Is anyone actually satisfied?

[treytrey]

Is anyone actually satisfied with being an optometrist? Do you not feel as though your potential is much greater?

Let's be honest here, optometry is hardly a respected profession anymore, MD's and the general public don't even acknowledge us as doctors, and to be honest, considering what most (95%) of optometrists do for a living (routine brainless eye exams and refractions, both of which scream mediocrity), from an objective point of view I wouldn't consider us as docs either.

Most optometrists nowadays string together 2-3 part time jobs for 350-400 per diem, no benefits, no job security. The ones that get lucky and get full time jobs work for very meager pay, 70-80k a year but hey at least they get benefits. Pharmacists I know get paid 120k+. Why? Because they have backbones and pharmacists are able to stand up for themselves, optometrists are happy to bend over and be reduced to refraction monkeys for pennies.

Why is this? Is it because a large percentage of optometrists are females who are happy working part time for substantially lower pay and thus screwing over the males in the profession and overall devaluing the worth of our skills? Certainly seems that way, I have 2 colleagues that echo the same sentiment.

And no, I don't want KHE or anyone else to comment and say how great optometry is or has been for them, they're relics of the past, products of a different time when the markets were much better, fools living in a disillusioned state where they cannot acknowledge that they're the 1% when it comes to the field. Nowadays graduates cannot possibly open up their own clinic, not even within 10 years, it's simply impossible.

PS. I'm actually a great teacher, anyone know the process of applying to become a lecturer at an optometry uni?

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[Psalm37]

Is anyone actually satisfied with being an optometrist? Do you not feel as though your potential is much greater?

Let's be honest here, optometry is hardly a respected profession anymore, MD's and the general public don't even acknowledge us as doctors, and to be honest, considering what most (95%) of optometrists do for a living (routine brainless eye exams and refractions, both of which scream mediocrity), from an objective point of view I wouldn't consider us as docs either.

Most optometrists nowadays string together 2-3 part time jobs for 350-400 per diem, no benefits, no job security. The ones that get lucky and get full time jobs work for very meager pay, 70-80k a year but hey at least they get benefits. Pharmacists I know get paid 120k+. Why? Because they have backbones and pharmacists are able to stand up for themselves, optometrists are happy to bend over and be reduced to refraction monkeys for pennies.

Why is this? Is it because a large percentage of optometrists are females who are happy working part time for substantially lower pay and thus screwing over the males in the profession and overall devaluing the worth of our skills? Certainly seems that way, I have 2 colleagues that echo the same sentiment.

And no, I don't want KHE or anyone else to comment and say how great optometry is or has been for them, they're relics of the past, products of a different time when the markets were much better, fools living in a disillusioned state where they cannot acknowledge that they're the 1% when it comes to the field. Nowadays graduates cannot possibly open up their own clinic, not even within 10 years, it's simply impossible.

PS. I'm actually a great teacher, anyone know the process of applying to become a lecturer at an optometry uni?

My husband just graduated as an optometrist last year and he moved from Mississippi (he would only make 40,000 a year if he stayed working for someone) to Virginia and now makes 135,000 with benefits such as one month paid vacation, sick days, insurance etc. Where he is at there is an actual shortage of optometrists.

 

[treytrey]

My husband just graduated as an optometrist last year and he moved from Mississippi (he would only make 40,000 a year if he stayed working for someone) to Virginia and now makes 135,000 with benefits such as one month paid vacation, sick days, insurance etc. Where he is at there is an actual shortage of optometrists.

Is he working for somebody else now or has he started his own clinic? Some states are fine for optometrists, but not for long, there is going to be a massive oversupply in the upcoming future. Here in ontario up in canada it's already all gone to crap. The ontario association of optometrists has no backbone at all, opticians refract now. The OMA also is way too strong to allow optometrists here to move towards more medical oriented services (that US optometrists in certain states thoroughly enjoy). Optometrists essentially have no future in canada, new optometrists I should say, the ones who've graduated from 2012 onwards.

