to succeed and the residents need Metro to succeed. They need to find out what went wrong and fix it not chalk it up to a bad batch of residents otherwise I guess we should expect to see similar fellowship match rates in the future.

If you don't get a fellowship you shouldn't be so sour about it. Instead of attacking others on blogs, you should probably take that time to self-reflect.

True. Also true for the program as well.

The sole purpose of this message is to perpetuate the inanity and argumentation of this thread with an air (error) of judgement and superiority (unwarranted).
Let, me (he/she), summarize:
Metro, mean?
no, yes, no, no.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. I'm a fellow(-monster),send me your...(passive-agressive gesture i.e. PAG) :ower trip:: blah blah (oooo I can do it too, You totally just got PAGed! no pun intended)
OMFG First Amendment!
This is soooo sad

And so the melodrama continues (or so I hope) ...

Would you rather us discuss declining Medicare reimbursement, health-care reform, or things that have been rehashed over and over on SDN countless times? I think people overestimate the influence SDN has (or maybe I undestimate it). I still think the greatest influence and impact by far comes from our classmates, colleagues, mentors/advisors, etc. because those are the ones we view as most credible simply because we know them. But, I do believe the forums (and these threads) on SDN serve an important function as a venue to discuss and discover things which you would never know from the staged and scripted interviews, dinners, and program tours. Programs are much more of a mystery to us as students than we are to them. They always have the upper hand whereas we are forced to disclose every last detail before we even come close to their doorstep. They can conveniently and easily hide the skeletons in their closet and you won't realize how bad it smells until you're living there.

The Program Director

-the oldest program director of any residency I know and just as old fashioned, and stubborn as evidenced by his unnatural tie fetish

If this thread has accomplished nothing else, we at least have all learned that the PD has an obsession with ties. So all is not lost.

What is a malignant program? Read above and see if any of that sounds damning...

No. But some of the stuff above that? That does sound malignant. That word gets thrown around a lot and everyone seems to have their own way of defining it. If program politics are allowed to go unchecked as it seems was the case of the resident termination and threats of termination than that to me is an indication that a program has questionable leadership and malignant tendencies. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the facts so I could be completely off base here but none of the defenders have adequately addressed this issue. And I completely agree with jasper12 that for this thread to have any value both sides need to be presented. No one should begrudge those from Metro their success or from posting but keep in mind that programs which can be considered malignant do have happy residents who successfully match into fellowships. That doesn't make them any less malignant. The idea that everyone has to be terminated or fail to obtain a fellowship is flawed. To me, the best measure and barometer of a program's character and leadership is how it treats its worst (whatever that means) residents not its best or most favored.

Finally, to Dr. Shocker I would just like to say that I have no interest in attacking you and I'm sorry if that's the impression that you've gotten. It brings me no pleasure nor am I trying to compensate for some inadequacy or an inferiority complex (that's what my pump is for). This thread could be about any of the dozens of programs out there. I think students out there deserve to know as much about the programs (including the unflattering) as the programs know about the students. Do I think Metro should be singled out? No. It's program is certainly not unique in that regard. I also have no interest in seeing this thread devolve into a tit-for-tat shouting match. And, it doesn't have to if people are willing to stay above the fray. Looking at your posts, do you honestly believe they convey the "class and professionalism" that you yourself talked about? Making derogatory statements about jasper12's specialty doesn't seem very classy or professional to me. Honestly, I felt jasper12 showed more class and professionalism in their posts before and after they became a target of your vitriol. Is that what people can expect if they become residents there? To be denigrated for having opposing views?

And as far as discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the program with me? I appreciate the offer but I'm a MS4 who didn't even apply to Metro and who's already matched and waiting in front of a computer to find out where. And with that I am officially done with this thread. I wish everyone here all the success in this wonderful dystopia we call medicine.

Wooster out.

 

[jdh71]

jdh71, once again, hats off to you for knowing how to throw down the exclamation point on a thread. Nice. BTW, am I hallucinating or have you been changing your avatar back and forth?

I never know when to quit an argument either . . .

I change my avatar when I play werewolf over in the lounge. The stop sign will be back soon enough.

 

[TruthMD]

Did not want to say anything before the results came out.

BUT in general... I don't believe anyone on SDN who's creates a new account and posts here for the first time... either FOR or AGAINST a program. UNLESS they put their real name and info can be verified.

I am sure if someone has lots of time on their hand, they can evaluate all the first time posters to see if the grammar style is identical.

 

[WSUreds]

Despite all the bickering, it is evident that there is a problem at Metro. It is not as if this program was highly regarded prior to these comments either. Most AMG's avoided this program. It is a community program dressed up a university hospital. At best, it is the third program in Cleveland. Let me say that again, Cleveland.

 

[Dr Shocker]

Despite all the bickering, it is evident that there is a problem at Metro. It is not as if this program was highly regarded prior to these comments either. Most AMG's avoided this program. It is a community program dressed up a university hospital. At best, it is the third program in Cleveland. Let me say that again, Cleveland.