 

[treytrey]

This is reality for optometrists nowadays.

 

[catsomgcats]

Treytrey, I really hope you find happiness in life.... honestly.

 

[treytrey]

Treytrey, I really hope you find happiness in life.... honestly.

I'll tell you now that you won't find this 'happiness' in optometry.

 

[catsomgcats]

I'll tell you now that you won't find this 'happiness' in optometry.

You don't know me and what I will find happiness in. But from reading all your posts on this site, I know that you are not happy in optometry, so like I said, I really hope that you one day do find happiness.

 

[catsomgcats]

Questions:
What optometry school did you go to?
What year did you graduate?
How much debt did you come out of school with?
Before you entered optometry school, were you aware of the tuition & the exchange rate?
Are you currently working/living in the Toronto area?

 

[treytrey]

Questions:
What optometry school did you go to?
What year did you graduate?
How much debt did you come out of school with?
Before you entered optometry school, were you aware of the tuition & the exchange rate?
Are you currently working/living in the Toronto area?

I like and enjoy optometry. It just doesn't pay as much as it should, especially when you compare it to pharmacy/dentistry which pay significantly more. Our associations have no backbone, most od's are willing to throw one another to the sharks to make a quick buck.

NECO
2014
180k
Yes
Doesn't matter where I work, the situation is the same all across ontario and canada for that matter.

Believe me, I'm not the only one in this sort of situation. Got a buddy who works 3 part time jobs working 7 days a week trying to make ends meet, he's single, lives in a relatively inexpensive 1 bedroom apartment and drives a crappy car, poor guy lives off of frugal first year uni student tier food (ramen, pasta etc.). The situation is more or less the same for the friends I made that are still down in the states, only one person in my social circle during my time in optometry school has made it 'big', working for an opthalmologist making 100k/year (and no surprise, it was nepotism that got her the position, her uncle is the opthalmologist).

But hey, with all the new schools propping up, I'm sure the situation will worsen drastically in the states. Here in canada there is already an oversupply and saturated market - each year ontario gets ~50 more net optometrists. In 10 years, I expect the salary for optometrists to drop to 50-60k/year. Sad but harsh reality. Your 4 years of schooling comparable to pharm/dental/med will earn you nothing compared to what it's worth and what it costs.

If you don't believe me, I implore you, take the time to look through the 100 or so pages on the optometry forum here, you'll find posts as early as 2000-2002 describing what I'm saying.

 

[Psalm37]

Is he working for somebody else now or has he started his own clinic? Some states are fine for optometrists, but not for long, there is going to be a massive oversupply in the upcoming future. Here in ontario up in canada it's already all gone to crap. The ontario association of optometrists has no backbone at all, opticians refract now. The OMA also is way too strong to allow optometrists here to move towards more medical oriented services (that US optometrists in certain states thoroughly enjoy). Optometrists essentially have no future in canada, new optometrists I should say, the ones who've graduated from 2012 onwards.

I'm sorry to hear how hard things are up there. Will be praying for you!

 

[KHE]

And no, I don't want KHE or anyone else to comment and say how great optometry is or has been for them, they're relics of the past, products of a different time when the markets were much better, fools living in a disillusioned state where they cannot acknowledge that they're the 1% when it comes to the field. Nowadays graduates cannot possibly open up their own clinic, not even within 10 years, it's simply impossible.

PS. I'm actually a great teacher, anyone know the process of applying to become a lecturer at an optometry uni?

Wow. I'm 42 and already I'm a "relic of the past." Tough business.

BTW: I still haven't heard from any of your "several brilliantly minded people" who would like to make a six figure salary in a non commercial environment.

 

[treytrey]

Wow. I'm 42 and already I'm a "relic of the past." Tough business.

BTW: I still haven't heard from any of your "several brilliantly minded people" who would like to make a six figure salary in a non commercial environment.

Maybe because it's in the middle of nowhere, pays barely 100k and provides no extra benefits? The cost of relocating would easily be outweighed by the benefit of an extra 10-20k. The fact that you've been posting that same ad listing for so long proves that it's simply not worth it. In fact, you were offering 70-80k before others advised you that's far too unreasonable for the location.

 

[Stirling]

Lol. Connecticut is not the middle of nowhere compared to most of Canada


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[KHE]

Maybe because it's in the middle of nowhere, pays barely 100k and provides no extra benefits? The cost of relocating would easily be outweighed by the benefit of an extra 10-20k. The fact that you've been posting that same ad listing for so long proves that it's simply not worth it. In fact, you were offering 70-80k before others advised you that's far too unreasonable for the location.

What are you talking about? Where was I ever offering 70-80k before?

Our previous associate was on pace to bring in over 130,000 with benefits.

But you go ahead and keep wallowing in your self-pity. That will get you far.

 

[treytrey]

What are you talking about? Where was I ever offering 70-80k before?

Our previous associate was on pace to bring in over 130,000 with benefits.

But you go ahead and keep wallowing in your self-pity. That will get you far.

It's a fact that you or your co-owner were asking around on forums as to how much to offer, people told you you were being far too greedy considering the location/cost, after which you upped it to 6 figures.

Key word, "bring in", meaning that he only takes home a cut of that pay, which I assume to be 70-80k as I've stated multiple times.

Just agree with me, you know I'm right. You know that you agree with me when I say oversupply of optometrists is a huge problem that is only getting worse and worse, no?

 

[KHE]

It's a fact that you or your co-owner were asking around on forums as to how much to offer, people told you you were being far too greedy considering the location/cost, after which you upped it to 6 figures.

Bzzzzzzt. Try again. My co-owner is 64 and barely knows how to use email. The notion that he would be surfing and posting on online forums is laughable.

Key word, "bring in", meaning that he only takes home a cut of that pay, which I assume to be 70-80k as I've stated multiple times.

Bzzzzzzzt. Try again. That $130,000 was the actual salary PLUS there was approximately an extra $10,000 in benefits, making for a total compensation of approximately $140,000.

Just agree with me, you know I'm right. You know that you agree with me when I say oversupply of optometrists is a huge problem that is only getting worse and worse, no?

I'm not going to call you a loser but you have a loser mentality. While you languish in your own miserable juices, convincing yourself that the sky is falling, there are plenty of people, including plenty of NEW graduates having fruitful and fulfilling careers in this field. You need to change the script that you're telling yourself.

 

[Futureeyedocgirl]

Is anyone actually satisfied with being an optometrist? Do you not feel as though your potential is much greater?

Let's be honest here, optometry is hardly a respected profession anymore, MD's and the general public don't even acknowledge us as doctors, and to be honest, considering what most (95%) of optometrists do for a living (routine brainless eye exams and refractions, both of which scream mediocrity), from an objective point of view I wouldn't consider us as docs either.

At least in NYC, optometry seems to be respected. Lots of satisfied OD's I've met through networking events with MD's. I am still a student but am hopeful about our profession.

 

[Snakedoctor1]

At least in NYC, optometry seems to be respected. Lots of satisfied OD's I've met through networking events with MD's. I am still a student but am hopeful about our profession.

Good ODs are respected. Certainly there will be some who will never respect a non-MD. If that bothers you, there may be some confidence issues left over from high school that need addressing. I'm looking at you, treytrey.

 

[hello07]

Is anyone actually satisfied with being an optometrist? Do you not feel as though your potential is much greater?

Let's be honest here, optometry is hardly a respected profession anymore, MD's and the general public don't even acknowledge us as doctors, and to be honest, considering what most (95%) of optometrists do for a living (routine brainless eye exams and refractions, both of which scream mediocrity), from an objective point of view I wouldn't consider us as docs either.