Yes, Cleveland. A city that is well known for being a cardiology mecca, and all 3 of the major centers contribute to this. One can make the argument that certain centers like Metro do certain things better than the others and vice versa, but honestly everyone's comfortable in their own skin here and no one seems to be as caught up in this "ranking" of programs as much as you are.

This discussion highlights the limited utility of using online forums to research training programs. You've got angry residents who have their own agendas for posting, as well as GI fellows from other cities with an apparent axe to grind and too much free time commenting so confidently on something that they clearly know very little about. You're way off base and your feedback is about as useful as asking a high school guidance counselor which colleges are best. You're doing med students no service by using the U.S. News & World Health Report to judge programs. If you talk to anyone who knows about IM training, they'll tell you that Metro is a great place to train. Period.

I'm signing off after this, but I want to make one last point that I think is important for students: don't get caught up in all of the polarizing opinions and "rankings" in these types of forums. IM training programs are all pretty much the same with a few subtle differences, expecially with ACGME regulation. Where you train has very little to do with how good of a doctor you are. You get out what you put in. In the words of former Metro pulmonary/critical care attending Dr. Allan Garland, "Garbage in = Garbage out."

 

[Gastromeister]

bump

 

[rokshana]

bump

for the love of God....why?

 

[Gastromeister]

for the love of God....why?

haha - I was wondering if there were any changes to the consensus of metro being malignant

 

[Instatewaiter]

If you think metro is malignant, you have a very skewed view of what malignant is.




... and are a puss,y.

 

[Gastromeister]

If you think metro is malignant, you have a very skewed view of what malignant is.




... and are a puss,y.

I don't think it's malignant, I wouldn't know; never been there so I can't judge
Obviously a lot of people think it is based on this thread, I was curious if they felt the same way now.

*****? seriously? grow up

 

[Instatewaiter]

I don't think it's malignant, I wouldn't know; never been there so I can't judge
Obviously a lot of people think it is based on this thread, I was curious if they felt the same way now.

*****? seriously? grow up

That wasn't directed at you. It was a general statement. Calm down.

But perhaps that part about stop being a puss.y could be useful advice, especially if you are about to start internship.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Users are reminded that they are expected to be civil and professional in their discussions.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Flyover state. Who cares if its malignant? And, trust me, for all you Cleveland Clinic people who always want to tell me how things were done there...I really don't care.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Flyover state. Who cares if its malignant? And, trust me, for all you Cleveland Clinic people who always want to tell me how things were done there...I really don't care.

Don't be a d-bag. Not all of us want to live on the coasts (been there, done that, never again). Cleveland is actually quite nice in a lot of ways.

 

[thehundredthone]

Who cares if its malignant?

The person who asked, quite likely.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Don't be a d-bag. Not all of us want to live on the coasts (been there, done that, never again). Cleveland is actually quite nice in a lot of ways.

Cleveland is very nice. Just look at the tourism videos:

 

[deleted839398]

Any new impressions of the program?

 

[tantacles]

Any new impressions of the program?

It's nowhere near as good as university hospitals. :-D


Large dogs

 

[ColdTurkiye]

It's not malignant, no.

In fact it is one of the better university-affiliated community programs in the country. A lot of people dislike Cleveland but it is okay in terms of a place to live. I won't be apply there myself because I'm choosing to focus on New York and DC going for a good mix of low-tier university programs and university-affiliated community programs with good tract record for fellowship.

If you're considering cities east of Chicago and in the north there are only a handful of places that are better to live.

New York, Boston (all of their programs are super competitive), Pittsburgh, DC, Philadelphia, maybe Baltimore and maybe Providence.

I'd take Cleveland over anywhere in upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, Western Mass, Connecticut, Indiana or Michigan. If you have an open mind about where you're willing to live and work Cleveland/Metrohealth isn't a horrible option despite all the hate you might read on SDN.

Other good university-affiliated community programs include:
1. AECOM Jacobi, Bronx
2. Mount Sinai St Luke's-Roosevelt, Manhattan
3. NewYork Presbyterian Brooklyn Methodist
4. Maimonides, Brooklyn
5. Georgetown Washington Hospital Center, DC
6. Pennsylvania Hospital, Philadelphia
7. Albert Einstein, Philadelphia
8. Allegheny Health, Pittsburgh
*most of these programs have a lot of IMGs because most AMGs wouldn't consider applying since they're not the main university hospitals*

 

[deleted839398]

Thank you for taking the time to share your views guys! I am actually waiting for a long time to hear some impressions about the program.

 

[Ermundo]

Any new input on this program? Thank you.

 

[ortnakas]

Interviewed there. It’s the catchment hospital for the area so a lot of Medicaid/uninsured patients and always very busy, but the residents seems happy and the program didn’t come off as malignant.