Most optometrists nowadays string together 2-3 part time jobs for 350-400 per diem, no benefits, no job security. The ones that get lucky and get full time jobs work for very meager pay, 70-80k a year but hey at least they get benefits. Pharmacists I know get paid 120k+. Why? Because they have backbones and pharmacists are able to stand up for themselves, optometrists are happy to bend over and be reduced to refraction monkeys for pennies.

Why is this? Is it because a large percentage of optometrists are females who are happy working part time for substantially lower pay and thus screwing over the males in the profession and overall devaluing the worth of our skills? Certainly seems that way, I have 2 colleagues that echo the same sentiment.

And no, I don't want KHE or anyone else to comment and say how great optometry is or has been for them, they're relics of the past, products of a different time when the markets were much better, fools living in a disillusioned state where they cannot acknowledge that they're the 1% when it comes to the field. Nowadays graduates cannot possibly open up their own clinic, not even within 10 years, it's simply impossible.

PS. I'm actually a great teacher, anyone know the process of applying to become a lecturer at an optometry uni?

This topic has been beaten to death in so many different and variable posts, we all get the picture. Bottom line: MD's are more marketable than ODs will ever be. As an OD if you're not happy because of prestige, money, within yourself, or whatever else, then change it. The opportunity still exists out there to apply to a different profession and become happy. Optometry schools will not close because few of us more or less are not happy. It's a business and they get their business with incoming students. More ODs schools that have opened up is a problem but that's another issue. Salaries in optometry have not kept up with inflation and buying power- the dollar. Tuition is staggering at OD schools compared to the salary optometrists receive once they are out. Again, if you're not happy in your lot of life- DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND CHANGE IT FOR THE BETTER. No one is stopping anyone if you have the credentials to greater your potential. Medical school is open to all who qualify. Optometry is a wonderful and honest profession where we make a difference in people's life and we can live comfortable if you're not in great debt. If you have excellent clinical skills, good communication and trust worthy relationship with OMDs that favor you, than you can make a lot more money per day because they pay very well; but you're going to sweat and work hard per day. Trust me. I know ODs who work for OMDs. They get paid very well. Enough of these posts. In closing, "Happiness is the meaning and purpose of life, the whole aim and end of human existence." Aristotle. Do something that makes you happy and stop complaining. I've felt your frustration and and I know where you are coming from but nothing will fall out of the sky to change your circumstance unless you do it. Peace out.

 

[treytrey]

This topic has been beaten to death in so many different and variable posts, we all get the picture. Bottom line: MD's are more marketable than ODs will ever be. As an OD if you're not happy because of prestige, money, within yourself, or whatever else, then change it. The opportunity still exists out there to apply to a different profession and become happy. Optometry schools will not close because few of us more or less are not happy. It's a business and they get their business with incoming students. More ODs schools that have opened up is a problem but that's another issue. Salaries in optometry have not kept up with inflation and buying power- the dollar. Tuition is staggering at OD schools compared to the salary optometrists receive once they are out. Again, if you're not happy in your lot of life- DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND CHANGE IT FOR THE BETTER. No one is stopping anyone if you have the credentials to greater your potential. Medical school is open to all who qualify. Optometry is a wonderful and honest profession where we make a difference in people's life and we can live comfortable if you're not in great debt. If you have excellent clinical skills, good communication and trust worthy relationship with OMDs that favor you, than you can make a lot more money per day because they pay very well; but you're going to sweat and work hard per day. Trust me. I know ODs who work for OMDs. They get paid very well. Enough of these posts. In closing, "Happiness is the meaning and purpose of life, the whole aim and end of human existence." Aristotle. Do something that makes you happy and stop complaining. I've felt your frustration and and I know where you are coming from but nothing will fall out of the sky to change your circumstance unless you do it. Peace out.

The problem here is people still think optometry is a good field - I too thought the same several years ago when I decided to ignore everything written here, on odwire and on various yahoo groups back then.

Like look at some of the pre-opt users here, they completely decide to ignore employment forecast studies, studies detailing that there are way more optometrists than needed and that the number of optometrists is exponentially increasing. They completely ignore every account of anecdotal evidence specifically from recent graduations (2007-2008 onward), it's not hard to search the web to find out that there are hundreds if not thousands of optometrists in the same position I am (i.e. long work days with minimal compensation). Instead they think that they'll end up like their 50 year old established optometrist.

Nope, reality is you'll be lucky to land a full time job, and if you do it'll make 80k-90k at most without benefits/401k/health insurance etc.

Bottom line is, if you're going to be investing anywhere from 150-250k usd into your optometry degree, then you have very, very poor financial awareness (this includes me in retrospect, I thought that things would work out for me and that I'd get lucky, I was very optimistic, and despite that plus being hard working enough to graduate top 5% of my class, having a large network etc. I'm still messed - funny part is that there are new grads who would do anything for the job I have right now, that's how bad it is).

If you have your parents or family paying for your schooling, scholarships or whatever else that results in the total cost plus living expenses being around 100k then yes, optometry is a great investment.

But the reality is that most students in schools like pco/nova/ico/neco/suny etc. all have debts of 200-250k usd. These schools only care for your tuition, they don't care about anything else.

My ex girlfriend from optometry school and her circle of friends all run around from 1-3 part time jobs, none of them have full time jobs. One of them got conned into a sublease and she doesn't appear to be doing too well.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good profession, clean, relaxing overall but in all honesty, the return on investment and debt to income ratio is terrible. On top of that, the future of the profession is very, very bleak, good luck in todays super saturated markets future grads.

I implore you, go to your state/province optometry site, post a classified listing saying you're looking to hire full time od's. I can honestly guarantee you'll get 50+ applications.

You have to take a long hard look at the benefits and costs overall, when somebody with a comp sci/software engineering degree makes as much if not more than you with better potential, with much less debt, with an arguably better working environment (that cares about their employees), you gotta ask yourself, if drowning yourself in 200-250k debt really worth it?

Had a talk with my nephew last night, he's entering uni and is interested in optometry and medicine, glad to say that he's no longer interested in optometry.

To pre-opts, if you really do go through with optometry and drown yourself in staggering debts of 200-250k + whatever undergrad loans you've got, well, enjoy working for 275-350 a day. You do the math.

This will likely be my last and final post for the most part as it seems my words are falling upon deaf ears, if anyone has any questions whatsoever don't hesitate to pm me.

 

[DirtyDan21]

This will likely be my last and final post for the most part as it seems my words are falling upon deaf ears, if anyone has any questions whatsoever don't hesitate to pm me.

Thank God



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[sam2020]

Although some of your concerns have merit, I think you're too strong with your stance. I work as a tech in a small office- 2 exam lanes, with 1 serving more as a "waiting room". Despite the size, and the office only being open for 3 years, it is on its way to bringing in about a million dollars this year. The group that serves as her mentors, a group who works very closely advising private ODs, recently told us that in their years of working they've never seen an office this young grow so rapidly.

The OD I work for has a great relationship with the MDs she refers to, and many refer patients to us. As a matter a fact, she was one of 10 ODs, in the greater Dallas-Fort Worth area, recently invited to sit in on a conference for the, well-established, surgery center we refer our patients to.

Is the office located in a large city? No. It's 40 miles north of a major city. But she was smart with the location, and by no means is it oversaturated, except for dentistries and quick cares. You have to drive 20-30 minutes anytime you want to do something outside of minimal shopping. However, our city and neighboring cities are growing.

These past 3 months we've brought in well over 80k each month. Not entirely sure how much she pockets, but I assure you it's far more than 80k annually. This isn't to say that every OD can achieve this; this is to say that it's very possible. She isn't old either. She's in her 30s, and as stated previously, the practice is only 3 years old. She budgets regularly and is firm with her position and management. She knows what she wants and she goes after it.

Will everyone be this successful? No. But everyone has the chance if they allow themselves. It's going to be different for everyone. Some will be presented with opportunities that others won't, but those opportunities are out there.

Anyway, good luck to all with your future endeavors.


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[Daylooo]

Sounds like you need to move out of Toronto. Either that or apply for an H1B visa with corporate companies and work in the US. I've talked to national vision, they're offering 130k for a new grad with all the benefits. With bonuses you're likely to hit 140-150k USD. Sure it'll prob suck and you'll be pumping out 3-4 patients per hour but sounds like you need to pay off your debt first. If you're stuck on staying in Toronto, you'll be miserable pretty much for the rest of your life.

Good luck
2016 Grad, New York. So far pretty happy with practicing Optometry.

 

[poojerrr]

The problem here is people still think optometry is a good field - I too thought the same several years ago when I decided to ignore everything written here, on odwire and on various yahoo groups back then.

Like look at some of the pre-opt users here, they completely decide to ignore employment forecast studies, studies detailing that there are way more optometrists than needed and that the number of optometrists is exponentially increasing. They completely ignore every account of anecdotal evidence specifically from recent graduations (2007-2008 onward), it's not hard to search the web to find out that there are hundreds if not thousands of optometrists in the same position I am (i.e. long work days with minimal compensation). Instead they think that they'll end up like their 50 year old established optometrist.

Nope, reality is you'll be lucky to land a full time job, and if you do it'll make 80k-90k at most without benefits/401k/health insurance etc.

Bottom line is, if you're going to be investing anywhere from 150-250k usd into your optometry degree, then you have very, very poor financial awareness (this includes me in retrospect, I thought that things would work out for me and that I'd get lucky, I was very optimistic, and despite that plus being hard working enough to graduate top 5% of my class, having a large network etc. I'm still messed - funny part is that there are new grads who would do anything for the job I have right now, that's how bad it is).

If you have your parents or family paying for your schooling, scholarships or whatever else that results in the total cost plus living expenses being around 100k then yes, optometry is a great investment.

But the reality is that most students in schools like pco/nova/ico/neco/suny etc. all have debts of 200-250k usd. These schools only care for your tuition, they don't care about anything else.

My ex girlfriend from optometry school and her circle of friends all run around from 1-3 part time jobs, none of them have full time jobs. One of them got conned into a sublease and she doesn't appear to be doing too well.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good profession, clean, relaxing overall but in all honesty, the return on investment and debt to income ratio is terrible. On top of that, the future of the profession is very, very bleak, good luck in todays super saturated markets future grads.

I implore you, go to your state/province optometry site, post a classified listing saying you're looking to hire full time od's. I can honestly guarantee you'll get 50+ applications.

You have to take a long hard look at the benefits and costs overall, when somebody with a comp sci/software engineering degree makes as much if not more than you with better potential, with much less debt, with an arguably better working environment (that cares about their employees), you gotta ask yourself, if drowning yourself in 200-250k debt really worth it?

Had a talk with my nephew last night, he's entering uni and is interested in optometry and medicine, glad to say that he's no longer interested in optometry.

To pre-opts, if you really do go through with optometry and drown yourself in staggering debts of 200-250k + whatever undergrad loans you've got, well, enjoy working for 275-350 a day. You do the math.

This will likely be my last and final post for the most part as it seems my words are falling upon deaf ears, if anyone has any questions whatsoever don't hesitate to pm me.

If from the beginning your posts sounded like this I highly doubt it would have fallen on deaf ears. I'd like to think you had good intentions for all this but the way you executed it wasn't the best way to go about it.

Though I plan to still pursue the career- I appreciate your outlook and insight.

Best of luck Trey.